Historical Events Database - History

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

OK, having checked the database this morning, I only see 4 entries. There's no entry under Society --> Expiation. Do you want me to enter that as a 5th entry, as well? If yes,what would the Keywords be? I was thinking of Ritual Human Sacrifice, but there's no indication in that item at all to make that conclusion with any confidence.

Don't enter what is not there. Just "Day of Prayer".

Remember that keywords are a means of further classification. Except in particular cases, you don't put the name of the city there since it is already in the "location" field.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

I missed the editing time window for the post above. Another thing that is difficult for me to figure out for the possible Expiation entry is where is the location - Rome, Reate, all surround areas? Even if this will not end up as an entry, it'll help me, and maybe others, in figuring these things out later. Also this particular case may be because it's being taken from the Atmospheric Signs and Disasters thread where Laura extracted from the sources and posted these items. So I don't know how the text was originally, i.e. continuous or condensed from several paragraphs, etc.

But, in any case, this can potentially be illustrative of how to approach the breaking down of items, figuring out location, etc.

In ALL of those entries from Julius Obsequens, derived from Livy, the place was Rome. There is a long introductory text at the beginning of that thread about Roman portents and prodigies that explains them and how they were reported and responded to. As far as the Romans were concerned, only things affecting Rome counted and that had to be determined by the senate and they consulted with the augurs and haruspices about the meaning of the prodigy/portent, and were told what the expiation must be. And since, as far as they were concerned, the only IMPORTANT place in the world, was Rome, that's where it happened.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

I finished Theophanes and Agapius. I have more than 100 entries, so if I do it alone it will take a lot of time.

So, if someone can help me, it would be cool.

Periods covered: 400 – 468 AD and 559 – 813 AD.

I included the events from Chronicle of the Fall not already included in the database, i.e. 559-610 AD.

See attached.

Let's not go so much for speed as for quality of entries to make sure that each one is properly considered and the way is found to give it the proper weight.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Additionally now, with the editing history included on the text entry page, you can check back on your own entries to see how they have been fixed. This will help accomplish one of the important elements of this project: learning. If you network here on the thread, check your entries to see how they've been adjusted, or fix them yourself, it will begin to change the way you look at texts, particularly historical ones. It's kind of like using your brain as a precision tool and making it very, very sharp. The only OTHER way to get there would be to read hundreds, if not thousands, of books on history, histories of histories, text criticism, paleography, archaeology, etc etc. But I think I can teach all of you by a series of examples, by the DOing of it, and this incisive way of looking at things can carry over into other areas of your life.

Remember what I said: it's like the biggest whodunnit of all time.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Historical Events Database

OK, having checked the database this morning, I only see 4 entries. There's no entry under Society --> Expiation. Do you want me to enter that as a 5th entry, as well? If yes,what would the Keywords be? I was thinking of Ritual Human Sacrifice, but there's no indication in that item at all to make that conclusion with any confidence.

Don't enter what is not there. Just "Day of Prayer".

Remember that keywords are a means of further classification. Except in particular cases, you don't put the name of the city there since it is already in the "location" field.

OK, I'll enter it with those keywords and Rome as location.

I missed the editing time window for the post above. Another thing that is difficult for me to figure out for the possible Expiation entry is where is the location - Rome, Reate, all surround areas? Even if this will not end up as an entry, it'll help me, and maybe others, in figuring these things out later. Also this particular case may be because it's being taken from the Atmospheric Signs and Disasters thread where Laura extracted from the sources and posted these items. So I don't know how the text was originally, i.e. continuous or condensed from several paragraphs, etc.

But, in any case, this can potentially be illustrative of how to approach the breaking down of items, figuring out location, etc.

In ALL of those entries from Julius Obsequens, derived from Livy, the place was Rome. There is a long introductory text at the beginning of that thread about Roman portents and prodigies that explains them and how they were reported and responded to. As far as the Romans were concerned, only things affecting Rome counted and that had to be determined by the senate and they consulted with the augurs and haruspices about the meaning of the prodigy/portent, and were told what the expiation must be. And since, as far as they were concerned, the only IMPORTANT place in the world, was Rome, that's where it happened.

OK. Got it. I'm going to reread that intro.

The next item in that list I just entered about 20 minutes ago as two entries: 1.) Category: -> Environment; Type: -> Atmospheric Prodigies; Keywords: Daytime Darkness Sets In 2.) Category: -> Environment; Type: -> Fall of Unusual Objects; Keywords: Shower of Stones.

I made the mistake of making the location Aventine for the second entry Fall of Unusual Objects. From what you said above, I'll change it to Rome, right? Here's the quote from the thread:

2. Consulship of Marcus Messala and Gaius Livius BC 188
Between the third and fourth hour of the day, darkness set in. On the Aventine, showers of stones were atoned fo[r] by a nin[e]-day observance. There was a successful campaign in Spain. (XXXVIII xxxvi. 4.)

I added an "r' and an "e" (where I put them in brackets above) for the entry.

I didn't make an entry for Expiation (in which case I'd put as keywords: "Nine-Day Observance") - should I enter that? Nor did I enter the successful campaign in Spain under Society -> War, as I didn't think it's anything too significant, just a run-of-the-mill military campaign, it sound like.


Also, the next item has no date, it just says "Consulship of Spurius Postumius Albinus and Quintus Marcius Philippus" but must be in the 180's BC as the next item is for 183 BC. Was there no date given, or is that an unintentional omission?

Here's the item:

3. Consulship of Spurius Postumius Albinus and Quintus Marcius Philippus
A nine-day observance was held because there had been a shower of stones in Picenum, and because lightning bolts, appearing in many places, had scorched the clothes of many persons by a slight blast of heat. The temple of Jupiter on the Capitol was struck by lightning. In Umbria, a hermaphrodite about twelve years old was discovered, and by order of the soothsayers was put to death. Gauls who had crossed the Alps into Italy were expelled without a battle. (XXXIX xxii. 3-5)

 

[Mikey]

Re: Historical Events Database

Added new feature: Filtering/Search. Usage is straightforward so I think you'll figure it out.

 

[Mikey]

Re: Historical Events Database

For what its worth, I am including the excel file with the compilation from GNP wesbite.

Maybe we should enter the data from this Excel manually, i.e. "quality over quantity"?

 

[Zadius Sky]

Re: Historical Events Database

Added new feature: Filtering/Search. Usage is straightforward so I think you'll figure it out.

Very useful! I typed in a few things to try it out. I noticed the misspellings (i.e., lightning vs. lightening) won't show up in the filter.

Remember that keywords are a means of further classification. Except in particular cases, you don't put the name of the city there since it is already in the "location" field.

Thanks for that - I went back to remove all the cities in the keyword (in my entries) when they're already mentioned in the location field.

 

[Zadius Sky]

Re: Historical Events Database

5. D. C. Yeomans. Comets. Wiley, 1992 : This guys is from NASA's JPL and couldn't find the book on the net

If you look at the database, you'll see Laura used this source extensively.

For what its worth, I am including the excel file with the compilation from GNP wesbite.

Maybe we should enter the data from this Excel manually, i.e. "quality over quantity"?

Yeah. There's over 2,000 entries in the excel. I recognized some of them were already entered by different or same source(s). I'll be checking out The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle entries in seek10's excel against my reading (with sources cited properly) but the archive.org is down currently, so I'll wait until tonight to check them over.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

The next item in that list I just entered about 20 minutes ago as two entries: 1.) Category: -> Environment; Type: -> Atmospheric Prodigies; Keywords: Daytime Darkness Sets In 2.) Category: -> Environment; Type: -> Fall of Unusual Objects; Keywords: Shower of Stones.

Daytime darkness accompanied by a shower of stones would suggest Dust Veil type of event NOT an atmospheric prodigy. I made that category for things like unusual rainbows, noctilucent clouds, lightning out of a clear sky, visual images of 2, 3 4, however many suns that are caused by optical phenomena (ice in the upper atmosphere), rings around the sun or moon, THAT sort of thing. Go back up to my previous post where I define a PRODIGY. Darkening is not necessarily a prodigy. It can also be caused by an eclipse, but we don't think that here.

THINK! Look at your evidence. What is the writer hiding or revealing or revealing by trying to hide, or what may have been lost in translation, interpretation by later copyists, critics, historians, etc. QUERY YOUR TEXT INTELLIGENTLY WITH ALL WE KNOW ABOUT COMETS, CURRENT EVENTS THAT ARE SIMILAR, ELECTRIC UNIVERSE, etc etc!

I made the mistake of making the location Aventine for the second entry Fall of Unusual Objects. From what you said above, I'll change it to Rome, right? Here's the quote from the thread:

2. Consulship of Marcus Messala and Gaius Livius BC 188
Between the third and fourth hour of the day, darkness set in. On the Aventine, showers of stones were atoned fo[r] by a nin[e]-day observance. There was a successful campaign in Spain. (XXXVIII xxxvi. 4.)

I added an "r' and an "e" (where I put them in brackets above) for the entry.

Yes, correct my obvious typos.

The Aventine is just a neighborhood in Rome: one of the seven hills.

If you don't know what something like that is, search google. You have nothing to lose but ignorance, and everything to gain as in loading yourself with knowledge about many things!

I didn't make an entry for Expiation (in which case I'd put as keywords: "Nine-Day Observance") - should I enter that? Nor did I enter the successful campaign in Spain under Society -> War, as I didn't think it's anything too significant, just a run-of-the-mill military campaign, it sound like.

In this case, those are correct decisions. Every expiation isn't important. And the comment about the successful campaign is just fluff added by Livy to justify Rome.

Also, the next item has no date, it just says "Consulship of Spurius Postumius Albinus and Quintus Marcius Philippus" but must be in the 180's BC as the next item is for 183 BC. Was there no date given, or is that an unintentional omission?

I just missed it typing fast. Looking it up now. Can't find my copy in English, so Pierre is querying his French edition. Please hold....

Here's the item:

3. Consulship of Spurius Postumius Albinus and Quintus Marcius Philippus
A nine-day observance was held because there had been a

1) shower of stones in Picenum, and because

2) lightning bolts, appearing in many places, had scorched the clothes of many persons by a slight blast of heat.

3) The temple of Jupiter on the Capitol was struck by lightning.

4)In Umbria, a hermaphrodite about twelve years old was discovered, and by order of the soothsayers was put to death.

5)Gauls who had crossed the Alps into Italy were expelled without a battle. (XXXIX xxii. 3-5)

This event is interesting "slight blast of heat"??? Since when does lightning only "scorch" clothing? Very suspicious. Especially when appearing with "shower of stones". Gauls crossing the alps at this point might indicate something more going on at that time than meets the eye! Altogether, a very curious text that tries to hide something.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Pierre is still searching his text.

Meanwhile, I just looked on google:
Spurius Postumius Albinus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spurius_Postumius_Albinus

consul in 334 BC - so this is not our guy... too early. Problem is, Romans kept using the same names over and over again. So, there must have been a descendant with the same name though he is not listed on google.


Quintus Marcius Philippus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintus_Marcius_Philippus
was a Roman consul in 186 BC and 169 BC.

This is our guy, obviously. 186 BC is our date, I reckon.

Used correctly, google can be your friend!

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Historical Events Database

Doh, I missed a couple of obvious things. Ironically I DID make the daytime darkness setting Dust Veil as Type first, and then went back like a minute later and changed it to Atmospheric Prodigy. For some reason I was under the impression Aventine was a settlement outside of the city - probably got it mixed up with another place name. I'll work on my interpretation of the text and check things I'm not sure about.

I'll fix the previous entry and enter the next item for 186 BC. Thanks for the input.

 

[seek10]

Re: Historical Events Database

For what its worth, I am including the excel file with the compilation from GNP wesbite.

Maybe we should enter the data from this Excel manually, i.e. "quality over quantity"?

Any way, we have to check the source, It is better to enter manually.

I read through the this short document Laura attached . "A Catalogue Of Greco-Roman Comets From 500 B.C. To A.D. 400.pdf". Authors carefully analysed for accuracy. I will start updating database if there is no entry.

I also started looking at Laura's other attachment. "Earthquakes in Syria.pdf" . I will work on this one next.

 

[seek10]

Re: Historical Events Database

5. D. C. Yeomans. Comets. Wiley, 1992 : This guys is from NASA's JPL and couldn't find the book on the net

If you look at the database, you'll see Laura used this source extensively.

Thank you for mentioning. Ordered the book.

 

[Eboard10]

Re: Historical Events Database

Doh, I missed a couple of obvious things. Ironically I DID make the daytime darkness setting Dust Veil as Type first, and then went back like a minute later and changed it to Atmospheric Prodigy. For some reason I was under the impression Aventine was a settlement outside of the city - probably got it mixed up with another place name. I'll work on my interpretation of the text and check things I'm not sure about.

I'll fix the previous entry and enter the next item for 186 BC. Thanks for the input.

Hi seekintruth, I was about to start entering the quotes from Laura's post on Julius Obsequens but it seems you're working on it? Just to make sure as I don't want to end up entering the same data twice.

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,32532.msg444409.html#msg444409

ADDED: If so, I'll gladly help with making other entries as I have the whole weekend free.