Historical Events Database - History

[Alana]

Re: Historical Events Database

(Zadig, I'll merge them under your entries, because Leo the Deacon doesn't seem such a good source as John Skylitzes.)

I think it's better to merge Skylitzes under Leo the Deacon, because Leo is earlier and the source of Skylitzes.

Thanks, it's done.

 

[Palinurus]

Re: Historical Events Database

Since my previous post went unanswered, I've now taken the liberty to add cross reference numbers in the database to both Laura's entry 1807 (71 AD) as well as to my own entry 1710 (62 AD) -- just to prevent completely forgetting that I ever brought up the issue in the first place.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Yes, I did change my mind about it, but I'll have to take a closer look. I can't right now because we've been doing taxes and I don't have any extra time plus have to do session tonight.

I'll go back to it when the load lightens.

 

[Palinurus]

Re: Historical Events Database

Okay Laura, no problem.

I just wanted to make sure this issue doesn't get overlooked of even lost in all the other mayhem you're surrounded with.

 

[Dirgni]

Re: Historical Events Database

It just occurred to me that if these barbarians are invented mostly, somebody may have been having a really good laugh inventing "long haired Franks" and Langobards to take the place of Hairy stars and Bearded stars. I bet they thought they were incredibly clever.

Jordanes or Ammianus Marcellinus are some candidates for the laughing IMHO. :D

I included another entry (1844) for year 376 with another "Huns story" from Ammianus Marcellinus. This is right at the official starting point of the Middle Ages. It seems that the stories of the stories of the "celestial / comet Olympic gods" were maybe replaced by Hun (Avar, Barbar) stories? Maybe we find that Mongol stories are a followup of the Avar stories? Maybe Mongols are used as a template from later scribes when "updating the old stories"?

Whenever I read some source from whatever century Avars / Huns are mentioned quite similar way. They just use to pop up shortly with some uncertainty how to name them. And the stories somewhat stick out of the usual (often gold/silver/riches/booty is mentioned). Beside the bearded Langobards and longhaired Franks there are the Goths frequently mentioned together with the Huns in the earlier database entries. And in the later chronicles Jordanes is often mentioned; so he was known then. And maybe later chronicles/histories take over the template for presenting some things?

The whole "barbarians dunnit" thing is somewhat Janus-headed. There is "some celestial aspect" but there seem also "real (?)" human "invader" weaved into the story. This makes the whole thing so mind-twisting. Maybe the humans were some refugees coming from affected areas (along the Danube?) and the local PTB elite was fighting them?

I checked the Bavarian history as they were often named as neighbors of the Avars. The Romans "left" Raetia end of the 5th century (488) and supposedly took their servants and slaves with them. It was supposed to be less populated / quite empty afterwards. Then the country, which is now Bavaria dropped out of history for some decades. It is mentioned by Jordanes (for year 551: uncertain), Venantius Fortunatus (first reliable for year 565), Fredegar ((for year 631/35; Fredegar got his name later and is not a very reliable source) and Jonas of Bobbio (for year 640). And when you read some Bavarian history the first Bavarians seem to be dropped out of the blue. Sometime there were just there and the Franks did not complain about them. Until the times of Charlemagne and his heirs the Bavarians were mentioned only scarcely. And a lot of trying to explain are connected with them.

Something curious: Bavaria includes Avar and Hungaria includes Hun.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

It just occurred to me that if these barbarians are invented mostly, somebody may have been having a really good laugh inventing "long haired Franks" and Langobards to take the place of Hairy stars and Bearded stars. I bet they thought they were incredibly clever.

Jordanes or Ammianus Marcellinus are some candidates for the laughing IMHO. :D

Well, I don't think they are the ones who invented such things entirely and covered everything that happened with that explanation. What I was saying was that it was the editors/redactors who did that. Sometimes you can actually see where the editing has been done (as in the example I gave earlier) because all the descriptive terms are those that could be used for environmental catastrophes, only the agent of the destruction has been changed. My guess is that the redactors/copyists were either lazy, or unsure of their Greek or Latin and knew that they needed to do minimal editing in order to maintain the "style" of the author, so to say.

I included another entry (1844) for year 376 with another "Huns story" from Ammianus Marcellinus. This is right at the official starting point of the Middle Ages. It seems that the stories of the stories of the "celestial / comet Olympic gods" were maybe replaced by Hun (Avar, Barbar) stories? Maybe we find that Mongol stories are a followup of the Avar stories? Maybe Mongols are used as a template from later scribes when "updating the old stories"?

Yup. But, like I said, I'm not too sure that it originated with the witnesses, but the later copyists during Carolingian times when it was important to make the ancient empire seem like a good thing that was destroyed by evil barbarians rather than an evil thing that was destroyed by the gods. Because, of course, the Carolingians were interested in reconstituting the Empire.

The whole "barbarians dunnit" thing is somewhat Janus-headed. There is "some celestial aspect" but there seem also "real (?)" human "invader" weaved into the story. This makes the whole thing so mind-twisting. Maybe the humans were some refugees coming from affected areas (along the Danube?) and the local PTB elite was fighting them?

That's how it seems when reading Paul the Deacon. It seems obvious that the land was laid waste, the population was massively diminished, and what was going on was mainly marauding bands of intruders duking it out with survivors. That comes through loud and clear in spite of the editorial attempts to mask it.

I checked the Bavarian history as they were often named as neighbors of the Avars. The Romans "left" Raetia end of the 5th century (488) and supposedly took their servants and slaves with them. It was supposed to be less populated / quite empty afterwards. Then the country, which is now Bavaria dropped out of history for some decades. It is mentioned by Jordanes (for year 551: uncertain), Venantius Fortunatus (first reliable for year 565), Fredegar ((for year 631/35; Fredegar got his name later and is not a very reliable source) and Jonas of Bobbio (for year 640). And when you read some Bavarian history the first Bavarians seem to be dropped out of the blue. Sometime there were just there and the Franks did not complain about them. Until the times of Charlemagne and his heirs the Bavarians were mentioned only scarcely. And a lot of trying to explain are connected with them.

Exactly. All these barbarian problems (barbarians as destroyers of everything 'good') came to the fore at the time of Charlemagne... most suspicious.

There's an odd discrepancy that Bela Lukács notes here:
http://www.rmki.kfki.hu/~lukacs/FOMENKO1.htm

In particular:

While Hungarian sources are quite consequent in the date of conquest (889, 895, 896...) there is an important source giving 677. This is the so called "Vienna Illustrated Chronicle" or "Illustrated Chronicle of Mark Kalti"; a Hungarian book, you can look for it in [10] (but I doubt if you will). The text tells that the Magyars "came out of Scythia" in 677 AD, 104 years after the death of Attila, during Emperor Constantine III and Pope Zacharia. Now, the data are inconsistent. According to orthodox history the death of Attila the Hun is 453, and 453+104=557. Note that this Emperor we number IV. Obviously the chronology of humanists was not yet ready at the completion of the chronicle; the most probable date of the birth of the chronicle is 1370, pre-Petavius and pre-Scaliger. However, the date can be completely independent of humanists, and real. Something did happen about 677. The foundation of present Bulgaria by Khan Asparuch is 681, and archaeological observations clearly show the appearance of a new population in the Carpathian Basin from the East in that time.

So, another one of those glitches that got through that shows that somebody really was deliberately working on the dates and events in a particular way, but 1) not everybody got the memo; 2) even if they got the memo, some of them made mistakes and their manipulations of the texts were not perfect.

So, what do we do with the idea that the whole Attila thing was actually part of the cometary bombardment of the 6th century, and was not, in fact, back in the 5th?

Something curious: Bavaria includes Avar and Hungaria includes Hun.

No kidding!

 

[Dirgni]

Re: Historical Events Database

But, like I said, I'm not too sure that it originated with the witnesses, but the later copyists during Carolingian times when it was important to make the ancient empire seem like a good thing that was destroyed by evil barbarians rather than an evil thing that was destroyed by the gods. Because, of course, the Carolingians were interested in reconstituting the Empire.

Till now I just pretended that the historian timeline is "in parallel" to the "real" one. From this I saw that there could be an event happening in more or less regular intervals. Therefore I have a theory that Huns = celestial event happening in regular intervals - maybe Halley. Therefore I try to fill in the gap to check this. And as Jordanes was very popular with the witnesses or editor, there is maybe something to be found there (or not).

Yup. But, like I said, I'm not too sure that it originated with the witnesses, but the later copyists during Carolingian times when it was important to make the ancient empire seem like a good thing that was destroyed by evil barbarians rather than an evil thing that was destroyed by the gods. Because, of course, the Carolingians were interested in reconstituting the Empire.

Yes. Someone was really interested in reconstituting the bad old times (for the normal people).

That's how it seems when reading Paul the Deacon. It seems obvious that the land was laid waste, the population was massively diminished, and what was going on was mainly marauding bands of intruders duking it out with survivors. That comes through loud and clear in spite of the editorial attempts to mask it.

My impression with the "newer" sources were marauding gangs molesting the people and making war with the neighboring bands. Einhards Charlemagne had a hobby to ramp-up ruined churches again; and there seemed to be quite some of them.

There's an odd discrepancy that Bela Lukács notes here:
http://www.rmki.kfki.hu/~lukacs/FOMENKO1.htm

In particular:

While Hungarian sources are quite consequent in the date of conquest (889, 895, 896...) there is an important source giving 677. This is the so called "Vienna Illustrated Chronicle" or "Illustrated Chronicle of Mark Kalti"; a Hungarian book, you can look for it in [10] (but I doubt if you will). The text tells that the Magyars "came out of Scythia" in 677 AD, 104 years after the death of Attila, during Emperor Constantine III and Pope Zacharia. Now, the data are inconsistent. According to orthodox history the death of Attila the Hun is 453, and 453+104=557. Note that this Emperor we number IV. Obviously the chronology of humanists was not yet ready at the completion of the chronicle; the most probable date of the birth of the chronicle is 1370, pre-Petavius and pre-Scaliger. However, the date can be completely independent of humanists, and real. Something did happen about 677. The foundation of present Bulgaria by Khan Asparuch is 681, and archaeological observations clearly show the appearance of a new population in the Carpathian Basin from the East in that time.

So, another one of those glitches that got through that shows that somebody really was deliberately working on the dates and events in a particular way, but 1) not everybody got the memo; 2) even if they got the memo, some of them made mistakes and their manipulations of the texts were not perfect.

So, what do we do with the idea that the whole Attila thing was actually part of the cometary bombardment of the 6th century, and was not, in fact, back in the 5th?

Very good question.

With your theory that the whole Attila thing was actually part of the cometary bombardment of the 6th century we may have to destroy the whole history jigsaw puzzle and make it new with another picture. OK - you make the equation 5th century event(s) = 6th century event(s). And with Bela Lukács we also may have the equation 7th century event(s) = 9th century event(s)? With 889, 895, 896 we begin to leave Carolingian time and start to enter Ottonian times. Back at school I found both histories very similar anyhow. Around 889, 895, 896 also the annals of Fulda and St. Bertin stopped. From all sources I read till now when I should choose that one, which starts after a cataclysm I would choose Widukind's. He also completely ignores a pope. There are only bishops and other "lower" clerics in his story. And there are some coming up with a theory that Charlemagne never existed...

(The only other historic persons that have a similar history are Tassilo III and Henry the Lion (both Dukes of Bavaria). Both had similar issues with their relatives Pepin the Short and Frederick I Barbarossa (another beard). )

Another fact that I found surprising is that Bavaria et al was missioned by Irish ! missionaries (maybe Scotch) in the Early Middle ages. Not French, not Italian maybe Spanish but Irish missionaries. I just assumed that we have got the Christian belief from the Romans during "Raetian" times and kept it. And Irish were somewhat out of Roman Empire territory. We have got two missionary waves: 1st wave - St. Gall (St. Columbanus) and 2nd wave Saint Boniface.

So, another one of those glitches that got through that shows that somebody really was deliberately working on the dates and events in a particular way, but 1) not everybody got the memo; 2) even if they got the memo, some of them made mistakes and their manipulations of the texts were not perfect.

Another glitch I saw is in the Nibelungenlied. There is a great slaughter in the end where nearly all involved persons were killed. One of these killing persons is Etzel (Attila) and another Dietrich von Bern (Theoderic the Great). When checking Wikipedia Theoderic was born about the time when Attila supposedly died.

The Nibelungenlied also features a slain dragon (comet?), a treasure that ended in the Rhine, the dwarf Alberich with a magic cap ("cloak of invisibility"). Dietrich von Bern seems to be also a dragon slayer.
There is another version of the Nibelungenlied not playing in Burgundy but in Scandinavia (Sigurd and Völsunga saga). And Beowulf seem to be also akin to it.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Another glitch I saw is in the Nibelungenlied. There is a great slaughter in the end where nearly all involved persons were killed. One of these killing persons is Etzel (Attila) and another Dietrich von Bern (Theoderic the Great). When checking Wikipedia Theoderic was born about the time when Attila supposedly died.

The Nibelungenlied also features a slain dragon (comet?), a treasure that ended in the Rhine, the dwarf Alberich with a magic cap ("cloak of invisibility"). Dietrich von Bern seems to be also a dragon slayer.
There is another version of the Nibelungenlied not playing in Burgundy but in Scandinavia (Sigurd and Völsunga saga). And Beowulf seem to be also akin to it.

Just my 2 cents

And not to forget, the very strong similarities in the "History of the Lombards" to the story of King Arthur... and the resemblance of the "History of the Franks" to the Nibelungenlied too!

At the moment, I've got a couple of books backed up to enter in the database - read and marked - and I'm kinda digging through an analysis of Timaeus because the more I've read, the more convinced I become that the idea of Jerusalem being "The City" was stolen from the Romans in the 3rd century BC. If so, it was taken from Timaeus' now lost history of ancient Rome. There are fragments surviving in various other works, so I'll see what I find. Did come across something interesting today: apparently there was a legend that Phaeton fell to Earth in northern Italy.

I'm thinking that what we will do with this database (mentioned already), is publish it almost as it is, with only some connecting text here and there, and just put it as a group work and I'll be 'editor'. So ya'll have to decide if you want your names on the volume.

 

[bngenoh]

Re: Historical Events Database

Something curious: Bavaria includes Avar and Hungaria includes Hun.

No kidding!

+

Till now I just pretended that the historian timeline is "in parallel" to the "real" one. From this I saw that there could be an event happening in more or less regular intervals. Therefore I have a theory that Huns = celestial event happening in regular intervals - maybe Halley. Therefore I try to fill in the gap to check this. And as Jordanes was very popular with the witnesses or editor, there is maybe something to be found there (or not).

The above observation, ie aria, in Bavaria and Hungaria, piqued my interest, so I googled it:

An aria (Italian for air; plural: arie, or arias in common usage, diminutive form arietta) in music was originally any expressive melody, usually, but not always, performed by a singer. The term became used almost exclusively to describe a self-contained piece for one voice, with or without orchestral accompaniment, normally part of a larger work. The typical context for arias is opera, but vocal arias also feature in oratorios and cantatas, sharing features of the operatic arias of their periods.

The term, which derives from the Greek and Latin 'aer' (atmosphere) first appeared in relation to music in the 14th century when it simply signified a manner or style of singing or playing.

I'm thinking of possible electrophonic effects. But the aria maybe a coincidence, so fwiw.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database


It wasn't "aria" it was AVAR.

 

[Dirgni]

Re: Historical Events Database

Did the Phaeton legend come with a place in Northern Italy? If yes we may be able to find traces of it there in situ.

This event was a really big one. It must have been very difficult to suppress or change it as it must have been retold and retold again and again by the surviving "normal" people. Probably there are still versions in the local or regional folk tales (sagas). They may tell us about what happened and where.

 

[Laura]

Re: Historical Events Database

Did the Phaeton legend come with a place in Northern Italy? If yes we may be able to find traces of it there in situ.

This event was a really big one. It must have been very difficult to suppress or change it as it must have been retold and retold again and again by the surviving "normal" people. Probably there are still versions in the local or regional folk tales (sagas). They may tell us about what happened and where.

All the book says is that:

Polybius' classification at the beginning of Book 9 of the different types of history results in such matters (colonies' social histories) not being considered serious history. Consequently, Timaeus' inclusion of such material can be used against him to show his ignorance and foolishness. ... example...

At 2.16 Polybius embarks on a geographical description of the Po River region (Cisalpine Gaul), and on the subject of the river itself he finishes his discussion by noting that he will pass over the various legends the Greeks recount, specifically that of Phaethon falling to earth in the area. But he promises to return to the topic at a suitable moment, "especially because of the ignorance of Timaeus on this region." It is a safe assumption that Timaeus himself recorded the story of Phaethon and "all the tragic material" that accompanied it... Unfortunately, we do not have the later discussion he promises of Timaeus' description of the river...

...the information Polybius provides shows Timaeus at work as a "cultural" historian, either using the myth to explain local customs or reporting that the locals traced their customs back to Phaethon's death.

 

[Dirgni]

Re: Historical Events Database

Maybe Gaby can find something in Po region (quite some area)?

When checking about this I only found Hyginus' Fabulae, which did not include more information. There is an English translation here:
_http://www.theoi.com/Text/HyginusFabulae4.html#152A

[152A] CLII A. PHAETHON

Phaethon, son of Sol and Clymene, who had secretly mounted his father’s car, and had been borne too high above the earth, from fear fell into the river Eridanus. When Jupiter struck him with a thunderbolt, everything started to burn. In order to have a reason for destroying the whole race of mortals, Jove pretended he wanted to put out the fire; he let loose the rivers everywhere, and all the human race perished except Deucalion and Pyrrha. But the sisters of Phaethon, because they had yoked the horses without the orders of their father, were changed into poplar trees.

[154] CLIV. PHAETHON OF HESIOD

Phaethon, son of Clymenus, son of Sol, and the nymph Merope, who, as we have heard was and Oceanid, upon being told by his father that his grandfather was Sol, put to bad use the chariot he asked for. For when he was carried too near the earth, everything burned in the fire that came near, and, struck by a thunderbolt, he fell into the river Po. This river is called Eridanus by the Greeks; Pherecydes was the first to name it. The Indians became black, because their blood was turned to a dark color from the heat that came near. The sister of Phaethon, too, in grieving for their brother, were changed into poplar trees. Their tears, as Hesiod tells, hardened into amber; [in spite of the change] they are called Heliades [daughters of Helios]. They are, then, Merope, Helie, Aegle, Lampetia, Phoebe, Aetherie, Dioxippe. Moreover, Cygnus, King of Liguria, who was related to Phaethon, while mourning for his relative was changed into a swan; it, too, when it dies sings a mournful song.

There is also something in "Bulfinch's Mythology: The Age of Fable by Thomas Bulfinch". I do not know where Thomas Bulfinch had his stories from and how much of them is "update" by himself. Most probably not very useful.
_http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3327.html.gen

 

[Gaby]

Re: Historical Events Database

Maybe Gaby can find something in Po region (quite some area)?

In the Italian section of wiki for Phaethon, Napier and Clube are referenced (The Cosmic Serpent). Then, the following regions are cited:

_http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetonte

Gli abitanti della terra chiesero aiuto a Zeus che intervenne per salvare la terra e, adirato, scagliò un fulmine contro Fetonte, che cadde alle foci del fiume Eridano, forse nell'odierna Crespino sul Po o nelle terre di Alfonsine. Le sue sorelle, le Eliadi, spaventate, piansero abbondanti lacrime con viso afflitto e vennero trasformate dagli dèi in pioppi biancheggianti. Le loro lacrime divennero ambra. Un'altra versione racconta, invece, che Fetonte precipitò nella zona termale dei Colli Euganei, fra Abano Terme e Montegrotto, collegandosi con il culto locale del dio veneto Aponus, identificato con Apollo.

There are hyperlinks for each region, basically Emilia Romagna and Padova.

Then I found a couple of Italian articles, zooming in into the regions where Phaethon presumably fell:

_http://alfonsinemonamour.racine.ra.it/alfonsine/Alfonsine/fetonte.htm
_http://www.shan-newspaper.com/web/tradizioni-celtiche/649-il-mito-di-fetonte-e-la-citta-di-rama-1.html

I'll have to read them slowly because they are making geographical and historical parallels with Greek mythology, Danae and the Grail stories and several other things. Here a few images of the region:

 

[Gaby]

Re: Historical Events Database

Then I found a couple of Italian articles, zooming in into the regions where Phaethon presumably fell:

_http://alfonsinemonamour.racine.ra.it/alfonsine/Alfonsine/fetonte.htm
_http://www.shan-newspaper.com/web/tradizioni-celtiche/649-il-mito-di-fetonte-e-la-citta-di-rama-1.html

I'll have to read them slowly because they are making geographical and historical parallels with Greek mythology, Danae and the Grail stories and several other things.

The second link has an English section. They don't have a translation of their Phaethon series, but some info is summarized in their Celtic traditions article:

_http://www.shan-newspaper.com/web/english-page/13-the-rama-vive-project.html

This ancient past is also still present within the territory of Piedmont. The numerous dolmen and menhir that dot the valleys of Piedmont reveal the presence of settlements that, in the distant past, occupied the lands from many centuries. This fascinating history puts us face-to-face with myths, legends and traditions preserved by the elders. The megalithic walls unearthed by the Ecospirituality Foundation in the Susa Valley, attributed to the mythic city of Rama, seem to offer proof of the presence regarding a vanished civilization; nevertheless, still present in the myths preserved by the elders. A civilization that can be linked to the Celtic culture.

We are used to considering our roots and our history on the basis of the information that is provided to us by the culture in which we were born and raised. Usually, the ancient roots that support our culture, and from which it was born, are not considered.

The areas of northern Italy are rich in traditions, legends and megaliths. Such heritage unites with the Celtic culture that is spread throughout Europe, in which our roots can be found.

Celtic culture is normally identified with countries of northern Europe. Italy is not regarded as a Celtic territory; yet, Italy contains imposing megalithic ruins that seemingly have no explanation or place within history.

Such heritage is underestimated. The Susa and Lanzo Valleys, as the rest of Piedmont, are filled with megalithic sites. Some of these are known, while many other of these sites remain knowledge only to sector-buffs; but mainstream institutions do not hold them as subjects of research. Still, many others have been destroyed, though traces can still be found, or such areas fall under negligence, thereby making it impossible to observe and study them.

Yet, our lands are of no less importance to the other is considered as being Celtic, such as Brittany, Ireland or Scotland. They are a match to these other lands in awe; and, above all, have nothing to envy in regards to history and traditions. The great megaliths that exist within the territory of Piedmont are known by relatively few people. These can be found everywhere; equal in splendor to their Breton and Irish cousins.

The most accredited historical sources seem to suggest that the history of the lands begins with the Roman Empire, and apparently, prior to this period nothing of significance had ever occurred - the world was traveled by uncultured barbarians, cavemen who lived at primitive status.

Yet, these "primitive" peoples have left testimony that is so imposing as to not find any explanation concerning its construction. Not only, but they have also left us a rich heritage of myths, legends and jewelry crafts that highlight the grandeur of these cultures.

The heritage of myths and legends of our valleys contains a particularly significant legend - that of the city of Rama. This legend was known up until the 1800s, but it disappeared into nothingness and today there seems to be no apparent trace.

According to this legend, the Valley of Susa contains an enormous megalithic city during the prehistoric times, whose culture supposedly left deep-rooted traces not only in Piedmont, but throughout Europe. In our present day, this myth might bring to mockery; however, researchers from the 1800s make clear reference to this Celtic city, as do the recovered documents of the Roman era. At the moment, research by cross-Alpine archaeologists is trying to assess the possibility regarding the remains of this cyclopean city. The city of Rama is still mentioned in legends belonging to the Susa and Lanzo Valleys. Nonetheless, this myth is never seriously taken into consideration. Why?

The legend has ties to a historical mystery, which regards the myth of Phaeton and the megalithic city of Rama.

Memory of this gargantuan city remains within local traditions, the testimonials of researchers from the 1800s, and from the memoirs of the ancient Roman historians. The megalithic discoveries are the tinder keeping the burning presence alive.

The legend (form the Metamorphoses of Ovid) states that Phaeton supposedly fell on the crossing point of two rivers, in the area that today houses modern day Torino. According to the myth ,the god Phaeton descended from the skies to bring a vast wealth of knowledge to man, such as agriculture, astronomy, smoldering, and alchemy. Just as Vulcan and the Chinese god Houang-Ti, Phaeton was aided by two assistants made of golden metal. He created a kindred of spiritual kings, the Ard-ri, who spread his teachings all across Europe. This influence led to the birth of the great civilization of the Black Sea, which gave rise to, following the deluge of the Mediterranean Sea as mentioned by the myth of Ys, all the Celtic ethnicities.

Before leaving man, the god Phaeton built a large pierced wheel of gold in which he deposited all of his knowledge. At the base of Mount Roc Maol, where the god had dwelled, a temple was founded, which later gave way to city that would develop into what became known as Rama. A city of staggering proportions, which spread from current-day Susa and beyond, all the way to modern Torino. Perhaps the influence of this ancient tradition had given Torino its distinctive identity, given that it is stilled defined as a magical city of high spiritual proportions, a city of culture.

Rama seemed to have been mere fruit of imagination; however, an incredible event that occurred in August 2007 tore Rama from myth to bounce it back into reality – sections of its walls were discovered.

Towering walls similar to those of the Peslagic area of the Circeo. Legend turns into reality. But, then, what meaning could the myth of Phaeton have? Could there be any truth to this myth, as well?

Perhaps it is best to recall the words of Plato in regards to the myth of Phaeton (Dialogues, Timaeus, III): the myths veil historical truths and re the methods of keeping memory of past events, which barbaric humanity is not able to pass down.

Who could have passed down the memory of the Phaeton event? Humanity did not seem to exist at the time of this occurrence. A mystery within the mystery of humanity, which in all likelihood is not brought to our knowledge.

The vast heritage of myths and legends of the Piedmont valleys, the many megalithic discoveries, and, above all, the shocking localization of the “Walls of Rama” have stimulated the Project “Rama Vive”. This project aims at the reclamation of the origins and traditions of the Piedmont valleys.

Research in merit can account for megalithic ruins and oral traditions – mapping of archeological sites that provides visibility on the extension of the interesting historical areas, and a compendium of the oral traditions a customs/uses that are still passed down today.

Nonetheless, it is difficult to navigate among memories, oral traditions, uses and customs without steering into wrong interpretations and subjective spin-offs. Thus, we feel it necessary to distinguish four elements:

1) folklore – often represents the distortion and disinformation of Celtic culture, an example is found in the interpretation of the figure of the masca (witch), the “devil’s bridge” of Lanzo, the chiseled cups in stones, etc. Folklore is often is intertwined with Christian interpretations of ancient Druidic teachings;

2) the traditions of the so-called “ancient religion” – the vast treasure of knowledge, customs, remedies, rites, transmitted firsthand by the ovates of the Druidic order or generational teachings:

3) historical events - relics, historical documents, reference to megalithic sites, etc;

4) the myths of origin - the spiritual baggage at the birth of the universe and man.

It is important that one’s discoveries are shared. We shall make all the discoveries on our path known in real time; and will collaborate with all those who wish to help us gather a heritage that risks being lost forever.

Without knowledge of one’s roots, the future cannot be faced.

Dreamland Park, north of Turin. A reconstruction of the great circle of stones that according to ancient Druid tradition was built by Phaeton in the middle of his two aides golden metal