Historical Events Database - History

[Mike]

Re: Historical Events Database

So, bits and pieces of this and that but nothing spectacular. But, since I pulled on this thread thought I would record it here in case anything later turns out to be useful.

What I HOPED to find was something that would reference the Sardinian legend about the tsunami.

Doesn't seem like much is out there about the tsunami legend for Sardinia. Some have theorized Sardinia as the location of Atlantis and equate the legend of tsunami to what Plato said about Atlantis. Found this little blurb while searching though:

_http://www.chasingtheunexpected.com/2011/09/sardinia-land-of-mystery-part-2-atlantis-lost-civilization/

All the researchers agreed with Sergio Frau‘s thesis of placing Hercules Pillars on the Strait of Sicily as ancient Greek writers had claimed before Eratosthenes, but the theory that identifies Atlantis with Sardinia met the skepticism of Louis Godart, while the geologists of the CNR are on Frau’s side, confirming the tsunami that four centuries before Christ devastated the southern part of the island, bringing to an end the nuragic civilization and maybe the city of Atlantis.

Also found a book that might be of interest, but it is pricey:

Tsunamis in the Mediterranean Sea 2000 B.C.-2000 A.D.

http://www.amazon.com/Tsunamis-Mediterranean-B-C--2000-Advances-Technological/dp/0792365488/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393193726&sr=8-1&keywords=Tsunamis+in+the+Mediterranean+Sea+2000+B.C.-2000+A.D.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

It sounded like that fireball got very close and everything was shaking and there's lightning (plasma event?) and all that happening very fast. It could have been impacted further away somewhere?

Divide the events up and number them and THINK about them.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

So, bits and pieces of this and that but nothing spectacular. But, since I pulled on this thread thought I would record it here in case anything later turns out to be useful.

What I HOPED to find was something that would reference the Sardinian legend about the tsunami.

Doesn't seem like much is out there about the tsunami legend for Sardinia. Some have theorized Sardinia as the location of Atlantis and equate the legend of tsunami to what Plato said about Atlantis. Found this little blurb while searching though:

_http://www.chasingtheunexpected.com/2011/09/sardinia-land-of-mystery-part-2-atlantis-lost-civilization/

All the researchers agreed with Sergio Frau‘s thesis of placing Hercules Pillars on the Strait of Sicily as ancient Greek writers had claimed before Eratosthenes, but the theory that identifies Atlantis with Sardinia met the skepticism of Louis Godart, while the geologists of the CNR are on Frau’s side, confirming the tsunami that four centuries before Christ devastated the southern part of the island, bringing to an end the nuragic civilization and maybe the city of Atlantis.

Well, that gets us in range. 400 BC I guess. But of course, that's a WAAAAY long time ago for people there to remember it. Much more likely that it was the impact tsunami that buried Rome in 9 meters of mud and silt.

Also found a book that might be of interest, but it is pricey:

Tsunamis in the Mediterranean Sea 2000 B.C.-2000 A.D.

http://www.amazon.com/Tsunamis-Mediterranean-B-C--2000-Advances-Technological/dp/0792365488/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393193726&sr=8-1&keywords=Tsunamis+in+the+Mediterranean+Sea+2000+B.C.-2000+A.D.

I think I've got some papers on that topic. I'll check tomorrow when I'm fresh.

 

[Altair]

Re: Historical Events Database

May I have access to the database too? :)

Many thanks

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

zadig, entry 590, says comet keywords, which just repeats the subcategory. Can we get something in key words more descriptive? Since I've been going through and fixing up keywords (ya'll can take a look and get an idea of how to look at a text and SEE keywords), I looked at the text in 590 to see what could be extracted and it says only:

On that night there appeared in the heavens a star which is called a comet.


Can we have a bit more of the excerpt around that? On WHAT night? What else happened?

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

zadig, in entry 587, the year is given as 600. The text says:

The fifth year of the reign of Theodoric, we saw in the West the same phenomena that had appeared the previous year : globes of fire traversing the sky, and a lot of spears of fire

WHICH Theodoric was this? If it was Theodoric the Great, there is a problem with the date:

Theoderic the Great (454 – August 30, 526), often referred to as Theodoric, was king of the Germanic Ostrogoths (475–526),[1] ruler of Italy (493–526), regent of the Visigoths (511–526), and a viceroy of the Eastern Roman Empire.

Also, I expect there should be an additional entry for the previous year as stated in the text. Note also how I adjusted the keywords.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Zadig, I've deleted a handful of your entries concerning battles of Charlemagne and coronation of Louis, etc. Not interested in those at all. Only want famous battles or wars that COULD, possibly, be misrepresented. Most of what is written about battles in those times, after the fall, was totally made up. There might have been a small raid or tribal battle, but it is clear that nothing like what was written about it later was remotely true. IF the battle is associated with an unusual event, prodigy, comet, or whatever, make that unusual even the entry, and include something like "Meteor shower, battle between saxons and lombards" or something like that.

Ya'll remember, keywords are exactly that: they are not long descriptions of things. You should find the most ACUTE and pertinent words to enter there, words that encapsulate as briefly as possible, the essence of the event for the convenience of a future searcher. Try to think about "what words would I be looking for to find things in this database in the future when I've mostly forgotten details of each entry?" What descriptive words stand out in the text?

I've been fixing keywords this morning so ya'll can take a look at your own entries to see what I mean.

Again, do NOT repeat words that are already entered in other fields in the keywords if you can avoid it. Use the keywords for ADDITIONAL descriptive terms. And include enough of the original text, if not ALL of it, to make it easy for a future reader to completely orient themselves in the situation at hand.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Zadig, in entry 578, the text says:

The third year of the reign of Childebert in Burgundy, many phenomena appeared in the sky, a comet was seen.

I think a second entry for that "many phenomena" appeared in the sky remark. I've created a special category for this: "Unspecified Prodigies" under "Celestial."

Remember, quality of entries over quantity! We are not in a race to fill the database in a hurry, we want to work with our texts in a careful and thorough way so that we get the most out of our efforts when the time comes to begin creating graphs. Remember GIGO.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Zadig, entries 568 and 564 appear to be the same event though they are from different sources and give different dates.

John of Nikiû gives 583 and Agapius gives 588. I think we should take the date of the earliest author, and add the text of the second to the same event with a note that he gives a different date for what is obviously the same event.

John of Nikiû was an Egyptian Coptic bishop of Nikiû (Pashati) in the Nile Delta and general administrator of the monasteries of Upper Egypt in 696.

Agapius son of Constantine (arabised as Mahbūb ibn-Qūṣṭānṭīn) (d.941-2 AD) was a 10th-century Arabic Christian writer, best known for his lengthy Kitab al-'Unwan (Book of headings or History). He was the Melkite bishop of Manbij (Mabbug, Hierapolis Bambyce).

This is an example of WHY you must keep your events in your head so that when you come across the next one that is similar, you stop, take a deeper look and understand the nature of the text and what kind of flim-flam has taken place.

WITHOUT this kind of scrutiny, you cannot SEE what is really going on. Without understanding the nature of the texts, what has been done with them and how, it will only mess up the database so that we can derive nothing useful from it.

TEXTUAL ANALYSIS is part of this project, it is not just rushing to get as many entries in as possible. If those entries are not handled carefully, we will do not better than anyone who has gone before us.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Zadig, entry 563 was clearly not a "plasma event". It was a conflagration and it MIGHT have been started by a falling fireball, but the significant thing about it was the "squalls of wind" which I have put in the keywords.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Zadig, in entry 562 the text says:

And likewise in the reign of the emperor Maurice there came a flood in the night on the east of the city of Esna, which is the capital of Rif, while the inhabitants were asleep, and it destroyed many houses together with their inhabitants, and it carried them off and submerged them in the river. And great havoc was wrought in the city and in (its) inhabitants. And likewise in the city of Tarsus in Cilicia the same befell; for the river, named Euphrates, which flows near it, rose at midnight and submerged one division of the city, named Antinoaea, and destroyed many buildings. And a stone tablet was found in the river with the inscription: 'This river will destroy many of the buildings of the city.'

It would be helpful if you could take the time and trouble to find out a bit more about the location so as to enter it in the database. Google is your friend.

As it happens, Esna is in Egypt:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esna

Esna (Egyptian Arabic: إسنا IPA: [ˈʔesnæ]), known to the ancient Egyptians as Egyptian: Iunyt or Ta-senet; Greek: Λατόπολις (Latopolis or Letopolis)[1] or πόλις Λάτων (Polis Laton)[2] or Λάττων (Latton);[3][4] Latin: Lato, is a city in Egypt. It is located on the west bank of the River Nile, some 55 km south of Luxor. The town was formerly part of the modern Qena Governorate, but as of 9/12/2009, has been incorporated into the new Luxor Governorate.

So, knowing that two floods came in the middle of the night at two relatively distant locations, that is, Egypt and Cilicia, should have excited your curiosity about this strange coincidence. There is no mention of any prolonged rain, so what the heck is going on?

Well, obviously, there should be TWO entries for this text, one for the flood in Esna, Egypt, and a second one for the flood in Tarsus, Cilicia.

But what was the phenomenon behind this? Tidal forces of a cosmic body? Geology? Was there an unmentioned earthquake, landslide or rain elsewhere? Perhaps the answer is in another text and we can't speculate as yet.

If we don't get the proper number/weight of entries for events, the database will not do what it is supposed to do. And if others have to come in after you and sort out everything you've done, then it is a lot more work.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Entries 546 and 547 should probably have a third entry. Here's the text:

In year 8 of his reign, a sign of fire was seen in the sky, which began in the north and remained in all the sky. A darkness occurred which wrapped the whole world for nine hours of the day until the night, so that nothing could be seen; and it fell from the air like wisps of straw and ash

The "sign of fire" in the sky suggests an impact or Tunguska like event.

The ash is obviously under "dust veil". That's okay.

BUT, we need an "unusual fire" event to wrap it up since it is obvious that the "fire in the sky" ignited a fire on the earth which produced the dust veil and ashes.

Also, it would be nice to have the name of the emperor/king included in all of these things. And again, the reason it is so important to have complete source material is so that I can find the darn passage if I see that corrections need to be made or further exploration is warranted. Zadig, can you beef up your citations, please?

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Also, again, let's standardize the names of emperors. Justinus should be Justin II. If necessary, check google for years of reign to make sure you have the correct name and number.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Entry 545:

In year 8 of Justinus {Justin II}during the month of Haziran (June), a violent earthquake hit the entire universe. The whole earth shook like the leaves of trees shaken by the wind. There was no one single place without ruins.

Well, that obviously matches with entries 546 and 547 and rather confirms the idea of an impact event. However, how the heck can we give this the weight it needs on so little information? "A violent earthquake hit the entire universe"!!!

Well, hopefully, other sources will cover this. But let's keep our eye open for anything related to this around this time that may have the wrong dates attached.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Text covered in entries 538, 539, 540:

In the 1st year of Justinus (Justin II – also called Justinian III by Syrian writers to show he’s not Justinian II), which is the year [566],

1) in the month of ta-mouz [July], we saw a great light in the northern region. It was at the top of the sky, like a terrible flame. - {Blazing comet?}

2) The same year, a sort of 'spear of fire appeared in the sky for a long time. […] {Mushroom cloud from impact event? Or blazing comet tail? What does "a long time" mean?}

3) The same light again appeared in the sky during the months of Elul and Tesri [September-October], it seemed even more terribly inflamed. {Again, impact event evidence or blazing comet spiraling around the planet before impact?}

4) On the 5th of Tesri [October], occurred an earthquake that shook the ground like trees. {Was this the actual impact? Tunguska-like?}

5) It happened again a few days later. {Another impact? Or an aftershock?}

6) Still during the month of Tesri, blazing charcoals, like lit up by a fire in the sky, fell from it, they looked like burning reeds debris or burning paper. They were about three fingers long so that there were collected in baskets and kept inside houses.[…] {Rain of burning meteorites/comet fragments?}


The Emperor, who was on his way to the Spa, left the city because of the earthquake and entered the church of the Mother of God called church of {B}lachernes; rogations were made in all the churches, even the children in schools, the free women: all wept bitterly and prayed fervently. When the procession reached the great church at dawn on Friday,

7) they suddenly saw at the ninth hour, a large cross in the sky, looking like a luminous cloud in which there was a very bright light. {A mushroom cloud from an impact or another comet?}

Obviously, this text deserves more thought and attention.