Historical Events Database - History

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Zadig, entry 762, famine during the siege of Amida also doesn't seem to be very useful unless you want to enter it as a mass death.

A FAMINE, proper, is something caused by the environmental conditions, not acts of war. We are more concerned with the former than the latter.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database


I don't know how ya'll get so much entered so fast. I just spent an entire hour checking and re-checking the details on the events of entries 778 thru 782, trying to see if there was any recent commentary on the topic. I found that there is a wikipedia entry for the great landslide and tsunami in Lake Geneva back in 563. So that means that while making that series of entries, I can also get in an archaeological confirmation entry!

You know, if you take your time like the Cs keep recommending, pick carefully through the mud, you find gems. And sometimes those gems just simply amount to a massive increase in your knowledge.

As I mentioned, yesterday, I was constructing a tabular timeline and making comparisons. I wasn't JUST transcribing the text from Paul the Deacon, though that was part of it, I was also using google to look at maps, to get bios on any character who popped up that I didn't already know something about, and selecting some of these things to enter into my chronology so as to better help me understand the entire context of the situations as they progressed. And, since you have to THINK in order to know how to select only those items you actually need, so as to keep things as concise as possible, you tend to absorb the information better.

Did you know that anything that you think carefully about for at least three minutes, that you then transfer from thinking to writing, and that you then connect to another item, goes into your long term memory and becomes YOURS. It increases your weight.

Otherwise, if you are just copying and pasting entries without really thinking about them, without working with them, without breathing them in, they aren't doing anything for you, they are not yours, you are acting like a machine.

Oh, indeed, I APPRECIATE that you are doing this, but I could build the database myself without having to take the much longer time to check other people's entries. Once I put it in, I KNOW it's the best it can be. This project is designed to help all of you learn how to really do the kind of deep research I do. I'm trying to give you hints and direction and feedback so that you will develop some skills that will help you in a lot of other areas.

Don't be afraid to discuss or ask!

 

[Pierre]

Re: Historical Events Database

I don't know how ya'll get so much entered so fast. I just spent an entire hour checking and re-checking the details on the events of entries 778 thru 782, trying to see if there was any recent commentary on the topic. I found that there is a wikipedia entry for the great landslide and tsunami in Lake Geneva back in 563. So that means that while making that series of entries, I can also get in an archaeological confirmation entry!

You know, if you take your time like the Cs keep recommending, pick carefully through the mud, you find gems. And sometimes those gems just simply amount to a massive increase in your knowledge.

As I mentioned, yesterday, I was constructing a tabular timeline and making comparisons. I wasn't JUST transcribing the text from Paul the Deacon, though that was part of it, I was also using google to look at maps, to get bios on any character who popped up that I didn't already know something about, and selecting some of these things to enter into my chronology so as to better help me understand the entire context of the situations as they progressed. And, since you have to THINK in order to know how to select only those items you actually need, so as to keep things as concise as possible, you tend to absorb the information better.

Did you know that anything that you think carefully about for at least three minutes, that you then transfer from thinking to writing, and that you then connect to another item, goes into your long term memory and becomes YOURS. It increases your weight.

Otherwise, if you are just copying and pasting entries without really thinking about them, without working with them, without breathing them in, they aren't doing anything for you, they are not yours, you are acting like a machine.

Oh, indeed, I APPRECIATE that you are doing this, but I could build the database myself without having to take the much longer time to check other people's entries. Once I put it in, I KNOW it's the best it can be. This project is designed to help all of you learn how to really do the kind of deep research I do. I'm trying to give you hints and direction and feedback so that you will develop some skills that will help you in a lot of other areas.

Don't be afraid to discuss or ask!

I understand this mechanicalness of ours. That’s the way we were taught for years in school: listen, repeat, agree, forget your critical thinking. We were also pushed to maximize our output: more pages, more figures, more dates for better marks.

Having spend years working directly with Laura I also understand her suggestion. Here the keypoint is trying to rewire ourselves, re-discover our curiosity, our critical thinking, our discernment. It won’t happen overnight, it’s like a muscle that we almost never used and that we finally decide to train.

It might lead to results or not. We don’t know and anticipating a result would be counterproductive. It’s even a paradox: how is it possible to anticipate the solution of a problem we haven’t really solved yet?

Such anticipation can only lead to prejudice and it can also make us overlook/discard/ignore a data that we would consider as irrelevant because of our prejudice but that was actually the missing piece of the puzzle.

If you think about things you discovered during your life, you’ll probably see that it was due to some kind of serenpidity. When you expected the discovery the least, while reading a barely related book, while thinking about an unrelated topics, having a seemingly irrelevant discussion, suddenly the idea popped up, out of nowhere.

As the Cs said, and I’m paraphrasing here: don’t hasten on your path or you will miss the gems hidden between the cobblestones.

The quotes from the chroniclers are the cobblestones. We can pile them up blindly and quickly (quantitative and mechanical approach) but then we will miss the gems: all those seemingly irrelevant and unimportant things that are more or less related to the quoted event. The gems are in the context that you explore because of your curiosity. It’s open-mindedness acting together with curiosity that leads to discoveries.

So ultimately your main driver must not be maximizing the number of entry, entering data because Laura asked for it but curiosity: "I want to know more about this event?", “who was this bishop?”, “who was this chronicler?”, “where is this city?”, “what the story of this army?”, “is the same event mentioned by other sources?”, "how is this event compatible with this other data?”, etc.

If you feel this curiosity, feed it. You might even enter only one entry but do it in this spirit.

 

[Dirgni]

Re: Historical Events Database

In Widukind of Corvey's "Res gestae Saxonicae / The Deeds of the Saxon" I found this chapter about a disease and signs on clothes.

Book III (61)
After the slaughter among the barbarians had an end, strange things appeared in this year, such as cross signs on many garments. At their sight most of them were seized by a salutary fear, they feared harm and did largely penance for their sins. There were some who thought it was a disease infestation of clothes because a subsequent leprosy had struck down many mortals. But the wiser announced that the sign of the cross meant welfare and victory, and to this we also faithfully agree.
Book III (62)
At this time even the emperor (Otto I, Holy Roman Emperor - 958?) himself fell ill,...

--------------------
LXI. De prodigiis quae apparuerunt in vestimentis.

Peracta caede barbarorum eo anno prodigiosae res apparuere, notae scilicet crucis in vestimentis plurimorum. Quibus visis plurimi salubri timore perculsi adversa formidabant, idemque vitia multa ex parte emendaverunt. Fuerunt et qui lepras vestium interpretarentur, eo quod subsequens lepra multos mortales corrumperet. Sapientiores autem signum crucis salutem victoriamque prefigurasse predicabant, quibus et nos fidelem assensum prebemus.

LXII. De infirmitate imperatoris.
Eo tempore imperator et ipse aegrotare coepit,...

If this OK for you I will include this chapter in the database with

category: Society-Pestilence/Mass Death
keywords: Unspecified disease, clothes marks
Year: 958, Location: Saxony


About the clothes marks I remembered something you wrote above and that I had seen something like that in the Bible in one of the Books of Moses. I found it strange that houses and clothes could get "leprosy". And when I check the descriptions in Leviticus I do not "see" something like germs or mold or mildew is described. This "disease" could be something we know with a different name or something we did not see "for a while"? At least these Bible authors cared about this. :/

...

Next a little panegyric for Narses and FINALLY, we get something interesting. Paul writes:

In the times of this man {Narses} a very great pestilence broke out, particularly in the province of Liguria.

For suddenly there appeared certain marks among the dwellings, doors, utensils, and clothes, which, if any one wished to wash away, became more and more apparent.

{This is an odd detail.}

...

Book of Leviticus - 03
03:013:047 The garment also that the plague of leprosy is in, whether it be a woollen garment, or a linen garment;
03:013:048 Whether it be in the warp, or woof; of linen, or of woollen; whether in a skin, or in any thing made of skin;
03:013:049 And if the plague be greenish or reddish in the garment, or in the skin, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in any thing of skin; it is a plague of leprosy, and shall be shewed unto the priest:
03:013:050 And the priest shall look upon the plague, and shut up it that hath the plague seven days:
03:013:051 And he shall look on the plague on the seventh day: if the plague be spread in the garment, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in a skin, or in any work that is made of skin; the plague is a fretting leprosy; it is unclean.
03:013:052 He shall therefore burn that garment, whether warp or woof, in woollen or in linen, or any thing of skin, wherein the plague is: for it is a fretting leprosy; it shall be burnt in the fire.
03:013:053 And if the priest shall look, and, behold, the plague be not spread in the garment, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in any thing of skin;
03:013:054 Then the priest shall command that they wash the thing wherein the plague is, and he shall shut it up seven days more:
03:013:055 And the priest shall look on the plague, after that it is washed: and, behold, if the plague have not changed his colour, and the plague be not spread; it is unclean; thou shalt burn it in the fire; it is fret inward, whether it be bare within or without.
03:013:056 And if the priest look, and, behold, the plague be somewhat dark after the washing of it; then he shall rend it out of the garment, or out of the skin, or out of the warp, or out of the woof:
03:013:057 And if it appear still in the garment, either in the warp, or in the woof, or in any thing of skin; it is a spreading plague: thou shalt burn that wherein the plague is with fire.
03:013:058 And the garment, either warp, or woof, or whatsoever thing of skin it be, which thou shalt wash, if the plague be departed from them, then it shall be washed the second time, and shall be clean.
03:013:059 This is the law of the plague of leprosy in a garment of woollen or linen, either in the warp, or woof, or any thing of skins, to pronounce it clean, or to pronounce it unclean.
...

03:014:055 And for the leprosy of a garment, and of a house,
03:014:056 And for a rising, and for a scab, and for a bright spot:
03:014:057 To teach when it is unclean, and when it is clean: this is the law of leprosy.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

In Widukind of Corvey's "Res gestae Saxonicae / The Deeds of the Saxon" I found this chapter about a disease and signs on clothes.

If this OK for you I will include this chapter in the database with

category: Society-Pestilence/Mass Death
keywords: Unspecified disease, clothes marks {make that "strange markings"}
Year: 958, Location: Saxony

{make that "strange markings"}


About the clothes marks I remembered something you wrote above and that I had seen something like that in the Bible in one of the Books of Moses. I found it strange that houses and clothes could get "leprosy". And when I check the descriptions in Leviticus I do not "see" something like germs or mold or mildew is described. This "disease" could be something we know with a different name or something we did not see "for a while"? At least these Bible authors cared about this. :/

Excellent find. I don't know what the heck it is but yeah, we've come across it a few times. And, since we have come across it in several contexts, with marks on different things, let's just use "Strange Markings" for all of them without specifying the objects. That way if we search, we'll pull up all of them consistently.

I'm baffled by this one. All we can do is collect all the data together, make sure we have it keyed properly, and then pull up all the similar events and see if there is something that emerges as a possible cause.

Stick that bit from the bible in the extra comments space, too. Maybe we'll find something in medical literature.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database


Here's an article about leprosy that pronounces the Bible extract as incomprehensible in light of what is actually known about leprosy. So they were obviously talking about some other highly contagious, plague-like disease there.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Popular_Science_Monthly/Volume_24/April_1884/Biblical_and_Modern_Leprosy

Now, there are certain affections of the skin, met with at the present day, to which the expression " white as snow " would be applicable, but leprosy is not one of them. Indeed, in this disease, the skin usually becomes dark rather than light in color, and in none of the few score of cases which I have had the oppor- tunity of observing would the phrase " white as snow " be other than highly inappropriate.

The somewhat detailed description of leprosy which is found in the thirteenth chapter of Leviticus is almost unintelligible in the light of our present knowledge, and, after making due allowance for the neces- sarily imperfect translation of the Hebrew scriptures, we are forced to believe that Moses associated leprosy with other diseases, as many dis- tinguished medical writers have done in later years. Indeed, it is only during the past few decades that the disease has been carefully studied in various parts of the world and its identity thoroughly established.

In studying the Mosaic laws respecting leprosy, we find statements made and directions given for its recognition by the priests who could not have referred to the disease which we now call leprosy. For instance, it is stated that if the leprosy cover the whole skin of him that hath the plague, the priest shall pronounce him clean. This would hardly apply to modern leprosy, which never involves the whole skin, as far as my observation goes. But there are other cutaneous affec- tions which frequently do cover the afflicted subject "from his head even to his foot." Why the leper should have been pronounced un- clean while the disease was spreading, and clean when it had reached that point where further spreading was impossible, I will leave for others to determine, merely remarking that a law which permitted only such lepers within the camp as were covered by the disease from head to foot could certainly not have had a sanitary origin. Further- more, the rule that the leper should be shut up for seven days, and then examined by the priest, with a view to noting the change that had taken place in the mean time, would seem to indicate some other dis- ease than modern leprosy, for the latter is extremely chronic in its course, and never presents any noticeable change in so short a time even under the most active treatment. What was meant by the ref- erence to leprosy of clothing and of houses is now difficult to under- stand. There are infectious diseases at the present day, the germs of which may dwell for a time in clothing and the walls of houses, but there is nothing in connection with the modern leprosy which would justify us in believing that it ever infects an inanimate object.

On the other hand, if we assume that the leprosy of ancient times was identical with that of the present day, it seems strange that Moses failed to mention the loss of sensation, the deformity of the hands, and other features which are the most striking characteristics of the dis- ease. That the leprosy which I have described has not changed its type in the course of centuries, as other diseases have done in a com- paratively short time, is shown by the fact that some of the earliest medical descriptions are so correct that they might answer their pur- pose in a modern text-book, and we are therefore led to the conclusion that Moses, though possessing all the learning of the Egyptian priests, including the highest medical knowledge of his age, did not note the distinctive characteristics of leprosy, but classed it under one name with other prevalent diseases.

So, we are still without an answer as to what kind of stuff could get on clothes and then make a person sick so that they died rather quickly unless it is just simply something that falls from the sky.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Historical Events Database

Here's an article about leprosy that pronounces the Bible extract as incomprehensible in light of what is actually known about leprosy.

It is weird because I had the impression that it was depicted as highly contagious, while what is known now as leprosy is not that contagious. It requires prolonged intimate contact.

I had a look at the etymology for clues:

leper (n.) _http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=leper
"one afflicted with leprosy," late 14c., from Late Latin lepra, from Greek lepra "leprosy," from fem. of lepros (adj.) "scaly," from leops "a scale," related to lepein "to peel," from lopos "a peel," from PIE root *lep- "to peel, scale" (see leaf (n.)). Originally the word for the disease itself (mid-13c.); because of the -er ending it came to mean "person with leprosy," so leprosy was coined 16c. from adjective leprous.

leprosy (n.) _http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=leprosy
1530s (earlier lepruse, mid-15c.), from leprous; see leper. First used in Coverdale Bible, where it renders Hebrew cara'ath, which apparently was a comprehensive term for skin diseases. Because of pejorative associations, the use of the word in medical context has been banned by the World Health Organization and replaced by Hansen's disease, named for Norwegian physician Armauer Hansen (1841-1912) who in 1871 discovered the bacillus that causes it.

So maybe it was a term borrowed in the 14c for something which was altogether a different disease way back then. Hansen's disease is not something that could be considered a "scale skin disease". Psoriasis fits more that description but here it seems to be an altogether different thing. Weird.

Added: Viruses do cause "peeling skin" rashes. It is true that some viral diseases are spread through the sharing of clothes and stuff, but the markings on the cloths is something I never heard of before.

 

[Mike]

Re: Historical Events Database

Found an interesting paper about meteors, etc (with a list). Chronology starting in 453 AD that might be of interest for the project. Might be hard to track down and use sources though due to being in languages other than English.

Title: Meteors, Meteor Showers and Meteorites in the Middle Ages: From European Medieval Sources
Authors: dall'Olmo, U.

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1978JHA.....9..123D/0000123.000.html

Also found a list of signs etc on the web that has some interesting info that might be of interest. Again the sources all seem to be not translated into English after doing some searching around, so I decided to cut and paste the interesting dates here and see if people fluent in the various languages might be able to track down the sources, etc.

_http://www.bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm

992: Coincidence of Crucifixion and Annunciation; Nouaillé begins its charters for the next decade with "Appropinquante finem mundi..."; Adso, an old man, leaves on a one-way pilgrimage to Jerusalem; German chronicles report light from north at dawn like the sun, rumor among many that 3 suns, 3 moons and stars were fighting, indicating heavy mortality and famine (Thietmar IV, 19; An. Quedl. ad an. 993, MGH SS III, 69; Annales Augustani, ibid. p.124).

1005-1006: Terrible famine throughout Europe, associated with apocalyptic portents in several texts: Annales Sangallienses by Hepidannus "Ecce fames qua per secla non saevior ulla" (MGH SS 1.81); Annales Leodinienses and Laubienses, MGH SS IV, p.18; Annales Quedlinbourgenses ad an. 1009 MGH SS 3.80; Annales Hildesheimenses, ad an.1006); Glaber, Quinque libri, 2.9 (5 years ca. 1001-1006); Hugh of Flavigny (based on Glaber); Chronicon Turonensis ad an. 1006; Sigebert of Gembloux ad an. 1006);

1006: May: New star sighted in heavens (Super Nova of 1006), at same time a chapelain of the Emperor converts to Judaism (Albert of Metz, De diversitate temporum, I, 6-7; II, 22-3 ed. MGH SS IV, p.704, 720-3; Annales Leodinienses and Laubienses, MGH SS IV, p.18; Annales Mosomagenses, MGH SS 3.161; Annales Beneventani, ibid., p.177; probably Radulphus Glaber Quinque libri 3.3.9; Chronicon Venetum, MGH SS 7.36). B. Goldstein, "The Supernova of A.D. 1006," The Astronomical Journal 70 (1965): 105-111.

1009: Rain of blood; sun turns red and fails to shine for three days; plague and death follow (Annales Quedlinbourgenses ad an. 1009 MGH SS 3.80).4

1012-1014: Various prodigies and natural disasters provoke the expulsion of the Jews from Mainz and lead some to believe that the world was "returning to its original chaos." (Annales Quedlinburgenses, MGH SS, III p.82-3.

1033: prodigies, eclipse, ignis ardentium, massive earthquake etc. leads to penitential procession in Jouarre-Rebais, dated millennium of the Passion, Miracles de Saint-Ayeul (Miracula sancti agili abbatis, 1, 3; AA SS Août VI, p.588);

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database


Another of the "strange markings" business with a different twist from GoT, year 582:

In the Paris region real blood rained from a cloud, falling on the clothes of quite a number of people and so staining them with gore that they stripped them off in horror. This portent was observed in three different places in that city. In the Senlis area a man woke up one morning to find the whole of the inside of his house spattered with blood. This year the people suffered from a terrible epidemic; and great numbers of them were carried off by a whole series of malignant diseases, the main symptoms of which were boils and tumors...

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Also found a list of signs etc on the web that has some interesting info that might be of interest. Again the sources all seem to be not translated into English after doing some searching around, so I decided to cut and paste the interesting dates here and see if people fluent in the various languages might be able to track down the sources, etc.

_http://www.bible.ca/pre-date-setters.htm

The only thing something like that is useful for is to find and go and read the original sources.

 

[Dirgni]

Re: Historical Events Database

In Widukind of Corvey's "Res gestae Saxonicae / The Deeds of the Saxon" I found this chapter about a disease and signs on clothes.

If this OK for you I will include this chapter in the database with

category: Society-Pestilence/Mass Death
keywords: Unspecified disease, clothes marks {make that "strange markings"}
Year: 958, Location: Saxony

{make that "strange markings"}


About the clothes marks I remembered something you wrote above and that I had seen something like that in the Bible in one of the Books of Moses. I found it strange that houses and clothes could get "leprosy". And when I check the descriptions in Leviticus I do not "see" something like germs or mold or mildew is described. This "disease" could be something we know with a different name or something we did not see "for a while"? At least these Bible authors cared about this. :/

Excellent find. I don't know what the heck it is but yeah, we've come across it a few times. And, since we have come across it in several contexts, with marks on different things, let's just use "Strange Markings" for all of them without specifying the objects. That way if we search, we'll pull up all of them consistently.

I'm baffled by this one. All we can do is collect all the data together, make sure we have it keyed properly, and then pull up all the similar events and see if there is something that emerges as a possible cause.

Stick that bit from the bible in the extra comments space, too. Maybe we'll find something in medical literature.

I included the text with keywords "Unspecified disease" and "strange markings" and added that bit from the bible in the extra comments space, too.
Thank you for the help and the information about leprosy Laura and Gaby. When asking "http://www.frag-caesar.de/" about the meaning of "lepra" I get:

entzündliche Hauterkrankung (verschiedener Art) - inflammatory skin disease (various kinds)
Lepra - leprosy
Schuppenflechte - psoriasis

It is really interesting what you learn when reading "original" texts from times in the past. You may get some sort of "feeling" / "knowledge" what could have happend back then. And you may get some knowledge what to look out for and maybe avoid (e.g. when there strange markings on clothes, plague). It is interesting, what they (in history books, modern media) tell us about the same times what they omit. And the times then and the times now are very similar ....

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

It is really interesting what you learn when reading "original" texts from times in the past. You may get some sort of "feeling" / "knowledge" what could have happend back then. And you may get some knowledge what to look out for and maybe avoid (e.g. when there strange markings on clothes, plague). It is interesting, what they (in history books, modern media) tell us about the same times what they omit. And the times then and the times now are very similar ....

Considering the fact that many of the things that were happening back then have been happening in the past dozen years with increasing frequency, I think that learning about it is practically survival training.

Today was gruelling for me because I do see what an awful, terrifying period those people lived through, and how many millions of them died. After being immersed in these texts for so long, I start to feel like I know the people almost personally.

But obviously, some survived, mostly people who got together and helped each other or holed up in their country places which then turned into monasteries because of the whole religious thing that was going on. In times like that, I guess it is natural for ignorant people to run screaming to their god because they have no idea what is happening. They thought if they all got together and prayed a lot, it would go away and thus the monastic type of life came into being. I hope we can do better this time around with knowledge.

 

[Palinurus]

Re: Historical Events Database

I don't know how ya'll get so much entered so fast. I just spent an entire hour checking and re-checking the details on the events of entries 778 thru 782, trying to see if there was any recent commentary on the topic. I found that there is a wikipedia entry for the great landslide and tsunami in Lake Geneva back in 563. So that means that while making that series of entries, I can also get in an archaeological confirmation entry!

You know, if you take your time like the Cs keep recommending, pick carefully through the mud, you find gems. And sometimes those gems just simply amount to a massive increase in your knowledge.

As I mentioned, yesterday, I was constructing a tabular timeline and making comparisons. I wasn't JUST transcribing the text from Paul the Deacon, though that was part of it, I was also using google to look at maps, to get bios on any character who popped up that I didn't already know something about, and selecting some of these things to enter into my chronology so as to better help me understand the entire context of the situations as they progressed. And, since you have to THINK in order to know how to select only those items you actually need, so as to keep things as concise as possible, you tend to absorb the information better.

Did you know that anything that you think carefully about for at least three minutes, that you then transfer from thinking to writing, and that you then connect to another item, goes into your long term memory and becomes YOURS. It increases your weight.

Otherwise, if you are just copying and pasting entries without really thinking about them, without working with them, without breathing them in, they aren't doing anything for you, they are not yours, you are acting like a machine.

<snip>

Thank you for reiterating this in so many words.

I was doing just that but began to doubt and question myself because I seemed to be not proceeding as swift as some of the other contributors apparently do.

Now I feel encouraged to plod along as planned and I'm learning a lot while doing so -- not only in terms of content but also as regards the technical aspects.

Thanks again for explicating this in such concise terms.

 

[seek10]

Re: Historical Events Database

I don't know how ya'll get so much entered so fast. I just spent an entire hour checking and re-checking the details on the events of entries 778 thru 782, trying to see if there was any recent commentary on the topic. I found that there is a wikipedia entry for the great landslide and tsunami in Lake Geneva back in 563. So that means that while making that series of entries, I can also get in an archaeological confirmation entry!

You know, if you take your time like the Cs keep recommending, pick carefully through the mud, you find gems. And sometimes those gems just simply amount to a massive increase in your knowledge.

As I mentioned, yesterday, I was constructing a tabular timeline and making comparisons. I wasn't JUST transcribing the text from Paul the Deacon, though that was part of it, I was also using google to look at maps, to get bios on any character who popped up that I didn't already know something about, and selecting some of these things to enter into my chronology so as to better help me understand the entire context of the situations as they progressed. And, since you have to THINK in order to know how to select only those items you actually need, so as to keep things as concise as possible, you tend to absorb the information better.

Did you know that anything that you think carefully about for at least three minutes, that you then transfer from thinking to writing, and that you then connect to another item, goes into your long term memory and becomes YOURS. It increases your weight.

Otherwise, if you are just copying and pasting entries without really thinking about them, without working with them, without breathing them in, they aren't doing anything for you, they are not yours, you are acting like a machine.

<snip>

Thank you for reiterating this in so many words.

I was doing just that but began to doubt and question myself because I seemed to be not proceeding as swift as some of the other contributors apparently do.

Now I feel encouraged to plod along as planned and I'm learning a lot while doing so -- not only in terms of content but also as regards the technical aspects.

Thanks again for explicating this in such concise terms.

Thank you for these comments. I was very angry with my self during this project for being slow and the need for opening so many windows ( couple of maps , 3 or 4 wiki windows of characters/events , one excel sheet for draft entries , one window for the source text) and after all that still not 100% sure of locations/authors/timings/how to categorize. Interesting thing is , sequence of doubts that surface are layered like rabbit hole and doesn't even know where it leads (wondering where I started train of search) and most importantly no body seems have done this before despite Rome had been cradle of the modern society ( of course electrical universe is relatively new concept).

 

[Zadig]

Re: Historical Events Database

Zadig, entry 762, famine during the siege of Amida also doesn't seem to be very useful unless you want to enter it as a mass death.

A FAMINE, proper, is something caused by the environmental conditions, not acts of war. We are more concerned with the former than the latter.

Zadig, let's be discussing things, please.

Entry 763, the soldiers suffering hunger during a war, doesn't seem to be anything special enough to enter here since it is common to warfare.

Because severe famines and other earth changes happen in Upper Mesopotamia between 495 and 502, after a gap of circa 15 years ( I think the events of 491 by MtS are doubloons of 497) And the high prices of wheat from 503 up to 506 are, I think, not due to the army’s presence in the region. It’s just to show the continuation.

But, yes, it’s maybe superfluous.

I understand this mechanicalness of ours. That’s the way we were taught for years in school: listen, repeat, agree, forget your critical thinking. We were also pushed to maximize our output: more pages, more figures, more dates for better marks.

Sure, you are a good student, according to your ”erudition”, i.e. if you have a good memory, and if you can quote numerous authors, sources, but the quality of your knowledge doesn’t matter.

Otherwise, if you are just copying and pasting entries without really thinking about them, without working with them, without breathing them in, they aren't doing anything for you, they are not yours, you are acting like a machine.

(…)

The quotes from the chroniclers are the cobblestones. We can pile them up blindly and quickly (quantitative and mechanical approach) but then we will miss the gems.

True. I completely piled them up blindly in the beginning. Less after when I realized that Agapius and Theophanes were not good sources for events prior to the VIIth century. Therefore, I began to read as fast as I can other sources. But, yes, it was mechanical because I didn’t dig thoroughly the context.

I wasn't JUST transcribing the text from Paul the Deacon, though that was part of it, I was also using google to look at maps, to get bios on any character who popped up that I didn't already know something about, and selecting some of these things to enter into my chronology so as to better help me understand the entire context of the situations as they progressed. And, since you have to THINK in order to know how to select only those items you actually need, so as to keep things as concise as possible, you tend to absorb the information better.

(…)

Once I put it in, I KNOW it's the best it can be. This project is designed to help all of you learn how to really do the kind of deep research I do. I'm trying to give you hints and direction and feedback so that you will develop some skills that will help you in a lot of other areas.

(…)

So ultimately your main driver must not be maximizing the number of entry, entering data because Laura asked for it but curiosity.

(…)

I don't know how ya'll get so much entered so fast.

I agree, I completely missed this point. My approach was to maximize my primary sources, because it was the only way for me to know if something happened during a specific year.

Working as fast as I can, in general terms but I don’t stop to details : I use several sources, and see if I can harmonize them, and I use the astronomical dating of comets like markers. If several authors reports events for a specific year, I know that there is high probability that my dating is right

E.g (years 400-401 and 418-419) the only way for me to corroborate the reports of Philostorgius was to check all the sources of the period. The events in MC, Hyd, CP and Soz match, and it also corresponds to comets in China.

Therefore, my progress is fast, and I can cover long period in short time.

"I want to know more about this event?", “who was this bishop?”, “who was this chronicler?”, “where is this city?”, “what the story of this army?”, “is the same event mentioned by other sources?”, "how is this event compatible with this other data?”, etc.

(...)
The gems are in the context that you explore because of your curiosity. It’s open-mindedness acting together with curiosity that leads to discoveries
(...)
As the Cs said, and I’m paraphrasing here: don’t hasten on your path or you will miss the gems hidden between the cobblestones.

But, as you said, the gems hidden between the cobblestones are completely lost.

Here the keypoint is trying to rewire ourselves, re-discover our curiosity, our critical thinking, our discernment. It won’t happen overnight, it’s like a muscle that we almost never used and that we finally decide to train.
(...)
If you feel this curiosity, feed it. You might even enter only one entry but do it in this spirit.
(...)
This project is designed to help all of you learn how to really do the kind of deep research I do. I'm trying to give you hints and direction and feedback so that you will develop some skills that will help you in a lot of other areas.

Ok, I understand that the purpose of the database is not to repeat mechanically what I learnt during my education, but to really connect the dots.

Therefore, I will do it for the IVth century because the events of Theophanes don’t make sense and don’t match with the observation of comets in China.

Anyway, I will have less time in March, so I will not add entries like crazy.