How a psychopath spots a victim

[bedower]

Re: PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

Quote from: yet another dave on Today at 04:15:38 AM
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that IMO the psychopath's almost magical-seeming ability to pass unnoticed is mainly due to the fact that most people don't know that they exist.

This is reminiscent of the line from 'The Usual Suspects', spoken by Kevin Spacey's character (sorry movie buffs; I've forgotten this character's name), and I paraphrase:

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing people he didn't exist!"

The in-joke of this is that the Spacey character is talking to a policeman inside a police station. And HE is the one the police are looking for!

Incidentally, yet another dave, if you feel that the characters of 'Little Britain' are ott caricatures, what do you make of 'The League of Gentlemen'? All good psychopathologicals, and highly dangerous if they were in real life, imo; Royston Vasey is not a place I'd like to live in, not being local and all that! And it is presented as comedy, so what does that tell you about the scriptwriter(s)?

 

[anart]

Re: PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

This is reminiscent of the line from 'The Usual Suspects', spoken by Kevin Spacey's character (sorry movie buffs; I've forgotten this character's name), and I paraphrase:

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing people he didn't exist!"

Trivia alert: the name of alter-ego of Spacey's character is Kaiser Sose (he goes by the name of Roger Kint ('Verbal') as well).

 

[Annette1]

Re: PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

Successful psychopaths work sideways. What does that mean? It means they operate through influence from the shadows where you will never interact or be able to observe them closely. They like to be 'the power behind the throne'. When you see an incompetent person in a high position, don't bother with the idiot, look who he listens to. ;)

Even then, the really good ones can spin a person in circles. Chances are, you've never met one, because they are that good at hiding themselves. By operating through influence, indirectly, they save most of their energy to deflect, remove, or reduce any chance of discovery. They make themselves masters of these things, as a kind of insulation against discovery.

This is why I don't think you've ever met a successful psychopath.

Thank you, Gimpy. I found this an excellent description!! I like the "sideways" description/explanation. Very helpful.

 

[bedower]

Re: PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

[quote author=anart today] Trivia alert [/quote]

Anart, I don't know whether to laugh or be indignant :/

But yet another dave's remark really did bring to mind that sentence from that film. A large part of Sose's success was that he had fooled the authorities into believing that he was just a made-up character; for a good half of the film, if I remember correctly.

In this thread here 'Important Notes on Psychopathy', Lobaczewski makes the observation that psychopaths also gravitate to the medical profession, including the various branches of mental health. Then another psychologist (can't remember whether it was Hare or Cleckley, maybe neither, sorry ) wrote that the fact psychopaths had reached such high influential positions in all areas meant that they were able to misdirect the general public about psychopaths and true psychopathic behaviour. They were also able to direct research into mental health issues of their choosing, and by that same token withold any funds for a serious study of psychopaths and their behaviour. They made psychopaths disappear; in effect, they convinced the general public that psychopaths didn't exist! That was why yet another dave's remark resonated with me, and led to the movie quote. If 'psychopaths' was substituted for 'the devil'. and the singular personal pronoun changed into the plural, Sose's remark encapsulates what Lobaczewski and the other psychologists were telling us in the above thread. Osit. And why it is so important that we stay alert and aware in ALL our interpersonal relationships; that we might spot any tell-tale signs regarding negative character traits that might point to possible psychopathy. As Laura pointed out, we start under a handicap anyway, because our greatest natural enemy looks just like us.

However, sorry if the comparison seemed trivial. I should have expanded on why dave's remark reminded me of Sose.

Hope I made you laugh, at least.

 

[anart]

Re: PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

Anart, I don't know whether to laugh or be indignant

Laugh would be appropriate - I meant that my input of the character name was trivia... ;)

 

[yet another dave]

Re: PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

Again, that is probably true in the case of most failed psychopaths. But successful ones are another breed entirely.
...
It sounds as though you are describing your garden-variety Narcissist, or at most a fairly incompetent failed Psychopath.

I should probably amend my position then to "failed psychopaths, narcissists and sociopaths are fairly easy to spot". I think I was mainly trying to convey how blindingly obvious a lot of them were in hindsight, once I knew what to look for, and how many clues I'd ignored. Their camouflage was kind of half-hearted, as if they weren't really trying, and the main reason I didn't spot them was because I didn't know there was anything to spot. If I met another of the same "skill level" as the ones I've known previously, I think they'd be fairly obvious.

I agree that with the "puppetmaster" style psychopaths, you probably won't even know what happened, but you can at least watch out for manipulation attempts so that you don't become one of the puppets. I tend to reserve judgement now, instead of thinking "hey what a great guy" when I meet someone who says all the right things, and I'm less ready to give away information that can be used against me, and I try to think before reacting. So, you can probably never spot all of them, but there are things you can do to make yourself less vulnerable.

I've got "Political Ponerology", but (I am embarrassed to admit) I haven't read it yet. It's quite heavy going.

Another useful book is "The Authoritarians" (apologies if you already know about this one). It's available for free download at http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

Incidentally, yet another dave, if you feel that the characters of 'Little Britain' are ott caricatures, what do you make of 'The League of Gentlemen'? All good psychopathologicals, and highly dangerous if they were in real life, imo; Royston Vasey is not a place I'd like to live in, not being local and all that! And it is presented as comedy, so what does that tell you about the scriptwriter(s)?

For me, "The League of Gentlemen" has a completely different feel than "Little Britain". The characters are certainly unpleasant, but there's a kind of "depth" there, an absurd, surreal and very dark humour. "Little Britain" feels more like schoolyard bullying style caricature - we're laughing (if we are) at how ridiculous the characters are, it's got a kind of "sneering" quality. Then again, maybe I'm just reading too much into it because Walliams gives me the creeps. :)

 

[bedower]

Re: PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

[quote author=anart today] I meant that my input of the character name was trivia... [/quote]

Oops! Serious apology needed here. I'm sorry I misunderstood you, anart. Obviously tripped over my own ego there! The dratted thing pops up when you least expect it, osit! But thanks for the name of that character. ;) Interesting that you should know all three of his names...

[quote author=yet another dave today] absurd, surreal and very dark humour [/quote]

Yes, we Brits seem to be rather good at that stuff. I wonder why...

 

[Gimpy]

Re: PREDATOR AWARENESS: Life Preserving Cues

For me, "The League of Gentlemen" has a completely different feel than "Little Britain". The characters are certainly unpleasant, but there's a kind of "depth" there, an absurd, surreal and very dark humour. "Little Britain" feels more like schoolyard bullying style caricature - we're laughing (if we are) at how ridiculous the characters are, it's got a kind of "sneering" quality. Then again, maybe I'm just reading too much into it because Walliams gives me the creeps. :)

Speaking of 'dark humor', I netflixed "The League of Gentlemen" for my Hubby, and he couldn't bear it after five minutes. He said it reminded him too much of "Mad TV", where the humor is often thinly veiled abuse. We've not tried "Little Britain".

Hubby also likes a show from Canada called "Trailer Park Boys", which is another study in 'failed psychopaths'. Each season begins with the main character(s) getting out of jail, and ends with the same character(s) going back to jail.

 

[piranah]

Psychopaths: They Take Advantage of Your Perceptions Be Aware

In general you do not objectively survey your world. Rather, your experiences and expectations influence creation of your mind-sets. Typically we are all quick to form and resist change of our mind. Although neither good nor bad, under certain circumstances this may become problematic. One such circumstances is if you are in the presence of a psychopath.

Perception is based on both awareness and understanding and humans tend to perceive what they expect to, as a result making premature conclusions that are potentially dangerous. A psychopath reaps many rewards from your innocently false perceptions of their true nature.

What you remember depends upon what you believe. The brain does not objectively record data. Instead, memories are subjective interpretations, rarely reinterpreted even when circumstances change. New information becomes assimilated with old, which has more influence on the new than vice versa. People tend to remember positives and forget negatives. Psychopaths are experts at reinforcing their positives while having you brush past their negatives.

Most cognitive functioning occurs outside your conscious awareness, including perception, information processing, memory, and some methods of decision making. You make decisions by the intuitive and/or the rational process.

Intuition falls between the automatic operations of perception and the deliberate processes of reasoning. Intuition is not a paranormal ability or a form of extrasensory perception, although it operates at a below-consciousness level. However, it is still based on normal sensory input.

Automatic and effortless, intuition also is fast and powerful and learned slowly. Because of its implicit nature, intuition is difficult to control or modify, can be influenced by emotion, and often is error prone. Typically, intuition involves the use of cognitive shortcuts. By contrast, reasoning is slow and requires effort, vulnerable to interference, and easily disrupted. But, it is flexible and controllable and can overrule intuition.

Different situations require different types of judgment. With unreliable and incomplete data or under chaotic and uncertain conditions, intuitive decision making is preferable. Therefore, with reliable and adequate data and time for proper analysis, reasoning produces the best results.

Keeping all of the foregoing in mind, psychopaths take advantage of the fact that most of us do not assess them impartially. Practice remaining impartial and open-minded in an effort to accurately assess when a psychopath is in your presence.

If your intuition is telling you that something is not quite right with an individual, take a step back and take your time with an effort of slow reasoning.

Objectively and tenaciously review your negative perceptions of an individual in an effort to neutralize a potential psychopath’s advantage. You may need to fight that natural desire to “see the good” in everybody.

That is the point to Predator Awareness ~ battling preconceived perceptions that may lead you to immeasurable harm.


I got this information from the Predator Awareness Site. Mind & Behavioral Cues of Psychopathic Predators is how it underlines it's title. The site owner says she has experience of a psychopath and does not wish to expose him/her but I found her advice helpful. I too believe you should be very open to making your own judgement and be aware the psychopath will use your perceptions one step ahead each time and turn you against his/her victim.

My own personal psychopath as I call her worked me for years and would disappear for a few months I would find something going wrong socially and be trying to work it out and then she would phone me up when ever I got too close to one of her strands of manipulation. She did it from a distance mostly. So before I realise what was happening I responded to these telephone calls each time thinking ok she wants to be friends and resolve our issues. But when she came around it felt weird. I realise now she never let me into her life or her business. She only wanted to find out mine and who my friends were and more importantly who I had fallen out with or disliked. Then she took this information and wove a intricate quilt of social bullying. Each time a friend fell away or I got a wierd look from someone I never linked it to her only after a while did the penny drop. When I tried to make people see what was going on I came over as paranoid and the crazy one. So please if someone comes to you with bad talk about someone else. Please make your own judgement and seek to find out both sides of the equation. You may unwittingly be aiding a psychopath devour his victim.

 

[kannas]

Re: Psychopaths: They Take Advantage of Your Perceptions Be Aware

Piranah, did the site owner write this piece? It is hard to follow as the wording/meaning is at times ambiguous. I can understand one can write in an ambiguous way because I've done it, but mercy, this is a mish-mash that isn't clear in its directive and intent if it is to relate to predator awareness.

I do agree with this part of the article:

Keeping all of the foregoing in mind, psychopaths take advantage of the fact that most of us do not assess them impartially. Practice remaining impartial and open-minded in an effort to accurately assess when a psychopath is in your presence.

If your intuition is telling you that something is not quite right with an individual, take a step back and take your time with an effort of slow reasoning.

Objectively and tenaciously review your negative perceptions of an individual in an effort to neutralize a potential psychopath’s advantage. You may need to fight that natural desire to “see the good” in everybody.

I've been reading a lot lately about predators and psychopathy, and it is all from Laura's writings, SOTT, here at the Cass forum, and the suggested top psychology books.

One excellent article at SOTT and so very detailed and clear:

The Trick of the Psychopath's Trade: Make Us Believe that Evil Comes from Others

I still have a lot of reading to do with a huge stack of books dealing with psychopathy including Mask of Sanity - Hervey Cleckley and Political Ponerology - Andrzej Lobaczewski.

My own personal psychopath as I call her worked me for years and would disappear for a few months I would find something going wrong socially and be trying to work it out and then she would phone me up when ever I got too close to one of her strands of manipulation. She did it from a distance mostly. So before I realise what was happening I responded to these telephone calls each time thinking ok she wants to be friends and resolve our issues. But when she came around it felt weird. I realise now she never let me into her life or her business. She only wanted to find out mine and who my friends were and more importantly who I had fallen out with or disliked. Then she took this information and wove a intricate quilt of social bullying. Each time a friend fell away or I got a wierd look from someone I never linked it to her only after a while did the penny drop. When I tried to make people see what was going on I came over as paranoid and the crazy one. So please if someone comes to you with bad talk about someone else. Please make your own judgement and seek to find out both sides of the equation. You may unwittingly be aiding a psychopath devour his victim.

I hear you, piranah. And it hurts too. I know. I was a friend to a psychopath for a good while. I refused to consider him psychopathic and I always believed (perceived) he had a shining light within his spirit. I ignored clanging warning bells within me, what a close partner said of him, the way he had nastily treated others and discarded them, the horrid way he treated and used me, and all for his effortless lies, charm, and 'god' status. I, too, for now do not care to talk about it or disclose him. I'm just coming out of the fog and I am raw. Some days I am fine then something triggers and more realization opens for me. I still hurt.

This morning, I was reading in the SOTT article I cited above, and even more realization came about. Indeed, this was the way he was.... always creating the new realities.

The Trick of the Psychopath's Trade: Make Us Believe that Evil Comes from Others

They aren't really lying - they're creating "new realities." Nothing of what we call reality is real to them. When a normal human being talks about a chair, the reference is to a chair that sits there on its own legs. It's there whether anyone sees it or not, whether anyone mentions it or not, whether anyone "declares" it to be there or not. It has its own sovereign existence. But that is not so for the true psychopath. The psychopath with his/her infantile internal structure cannot comprehend that anything else exists on its own separate from them. It is only their acknowledgement that makes it real, and they only acknowledge what is significant to them in terms of what they want, what will make them feel good.

When a normal human demands that the declarations of the psychopath should be evaluated, the psychopath will declare that the one making such a demand has no integrity which really means that their position - the psychopath's declaration - is not being supported!

From the psychopathic point of view, the world is like a holodeck. They "declare" things into being. Everything is a hologram. They program the holograms. They interact with them in any way they choose. They have them under total control. When they decide to cancel a hologram, it vanishes.

A hologram is not supposed to think for itself. A hologram is not supposed to measure, evaluate, appraise, etc. Most importantly, a hologram is not supposed to critique its master.

When this does happen, they first chastise it to bring it back into line. If that doesn't work, they "vanish" it. And if they must kill it to do so, that's what happens.

Experience has shown no matter what we say, no matter what we point out, no matter how much evidence is given, it has no meaning for psychopaths. They have one goal: to fool us into classifying them as normal humans so they can continue to deceive us, control us and use us for their own power and glory because that is what makes them feel good.

 

[Buddy]

Yesterday, I was reading a post in which the poster mentioned the "I, Psychopath" video and something about psychopaths and how they spot a victim. Today, I can't find that post no matter what I do, so since I reviewed the video in order to supply the missing info for the poster, I decided to put it here so that maybe it will be noticed.

Source: _http://blip.tv/file/2268740

It's at 35:30

Researcher Susan Brock mentions something that suspected psychopath Ted Bundy stated:

Bundy could tell a victim by the tilt of her head as she walked.

Also, both arms would not be synchronized with both legs while walking (in other words, at least one arm would be out of synch with the walking rhythm of the leg on that same side of the body).

Sorry, that's all that was mentioned, but a few minutes later, Sam V. had some comments that he ended with "the great secret of bullys":


Sam V, slips coldly and easily into the third person as he describes what would have been happening with Ian while he (Sam) bullied Ian in the hotel lobby earlier (it's around 38:00):

"You're body is flooded instantly with adrenaline and it's derivatives, like norenephrine. Now when these hormones pervade the bloodstream, you're brain reacts. It shuts down certain centers and activates others. This is called the stress reaction. Or stress syndrome action. Then when the abuse recedes, the adrenaline levels begin to drop. As they drop, the entire system goes into mayhem. So what bullies usually do...they start and stop, start and stop. That achieves the maximal stress syndrome. And this is the great secret of bullying: never overdo it...small doses...the victim will do the rest."


Hope this is helpful. Since this is a new thread, if someone has anything to add to this topic please feel free to do so. :)

 

[thevenusian]

This may be the reference you were looking for Buddy-

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=14978.msg120427#msg120427

 

[sid]

Yes, I actually downloaded that video to keep a copy around. Highly recommended watch for everyone here on the forum. What particularly struck out for me is how his wife still gets along despite knowing everything about him.

Here is the actual thread where I saw the link originally.
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=13420.0

-Sid

 

[Buddy]

This may be the reference you were looking for Buddy-

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=14978.msg120427#msg120427

Thanks, thevenusian. That's the one! I've left a note linking back here. Now we've got some crosslinks to make some of this stuff easier for all to find. :)

 

[Laura]

One wonders, of course, if an individual were to have their posture, gait and other body movements analyzed, and worked on correction, if this would have a somatapsychic effect. That is, would it help to alleviate whatever is inside them that makes the act/look like a victim? You know, kind of like "stand up straight and tall, move with confidence" and it will make you feel straight and tall and confident?