Historical Events Database - History

[Zadius Sky]

Re: Historical Events Database

What year did you put these in? I don't see any entries for AD 501 and couldn't find it in close years to it. I thought we are using the earliest version of the event(s) first and use "other notes" for later version if available. Michael the Syrian was later, I think.

It is like a 15 entries event first mentioned in 498 by Michael the Syrian. Reading the entries from 500, 501 and up until 503, I realized it was the same events for that region. So I added a 5 year duration/uncertainty to include all these things. It is the "Broom Star, Spear" comet. It came along with pretty much everything.

Ah, okay. I found my sources in your entries. Michael the Syrian was later than Zachariah of Mitylene, which is why I asked because I thought we're using the earlier versions in the main source, later or contemporary sources in the other notes. Since the date(s) is uncertain, anyway.

I'm going back over all of my sources and import them in an excel, so I can refer back to them (since and in case if they were deleted) later and cross-reference the dates and research them a bit.

Ya'll remember, keywords are exactly that: they are not long descriptions of things. You should find the most ACUTE and pertinent words to enter there, words that encapsulate as briefly as possible, the essence of the event for the convenience of a future searcher. Try to think about "what words would I be looking for to find things in this database in the future when I've mostly forgotten details of each entry?" What descriptive words stand out in the text?

I've been fixing keywords this morning so ya'll can take a look at your own entries to see what I mean.

Again, do NOT repeat words that are already entered in other fields in the keywords if you can avoid it. Use the keywords for ADDITIONAL descriptive terms. And include enough of the original text, if not ALL of it, to make it easy for a future reader to completely orient themselves in the situation at hand.

Thanks - I'll be going back over my entries and update the keywords. The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle was filled with one-liners, so I'm checking other sources to check the dates and input them with more details.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database


Also, when I wrote: "And include enough of the original text, if not ALL of it, to make it easy for a future reader to completely orient themselves in the situation at hand." I meant to enter the text in the quote box in the data entry form, NOT in keywords. Just in case anyone might misunderstand that.

Keep in mind that this entire project is an exercise in deeply critical thinking and application of knowledge. It really is important to have historical knowledge, some knowledge of text criticism, historiography (which I have condensed for you in this thread and others), etc. If you don't have all of that, just go slow and careful and ask questions. I'd rather answer questions than have to go in and fix dozens of entries! Plus, when a text is discussed, it helps others to learn as well.

I'm almost done with Paul the Deacon's History of the Langobards. He's supposed to have had access to Gregory of Tours, but either he was really dumb, or the text he had access to was different from the one those that are extant today. Or, better solution, both texts were significantly modified much later only the modifications were not coordinated. And that's making a big assumption that both of them were not completely faked. I'm even wondering now if the mention of GoT in Bede was not a later interpolation.

Paul has doublets and triplets all over the place. He reworks stories that are in older texts and makes them part of his "history" when they clearly are not. Even though he obviously is using older texts, grabbing this from one place, that from another, as a whole, it appears to be a pack of lies! Now and then there is a slip when what was supposed to be a great army is described as a small band of raiders. That's what I think happened. Everything was so destroyed, so decimated, that accounts WERE written of the events and the sad state of things, the marauding bands of survivors and how they entrenched themselves and gradually took over, and later copyists and editors turned this sort of thing into a "history of barbarian peoples and great wars" and that sort of thing. It was nothing of the kind.

The only thing that seems to be probably valid and true is the consistent use of "acts of god," i.e. the environmental and cosmic phenomena that was scaring the heck out of everybody. But even some of those were transformed into great battles the same way the great victories of Caesar were transformed into the "miracles of Jesus."

Speaking of which, funny thing I read last night: Paul writes:

About these times the wife of the king of the Persians, Cesara by name, on account of her love of the Christian faith, departed out of Persia in private dress with a few of her faithful followers, and came to Constantinople.

One wonders if she was named Cesara by a "Christian" mother who brought her up in the worship of Caesar???

 

[Gaby]

Re: Historical Events Database

Ya'll remember, keywords are exactly that: they are not long descriptions of things. You should find the most ACUTE and pertinent words to enter there, words that encapsulate as briefly as possible, the essence of the event for the convenience of a future searcher. Try to think about "what words would I be looking for to find things in this database in the future when I've mostly forgotten details of each entry?" What descriptive words stand out in the text?

I've been fixing keywords this morning so ya'll can take a look at your own entries to see what I mean.

Again, do NOT repeat words that are already entered in other fields in the keywords if you can avoid it. Use the keywords for ADDITIONAL descriptive terms. And include enough of the original text, if not ALL of it, to make it easy for a future reader to completely orient themselves in the situation at hand.

Thanks - I'll be going back over my entries and update the keywords. The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle was filled with one-liners, so I'm checking other sources to check the dates and input them with more details.

I'll do that today too. I know that the first entries I made are incomplete after reviewing the "498-503" Broomstar event. Also, the keywords were not ideal. So I'll review that. This is actually real fun :D I'm starting to get oriented with the places and people. It is really like a Historical SOTT!

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

I'll do that today too. I know that the first entries I made are incomplete after reviewing the "498-503" Broomstar event. Also, the keywords were not ideal. So I'll review that. This is actually real fun :D I'm starting to get oriented with the places and people. It is really like a Historical SOTT!

It's a real initiation, that's for sure!

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Problem with entry 533: It's listed under "severe storm" and the date is 568:

Text says (from Malalas):

In the month of November a severe drought occurred in Constantinople so that many fights occurred at the cisterns. North winds blew frequently. From the beginning of the month of August the south wind had not blown and the third convoy of ships did not arrive… In that month news of victory came from the patrician Narses at Rome, to the effect that he had captured some strong cities of the Goths, that is, Verona and Breschia. He sent the keys of these cities with the spoils.

Then, additional notes:

Theophanes the confessor for the year 561, op.cit, p.361 :

"The wind blew up a cloud of dust, which drifted over the barbarians. They, thinking that
an enormous force was there, fled and went to the district of St Stratonikos at Dekaton. "

It's a good catch to note that something was strange about the winds, but the chief problem appears to be that the normal south winds, on which shipping depended, did not come and this was the reason for a famine, I think, though the text should be a bit more complete here.

Note that the Barbarians in the second text were not the ones at Rome mentioned in the first text. St. Stratonikos is in Bulgaria (google is your friend).

So, there was a general phenomenon of the normal weather being messed up (and I've made a new sub-category of "Weather anomalies" for things we can't otherwise place), but these should be separate entries.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

The events described by John Malalas in entry 534 for the year 563, appear to be the same as those of the year 562.

Malalas:

In August there was a shortage of water, so that the public baths were closed and murders occurred at the fountains.

Entry 531

In the month of November a severe drought occurred in Constantinople so that many fights occurred at the cisterns. North winds blew frequently. From the beginning of the month of August the south wind had not blown and the third convoy of ships did not arrive… In that month news of victory came from the patrician Narses at Rome, to the effect that he had captured some strong cities of the Goths, that is, Verona and Breschia. He sent the keys of these cities with the spoils.

August is mentioned in both texts though you can see how it has been distorted. I would say that they are the same events, though it is a multi-entry event.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Entry 530:

In December there was

1) a large fire in Julian’s harbor, and may houses were burned as well as churches from the edge of the harbor as far as the quarter of Probus.

There was also a big plague at

2) Anazarbos and elsewhere in Cilicia and in

3) Antioch the Great, as well as

4) earthquakes. {Unspecified locations should be put in keywords for the earthquake entry.}

 

[Zadius Sky]

Re: Historical Events Database

I just noticed these two entries (358 & 397) by Laura and Shijing respectively:

Entry 358:

236 AD, November 30, China. A bushy star comet appeared near Polaris measuring about 4 degrees. On December 15 it became a broom star comet in Hercules.

Pankenier, Xu, & Jiang (2008): "(a) 4th year of the Qinglong reign period of Emperor Ming of the Wei Dynasty, 10th month, day jiashen [21]; a star became fuzzy in Dachen; on day yiyou [22], it became fuzzy again in the east. (b) 4th year of the Qinglong reign period of Emperor Ming of the Wei Dynasty, 10th month, day jiashen [21]; a star 3 chi long became fuzzy in Dachen; on day yiyou [22], it became fuzzy again in the east."

Source: Comets: A Chronological History (1991) - derived from Ho 126.

Entry 397:

"4th year of the Qinglong reign period of Emperor Ming of the Wei Dynasty, 11th month, day jihai [36]; a broom star appeared, trespassing on the asterisms Huanzhe and Tianji." (NB: There was no day jihai [36] in the 11th month.)

Source: Archaeoastronomy in East Asia (2008) - derived from Ho 126.


One appears to be a duplicate.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Entry 490:

Do not list the translator as the author. List the author if known. In this case, it is. And then, put in the Floruit dates.

Notice the additional note that says:

"729. Several writers speak of 2 comets visible for 14 days in the month of January, the one after sunset and the other before sunrise - (Bede, Historia Ecclesiastica, v.; Monachus Herveldensis, Chronicon Historiae Germaniae.).

This means that there is an older source for this event, i.e. Bede.

 

[Zadius Sky]

Re: Historical Events Database

Entry 490:

Do not list the translator as the author.

Okay. I just removed the trans. from that field.

Notice the additional note that says:

"729. Several writers speak of 2 comets visible for 14 days in the month of January, the one after sunset and the other before sunrise - (Bede, Historia Ecclesiastica, v.; Monachus Herveldensis, Chronicon Historiae Germaniae.).

This means that there is an older source for this event, i.e. Bede.

I found that passage by Bede and replaced that entry with the older source:

English text:

In the year of our Lord's incarnation the seven hundred and twenty-ninth, two comets appeared about the sun, to the great terror of the beholders. One of them went before the sun in the morning at his rising, the other followed him when he set in the evening, as it were presaging dire disaster to both east and west; or at least one of the day, the other of the night, should arise that went before Him, in order that mortals were threatened with calamities at both times. They carried a torch of fire towards the north, as it were, to set the world. They appeared in January, and continued nearly a fortnight.

From: Bede's Ecclesiastical History of England, A Revised Translation by A.M. Sellar. George Bell and Sons; London, 1907. Book V, Chap. XXIII. Page 378.

Latin Text:

Anno Dominicas incarnationis septingentesimo vicesimo nono, apparuerunt cometae duae circa solem, multum intuentibus terrorem incutientes. Una quippe solem praecedebat mane orientem ; altera vespere sequebatur occidentem, quasi orienti simul et occidenti dirse cladis prsesagae ; vel certe una diei, altera noctis, praecurrebat exortura, ut utroque tempore mala mortalibus imminere signarent. Portabant autem facem ignis contra aquilonem, quasi ad accendendum adclinem; apparebantque mense Januario, et duabus ferme septimanis permanebant.

From: Venerabilis Bedae, Historia Ecclesiastica Gentis Anglorum. Ad Fidem Codicum Manuscriptorum Recensuit Josephus Stevenson. Sumptibus Societatis; Londini, MDCCCXXXVIII. Lib. V. Cap. XXIII. Page 412.


I will keep checking my entries to update them with older sources.

 

[Mikey]

Re: Historical Events Database

May I have access to the database too? :)

Many thanks

Sent you a PM.

 

[Palinurus]

Re: Historical Events Database

DATA: I tried to log in to the database website using the info you gave me in the PM but didn't get access. Tried three times, last time with slightly different case but to no avail at all. Is there something special I should do or refrain from?

 

[Altair]

Re: Historical Events Database

May I have access to the database too? :)

Many thanks

Sent you a PM.

Thanks Data,

what about visualizing of these events? If you give me a csv-file with (approximate) coordinates I could generate a KMZ (Google Earth format) file, so that we can see all these events at proper locations in Google Earth. :)

Greets

Altair

 

[Gaby]

Re: Historical Events Database

I missed an entire event from 365 (Crete, tsunami and earthquake already entered by Zadius Sky). Here are the events that I'm extracting:

While this usurper [Procopius] yet lived, whose various deeds and whose death I have described, on 21 July in the year in which Valentinian was consul for the first time with his brother [A.D. 365], fearsome terrors suddenly strode through the whole circle of the world, the like of which neither legends nor truthful ancient histories tell us..

I was going to put this under "Unspecified prodigies under Celestial", but on second thought I think they are introducing the events cited next.

1) Slightly after daybreak, and heralded by a thick succession of fiercely shaken thunderbolts,

1) Plasma event under Celestial Keywords: fiercely shaken thunderbolts

Laura's note: "I am curious about the succession of thunderbolts that Ammianus mentions since the peoples of the time usually made a clear distinction between thunderbolts and lightning, the former being things hurled from the sky."

2) and 3) the solidity of the whole earth was made to shake and shudder, and the sea was driven away, its waves were rolled back, and it disappeared, so that the abyss of the depths was uncovered and many-shaped varieties of sea-creatures were seen stuck in the slime; the great wastes of those valleys and mountains, which the very creation had dismissed beneath the vast whirlpools, at that moment, as it was given to be believed, looked up at the sun's rays. Many ships, then, were stranded as if on dry land, and people wandered at will about the paltry remains of the waters to collect fish and the like in their hands; then the roaring sea as if insulted by its repulse rises back in turn, and through the teeming shoals dashed itself violently on islands and extensive tracts of the mainland, and flattened innumerable buildings in towns or wherever they were found. Thus in the raging conflict of the elements, the face of the earth was changed to reveal wondrous sights. 18.

2) Earthquake, Crete
3) Tsunami, Crete

(both already created by zadius sky)

4) 5)6) For the mass of waters returning when least expected killed many thousands by drowning, and with the tides whipped up to a height as they rushed back, some ships, after the anger of the watery element had grown old, were seen to have sunk, and the bodies of people killed in shipwrecks lay there, faces up or down. Other huge ships, thrust out by the mad blasts, perched on the roofs of houses, as happened at Alexandria, and others were hurled nearly two miles from the shore, like the Laconian vessel near the town of Methone which I saw when I passed by, yawning apart from long decay.

4) Mass death under Society, Keywords: thousands killed, tsunami
5) Tsunami, Alexandria
6) Tsunami, Methone (Greece)

You all let me know if this is off.

 

[Zadius Sky]

Re: Historical Events Database

I missed an entire event from 365 (Crete, tsunami and earthquake already entered by Zadius Sky).

I'm currently working through Ammianus Marcellinus and was going back on this entry date to break it down more, but you've already got it. :)

Also, Gaby, I noticed you've been inputting Books # and Chapters # in "Derived from" field where it's reserved for when the author is citing another author and that author would be inputted there.