How to Carry On? How to Wake Others?

Nell-Li

The Force is Strong With This One
I just finished reading, http://(www).sott.net/articles/show/142555-Fascism-is-HERE-NOW-Violent-Radicalization-and-Homegrown-Terrorism-Prevention-Act-of-2007, from the editors. I have to say I got depressed after reading the informative article and in depth comments from the readers. Before I lose anyone usually after reading the first sentence, The article for me was about Fascicsm in the US and the nature of how it happens so clearly from the SOTT info and independent researchers( especially ponerology and how the pathocracy developes in each tier of society). The next point was how each individual shows initiative in life and responsibilty for the society, and the ensuing comments from the readers about the analogy of the "two types of warriors" in each individuals life choices. Some were brave enough to point out that they fall under the second type of warrior who picks sides under the victor or is lazy or procrastinates in the situation of humanity as of now( I fall under this type as well) Yet still I m thankful there are still many of the frist type of warriors who we all see here at SOTT and around the world...but few. By the end of the comments I felt the articles intent had been read as a wake up call to individuals to take initiative( in whatever state or form that is realized) and stand up and "DO" something.( again this can be taken in whatever form the individual acknowledges as "doing") I have thought this over many times and to me "DOing" something, as in our collective case is for me first and foremost work on ourselves( which includes knowledge in all its forms) and at the same time working with others, and so I have come to where my question or confused state comes in.

I m sure to have missed many or all good point from the article and comments, but the part that really stuck to me was when some readers were pointing out how trying to wake up people aound you is a test to itself, and many just fall back asleep. This state is one I have encounter especially from my own borther, who has openly admitted that he rather fall back asleep and dream for eternity and search for happiness his own way (which I respect), then to risk losing what illusions of happiness he has left just to search for truth. But is that as far as I should or can go for each and every individual? The answer is of course no, and to keep trying the infinite posibilities that are open to us. But still how to introduce someone that you care for to the truth, with their full shield of illusions to battle through. It seems the only possible option( my brother in this case) is to introduce to him as much knowledge as he is willing to absorb and allow the truth to take its "time" to battle through to him. Free Will for him is of upmost importance to me, but I have faded to the background as his beacon of light as I myslef lose intensity to help, while he also falls back asleep. At the same time, I have put much information to his face(more like spew, I lost control as tons of "unedited" information about the C's and everything Esoteric came pouring out of me) and he has definitely pull his illusion curtains at highest alert to everything I say(he has a psychology degree, so much to say about that). It seems time is all we need, but the only thing lacking enough of, for it seems waking up people using the free-will approach (yours and theirs) is hard to balance in our day to day experience.

I feel like I have lost my argument and just started to waste your time and mines. It would be nice to hear others experiences in trying to wake others in your life to the illusion of truth. So much to say but I cannot formulate for "I have not reach that point yet" to do so. Thanks for listening to my rant, and please read the article and ensuing comments. Good travelings.

p.s. what effect does waking potential OP's has anyone experienced? and of course the issue runs deep and possibly to the core of our situation. also separating talking fascism and the likes, and everything esotieric with OP's can be an issue. ( always i know some of these issues has already been discussed, if links could be provided or directed in the right direction, much appreciated, Thanks)
 

Saman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Hello Nell-Li. Based on my own experiences with my family and friends, and since all the signs point out that there is not much "time" left, I think the best strategical approach is to simply suggest articles to be read and then to not anticipate what will happen next; to elaborate, that is, some might wish to read them, or some may wish not to. It is almost that simple, but not quite. So if they actually specifically say to you to stop making these suggestions, then they have firmly determined their own need and I would respect their wish and promptly stop making suggestions for readings or viewings. If they don't say anything, it is maybe because they have actually chosen to read it, or to read just some of it, or to ignore it completely. In these cases, I would just keep suggesting articles like the "insiders" and "insider wannabes", or videos like "something wicked this way comes" mainly through the email medium, that is after I have in sincerity read the articles carefully myself, and then who knows, perhaps one day the timing may be just right for them to read or watch a suggested article or video and to be shocked into a more awakened state. Then they might even wish talk to you more directly about what they have read or watched but it should not surprising if they fall back to sleep and choose to mechanically start ridiculing you and whatnot, which is understandable in terms of how the control system works maybe something like tenfolds to put people back to sleep once they get a glimpse of a more awakened state; but then there is some hope because the 'seeds' of Knowledge are potentially within their spirits now, so to speak, and that is, if they are not OP's and actually have the potential to retain these 'seeds'. So if they do, then the Universe might choose to set up conditions for the 'seeds' to 'sprout' further and to reawaken their spirits to a more advanced state then before; then they may choose to read more suggested articles and videos - it's like a step by step process and if it is chosen and meant to be in higher karmic sense, that is in terms of their soul's contemplated lesson profiles and their "karmic shopping list so to speak", then they will choose to go through the process of awakening to their own lessons of seeing reality as it IS. It is like you showing the "horse" the "pond" but respectfully waiting for the "horse" to choose to "drink" or not to "drink", and if the "horse" firmly does not want to "drink" because it is not yet "thirsty", then let it be since "whatever will be, will be". I think the "horse" must become "thirsty" on its own and all you can do is walk the thin-line of periodically suggesting the location of the "pond" to it, that is "periodically" based on the circumstances, without having any expectations that would fall into you determining their needs. In other words, to play your role of helping the spirits of your family and friends, that is the spirits who might have potentially chosen in a higher sense their own Open destinies of awakening to this reality as it IS "below", to realize this potential choice made "above", and to either choose to pursue their "soul questing" to progress into becoming fully awakened, or not. So to recap, if they firmly tell you to stop making these suggestions, then it is much more likely that they did not make the choice of awakening to reality as it IS while "below", and hence it would be wrong in this context to determine their need for them to awaken from their own chosen illusions; the reason being that they didn't determine this choice on their own in a higher sense and thus they are not Asking for your help to be awakened to what IS, or so I think.

The above, for what its worth, is at least what I currently think based on my current readings, experiences, and insights.
 

Tigersoap

The Living Force
Nell-Li said:
I feel like I have lost my argument and just started to waste your time and mines. It would be nice to hear others experiences in trying to wake others in your life to the illusion of truth. So much to say but I cannot formulate for "I have not reach that point yet" to do so. Thanks for listening to my rant, and please read the article and ensuing comments. Good travelings.
Hi Nell-Li,

Maybe that's the whole point, don't force your brother or anyone else to accept your current point of view.
It's not going to help them if they don't want to hear what you have to say.
They might even do the opposite than what you're looking for (looks like your brother went into "shield" mode).
I think it's hard for you to accept this now, but once you'll calm down the part of yourself that wants to "share", it will be easier osit.

That does not mean that you can't leave books around or throw an idea that goes against what's passed as the norm but it is no use to spend your energy trying to convince that you're right because this is self-importance.

Don't despair but know that it's tough and there will be sacrifices to make, starting by your own illusions.
 

QueenVee

Jedi
Saman said:
I think the "horse" must become "thirsty" on its own and all you can do is walk the thin-line of periodically suggesting the location of the "pond" to it, that is "periodically" based on the circumstances, without having any expectations that would fall into you determining their needs.
Very well said. It is indeed a very thin-line to walk, and requires hypersensitivity to those brief "openings" that may appear when the person may be open to new information, usually during those vulnerable moments of crisis and "disintegration" before the his/her social constructs have a chance to reassemble. A non-aggressive manner is important too, talking gently about things that you yourself have come to believe and discover, based on your on questions and explorations, rather than a dogmatic hammer-on-the-head THIS IS THE TRUTH, WAKE UP YOU FOOL approach. Directing them to more than one "pond" (i.e. source of material) is important too, in order to avoid being perceived as some kind of cultist with a messianic message....

Just my two cents....
 

Cyre2067

The Living Force
Hey Nell, it helps to bring things down to their level. Some people just aren't ready for full disclosure, as you've seen, it'll shut them down and prevent them from seeking on their own. Sometimes when I'm reading blogs, I'll get a feel for where someone is at, in terms of what they'll accept, and thus I'll link them to an article along the same lines. Usually I'm just interested in how they're saying what they're saying and i'll ask them what they think about how this person worded his bit.

You can do the same thing in person, IE your brother is a psyche guy, maybe read Hare's Without Conscience and bounce some of that offa him (Myth of Sanity by Martha Stout, Shock Doctrine by Naomi Wolf, Trapped in the Mirror by Elan Goulomb and The Narcissistic Family by the Pressmans are also great psyche books), he might not be able to take Political Ponerology yet, but you can work up to it. Unfortunately what I've found from psyche people, is that typically they don't get a solid background is psychopathology unless it's their specialization.

Also, from what I've seen, we're all wanting to make huge leaps and bounds of awareness, yet that's not the way it's done. Everything has to go at it's own pace, naturally within the system that already exists, so you can't expect everyone you talk to to wake up as soon as the convo is over, but maybe you can plant a seed or two that over time (with some watering) can grow. The more seeds planted, gently, caringly and without expectation of results, the more likely plants (awareness) will grow, fwiw.

Edit: There's also something to be said for playing a role, which is something I find myself doing at work and around friends and family. You have to conform to their expectations somewhat, there's a good example of me being angry about doing just that here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=7324
 

anart

A Disturbance in the Force
Hi Nell-Li,

It's been my personal experience that one of the hardest parts of all of this 'waking up' and Work has been realizing that I may be the only person among my whole family, and previously close friends, who truly has the drive and desire to wake up. My older sister reminds me a bit of your brother. She told me that she wants to keep her head in the sand and that her illusion of life is more important to her becaue it keeps her 'happy'.

Because I love her deeply, I have to respect her Free Will - and I have to give up on my own rather self-important desire to wake her up - to show her the truth - to change her life - because, ultimately, that is simply not for me to do. It is HER life.

It sounds like you came away with a pretty good understanding of the article and the comments, and for the purposes of the article, the 'waking others up' really speaks more to spreading the information about the Fascist legislation and spreading the truth about the world and this country so that people have a chance to wake up. It really doesn't deal with spreading esoteric truths, although it could certainly lead to that for people who are inherently drawn to such things on their own - for those people who 'have it in them to do it'.

As far as your brother is concerned, from what you've said here, it seems that it might be best to just let him be. I know that's not easy, but if he has it in him to 'wake up' then he will do that on his own - and if he doesn't, then nothing you can say or do will change that, plus you're liable to drive him away while trying - it's rather that whole 'external consideration' issue. Just some thoughts - hang in there.
 

T.C.

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
anart said:
It's been my personal experience that one of the hardest parts of all of this 'waking up' and Work has been realizing that I may be the only person among my whole family, and previously close friends, who truly has the drive and desire to wake up.
Here, here.

It's the old "everybody's on a different part of the wheel" theory. The only piece of mind for me in this situation always comes from Gurdjieff, "it can be no other way". If they were supposed to be waking up they would be. Also, I relate to the matter of fact inclusion of the words previously close friends. It's not that we dislike or fall out with people, but time can be spent more constructively by learning rather than just socialising.

Also, their slumber can have a sleepy effect on me too. I turn into "social Tom", but instead of it being a conscious decision of external considering, it's just me forgetting myself.
 

Saman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
QueenVee said:
A non-aggressive manner is important too, talking gently about things that you yourself have come to believe and discover, based on your on questions and explorations, rather than a dogmatic hammer-on-the-head THIS IS THE TRUTH, WAKE UP YOU FOOL approach. Directing them to more than one "pond" (i.e. source of material) is important too, in order to avoid being perceived as some kind of cultist with a messianic message....

Just my two cents....
I think these are very important points, to say the least. In fact, they are paramount in terms of learning to honor the Free Will of oneself and others with Self Respect; moreover, paramount if one is sincerely Working to fine tune their 'reading instrument' due to the intent of properly playing their role in helping others who are Asking. That is Asking in the higher sense due to the potential of them having chosen to add to their own "karmic shopping list" the needed elements to awaken to reality as it IS "below". As you say, one must learn to be hypersensitive to the context of the situation to see if their role is to play the part of one of those "elements", or not.
 

Mikey

The Living Force
Nell-Li said:
It would be nice to hear others experiences in trying to wake others in your life to the illusion of truth.
Hello Nell-Li!

I understand your situation very well, since I am tempted to waken my close family too; especially my mother, since I recently noticed an explosion of New Age energy and beliefs in her. As Gurdjieff said: "Dreaming of waking up". I too was in the Love & Light crowd so I can understand her situation. But now I am REALLY startled to see in my friends and relatives how absolutely *malicious* New Age teachings are.

But then, I better do nothing, except spreading seeds very carefully and well-timed to see if they grow, as QueenVee already pointed out.

What remains to be DOne is, to work on yourself and to educate yourself. If your situation is such, that you feel helpless and nothing can be done externally, this will not last forever and there WILL be situations just for you to throw in one proper comment or sentence into a discussion or question, yielding maximum efficiency of information transfer. You could prepare for this moment(s).

Chapter 28 of Laura's Book Amazing Grace helped me immensely to deal with this situation. I think it's okay to quote from this chapter. I've emphasized the passages I thought are relevant to your initial question.

She explains why there are dangers when you 'want' to help others. This is most important to understand! The last quoted sentence pretty much sums it up.

Amazing Grace, Chapter 28, emphasis mine
[...]

When I sent Noah to Eva, I wanted her to understand so we could think about plans for “building the Ark”. Her response was less than enthusiastic. While I’d been lost in the Fundamentalist Forest, Eva had become deeply involved in the work of Lama Sing and other New Age channeled sources. Most believed that “Earth Changes” were an easily avoidable problem if people just “harmonically converged” or visualized love and light surrounding the planet and, most of all, focused only on positive things. Thinking about negativity created it, and even learning about it was an act of creating evil. It was easy to see this was just a variation on the Fundamentalist approach of “Jesus Saves” and we don’t have to think. New Age Religion taught believing in the power of Love and Light was the ticket. In the end, the result was purported to be the same - Salvation or Ascension. In later years, Eva more fully formulated this idea of not seeing anything in our reality that was unpleasant in terms she called the “personal myth” and described it as follows:

My thought is that when an event occurs, there is the reality of it. But in the event that an individual has taken part in this event, or has observed it, the original reality is filtered through each involved individual’s consciousness and therefore subject to each individual’s viewpoints, biases, attentive lapses, etc. and therefore each individual's account of that event diverges, either minutely or greatly or somewhere in between, from another individual’s account. It then becomes a part of each individual’s “personal myth”. Then there are the choices each individual makes as to what takes the attention. I usually remark that it is part of my personal myth (when I get up in the morning) that no one is in pain, hunger being raped or murdered etc., because if I let those realities into my consciousness at every waking moment, I would be virtually paralyzed and unable to function because of the horror of it all.
It was popularly posited “those who do not believe in demons will not experience such things.”

[...]

Contrary to popular New Age lore, the presence of evil does not require the permission or belief or thoughts of the host to exist or even to manifest in that person’s life. It seemed there was some sort of connection between belief and denial. When a person undertakes to “believe” something, there is a whole cosmos of other things that they are, by this act of belief, denying. Belief or non-belief seemed to have no bearing on the reality of these “beings”. With limited knowledge, many people are left wide open to psychic intrusion.

I was deeply concerned that Eva was being led astray by such ideas. At the same time, Eva was convinced that I had “created” the suffering in my life by my endless questions about the nature of Good and Evil. She didn’t catch the very important point that it was only when I had given up my questions and had plunged into the “True Believer” mode of existence that all other options seemed to have been closed off. In later years I became able to joke that when I gave up thinking in exchange for Faith in Jesus, all Hell broke loose. But at the time it wasn’t very funny.

[...]

And now, Eva was promoting these ideas as the “cause” for my own troubles - that I had thought too much about evil and darkness in my efforts to understand it and had thereby “created” it. She forwarded to me a reading by Lama Sing which was supposed to “prove this point”. However, what Lama Sing had to say about the matter was quite in line with my own thinking.

[...]

In effect, Lama Sing is saying that certain souls are in the Earth who have entered into existence for the very purpose of suffering the effects of the darkness in order to learn about it, and to then “seek it out and replace it with light”.

[...]

Aside from the fact that Lama Sing has confirmed that learning about, seeking understanding of, the forces of darkness in order to truly know how to replace them with light, which means that merely “thinking about it” is not what creates it, Lama Sing has also made a certain remark that he repeats a couple more times about the “tenets” of God - that it is violation of these tenets that actually is the thing that contributes to the thought form of darkness. This was, for me, the crux of the matter. [...] How many other pathways seemed, upon first inspection, to be based on goodness, but were, in fact, merely darkness masquerading as light? Just what were the so-called “Tenets of God” really?

At the beginning of his remarks Lama Sing also commented that the forces of light often make use of the forces of darkness to do their work. In other words, as the saying goes: The Devil is in the details. It seems quite evident that not learning about these forces and how they operate is one of the single most important ways that we are tricked into violating the “tenets of God” through ignorance.

[...]

What greater “misuse” of the forces of light can there be than to persuade people to stop thinking, to stop analyzing, to stop learning and growing, whether it is by faith in the salvation of Jesus or by faith in the idea that no evil exists unless you think about it? What greater way for the forces of darkness to enter a person’s life than in the guise of goodness that has been twisted and distorted so that the individual continually does what they think is good and right, but are effectively promoting the agenda of darkness through ignorance?

I was learning that the greatest deception of all is the teaching that there are no real negative forces, and if there are, in any case, we haven’t to worry about them because, if we just think nice thoughts, meditate regularly, and use our affirmations nothing unpleasant will ever enter our reality. I was learning that evil insinuates itself into our lives in the guise of goodness and truth. Evil follows the line of erosion of our spirituality through the erosion of knowledge. What better way to protect evil activities than to deny that they exist?

I was also discovering that the only way to implement the “tenets of God” was to follow the path of learning about the lies in order to perceive the truth. I was learning that the only defense we have is knowledge: to be able to identify moment by moment where we stand, what is going on, and which choice to make. And we cannot do this if we deny, on a continual basis, the existence of darkness in our reality. Lama Sing was saying that it was not true that putting one’s attention on these ideas “gives them energy.” Such a process is only valid if one focuses in this way with the intention of participation. The catch 22 exists in the fact that a comprehensive understanding of these forces is absolutely necessary in order to know how to give them less energy. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

But, to “do something,” does not mean to proselytize or try to “save others” by destroying what they choose to believe for their own path, their own lessons, their own process of experiencing darkness in order to become sufficiently motivated to seek the light.

Indeed, Eva had a point about the “personal myth,” to shield one’s self from the great outpouring of human suffering seems to be an essential survival device. But it also seemed to me that such a process must be carefully managed, otherwise we will also blind ourselves to the signs of darkness acting on our own lives - and this darkness is not necessarily created within by thinking about it. And that seeing is what ultimately enabled me to be able to make choices based on truth and not a personal myth. Indeed, we live in subjective realities, but it seems that the purpose of existence is to become less and less subjective, to see as objectively as possible, and not to isolate ourselves because we cannot bear our brother’s suffering. To continually close our eyes to reality is to live in an illusion, and illusion is wishful thinking, and wishful thinking seems to be at the core of subjective experience.

More than that, Lama Sing has said that these forces of darkness can be thought of as “potential for change” and this change is to be in “understanding ways of thinking, ways of living”. Well, clearly that isn’t going to happen if a person is “fixated” upon a single idea of faith or “you create your own reality by what you think about,” and stubbornly refuses to observe the effects of this thinking in their lives as I was being forced to do. How many people, even in the face of similar events and experiences refuse to let go of the idea that their faith is being “tested?” All kinds of things happen in their lives that are distinctly unpleasant or even tragic and miserable, and they blithely go on thinking that they have to just work harder to either “endure” or to find the key that will “unlock” the right mantra or visualization in order to “create” the “right” reality. Or they become convinced that they have to destroy those who do not agree with them once they have encountered someone who simply refuses to participate in their reality. It’s the same principle working in both contexts: a refusal to examine their thinking, attitudes and intent!

[...]

There is a very tricky point in the above remark: the attitudes a person focuses on others are what is reflected inwardly. In other words, if you focus “Love and Light” with the attitude that they need to be “fixed,” that they are “broken” in some way, you will experience what you believe - your attitude - NOT what you think, which is merely the result of your beliefs. This is the trickiest point of all. To believe that one needs a “personal myth,” is an open invitation to experience pain and suffering. To believe that it is necessary to choose the focus of the mind on the idea “that no one is in pain, hunger, being raped or murdered etc.” because one believes that to let those realities into the consciousness and will result in paralysis, is to give way to fear of what is, to believe that it can overtake us, and gives power to the darkness.

Yes, there is horror, there is darkness, but it seems that we are in a school where darkness is experienced until we learn to look at it without blinking, to focus light on it in terms of learning about it in the deepest way possible. Indeed, when we do not know what it is and how it manifests, and especially how it operates in the guise of goodness and light, we are subject to being paralyzed and unable to function because of the horror of it all when it does manifest, as it will if we are not guarding against it by learning about it. And that was my experience in Fundamentalism. The belief that I needed to be saved, that others needed to be saved, or that I needed to pray for salvation, or that I needed to just love everyone and everything around me in order to save myself- all of this was predicated on the idea that something needed to be fixed, that there was lack in the universe, that God was “under attack” by the forces of darkness, so to speak, that the world out there was “broken,” and I had to shield myself from it.

What was it that Lama Sing said that we might focus on others? “Compassion and loving attitudes; to think about life in general and to strive to make each aspect joyous, first within self not to be angry with self and not to criticize self, not to quickly judge self, and to understand and be compassionate with one’s own errors and one’s own growth.” Obviously, determining that we or someone else “needs” to be “saved” or needs to be surrounded with Love and Light, or even needs our prayers without being directly asked is to deny the positive/negative nature of life, to be in a critical mode, to be judgmental, and to be intolerant of errors and the rate of growth in others. If we think we have to “save others” or “transform them” by focusing our Love and Light on them or their situations, then we are living in judgment and we are violating their free will. And the same rules apply to our attitudes toward ourselves.

[...]

The question is about “subduing or binding the forces of darkness” in order to transform them to light. And Lama Sing clearly relates this to a violation of free will. He then notes that to impose their own ideas of how things should be on either the self or another, that this is literally an “asking” for retaliation. To impose the “personal myth” on the self is to deny the will of the soul to do what it is here to do: to learn about all that IS, as it is, and to then choose what force the individual prefers to align with. In short, Lama Sing seems to be saying that closing one’s eyes to the reality of the world, is somewhat of a self-violation and the self will then manifest events in the life in an effort to get the conscious mind to wake up to the lessons at hand. We suffer until we wake up and learn how not to suffer.

Another point is this: if I try to “change” someone else either by praying for their salvation, or sending love and light to surround or “bind” them, whether it is an individual or a specific situation which can be global, I have “asked” for retaliation. By the same token, if those of darkness seek to impose their will on me in some aggressive or hurtful way have, according to Divine Law, asked for me to “respond” or, at the very least, refuse this domination. I have the right to say no, and to say it in whatever way is necessary to achieve my freedom from domination.

[...]

The fact becomes apparent, [...] that when we attempt to “save” others because we have judged them to be in need of saving, or even if we attempt to “save” ourselves because we have judged ourselves to be imperfect, or incapable of supporting a realization of the world as it really IS, we literally are opening the door to, and inviting in the forces of darkness.

But what is crucially important in the above remarks is that “you can then use all those forces available to you, which are the forces of God, ...“ Now, of course, even doing this is predicated upon having been directly violated by the individual you wish to “bind”. It seems pretty clear that to do it on behalf of another who may not have asked for such assistance, or, even if they did ask with words, are not really asking in their hearts, is to invite disaster upon yourself. Moreover, if a human being - or even a group of human beings - seeks to act in this manner toward avery powerful being of darkness wherein there is no ability to either believe or sustain the belief, even greater disaster can ensue. But still, we have here a very interesting clue about the nature of Universal Law.

[...]

Further, he has stated quite boldly that the operation of the forces of darkness in opposition to the forces of light IS the natural function of the realm of Earth and mankind. He states explicitly that the forces of darkness claim the minds and emotions of mankind as their own because the “will of Man” has chosen this. In other words, couching his remarks in terms that won’t scare the bejeebies out of the readers, Lama Sing has said we are in a real situation here! And the logical understanding of this leads us to the idea that, if it is the “will of Man,” in the sense of the mass mind, mass emotion, that is controlled intentionally and subliminally by the forces of darkness, then for single individuals, or even small groups of individuals, to attempt to violate this will by imposing their ideas of salvation or transforming or destroying or doing away with this darkness, they are, in effect, just asking for retaliation by the very forces they are attempting to overcome. A real Catch 22, you might say.

[...]

In other words, there are creators and destroyers. We live in a world controlled by darkness due to some mass mind choice in the distant “past”. We gave permission to the darkness to rule our minds. And they do not willingly give way that which has been their claim, their kingdom. The “will of Man,” in the sense of the mass mind, mass emotion, is controlled intentionally and subliminally by the forces of darkness. The world is under the control of an Evil Magician!

In the end, after reading through Lama Sing’s remarks on the subject juxtaposed against Eva’s understanding of them, I realized that we were on different wavelengths now. I had lived so long in the confidence of a rapport between us that this was a veiy painful realization. I could see disaster in her future if she didn’t open her eyes and mind to serious and dedicated searching for the subtle subtext in all these channeled pronouncements she was buying into, but I also knew I couldn’t tell her. I felt totally alone at this point.
As it turned out, I was correct in my predictions about her future, though I never voiced them to her directly. And Lama Sing was correct that people have to experience the results of living in darkness in order to learn. Nobody can teach what is not ready to be learned. And to try to destroy or change another person’s choices or perspective or work or lessons is to align with the darkness! What a tightrope!
 

Ruth

The Living Force
Nell-Li said:
Some were brave enough to point out that they fall under the second type of warrior who picks sides under the victor or is lazy or procrastinates in the situation of humanity as of now( I fall under this type as well) Yet still I m thankful there are still many of the frist type of warriors who we all see here at SOTT and around the world...but few.
Hi Nell-Li, well your situation with your brother tends to say that you fall under the first type of warrior, rather than the second. Persuading people to "see" or even listen sometimes, is an absolute headache and yes, they would rather stick their heads in the sand in order to keep their cherished Matrix fantasies. I have family like that too. It sometimes feels like I am beating my head against a brick wall... So, I try to take that analogy of "butterfly wings" and hope that my head hurts a little less when trying to 'convince' people. The smallest thing can often set off a chain reaction. Sometimes that makes looking like a complete lunatic worthwhile.

When trying to 'wake people up', we need to be aware of the free will angle, and also of Karma. Perhaps timing is also a factor; as it just may not be the right time for a person to "see". There's an awful lot of energy invested in not seeing. It's often closely associated with who and what and where we think we are.

The general public's way of sticking their heads in the sand is a very obvious way to 'tune out' from reality. These people may be so attached to their cherished illusions that they could be 'left behind': but this is their choice and they must accept the karmic responsibility for their choices. I find it quite absurd that some people (and it often seems like the whole world) would rather die than see anything confronting.
 

QueenVee

Jedi
I've been re-reading The Wave (for, like. the 5,000th time), and since the following is highly pertinent to the subject of this thread, I thought I'd post it here, just to re-iterate the FREE-WILL/ASKING issue:

To send love (or to give anything) with the intention of changing, transforming or to make anything different than what it is, is to seek DOMINATION.... Service to Others seeks to give ALL of self to others. But, because the chief thing it wishes to give is Free Will, it only gives when ASKED.... The idea that those of the STO frequency must not give without being asked is a subtle thing. The concept inherent in "asking" is that of willing exchange. The asking is the giving of the asker. The response is the giving of the askee. If there is anything in either of them that expects any change OTHER than the explicit asking and giving, the interaction falls into STS and not STO. However, if one can ask, and one can give without expectation of any change of any kind in the receiver, the STO dynamic is operational. If there is even a hidden motive that anything will be changed by the exchange, the result is damping of the STO frequency.... And then, on top of self damping, you are losing energy, because there is no willing exchange!

According to these guidelines, it is not only INEFFECTIVE to try and WAKE UP! another person when not ASKED, it is also harmful to the person seeking to do the waking, both in terms of ORIENTATION and ENERGY.

When I look back on my own efforts to "enlighten" those around me, in my younger days, I am painfully aware of the extent to which my "good intentions" were highly egocentric -- how much I was motivated by a need for others to be "like me", how much I wanted others to share the same insights out of my own "loneliness" for fellows of like mind to interact with, how much I wanted to "change" those I cared about because their "asleep" state was deeply painful to ME. Those are all very human feelings and impulses, but in the end also STS.

Holding one's tongue and waiting for another to make the CALL takes maturity, patience, and restraint. And giving what is asked for in a gentle, non-aggressive manner, takes even more self-control (and self-awareness). I believe that when my focus is primarily on what another requires and is asking for in that very moment of time, how much they are capable of absorbing, what is "best" for them (rather than on what "I" have the "desire" and "need" to give and share and bombard him with), then I'm coming from a better place -- a place that is, ultimately, in both our self-interest....
 

Alana

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
anart said:
It sounds like you came away with a pretty good understanding of the article and the comments, and for the purposes of the article, the 'waking others up' really speaks more to spreading the information about the Fascist legislation and spreading the truth about the world and this country so that people have a chance to wake up. It really doesn't deal with spreading esoteric truths, although it could certainly lead to that for people who are inherently drawn to such things on their own - for those people who 'have it in them to do it'.
I agree with anart here Nell-Li. The article is about waking up those who want to, to the reality of the situation we live in. Which might not be so clear for all to see, given all the lies the media spreads around to hide the true motives of those in power. This Homegrown Prevention act for example, is promoted as "being for your own good folks! for your protection!".

The spreading of esoteric truths can be dangerous both for ourselves, who are riding the self-importance stick thinking that "our newfound wisdom" will save the world, and the targets of our "saving", who like your brother (or mine in my case), might not be ready yet - or ever - to receive it and thus push them away of ever searching themselves, if we present it wrong - which might be the case, it was for me. As Cyre says, it might be best if you suggest books to your brother from the psychology reading list, though don't have expectations. It is true that most who study psychology never get to learn about psychopathy - only in passing - or about narcissism and dissociative states in a way that can help the individual see it in themselves or protect themselves from other's manipulations. He might find it interesting, but also might not. Like everybody else said, it's up to him.

For what is worth...
 

Nell-Li

The Force is Strong With This One
Thanks all for responding, I m still absorbing what you guys have written down. I've decided to try a different approach then just telling others the way things are spelled out for me. Thanks for pointing out that we could be pushing others away while in our self-importance, think we are some how helping them, when they obviously don't want none of it. Like most of this info on the site, a very thin line to tell the difference from what is right for both members of the interaction. I will try to add more as I learn more.
 

Johnno

The Living Force
I'm bumping this up. Some of the forum are experiencing problems with "carrying on".

Lots of page views, so I'll sticky it in the links section.
 

paralleloscope

The Living Force
Good call Johnno, very timely.

I am guilty, and have been driving hard with this friend who asked me to have an open rapport about Self developing ideas, but not with his heart. I gave up on expecting change some while back, but 'I' seem to have resumed my relentless saviour and martyr programs :evil:
Ech! I feel bad and foolish for depriving him of potential lessons, however harmful that sleep is.
 
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