How to Carry On? How to Wake Others?
- Thread starter Nell-Li
- Start date
Roel, I've read all of the previous posts on this thread, and I came by the most of the thoughts/ideas/advice (don't really know how to call it) I found there by myself in my previous speculations on this topic.
I've passed various "stages" while doing that, from believing that I should do nothing to accusing myself for being coward not to screaming the "cosmic truths" on the main squares of the capitals all over the world, just to figure out that there's probably no "the right answer" or magical formula to solve this nor any other problem. Now I "just" have to bring together what I know with my head and what I feel.
Only recently I've realized that people who had the biggest effect on me were not the one telling me to do this or that, but those who inspired me just the way they lived their life.
So I guess it's my best bet to tattoo this in my mind and continue to work on myself, hoping that in one point I'll be able to inspire someone...
I've passed various "stages" while doing that, from believing that I should do nothing to accusing myself for being coward not to screaming the "cosmic truths" on the main squares of the capitals all over the world, just to figure out that there's probably no "the right answer" or magical formula to solve this nor any other problem. Now I "just" have to bring together what I know with my head and what I feel.
Only recently I've realized that people who had the biggest effect on me were not the one telling me to do this or that, but those who inspired me just the way they lived their life.
So I guess it's my best bet to tattoo this in my mind and continue to work on myself, hoping that in one point I'll be able to inspire someone...
ive been there trying to wake people up to the madness going on
pushed a lot of people away,
forcing things onto them they dont want to here shattering there illusion is NOT the way to go
drove me mad how people couldnt see whats obvious corruption everywhere
but they choose not to see even if its pointed out
you will NEVER EVER wake someone up who doesnt want to be
it might seem like there taking what you say onboard but they always go back
to sleep, save your energy
unless there asking say nothing this i learned the hard way
pushed a lot of people away,
forcing things onto them they dont want to here shattering there illusion is NOT the way to go
drove me mad how people couldnt see whats obvious corruption everywhere
but they choose not to see even if its pointed out
you will NEVER EVER wake someone up who doesnt want to be
it might seem like there taking what you say onboard but they always go back
to sleep, save your energy
unless there asking say nothing this i learned the hard way
liam1310 said:
This is so true, and it's so sad. Worse if it's the people close to you. You can hint, give them articles that aren't too alarming, and hope they ask for more information. Usually they don't. In the end though, you may have to let them go to find their own way, which may be the long way around. Forget the big questions even. I've seen this with simple things like better health. You can see so clearly what could be done to help someone feel better in their body, but if it conflicts with the mainstream message, they just can't go there. And there's nothing you can do except hope that when they've suffered enough they might remember the name of the book you told them about.
You do have to wait till there is a question, that's our lesson and as you say, it's a hard one. :(
cubbex
The Living Force
I have the idea that to awake someone, you need to first do need a sort of psychological profile. This way you won't commit the typical error of gaining an enemy or hurting someone.
Then, I'd copy the FOTCM group. Build a house, a house that works like the room of someone inside a house. This will be a room inside society, it will be like your temple sort of constructed by your knowledge. Like you have a total life style based on that knowledge inside that house that helps the outsider to learn about the new life style being totally in a place, where he/she can work the inner potential. If someone gets to live with you and is capable of getting along that life style, then I guess that person ask to be awoken you can help.
But it seems difficult if you are alone, and if you lack knowledge about pathological individuals. As, I find that is not totally correct when you want to help someone, if that person did not ask first. You are helping to relief that soup of guilt and fear, but at the same time you are trying to overcome someone's limits and rhythm.
Then, I'd copy the FOTCM group. Build a house, a house that works like the room of someone inside a house. This will be a room inside society, it will be like your temple sort of constructed by your knowledge. Like you have a total life style based on that knowledge inside that house that helps the outsider to learn about the new life style being totally in a place, where he/she can work the inner potential. If someone gets to live with you and is capable of getting along that life style, then I guess that person ask to be awoken you can help.
But it seems difficult if you are alone, and if you lack knowledge about pathological individuals. As, I find that is not totally correct when you want to help someone, if that person did not ask first. You are helping to relief that soup of guilt and fear, but at the same time you are trying to overcome someone's limits and rhythm.
moodygoodcapn
A Disturbance in the Force
Waking up others is a slippery slope for anyone I would assume. For me personally, I struggle with an older sister who I grew up admiring while she openly despised me. Now I see her as deeply asleep, in front of the TV. One thing I realized however, is that posing questions, ' ever wonder why....' or some such opening to bring up an issue can be effective. I suppose it's kind of child psychology in a way, but when you can get someone to wonder about something it's much more powerful than just telling them, or exposing them to info. that they didn't ask for.
Corvus
Dagobah Resident
It s been a while since I was here on the forum, about 4 months. Did not have much time for anything since I went to police academy. Your whole day is planned from 5:30 am to 10 pm. At 5:30 you wake up then we have running, if it is raining we do not go. After that you run to breakfast and then you have room control, cleaning of sectors and alignment in front of a flag and hymn, and then you go to school at about 8 am to about 1:30 pm, or from 2 pm to 7 pm. Prior to school or after it you have 2 hours of physical training three times a week. So after the dinner that ends at 8 pm or 8:30 you have free time to 10 pm when it is a sleep time. Then you have to study and you are too tired for anything after all of that, so I often studied to 3 am, sometimes 4 am, having 2-3-4 hours of sleep when I have to study for tests and verbal tests.
Physical training is useless because they test you in key-locks that are not applicable in real situation, with handcuffs and we also run a lot, do pushups and similar strength exercises. Final test is running for 2400 m under 11:07 min, for A you have to have under 9 min, 13 dips-es to fist for pass and 25 for A, 38 abs on a bench with a bar on back of your neck for A, and you do training ground with obstacles like in the army under 3 min and something seconds for pass, and under 2 min. for A. They raised physical conditions for a lot in reflection to prior generations. Training ground is most hardest for all because of walking on bars with your hands and making full circle with your body on a bar, and it was removed few years back because one guy fell from it and became handicapped, and many broke something. One girl from our section fell and we thought she broke her leg but it was only sprain ankle.
It is harder then in army because there you at least do only physical exercises and here you have to study also and you have time for nothing, not even for that. But no one asks you how you manage it. Food is really bad, I do not go to breakfasts but eat what I bring from home for breakfast or I am fasting till the lunch because you get bread and dairy products or chocolate layers like nutella to put on bread, for lunch and dinner I eat but you get one meat piece and potato or rice, salad, and that is what I got because I and one guy that is gluten sensitive brought doctor affirmation on paper that we are gluten sensitive and only 2 of us of whole academy. Others eat more pasta and carbs like in chocolates and chocolate bars they give them. There is a market but there is no fresh meals, that is meat to buy, only that processed dry meat and fruits. That s why others look at us strangely when see that we get better menu, and that is mostly potato and one piece of meat.
And of course most of our leaders are petty tyrants, they are inspectors, higher and independent inspectors, it is all about ranks. One inspector heads each section of about 23-24 cadets. They behave to us like to kids, that is most of cadets are in their 20th year or early twenties, some 19ties, but to me that Am in 28th year of my life it is idiotic, but our inspector said all of you are the same and if you do not like it here there is a exit, I ll respect you when you get your badge, or saying there is 18 meters between me and you, getting frustrated for small things to numerous and often that I am not going to mention them. When you go to lunch, dinner, to school or everywhere you go in columns of two and have to salute your superiors, sometimes you march. Have to shave every morning and be dressed in uniform most of the time when in academy. One guy got admonition. Funny thing is that the academy is punishment for all those inspectors because they messed something up on duty and ended up there, so it is hypocrisy from their part.
I have good grades, mostly A s so our classmistress starts speaking how if you have all A s you can choose station and city where you will work and go to higher police school to become inspector, and has hopes for 3 of us who have good grades to go to higher school. etc.., one of that guy is a robot I think because he does everything he is told so nobody likes him, but it is not possible, especially when it comes to rigorous physical conditions nobody will have A. But she also is not all clear in her head because she behaves like she is bipolar. Our section leader, inspector got bias against me because I did not go for some days to clean the sector because I used that few minutes to study, and when he was yelling like mad on whole section for bad grades which is normal because they do not give you time for that I was grinning so he said to one girl cadet that said it to me that he was deeply offended by that. He said if you do not want to learn then you will do physical exercises, so one guy whose father was in swat said that we are going to have less time to learn if we do exercises, and he started raving mad telling him I know types like you, those who act smart, etc... once he was raving mad on one guy who did not go to school on a day of test because he went to dentist and asked him to be honest why did not he went to school, when he said he went to dentist he started raving mad no matter that he wrote test the next hour of that subject. Because his bias classmisstress said one hour that she is starting new cycle of verbal exams, from first I got A, and she opened grade book and started listing to my page. I said that she give me negative and that I was not ready. I did not learn it because had other subjects and she was acting like being astonished and that you can not say you do not want to talk, but have to stand and she has to ask questions even if you do not know, which doesn t makes sense because it only takes time and you said already you are not ready. After a week I corrected it to A, but then she was of good will.
And there is also ratting, there are also rats in every section but I was surprised that the one who was ratting against me was one of my roommates, guy who I gave luncheon vouchers for breakfasts and for other meals on weekends when I went home. So I got from then laying low, acting like all is good and fine but being careful what I say and to whom. From what I understood some of those guys can not get positive grades so they are ready for everything to pass it, two-faced snakes, no honor, no dignity, nothing. It is no surprise because 80 per cent of all section got in through connections, most of that some family member being in police, while the section inspector keeps saying I honor hard work and honesty, yeah right, like if you have to learn to 5 am learn but be ready to get up at 5:30, like that is normal, and he is an example going 12 times to test in English because he did not pass every time. He also caught me on my laptot in the time of mandatory learning no matter if I had good grades, and others got caught sleeping because of tiredness so we had to write report.
At least we can smoke in one designated area so I smoke a lot, I smoked in room but quit there to not get caught because you get admonition, one guy get caught while eating in civilian clothes and got admonitions and others for not running in the morning or hiding while others are running.
We had initial test for physical conditions from abs and dips-es I got A, running was weaker about 10:47 on 2400m, it was for pass but most of section did not pass and we have real tests again in 2nd month next year but we do not do these exercises so it is hard to find time for it and gym because of all the obligations. Training ground with obstacles was about 2:24 min., but just one from our section and me gave it a try. When I saw norms for intervention police, special anti-riot unit and for situations normal police can not handle(one level behind swat) they even had easier norms when it comes to running, but have more tests in other physical areas like sprinting, etc..., so it seems pathology is becoming rampant. police
Now, in this month we have practical work on streets in basic and traffic police so I have more time and got to sleep longer, that is until Christmas when we get 2 weeks of rest at home. Normally there is all different then on academy, some guys are idiots like watching porn on duty and drinking, going to their lover while having wife and kids, being cocky,etc.., others are ok. While being in traffic police on friday and saturday evenings I stopped only expensive cars and most of people that are driving them are drunk and sadly can afford fines, others I let go even if they could not find driver or traffic license and who seemed ok. Did not yet had any serious situation like others did when men robbed a bank and put a bomb in bank, or guy got on the street with ak-47 but eventually gave himself to intervention police, some even had to put down a men that hanged himself. But it is not like in US where policemen kill people if they say wrong word, here you ignore it because they do not like using too much force, and you are in no way protected like there, and people pay small fines and can choose to pay on spot for of-fences and then pay cheaper fines if they pay it immediately. Yes, there is a corruption and one guy I worked for that is working for 12 years said you never turn your back on partner because real situation is different when you have to use force then in theory. On that I grinned, it sounded like to much movies, but reality there is that all you see in movies is not far from truth. Luckily we did not go to any eviction even if we had scheduled that but court postponed it.
If I knew it was so messed up on the academy I would never go like many there now say because of stress, tiredness, not having any free time but now you have to pay about 1000 euros and go to court with Ministry of the interior, but some like a guy I talk to do not have choice because he says this is his way to go to college because state pays him if he finishes school. He did get in every college but did not have money for studying, his parents are subtenants and he said once they did not have nothing to eat and his mother had to beg to get them meal. Many come from rural areas where there are about 400 applicants in one village. And we get monthly pay while studying only about 50-60 euros, and have to wait up to 2 years to get a job with decent pay. At least I ll get decent fire arm training with AK-47, and Erro machine gun, I go privately to shooting range and shoot from handguns HS9, Glock 19. and ČZ M75B but firing from automatic rifles is not allowed for civilians. We do some things like fast drawing and other technical things which I am not so good at but it is not really realistic situations, shooting is for me more important and I get most of the shoots in black but did not been now for two months to range because of lack of money and time and we have shooting on academy only in 2th month next year, and there is always yelling from instructor if you do not do as he tells you and then others start laughing at you if you mess something up, but most of them I see do these technical work ok because their fathers and mothers in police learned them and you can not learn it so fast.
In the end I told myself when the sh.. hits the fan I know on which side I am on, surly not on the side of the oligarchy, I am just using them to get training. Even thought of going to Russian embassy when I finish it if the s.... doesn t hit the fan sooner. Sister and her husband and their kid are doing ok, better then me at least because they got lot of Gurdijeff books and are reading it, I on the other hand are doing cold shower 5 times a week.
Physical training is useless because they test you in key-locks that are not applicable in real situation, with handcuffs and we also run a lot, do pushups and similar strength exercises. Final test is running for 2400 m under 11:07 min, for A you have to have under 9 min, 13 dips-es to fist for pass and 25 for A, 38 abs on a bench with a bar on back of your neck for A, and you do training ground with obstacles like in the army under 3 min and something seconds for pass, and under 2 min. for A. They raised physical conditions for a lot in reflection to prior generations. Training ground is most hardest for all because of walking on bars with your hands and making full circle with your body on a bar, and it was removed few years back because one guy fell from it and became handicapped, and many broke something. One girl from our section fell and we thought she broke her leg but it was only sprain ankle.
It is harder then in army because there you at least do only physical exercises and here you have to study also and you have time for nothing, not even for that. But no one asks you how you manage it. Food is really bad, I do not go to breakfasts but eat what I bring from home for breakfast or I am fasting till the lunch because you get bread and dairy products or chocolate layers like nutella to put on bread, for lunch and dinner I eat but you get one meat piece and potato or rice, salad, and that is what I got because I and one guy that is gluten sensitive brought doctor affirmation on paper that we are gluten sensitive and only 2 of us of whole academy. Others eat more pasta and carbs like in chocolates and chocolate bars they give them. There is a market but there is no fresh meals, that is meat to buy, only that processed dry meat and fruits. That s why others look at us strangely when see that we get better menu, and that is mostly potato and one piece of meat.
And of course most of our leaders are petty tyrants, they are inspectors, higher and independent inspectors, it is all about ranks. One inspector heads each section of about 23-24 cadets. They behave to us like to kids, that is most of cadets are in their 20th year or early twenties, some 19ties, but to me that Am in 28th year of my life it is idiotic, but our inspector said all of you are the same and if you do not like it here there is a exit, I ll respect you when you get your badge, or saying there is 18 meters between me and you, getting frustrated for small things to numerous and often that I am not going to mention them. When you go to lunch, dinner, to school or everywhere you go in columns of two and have to salute your superiors, sometimes you march. Have to shave every morning and be dressed in uniform most of the time when in academy. One guy got admonition. Funny thing is that the academy is punishment for all those inspectors because they messed something up on duty and ended up there, so it is hypocrisy from their part.
I have good grades, mostly A s so our classmistress starts speaking how if you have all A s you can choose station and city where you will work and go to higher police school to become inspector, and has hopes for 3 of us who have good grades to go to higher school. etc.., one of that guy is a robot I think because he does everything he is told so nobody likes him, but it is not possible, especially when it comes to rigorous physical conditions nobody will have A. But she also is not all clear in her head because she behaves like she is bipolar. Our section leader, inspector got bias against me because I did not go for some days to clean the sector because I used that few minutes to study, and when he was yelling like mad on whole section for bad grades which is normal because they do not give you time for that I was grinning so he said to one girl cadet that said it to me that he was deeply offended by that. He said if you do not want to learn then you will do physical exercises, so one guy whose father was in swat said that we are going to have less time to learn if we do exercises, and he started raving mad telling him I know types like you, those who act smart, etc... once he was raving mad on one guy who did not go to school on a day of test because he went to dentist and asked him to be honest why did not he went to school, when he said he went to dentist he started raving mad no matter that he wrote test the next hour of that subject. Because his bias classmisstress said one hour that she is starting new cycle of verbal exams, from first I got A, and she opened grade book and started listing to my page. I said that she give me negative and that I was not ready. I did not learn it because had other subjects and she was acting like being astonished and that you can not say you do not want to talk, but have to stand and she has to ask questions even if you do not know, which doesn t makes sense because it only takes time and you said already you are not ready. After a week I corrected it to A, but then she was of good will.
And there is also ratting, there are also rats in every section but I was surprised that the one who was ratting against me was one of my roommates, guy who I gave luncheon vouchers for breakfasts and for other meals on weekends when I went home. So I got from then laying low, acting like all is good and fine but being careful what I say and to whom. From what I understood some of those guys can not get positive grades so they are ready for everything to pass it, two-faced snakes, no honor, no dignity, nothing. It is no surprise because 80 per cent of all section got in through connections, most of that some family member being in police, while the section inspector keeps saying I honor hard work and honesty, yeah right, like if you have to learn to 5 am learn but be ready to get up at 5:30, like that is normal, and he is an example going 12 times to test in English because he did not pass every time. He also caught me on my laptot in the time of mandatory learning no matter if I had good grades, and others got caught sleeping because of tiredness so we had to write report.
At least we can smoke in one designated area so I smoke a lot, I smoked in room but quit there to not get caught because you get admonition, one guy get caught while eating in civilian clothes and got admonitions and others for not running in the morning or hiding while others are running.
We had initial test for physical conditions from abs and dips-es I got A, running was weaker about 10:47 on 2400m, it was for pass but most of section did not pass and we have real tests again in 2nd month next year but we do not do these exercises so it is hard to find time for it and gym because of all the obligations. Training ground with obstacles was about 2:24 min., but just one from our section and me gave it a try. When I saw norms for intervention police, special anti-riot unit and for situations normal police can not handle(one level behind swat) they even had easier norms when it comes to running, but have more tests in other physical areas like sprinting, etc..., so it seems pathology is becoming rampant. police
Now, in this month we have practical work on streets in basic and traffic police so I have more time and got to sleep longer, that is until Christmas when we get 2 weeks of rest at home. Normally there is all different then on academy, some guys are idiots like watching porn on duty and drinking, going to their lover while having wife and kids, being cocky,etc.., others are ok. While being in traffic police on friday and saturday evenings I stopped only expensive cars and most of people that are driving them are drunk and sadly can afford fines, others I let go even if they could not find driver or traffic license and who seemed ok. Did not yet had any serious situation like others did when men robbed a bank and put a bomb in bank, or guy got on the street with ak-47 but eventually gave himself to intervention police, some even had to put down a men that hanged himself. But it is not like in US where policemen kill people if they say wrong word, here you ignore it because they do not like using too much force, and you are in no way protected like there, and people pay small fines and can choose to pay on spot for of-fences and then pay cheaper fines if they pay it immediately. Yes, there is a corruption and one guy I worked for that is working for 12 years said you never turn your back on partner because real situation is different when you have to use force then in theory. On that I grinned, it sounded like to much movies, but reality there is that all you see in movies is not far from truth. Luckily we did not go to any eviction even if we had scheduled that but court postponed it.
If I knew it was so messed up on the academy I would never go like many there now say because of stress, tiredness, not having any free time but now you have to pay about 1000 euros and go to court with Ministry of the interior, but some like a guy I talk to do not have choice because he says this is his way to go to college because state pays him if he finishes school. He did get in every college but did not have money for studying, his parents are subtenants and he said once they did not have nothing to eat and his mother had to beg to get them meal. Many come from rural areas where there are about 400 applicants in one village. And we get monthly pay while studying only about 50-60 euros, and have to wait up to 2 years to get a job with decent pay. At least I ll get decent fire arm training with AK-47, and Erro machine gun, I go privately to shooting range and shoot from handguns HS9, Glock 19. and ČZ M75B but firing from automatic rifles is not allowed for civilians. We do some things like fast drawing and other technical things which I am not so good at but it is not really realistic situations, shooting is for me more important and I get most of the shoots in black but did not been now for two months to range because of lack of money and time and we have shooting on academy only in 2th month next year, and there is always yelling from instructor if you do not do as he tells you and then others start laughing at you if you mess something up, but most of them I see do these technical work ok because their fathers and mothers in police learned them and you can not learn it so fast.
In the end I told myself when the sh.. hits the fan I know on which side I am on, surly not on the side of the oligarchy, I am just using them to get training. Even thought of going to Russian embassy when I finish it if the s.... doesn t hit the fan sooner. Sister and her husband and their kid are doing ok, better then me at least because they got lot of Gurdijeff books and are reading it, I on the other hand are doing cold shower 5 times a week.
Tui
Jedi
SOMETIMES A SEED HAS NO EMBRYO
Even when I judge a person might be ready to scratch a little deeper, not satisfied with surface knowledge anymore, I have learnt not to haunt that person with intense lectures to drive my message home. If the person does not come back to me and enquire further, I let it go. If the person asks for more information, I give them only the information that they have asked for, nothing more. Sometimes I deliberately change the subject when I judge that the person has enough to digest for the moment.
As so many people have noted here, not all people are ready to wake up. The germination – or not – of seed, is a good analogy.
A farmer has learnt through experience that before sowing, good preparation of the soil is necessary. Then s/he carefully plants the seeds. They give the correct amount of water at the proper times. They do not hover over the planted area for long hours, anxiously looking for some sign of emerging green. They do not regularly dig up the seed to see if there are signs of roots yet.
They know that deep in the dark soil, processes have been set in motion for the germination of the seeds, and it will happen at precisely the right time and their wishful thinking and goading will not speed up the process and might even kill the seed.
Whether the seed will live and grow depends on a number of factors. The germinating (or not) seed can be closely correlated with the awakening (or not) human. It illustrates how one could, or should, view the seed that one has sowed:
Fully developed seeds contain an embryo. However, sometimes some of the seeds do not develop, they have no embryo (the so-called ‘empty seeds’). They will never germinate. There are also ripe dormant seeds, but certain ecological factors prohibit germination and growth (water, oxygen, temperature, light/darkness), but if the proper conditions can be established the seed embryo can resume growth.
Mature seeds are often dry and need good imbibition before growth will resume, swelling out and breaking the seed coat. A germinating seed needs oxygen for metabolism. A seed buried very deeply in the soil, or receiving too much water, can be starved of oxygen. The thick skins of some seeds prevent the intake of oxygen and water until its thick coat is worn away. Various seeds germinate only at certain temperatures and will not germinate outside of that temperature and will stay dormant until the temperature changes to the right degree – some require freezing conditions like -5 degrees C before waking up, others need a hot forest fire to crack their hard seed coats. Some species of seeds will not germinate unless there is light, others need darkness, or need to be soaked for a long time, or need an animal’s digestive juices to break their skins and set them free from their dormancy.
It helps to remember, when I try to wake people up, that seeds and their internal and external conditions differ, and so germination is variable. Some of our loved ones are empty seeds, and there is nothing we can ever do about it. Some of our loved ones are only dormant and can be awakened with careful handling at the right time.
We have to learn to be objective and patient if we wish to grow and to help other people to grow – or not.
This is just how things are.
It is what it is.
Even when I judge a person might be ready to scratch a little deeper, not satisfied with surface knowledge anymore, I have learnt not to haunt that person with intense lectures to drive my message home. If the person does not come back to me and enquire further, I let it go. If the person asks for more information, I give them only the information that they have asked for, nothing more. Sometimes I deliberately change the subject when I judge that the person has enough to digest for the moment.
As so many people have noted here, not all people are ready to wake up. The germination – or not – of seed, is a good analogy.
A farmer has learnt through experience that before sowing, good preparation of the soil is necessary. Then s/he carefully plants the seeds. They give the correct amount of water at the proper times. They do not hover over the planted area for long hours, anxiously looking for some sign of emerging green. They do not regularly dig up the seed to see if there are signs of roots yet.
They know that deep in the dark soil, processes have been set in motion for the germination of the seeds, and it will happen at precisely the right time and their wishful thinking and goading will not speed up the process and might even kill the seed.
Whether the seed will live and grow depends on a number of factors. The germinating (or not) seed can be closely correlated with the awakening (or not) human. It illustrates how one could, or should, view the seed that one has sowed:
Fully developed seeds contain an embryo. However, sometimes some of the seeds do not develop, they have no embryo (the so-called ‘empty seeds’). They will never germinate. There are also ripe dormant seeds, but certain ecological factors prohibit germination and growth (water, oxygen, temperature, light/darkness), but if the proper conditions can be established the seed embryo can resume growth.
Mature seeds are often dry and need good imbibition before growth will resume, swelling out and breaking the seed coat. A germinating seed needs oxygen for metabolism. A seed buried very deeply in the soil, or receiving too much water, can be starved of oxygen. The thick skins of some seeds prevent the intake of oxygen and water until its thick coat is worn away. Various seeds germinate only at certain temperatures and will not germinate outside of that temperature and will stay dormant until the temperature changes to the right degree – some require freezing conditions like -5 degrees C before waking up, others need a hot forest fire to crack their hard seed coats. Some species of seeds will not germinate unless there is light, others need darkness, or need to be soaked for a long time, or need an animal’s digestive juices to break their skins and set them free from their dormancy.
It helps to remember, when I try to wake people up, that seeds and their internal and external conditions differ, and so germination is variable. Some of our loved ones are empty seeds, and there is nothing we can ever do about it. Some of our loved ones are only dormant and can be awakened with careful handling at the right time.
We have to learn to be objective and patient if we wish to grow and to help other people to grow – or not.
This is just how things are.
It is what it is.
All we can do is set examples, G said it's a great skill to master if we know to be silent when necessary.
Here's a quote from a C transcript in December: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,36716.0.html
Just proves we can't push or force anyone to open their eyes, unfortunately..
Here's a quote from a C transcript in December: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,36716.0.html
Just proves we can't push or force anyone to open their eyes, unfortunately..
casper
The Living Force
Learning, except as may be fun, it can also be a very difficult and demanding (depends on the individual, the knowledge to be learned and the teacher).
I think it is first necessary to meet the person, her thinking, reasons ..., that person must demonstrate a particular interest in specific environmental topics (lessons), but if you ask a question or demonstrate a willingness to make some progress, then it should be familiar with the work at the very themselves, in small steps, not by force, because it would easily have come to the opposite effect.
We can meet someone with this kind of work on it, just like that, because we want it, because we care about that person, that person must first ask.
And this waiting is actually difficult, because it can happen, that this person never asks a question (never wakes up). :(
I think it is first necessary to meet the person, her thinking, reasons ..., that person must demonstrate a particular interest in specific environmental topics (lessons), but if you ask a question or demonstrate a willingness to make some progress, then it should be familiar with the work at the very themselves, in small steps, not by force, because it would easily have come to the opposite effect.
We can meet someone with this kind of work on it, just like that, because we want it, because we care about that person, that person must first ask.
And this waiting is actually difficult, because it can happen, that this person never asks a question (never wakes up). :(
Trobar
Jedi
My experience with my family was one where they noticed changes in me and began to ask me questions. I 'assumed' they wanted to understand me and my choices and I answered their questions as truthfully as I could at the time. They concluded that I had been brain washed and that I had joined a cult. BIG painful lesson.
This was about 11 years ago and I have slowly learned that it is not necessary - nor necessarily wise - to provide comprehensive answers to any person who is entrenched in their own individual beliefs. I was once one of those people and I remember going into heavy duty denial when I felt that my own 'beliefs' were somehow being threatened.
However, we are not ready to learn until we are ready to learn. I have learned that asking questions does not always imply that we are ready to hear truth that may shatter our 'beliefs'. I am much more careful now when I am asked a question about what I think.
This was about 11 years ago and I have slowly learned that it is not necessary - nor necessarily wise - to provide comprehensive answers to any person who is entrenched in their own individual beliefs. I was once one of those people and I remember going into heavy duty denial when I felt that my own 'beliefs' were somehow being threatened.
However, we are not ready to learn until we are ready to learn. I have learned that asking questions does not always imply that we are ready to hear truth that may shatter our 'beliefs'. I am much more careful now when I am asked a question about what I think.
casper
The Living Force
People from our proximity (family, friends) first note that we are somehow different, that otherwise we talk, we calmly answers, if we change the diet, ask questions, I think they do not need to rubble (immediately) honestly say all, but gradually to introduce them in our new thinking, our different views of the world and all that is happening around us, otherwise we will get the answer that we are in a cult.trobar said:
The vast majority of people see that changes are happening, but are not willing to do anything, work hard, learn.
My personal experience was positive, after the first follower is the second, third ... question, we explored together, a wonderful experience, with the guidance they give me unselfishly forum members. :)