How Not To Be

eternusphoenix said:
I never wanted to be born. I've been taking stupid risks and playing with the lives of others all my life based out of my not wanting to be here. I am constantly disassociating.
<snip>

The only thing I have really been sincere about in this life is the desire to blink out of existence.

I've known other people who have expressed the same sentiment. I actually felt somewhat that way myself for a period of my life when I was very unhappy. I am convinced now that it was due to brain chemical imbalance due to diet. And in fact, four other people I know who felt the same pretty much all their lives came out of it after changing their diets. I know that sounds silly and simplistic, but there it is. The only thing that kept me going to the point where I learned about the diet issues was the fact that I had children and needed to be there for them. All through those years I tried all kinds of crutches, but such things are only temporary and fleeting and they never get to the root of that core feeling that one is really unhappy to find the world is as it is. And in the end, it was just chemicals.
 
Laura said:
eternusphoenix said:
I never wanted to be born. I've been taking stupid risks and playing with the lives of others all my life based out of my not wanting to be here. I am constantly disassociating.
<snip>

The only thing I have really been sincere about in this life is the desire to blink out of existence.

I've known other people who have expressed the same sentiment. I actually felt somewhat that way myself for a period of my life when I was very unhappy. I am convinced now that it was due to brain chemical imbalance due to diet. And in fact, four other people I know who felt the same pretty much all their lives came out of it after changing their diets. I know that sounds silly and simplistic, but there it is. The only thing that kept me going to the point where I learned about the diet issues was the fact that I had children and needed to be there for them. All through those years I tried all kinds of crutches, but such things are only temporary and fleeting and they never get to the root of that core feeling that one is really unhappy to find the world is as it is. And in the end, it was just chemicals.

I've just been discussing education with a friend on Facebook and how miserable I was throughout secondary education in particular, as well as failing to get into university. It reminded me of a section of Primal Body, Primal Mind where the author talks about undiagnosed gluten sensitivity and its effects on peoples' performance.

It's from Chapter 24: Feeding Your Brain Right.

The study she mentions can be read here: http://houstonceliacs.org/Research/R8%20UndiagnosedCD.pdf

The underachievement in education and working life observed in subjects with silent coeliac disease is a new and intriguing finding and may be related to the increased prevalence of depressive and disruptive behavioural disorders described in teenagers with untreated coeliac disease. Our findings add a new ingredient to the ongoing discussion regarding the need for population screening for silent coeliac disease.

Early school performance of sCD subjects did not
differ from that of the control group, with similar
percentages graduating from primary and secondary
school. In further studies, however, the academic
performance of sCD subjects was inferior to that of
the controls, the difference reaching statistical significance (Table IV). Employment rate as well as
occupational classification and socio-economic status (Table V) suggested a uniform tendency to
underachievement by the sCD subjects.

So it looks pretty certain that chemical imbalance is a major factor in most mental/physical/spiritual ailments and certain foods affect body chemistry more than others, gluten being one of the major problem "foods."
 
anart said:
Deedlet said:
I have just caught up with this thread and I hope it's not too late to chime in with some thoughts...

I'd like to share an observation I made when I first met you at the Barcelona conference.

To tell you the truth, I had a VERY high expectation of you before I met you. I felt so excited to meet the famous, kind , loving and most helpful Dr. Psyche. I realize that the day of the conference was very hectic and busy for all involved but I wanted to take the opportunity to speak with you about a very private matter I had in the back of my mind. As I approached you, you seemed kind of stand-offish as if my approaching you with my question was the last thing you wanted to deal with. And although you answered, it was as if it was a HUGE chore for you to even think about it. Fair enough, I thought she is very busy. But deep down, I thought your attitude was not at all what a true, caring doctor who is doing the Work should be like.

Deedlet, this is more an example of you lacking external consideration than anything else. You had these expectations of another human being and you basically demanded that they be met. When they were not (for any reason and the reason rarely matters in such cases) you take it very personally and decide that the person has:

d said:
a huge self-importance program.

There could be any of a million reasons why Psyche came across the way she did to you and it could be simply that a one day conference in Barcelona was not the appropriate time for her to address your personal health concern - but the core here is that you expected her to be a certain way and since she didn't meet your personal expectations, she was "wrong". That's not objective and it's not really helpful because at the end of the day, it's all about you.

Had you put your subjective expectations of her aside before you met her, this entire post likely would not have been written because you would not have been so offended at not having your imaginary image of "Dr. Psyche" satisfied in reality. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but the point is that just because you create an image of someone in your mind does not mean that they are obliged to satisfy your expectations.

I admit that what you write is true anart, and this was my problem of putting too high of an expectation and projecting onto psyche. I had done the same thing to Laura when I first met her in 2004 and I think that's my program that I need to work on. When I was on my way to the Barcelona conference I kept telling myself, try not to project and have such high expectations... but I couldn't help but being excited nonetheless.

When I met Psyche it wasn't anything about her that was rude or anything. In fact she was all-smiles but I guess rushed and busy which was understandable given the venue. In that, I also agree that it was my lack of external consideration that caused me to ask her about my medical problem.

But what I found was her attitude was not like others there, and it's something I just can't explain. I guess I just didn't get or give a good first impression in our interaction on that day. I later shrugged it off as me being stupid and probably seeing something that was not there because she was a mod and lived at the Chateau. I have since read a lot more including this:

Laura said:
People should remember that just because someone is associated with us here, or have spent time with us here, it does not automatically make that person some sort of wise and advanced individual. The fact is, very often, people come here because they are trying to escape from life and they think we won't figure it out. Or they are trying to worm their way into a position of dominance and think I was born yesterday. And still other situations involve people we feel are sincere but who are having a great difficulty of some sort and they come to spend time working on themselves. Others come because they really ARE pretty wise and we just simply enjoy their company. And some come simply because they are working on a project that we are supporting, though we know in advance that they are not, and never will be, able to do "The Work." But their expertise or services are needed.

So, it's not a good idea to make assumptions. Each and every one of you should evaluate your own interactions with such individuals and if you get a red flag, you should tell us about it.

which put things more into perspective for me in terms of how I put such high expectations on mods and psyche at the time of the conference.

In a way I thought I had 'blinked' something, but since my projection was a factor there, perhaps it was just me after all.

Psyche said:
Deedlet, apologies if I came across as off. I valued your willingness to discuss your problem openly and I was glad to have done some research before that I could offer you. How many suffer unnecessarily by not bringing their problems up due to twisted programs?

No apology necessary Psyche. It seems we were both off on this one. My own lack of networking and twisted programs have contributed to unnecessarily suffering before, and I'm sorry for my lack of external consideration towards you that night. Because Laura is right, the setting was just not right and I should have known better. But we live in and learn right?
 
Laura said:
...I've known other people who have expressed the same sentiment. I actually felt somewhat that way myself for a period of my life when I was very unhappy. I am convinced now that it was due to brain chemical imbalance due to diet...

When you are brought up on gluten-containing foods and you are sensitive or allergic to it, that is entirely possible, although not the only possibility by any means.

Now, kids wash all that gluten down with sugar, and they are developing "adult" if not "senior" diseases. Why wouldn't it affect their brains? It's really not even surprising, once you see it.
 
Deedlet said:
I admit that what you write is true anart, and this was my problem of putting too high of an expectation and projecting onto psyche. I had done the same thing to Laura when I first met her in 2004 and I think that's my program that I need to work on. When I was on my way to the Barcelona conference I kept telling myself, try not to project and have such high expectations... but I couldn't help but being excited nonetheless.

It's one thing to be excited about spending time with people and it's an entirely different thing to project all sorts of fantastical nonsense onto people. When you do that, you really aren't even paying attention to the real human being they are - they don't exist for you, only this image you have of them exists and it really, really sells them short.

d said:
When I met Psyche it wasn't anything about her that was rude or anything. In fact she was all-smiles but I guess rushed and busy which was understandable given the venue.

That's interesting since your earlier input made it sound like she was an ogre or something toward you.

d said:
In that, I also agree that it was my lack of external consideration that caused me to ask her about my medical problem.

Just bad timing.

d said:
But what I found was her attitude was not like others there, and it's something I just can't explain.

Not everyone is alike, but I think you already explained it, she didn't "live up" to your "expectations".

d said:
I guess I just didn't get or give a good first impression in our interaction on that day. I later shrugged it off as me being stupid and probably seeing something that was not there because she was a mod and lived at the Chateau. I have since read a lot more including this:

I don't think you shrugged it off, I think you held quite tightly onto it until you could unleash it here.



[quote author=d]

which put things more into perspective for me in terms of how I put such high expectations on mods and psyche at the time of the conference. [/quote]

Yet, you still lashed out at her in this thread when you perceived it as being 'okay' to do so.

d said:
In a way I thought I had 'blinked' something, but since my projection was a factor there, perhaps it was just me after all.

Considering your state of projection at the time, it sounds like nothing short of a hands on healing would have satisfied you.

You see, it comes down to the fact that you do a disservice to people when you project all sorts of unrealistic qualities on to them. I know - I deal with people's expectations every time people meet me for the first time in "real life". In my case, most people expect me to be some harsh taskmaster and I've lost count of the number of times people have said, "wow, you're so nice!!" as if there is any reason that I wouldn't be. All of us here are human beings - with all that entails - when you start thinking we're not you not only do us a disservice, you do yourself a disservice because the true genius behind everything we do here is that humanity. All of us, including you, are normal human beings doing the best we can and we couldn't do it without each other. Once that really sinks in, you realize that it's up to you to do the best you can because if other normal humans can do it, so can you, if you so choose. It's all in the choosing, though. fwiw.
 
Deedlet said:
When I met Psyche it wasn't anything about her that was rude or anything. In fact she was all-smiles but I guess rushed and busy which was understandable given the venue. In that, I also agree that it was my lack of external consideration that caused me to ask her about my medical problem.
...
No apology necessary Psyche. It seems we were both off on this one. My own lack of networking and twisted programs have contributed to unnecessarily suffering before, and I'm sorry for my lack of external consideration towards you that night. Because Laura is right, the setting was just not right and I should have known better. But we live in and learn right?

I could be off here and I wasn't there to witness the interaction, but in this case it actually sounds to me like only you were off, Deedlet. Instead of seeing that time as an opportunity for connection and getting to know Psyche better on an in-person basis (or just mutual fun and hanging out), you saw it as an opportunity to get free medical advice rather than networking about your health issue or just asking her in a PM (if it was really personal and private for you) so she could deal with it on her own time. And considering the venue, which I'm sure took a huge amount of work to set up and so probably everyone was tired and also excited to get to know forum members in person a little better, it really sounds like a whole lot of internal consideration on your part to forgo networking about a health issue and choose to ask her in person at that time.

The rest of your response also sounds, to me, a bit like you're trying to "pass the buck" and like you're holding onto being right in your projection (what you "felt" or what was your "intuition").

Just my take, FWIW.
 
Thank you for your feedbaack anart and Foxx. You both make some very good points that I need to think more and meditate on. Also, as soon as I get a chance I think I will make a thread about the problem I brought to psyche. I think it is time I get over my shy program and share.
 
anart said:
Exactly. I think it's really important to recognize the fact that when you really want to Work on yourself - sincerely and passionately - there is no need for a vacation from those who help you do that. It's really all about the Aim in your life. Vacations in the way you seem to be thinking about them, Gimpy, would rather act like buffers on the sincere person trying to work on themselves and that's the opposite of the Aim.

For the pathological types, though, vacations are perfect because they can wallow in whatever they want for a while before returning to put the mask back up.

I know is late but I want to add what I've observed. I see that we can't take vacations in the work, because it is a growing up process where whenever you want to take a vacation, is like trying to forget what you were doing and pretend to be as mechanical as you were before, pretty similar to go downstairs, but when you return to the work you need to work again on all those things you supposedly have worked on.
 
I remember speaking to Psyche the few times I visited France though the years and she was very helpful.
Sometimes I could tell she was busy thinking about something else... so I waited until later to ask the question.

Shyness is a hard program to crack! Sometimes it masquerades in odd ways. Example: I have a friend that used to be a bartender. He could talk to everyone with ease at that job. However, in his current job at an office, he told me he has a hard time talking to people. I was surprised!

I was thinking more about it and realized how someone as shy as him was so "social" in a bar environment. In the bar he had no real investment in really getting to know someone and them getting to know him. So he had nothing to lose to be friendly- and tips to gain!

Shyness in his case, is a fear of rejection. "If they knew who I really am, they wouldn't want to talk to me" Or some other nonsense that we run in our heads due to programs.
 
eternusphoenix said:
I know I have a problem. Thing is, until I really truly decide that I want to be here and live this life... nothing and no-one can help me and I can't help anyone.

This, however has helped me to see that others are going through very similar situations.

Perhaps if you allow yourself to focus on this realization, then your desire to do anything to detach yourself from the self-destruction feelings will strengthen. Knowing that not only you can't help others, but also seeing that you are not alone, and that it if you take at least the very first step to do something about it, you would well be on your way to offer some hope for others fighting their self-destruction demons. Sometimes this means just changing your diet, so you can allow yourself to re-wire your brain or just be able to go through the day without abrupt mood changes triggered by inflammatory foods. Something as simple as this would make you feel better and it would be a statement to the Universe of your choice to do something. Speaking of commitments:

"Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative and creation, there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance which no man could have dreamed would have come his way. Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now."

Perhaps your realization and you phrasing it here is the first order of things towards this commitment? I find it interesting that your username is eternusphoenix. The Phoenix is part of the Scorpio archetype, which at its basest form, the scorpion, is self-destructive. I can't find any quote that doesn't have some over-made astrological interpretation of questionable taste, but here is a brief synopsis of the symbolism in the scorpion, snake, eagle, phoenix and even dove which are part of the archetype:

_http://www.scorpioseason.com/2012/06/scorpio-the-scorpion-the-eagle-and-the-phoenix/

The Sun enters Scorpio as Autumn advances. It is a time of impending hibernation, but even as the land is chilled, the seeds within the earth promise eventual reawakening. This is the Season of Scorpio, perhaps the most complex of all Zodiac Signs.

It is significant that Scorpio has not one symbol, but several: the Scorpion, the Eagle and the Phoenix, each contributing distinctive qualities to the Sign’s nature. Aggression and instinct are provided courtesy of the Scorpion aspect, illustrated by way of destructive behavior, a viciously competitive personality with a tendency to be violent and cruel. The Eagle aspect provides a shrewd insight possessed by most Scorpio natives – they have the ability to see what others miss. They discern hidden motives, ferreting out secret flaws and vulnerabilities. Indeed, due to the thirst for power and and mastery, those governed by this Zodiac Sign are not above exploiting the weaknesses of others to their own advantage. It has been said that counted among the most important tasks of those ruled by Scorpio is the necessity to rid themselves of the tendency to be judgmental, learning to temper their insight with compassion. Individuals who can manage this difficult assignment manifest the virtues of the Phoenix, the redemptive third aspect of this Sign. Much like the Phoenix, those governed by Scorpio are survivors. In an emotional sense, they may perish in the ashes of their own destructive nature, but they can also transcend and transform.

Wouldn't you say that even though we can get caught in self-destructive paths, that we have the Phoenix in mind means that we have not given up?

ig-16-25b_medium_1326254014jracoe.jpg

_http://exhibitions.slv.vic.gov.au/love-and-devotion/zoom-image/hoopoe-and-birds

The Hoopoe tells the birds about the Simurgh
From a manuscript of ʿAttar, Mantiq al-Tayr (Conference of the birds), dated AH 898 (1493–94 AD)
Bodleian Library, University of Oxford, MS Elliott 246, fol 25v

This beautifully painted illustration is placed early in the narrative in which the Hudhud, or Hoopoe, tells the assembled birds about the Simurgh and tries to persuade them to journey with him to find it.

The artist has placed the magnificently plumed Simurgh in the picture, so that the viewer can see what the Hoopoe is describing, even though at this stage the birds have never seen the mythical creature.

In a clever play on words, 30 birds (si murgh in Persian) achieve their goal after a lengthy journey only to realise that they were the Simurgh all along; divinity lay within each of them.

I changed my avatar to the above because the one of Psyche that I had was driving me nuts. She was lost, unable to see herself, period. And it was a reminder of what I was doing! Anyway, I changed my avatar and I like this one better. But now, I definitely got the book and look forward to read it.

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Conference_of_the_Birds

The Conference of the Birds (Persian: منطق الطیر‎, Mantiqu 't-Tayr, 1177) is a book of poems in Persian by Farid ud-Din Attar of approximately 4500 lines.

In the poem, the birds of the world gather to decide who is to be their king, as they have none. The hoopoe, the wisest of them all, suggests that they should find the legendary Simorgh, a mythical Persian bird roughly equivalent to the western phoenix. The hoopoe leads the birds, each of whom represent a human fault which prevents man from attaining enlightenment. When the group of thirty birds finally reach the dwelling place of the Simorgh, all they find is a lake in which they see their own reflection.

Besides being one of the most celebrated examples of Persian poetry, this book relies on a clever word play between the words Simorgh – a mysterious bird in Iranian mythology which is a symbol often found in sufi literature, and similar to the phoenix bird – and "si morgh" – meaning "thirty birds" in Persian.

It was in China, late one moonless night,
The Simorgh first appeared to mortal sight –
He let a feather float down through the air,
And rumours of its fame spread everywhere; [1]

Its most famous section is:

Come you lost Atoms to your Centre draw,
And be the Eternal Mirror that you saw:
Rays that have wander'd into Darkness wide
Return and back into your Sun subside

The story recounts the longing of a group of birds who desire to know the great Simorgh, and who, under the guidance of a leader bird, start their journey toward the land of Simorgh. One by one, they drop out of the journey, each offering an excuse and unable to endure the journey. Each bird has a special significance, and a corresponding didactic fault. The guiding bird is the hoopoe, while the nightingale symbolizes the lover. The parrot is seeking the fountain of immortality, not God and the peacock symbolizes the "fallen soul" who is in alliance with Satan.

The birds must cross seven valleys in order to find the Simorgh: Talab (Yearning), Eshq (Love), Marifat (Gnosis), Istighnah (Detachment), Tawheed (Unity of God), Hayrat (Bewilderment) and, finally, Fuqur and Fana (Selflessness and Oblivion in God). These represent the stations that a Sufi or any individual must pass through to realize the true nature of God.

Within the larger context of the story of the journey of the birds, Attar masterfully tells the reader many didactic short, sweet stories in captivating poetic style. Eventually only thirty birds remain as they finally arrive in the land of Simorgh – all they see there are each other and the reflection of the thirty birds in a lake – not the mythical Simorgh. It is the Sufi doctrine that God is not external or separate from the universe, rather is the totality of existence. The thirty birds seeking the Simorgh realise that Simorgh is nothing more than their transcendent totality. The idea of God within is an idea intrinsic to most interpretations of Sufism. As the birds realize the truth, they now reach the station of Baqa (Subsistence) which sits atop the Mountain Qaf.

I found here another quote of what the Hoopoe says:

So long as we do not die to ourselves,
and so long as we identify with someone or something,
we shall never be free. [...]

Strive to discover the mystery before life is taken from you.
If while living you fail to find yourself, to know yourself,
how will you be able to understand
the secret of your existence when you die?
 
Orange Scorpion said:
In all honesty, I want to say that I also approached to Psyche at the end of the Barcelona's conference and she treated me appropriately and warmly. Indeed, I was who closed the conversation, not wanting to disturb more Psyche because I thought she would have to attend more people, but she seemed willing to continue attending my questions.

Divide By Zero said:
I remember speaking to Psyche the few times I visited France though the years and she was very helpful.
Sometimes I could tell she was busy thinking about something else... so I waited until later to ask the question.

I like being helpful :)

Deedlet said:
Also, as soon as I get a chance I think I will make a thread about the problem I brought to psyche. I think it is time I get over my shy program and share.

I think that is a great idea. I have pondered about it and will also like to contribute. Think of the millions of those afflicted that are now suffering unnecessarily and you will see all your shy programs melting away ;)
 
I think Psyche is very courageous and all the people who is giving mirror also. Myself I am a very shy person and I don't talk very much about my problems that's why I think that all people who accept to be mirrored are extremely courageous. And their courage is a lesson, for everybody.

I try to never judge someone in any circumstances because judging someone is always projecting. I do this exercise every day, with everyone I meet. In this forum also. We are all humans beings trying to grow, everyone at their rhythm. Some are like turtles, like me. But what I learn is that when someone is mirrored I am in this mirror also. Thanks!
 
anart said:
You see, it comes down to the fact that you do a disservice to people when you project all sorts of unrealistic qualities on to them. I know - I deal with people's expectations every time people meet me for the first time in "real life". In my case, most people expect me to be some harsh taskmaster and I've lost count of the number of times people have said, "wow, you're so nice!!" as if there is any reason that I wouldn't be. All of us here are human beings - with all that entails - when you start thinking we're not you not only do us a disservice, you do yourself a disservice because the true genius behind everything we do here is that humanity. All of us, including you, are normal human beings doing the best we can and we couldn't do it without each other. Once that really sinks in, you realize that it's up to you to do the best you can because if other normal humans can do it, so can you, if you so choose. It's all in the choosing, though. fwiw.
This to me is absolutely spot on and an essential understanding, thank you for this Anart. :)
 
Loreta said:
We are all humans beings trying to grow, everyone at their rhythm. Some are like turtles, like me. But what I learn is that when someone is mirrored I am in this mirror also. Thanks!

My thoughts exactly. A mirror for one is a mirror for all.
 
Mrs.Tigersoap said:
Loreta said:
We are all humans beings trying to grow, everyone at their rhythm. Some are like turtles, like me. But what I learn is that when someone is mirrored I am in this mirror also. Thanks!

My thoughts exactly. A mirror for one is a mirror for all.

Definitely!
 

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