How to interact with other?

[go2]

This ‘friend’ like most people I go with are quite ponerized. Last time I checked when he was out partying, he pissed with a bunch of other guys over a girl who was lying on the ground because she couldn’t handle the amount of alcohol she had taken.

You call it shocking, But really almost everybody laughed, saying how awesome that was. And to be exactly he wasn’t the one who started it, he just joined in. With his cell phone, just like many they took photo’s he even tried to show it me. But I passed that one. Just shaking my head. Such an event had a lot of people hearing about it. And most were all so exited when they told each other. ‘Did you hear that…..’ All laughing there head off.

Hi Bjorn, Urinating on an unconscious women and passing around video of this degradation is a crime. Hear that, Bjorn…not “quite ponerized” or “narcissistic”, but CRIMINAL. Sexual humiliation of a helpless human being is rape and torture. You do not mention the woman who was abused. You should stand in the shoes of the young woman who was the victim of this crime and ask yourself how you would feel if it were you, unconscious on the floor, while a group of thugs pissed on you. As you did not notify the authorities, thereby aiding and abetting your criminal friends, you are complicit in this crime.

 

[knowledge_of_self]

I think using Don Juan’s analogy of the petty tyrant is just an excuse for you in your mind to justify hanging around with ponorized and narcissistic individuals. One thing to note about Castaneda and Don Juan is that they were both dealing with their petty tyrants, after a long way towards knowing themselves and the work. It sounds to me like you’re not very familiar with yourself or the work. You say you have been doing the work but as Oxajil said, just reading some books doesn’t mean you’re doing the work. You must apply the knowledge you learn. For example, what have you learned about narcissism? And does the idea of ponorized/narcissistic people and environment appeal to you?

You have said here:

There are cases of undercover agents who for years, try to find acceptance into joining high level psychopathic organizations. Let’s say the mafia. They play there role until it’s no longer necessary. When only they have enough evidence to neutralize them, they act.

What control, discipline, forbearance and timing they have. That's my goal.

While I understand what Don Juan means by a warrior’s control, discipline, forbearance and timing, I don’t sense any of those in the way you act towards your friends. And also, you must know that you’re not a secret agent or anything of a sort. You ARE narcissistic just like they are. And there is an old saying that goes, “you dance with the devil, the devil don’t change. The devil changes you.” This, in this case is a lot more likely than you having an effect on them.
I think you need to look at the idea of the petty tyrant more openly. We are surrounded by petty tyrants in our daily lives. Whether it is, parents, family members, spouses, children, employers, co-workers, teachers, acquaintances, or friends in one way or another you will deal with petty tyrants within those people in your life. To surround yourself with narcissistic individuals on purpose and tell yourself that you will treat them as petty tyrants is imo arrogant if nothing else. You are basically saying to the universe, I can handle everything you throw at me, but I want MORE because I’m so far along the work that I NEED more petty tyrants.

I care about my parents, my little sister and brother. I need to protect them.

What you need to understand is that you need to learn who you are and how to protect yourself first. For example, what makes you think that those ‘friends’ of yours wont do what they did to that girl, or even worse to YOU or your sister? What if one night, you’ve had too much to drink and pass out, and find your self in the very same situation as the girl. By surrounding yourself with people of that nature, not only are you not protecting yourself; you’re putting your family in danger as well, imo.

But for what do I need a bond for, to share ‘trivial’ things?

What do you mean by ‘trivial’ things?

I can trust people. But only from observation. Still there ‘world’ and mine contradicts each other. There is nothing to gain. There are a lot more people who are I think are ‘good at hearth’ than they are not.
I also go along with ‘those kind’ It’s not that I am fully surrounded by narcissism. It’s more that I see them regular because of the circumstances.

Ok so from your own observation of what your friend consented to doing to that girl, does he seem right to you? Do his actions merit someone with good intentions and a good heart? And if your answer is no, and your intention is to just keep him around as a “petty tyrant”, than again please remember that his psychopathy is a lot more likely to effect you, than the ‘good’ in you effecting him.

At times I am quite social, I am not a stranger to people. But there are things who have priority.

I can be mistaken entirely, but maybe and if you can understand now:

I rather have a bond with hatred.

Those ‘friends’ are the ‘best’ I ever had.

Maybe I’m not understanding you here, but for me personally I would NEVER want a bond with hatred involved. My goal in life is to be more STO-like and to have bonds that are opposite of hatred. I want to surround myself with like-minded people who share the same goals and at least outlook on life. That there is something seriously wrong with our world and our sense of humour if we find what hurts others funny. And if those ‘friends’ are the best you’ve ever had, than you have not known true friendship and I hope that one day you will.

 

[henry]

bjorn, I agree with the others here who sense that you are using the petty tyrant excuse to cover up the real reasons you continue to associate with these people.

Life itself will throw up petty tyrants even when you do everything you can to eliminate the ones you have identified. I think you need to look seriously at the possibility that you are lying to yourself.

 

[Renaissance]

[quote author=bjorn]Saying something like that ‘out in the open’ It has the tendency to have emotional responses followed. It can be assumed that I tried to steer the discussion. Which isn’t my intention. Next time when saying something like that I will add further explanation.

[quote author=Los]And yes, expect an emotional response to this kind of violence. It is human to feel such things.[/quote]

You missed it?[/quote]

No, I didn't miss it. I wrote that partly because it didn't seem like you had much of an emotional response to a humiliating event. I don't think moving the discussion to this experience is trivial. That you see it that way is worrisome.

I also agree with others that your use of Casteneda's ideas for petty tyrants is an excuse, and I doubt it's a conscious excuse. Have you considered that there might be some old programming that put you in such an unhealthy environment? It's easy for a program to masquerade as The Work, and this is probably what happens most of the time.

[quote author=Los]Since Bjorn seemed to be justifying severe behavior by looking at his surroundings for acceptance, I think it's important to make the distinction that while such behavior can be common, that it is also a sign of the immense degree of pathological infection in our world.

Justifying?: I wish I was there, because if I would. I could take some detailed pictures myself. Later on I would had helped and advised the victim to take charges against them. I had the evidence and with that I would gladly testify in court.

When the opportunity arises I will ‘nail them to the cross’ be sure of that. [/quote]

Here is where you look to be justifying or rationalizing the situation:

The funniest thing he told me was: ‘And every guy just joined in, it was so -flicking- funny’ Just an example, He wouldn’t care about hurting my feelings.

and here:

You call it shocking, But really almost everybody laughed, saying how awesome that was. And to be exactly he wasn’t the one who started it, he just joined in.

There's a lot of contradictions in your posts. For example, are you hanging around your ponerized group for shocks or because you are trying to wake them up? Both are dangerous pursuits and suggest you're not a the level of knowledge and awareness that you think you're at. Take care of the basics first and become healthy. I doubt that can be done while staying in your current situation.

Here's another contradiction:

I care about my parents, my little sister and brother. I need to protect them.

It may look that I don’t believe in friendship I, far from it. Like Deedlet said:

[quote author=Deedlet]Again, true bonds and friendships are not overrated. They exist to help us and give us hope when we are in need

But for what do I need a bond for, to share ‘trivial’ things? [/quote]

You say you believe in friendship but in your very next sentence you ask what you need it for. It doesn't make sense to me. I could be wrong, but I don't think this is a language barrier.

Are you doing the breathing program? It could be helpful.

 

[Buddy]

In the thread that Corto Maltese referred to, I offered to bjorn the conclusion that the common denominator in his various activities was 'going on the offense against the enemy', or in bjorn's words:

Undergoing an activity for the sole reason to provoke your programs. Instead of searching they betray themselves. Finding them makes this easier.

However, bjorn I am wondering if your interpretation and use of the Petty Tyrant concept has become some kind of obsession...a 'fixed idea' or 'sacred cow' that now has to be constantly defended? Could you share some information about how this approach has helped you so far?

 

[Helle]

bjorn, I agree with the others here who sense that you are using the petty tyrant excuse to cover up the real reasons you continue to associate with these people.

Life itself will throw up petty tyrants even when you do everything you can to eliminate the ones you have identified. I think you need to look seriously at the possibility that you are lying to yourself.

I'm also waiting for a reply Bjorn, where you'll adress this potential selflying-issue, please :)

 

[Azur]

I can be mistaken entirely, but maybe and if you can understand now:

I rather have a bond with hatred.

Those ‘friends’ are the ‘best’ I ever had.

Could it be Bjorn, that your apparent small circle of interactions in your physical circumstances is defining how you see the entire World?

Your preference to bond with hatred is premature maybe, because of your likely limited exposure: you may be trying to build a model of the World from very little data, and your "friends" might not actually represent the way it is all over. Get out more, or see other people. Observe, interact and be open.

Are you unknowingly limiting what is possible because what you see in front of you is taken as representative of all possibilities?

General thoughts to keep in mind.

 

[bjorb]

[quote author=bjorn]It’s more that I see them regular because of the circumstances.[/quote]

[quote author=author]To surround yourself with narcissistic individuals on purpose[/quote]

The circumstances are my study. There is nothing happening on purpose.
The only thing I did on purpose was not to ‘cut’ them off. Meaning not avoiding him.

When being in your first year you meet up with a lot of people, all kinds of different ones. Back then I wasn’t all that aware of the knowledge presented here. The information input came a lot later.

That guy was just a part of the circumstances.


[quote author=Oxajil]bjorn, shouldn't your goal be to Know yourself? How can you try to know others if you don't even know who you are?[/quote]

[quote author=Oxajil]It is better though to first have some self-knowledge before going after any petty tyrants.[/quote]

Doesn’t this needs more information before assuming it?


I was a ’idiot’ Confusing into getting the approval from others with ‘love’. I really though that this was it.

This kind of mindset, will only confuse. All kinds of different people, all there opinions and assumptions. All kinds of different ways to get approval, Since that was all I know, than see, how easily I lost my own energy.

You easily lose yourself, you don’t have control of it, they just activate, considered the circumstances. I knew that.

Because I was unstable, and couldn’t hold my ground when being with others. I tried for a few months to get a hold to myself. When I more or less was able to do so. I decided to put it to the next level. I was easily offended, angry, sad, jealous. Interacting more with others than instead of trying to avoid them more or less. Those programs would be provoked. I lost my energy time after time.

But like I normally would do, having a strong reaction towards it. Like reacting in anger, getting self pity. Or jealously. I observed. Yet again I lost energy. But I could get a grip over it. At times this, did only improved.


Since my childhood, I had one particularly strong program in me. I couldn’t see the evil in others. Since my childhood. I always believed in everybody even if they caused pain to me. If they did I tried to understand them. At that time I never gave up on this.



[quote author=bjorn]A conversations I once had with a friend at a bar[/quote]

This was 1,5 years ago.

Just when I became to read more about genetic psychopaths, narcissism etc. I knew his behavior, He could be very rude to people, Telling them things which where just heartbreaking. Also to me. He had no problems with that. But from what I know he didn’t did anything in comparison what he did with that girl. At that time.

But like I normally would do, having a strong reaction towards it. Like reacting in anger, getting self pity. Or jealously. I observed. Yes again a lost energy. But I could get a grip over it. At times this did only improve.

I found it particularly difficult to hold my ground with him. I felt disgusted. But at the same time. Something was telling me the opposite. Causing friction.

Since my childhood, I had one particularly strong program in me. I couldn’t see the evil in others. Since my childhood. I always believed in everybody even if they caused pain to me. If they did I tried to understand them. At that time I never gave up on this.

Why couldn’t I saw narcissism right before me. This ‘evil’ that was so clear. Well I couldn’t accept it. This program which ruled me for so many years. It caused a lot of friction and being with him. When observing myself. Seeing ‘evil’ but not accepting it to myself. It was betraying itself (this program), and that’s how I could get rid of it.


[quote author=Corto Maltese]Those ‘friends’ are the ‘best’ I ever had. (EXPLAIN?)[/quote]

He gave me the right shocks in being able to see ‘evil’

[quote author=author]I rather have a bond with hatred. (EXPLAIN?)[/quote]

Shocks=hate/pain=is friction=realizing.



[quote author=bjorn]Friends, you mean having a bond.[/quote]

I didn’t repeat myself. There is a reason for this. What are friends to you? People you meet, have fun with. Nothing else? Bonds are there to feel each other pain, trying to support each other.


[quote author=Deedlet]What do you mean by ‘trivial’ things? [/quote]

[quote author=Deedlet]I want to surround myself with like-minded people who share the same goals and at least outlook on life[/quote]

What’s the opposite of that?



Hi los:

[quote author=Deedlet]Again, true bonds and friendships are not overrated. They exist to help us and give us hope when we are in need[/quote]

[quote author=bjorn]But for what do I need a bond for, to share ‘trivial’ things?[/quote]

[quote author=los]You say you believe in friendship but in your very next sentence you ask what you need it for. It doesn't make sense to me[/quote]

to follow this up:

[quote author=bjorn]Most bonds just exist so that they can feed off on each other.[/quote]

I believe in friendships, In general it’s helps people in standing aside in this world. Helping each other.

But at mine part when I am in self pity, or whatever pain it is. I rather confront it myself instead of someone telling me ‘I don’t have to’. That doesn’t mean I am always capable of this or was but I try. Also it doesn’t mean I can’t support others.



[quote author=bjorn]Justifying?: I wish I was there, because if I would. I could take some detailed pictures myself. Later on I would had helped and advised the victim to take charges against them. I had the evidence and with that I would gladly testify in court.[/quote]

[quote author=bjorn]The funniest thing he told me was: ‘And every guy just joined in, it was so -flicking- funny’ Just an example, He wouldn’t care about hurting my feelings.[/quote]

[quote author=bjorn]You call it shocking, But really almost everybody laughed, saying how awesome that was. And to be exactly he wasn’t the one who started it, he just joined in.[/quote]

'You call it shocking'.: A way of telling how psychopathic that situation was. I continue to explain the absurdity of it. That’s also why I followed it with this:

[quote author=bjorn]I think this experience of mine is also a good example about 'ponerized': [/quote]

With follows with telling the experience:

[quote author=bjorn]A while ago, some ‘friend’ was talking about that he from his girlfriend had to choose a transcription between donating some money to an animal or human foundation.
Suddenly a ‘girlfriend’ of mine jumped up and said: ‘well sorry but I wouldn’t care about those Africans, but I adore animals. It’s so funny to see those expressions from mine cat. It’s like there almost human I tell you. I love to hug her all day.

So this guy responded in well pretty much agreeing on it, even adding that animals are helpless and humans who aren’t able to feed themselves are just trash. Its evolution he said, and there is nothing sad about evolution. Than I came in, saying that there ‘love’ for animals must be one hell of a twisted one. If they couldn’t even care for humans dying a horrible death. Telling them that hugging a little cute cat is better than hugging some disgusting dying African child isn’t it.

And she laughed, saying: ‘your making me look so bad haha. Why are so mean?’ Than this ‘friend’ responded with: ‘yeah stop being such an -bad person-’ I just ended it with: ‘being with you guys really makes me feel less safe, seriously.’ And they laughed again
[/quote]

‘Is also a good example’, So this is what followed from the first.



[quote author=los]Your friends physically, and emotionally, and sexually assaulted an unconscious girl and you selfishly desire to be around them for the shock value?[/quote]

Not at all. Did I desire that to happen.
Also, almost everybody says: your ‘friends’ did that, that wasn’t the case.



Everybody kept repeating, how ‘evil’ my 'friend' is. And that I didn’t saw it. So I responded with this.

[quote author=bjorn]Justifying?: I wish I was there, because if I would. I could take some detailed pictures myself. Later on I would had helped and advised the victim to take charges against them. I had the evidence and with that I would gladly testify in court.[/quote]

It hadn’t had any effect, why I think is because when you experience a shock, you normally set it into action. ‘Real life’ Which I didn’t.



[quote author=bjorn]There are cases of undercover agents who for years, try to find acceptance into joining high level psychopathic organizations. Let’s say the mafia. They play there role until it’s no longer necessary. When only they have enough evidence to neutralize them, they act.[/quote]

Suddenly I am a secret agent, a masked avenger, I can see the direction. Don Juan did it on purpose, this example is also. But no I didn’t said or did that.



[quote author=Azur]Could it be Bjorn, that your apparent small circle of interactions in your physical circumstances is defining how you see the entire World?[/quote]

[quote author=bjorn]There are a lot more people who are I think are ‘good at hearth’ than they are not.
I also go along with ‘those kind’ It’s not that I am fully surrounded by narcissism. At times I am quite social, I am not a stranger to people [/quote]



What was said and what was assumed:

In general, I am surrounded by psychopathic people?, I ‘wish?’ they do horrible things to others so that I could get my ‘shocks’? I do this on purpose?

How was this assumed?

Most likely because of how mine posts had that tendency to tell you that.

The information was really limited. I only as for the situation explained what happened. What my life is about. not really.


Mine steer of direction was to focus on the petty tyrant, well yours was focused on ‘psychopaths, Narcissism ?

Maybe this caused some confusion?


This is my viewpoint. :)



I am in a time that I need to do a lot of studying, which I need to catch up with. Maybe I missed someone. At the time, I will be gone for probably 1 week.

 

[T.C.]

Hi bjorn

Have you ever read In Search of the Miraculous, by P. D. Ouspensky?

 

[bjorb]

[quote author=Deedlet]“you dance with the devil, the devil don’t change. The devil changes you.”[/quote]

[quote author=Deedlet]Ok so from your own observation of what your friend consented to doing to that girl, does he seem right to you? Do his actions merit someone with good intentions and a good heart? And if your answer is no, and your intention is to just keep him around as a “petty tyrant”, than again please remember that his psychopathy is a lot more likely to effect you, than the ‘good’ in you effecting him.[/quote]

Maybe I have some programs in stock, justifying it. This to not confront myself?

I did fall in such programs, a example:

Some story of a similar kind is told to certain people when in a group, everybody laughs. I didn’t found it funny, which to me I began to have doubts to myself. Finding myself awkward. Which results in me justifying it. Saying to myself it isn’t ‘evil’

It was part of mine intentions to not fall in such programs. Maybe I overlooked something. It’s possible. Because that’s what I did most of the time.



[quote author=Deedlet]What do you mean by ‘trivial’ things?[/quote]

[quote author=Deedlet]I want to surround myself with like-minded people who share the same goals and at least outlook on life[/quote]

Because I am in such a routine for a very long time, Maybe it will be better to cut of those ties entirely with them. This week it left me wondering. How do I really know I didn’t lose a part of mine ‘humanity’

I guess being around with people who are ‘good at hearth’ I will be confronted with that.

That’s something I will do.



With you all not responding, it left me wondering. Did I missed something. Everybody tried to get me focused on ‘what are you doing, keeping those people around you. that dangerous!!!’ When I just rejected it, saying: ‘it was for my own good’ Maybe it was that I in such a way contradicting myself, and that I couldn't even see it myself. You didn’t saw use in it. To show me?

I try to keep all cards on the table. As far as I am able.
I know there really is a significance in this forum, at everything that is shared here.
I think most will think of me of this horrible person. I knew that most likely would happen, when I began to tell all of this.
I am sorry for this. I don’t feel good about it. But as far as I know I am not here to proof anything. This is my situation.
I try to give it my all, I don’t think I can do it alone.



You told everything that was necessary. Realisations are personal. You can’t force that. I guess that was a part, why you all didn’t respond at all.

Thanks

 

[R4D4]

[quote author=Deedlet]“you dance with the devil, the devil don’t change. The devil changes you.”

[quote author=Deedlet]Ok so from your own observation of what your friend consented to doing to that girl, does he seem right to you? Do his actions merit someone with good intentions and a good heart? And if your answer is no, and your intention is to just keep him around as a “petty tyrant”, than again please remember that his psychopathy is a lot more likely to effect you, than the ‘good’ in you effecting him.[/quote]

Maybe I have some programs in stock, justifying it. This to not confront myself?

I did fall in such programs, a example:

Some story of a similar kind is told to certain people when in a group, everybody laughs. I didn’t found it funny, which to me I began to have doubts to myself. Finding myself awkward. Which results in me justifying it. Saying to myself it isn’t ‘evil’

It was part of mine intentions to not fall in such programs. Maybe I overlooked something. It’s possible. Because that’s what I did most of the time.



[quote author=Deedlet]What do you mean by ‘trivial’ things?[/quote]

[quote author=Deedlet]I want to surround myself with like-minded people who share the same goals and at least outlook on life[/quote]

Because I am in such a routine for a very long time, Maybe it will be better to cut of those ties entirely with them. This week it left me wondering. How do I really know I didn’t lose a part of mine ‘humanity’

I guess being around with people who are ‘good at hearth’ I will be confronted with that.

That’s something I will do.



With you all not responding, it left me wondering. Did I missed something. Everybody tried to get me focused on ‘what are you doing, keeping those people around you. that dangerous!!!’ When I just rejected it, saying: ‘it was for my own good’ Maybe it was that I in such a way contradicting myself, and that I couldn't even see it myself. You didn’t saw use in it. To show me?

I try to keep all cards on the table. As far as I am able.
I know there really is a significance in this forum, at everything that is shared here.
I think most will think of me of this horrible person. I knew that most likely would happen, when I began to tell all of this.
I am sorry for this. I don’t feel good about it. But as far as I know I am not here to proof anything. This is my situation.
I try to give it my all, I don’t think I can do it alone.



You told everything that was necessary. Realisations are personal. You can’t force that. I guess that was a part, why you all didn’t respond at all.

Thanks
[/quote]

Bjorn, i don't think anyone here thinks you are an horrible person. They just don't agree with the way you are doing the work on yourself with shocks and petty tyrants. Maybe you need a diffrent approach?

Your story reminds me of the men who tried to stone to death a prostitute when Jesus intervened and stopped them, only your story is worst, because there was nobody to stop an helpless woman already on the ground and that was mistreated badly by your friends. I think most will agree here that you don't need their useless friendship for the work on yourself and so called shocks.

Try next time to oppose yourself to your so called friends and their innaceptable behavior and you will see them turning against you and becoming your enemies. You will then have what you are looking for : Petty tyrants and the shocks that will come along with it.

 

[Buddy]

I try to keep all cards on the table. As far as I am able.
I know there really is a significance in this forum, at everything that is shared here.
I think most will think of me of this horrible person. I knew that most likely would happen, when I began to tell all of this.
I am sorry for this. I don’t feel good about it. But as far as I know I am not here to proof anything. This is my situation.
I try to give it my all, I don’t think I can do it alone.

Hi bjorn.
When I read this, my heart wanted to reach out to you. For what it's worth, I don't see you as a horrible person. Like you, I had similar beliefs about how everyone was basically good and so whenever I was hurt, it must have been my fault.

The only reason I haven't talked to you more is that I have a hard time following your thinking so that I can 'see the soul' behind the words, or 'connect with you' the way your words/thoughts flow. [and I realize this is probably all subjective anyway - just my way of explaining myself]. Your English is fine and there is something I like about the way you write, but my limitation is in being able to understand what you are really ASKing. My apologies for that.

 

[knowledge_of_self]

Hi bjorn.
When I read this, my heart wanted to reach out to you. For what it's worth, I don't see you as a horrible person. Like you, I had similar beliefs about how everyone was basically good and so whenever I was hurt, it must have been my fault.

The only reason I haven't talked to you more is that I have a hard time following your thinking so that I can 'see the soul' behind the words, or 'connect with you' the way your words/thoughts flow. [and I realize this is probably all subjective anyway - just my way of explaining myself]. Your English is fine and there is something I like about the way you write, but my limitation is in being able to understand what you are really ASKing. My apologies for that.

Fwiw, I also think very similarly to buddy. I also don’t see you as a horrible person. I just think you might not have a firm understanding on some key topics, such as the “petty tyrant.” And it’s not something that can’t be remedied with more knowledge input & DO-ing.. I do have a bit of trouble understanding you at times, but don’t worry I’ll always ask for clarification if I need it. :)

[quote author=Deedlet]“you dance with the devil, the devil don’t change. The devil changes you.”

[quote author=Deedlet]Ok so from your own observation of what your friend consented to doing to that girl, does he seem right to you? Do his actions merit someone with good intentions and a good heart? And if your answer is no, and your intention is to just keep him around as a “petty tyrant”, than again please remember that his psychopathy is a lot more likely to effect you, than the ‘good’ in you effecting him.[/quote]

Maybe I have some programs in stock, justifying it. This to not confront myself?

I did fall in such programs, a example:

Some story of a similar kind is told to certain people when in a group, everybody laughs. I didn’t found it funny, which to me I began to have doubts to myself. Finding myself awkward. Which results in me justifying it. Saying to myself it isn’t ‘evil’

It was part of mine intentions to not fall in such programs. Maybe I overlooked something. It’s possible. Because that’s what I did most of the time. [/quote]

I, like many have made mistakes that I’m not proud of. When I look back on situations where I know I was completely ‘asleep’ and incapable of doing anything about what was happening. I sometimes visualize so many different outcomes, if I had acted differently… but things will never change in the past no matter how much you wish them to. The only thing you can do is look to the future, and hope that you learn your lessons from those instances you wish never to repeat.

If you come across a similar situation would you choose to step in and protect the victim of the circumstance and be the voice of conscience? Or would you choose to stand and watch, for the “shock value?” The universe will present you with more ‘tests’ where you can choose how you will act, in favour of your BE-ing or non-being.

I always try and put my own understandings/actions under the microscope. I try and fix my understandings on topics that someone tells me I’ve misunderstood. Like the “Petty tyrant” issue. You need to put your understanding of the petty tyrant under the microscope and be “open”. If you can see like others can how your view is a bit skewed, try to understand why it is that way and mend it.

Because I am in such a routine for a very long time, Maybe it will be better to cut of those ties entirely with them. This week it left me wondering. How do I really know I didn’t lose a part of mine ‘humanity’

I can’t tell you what to do, all I can say is if I were you I wouldn’t surround myself with individuals who lack a conscience. I don’t know how close you are with them or the nature of your relationship, all I know is losing your ‘humanity’ is at stake if you choose to interact with people who lack a conscience.

I try to give it my all, I don’t think I can do it alone.

You're not alone bjorn. We're all learning like you. I'm not sure if you've answered this before, but have you read any of the Big 5 recommended books by QFS on the topic of narcissism? If you haven't, they are a GREAT way to learn more about yourself, your blocks and the dynamics you're involved in with your friends.

Cheers~

 

[Gertrudes]

Bjorn, a lot has already been said, and I don't have much to add except for a few thoughts as, most things have already been said:

But as far as I know I am not here to proof anything. This is my situation.
I try to give it my all, I don’t think I can do it alone.

And that is why you are sharing this , so that you don't have to do it alone.


You mentioned

Since my childhood, I had one particularly strong program in me. I couldn’t see the evil in others. Since my childhood. I always believed in everybody even if they caused pain to me. If they did I tried to understand them. At that time I never gave up on this.
Why couldn’t I saw narcissism right before me. This ‘evil’ that was so clear. Well I couldn’t accept it. This program which ruled me for so many years. It caused a lot of friction and being with him. When observing myself. Seeing ‘evil’ but not accepting it to myself. It was betraying itself (this program), and that’s how I could get rid of it.

I also know that program well. And I wonder whether it wouldn't be some bitterness caused by the shocks of the realization that evil does exist that is keeping you in your current relationships? It seems that your friends are for you a tool of study, In your words

“you dance with the devil, the devil don’t change. The devil changes you.”

I agree that most, if not all relationships have a feeding dynamic, and what we are striving for in this 3D world is to balance the feeding. You give and I give, that can be called sharing. Living in a ponerised feeding dynamic will not make you understand it better, it will more likely turn you into one of such predators. There is something about living in those environments that somehow numbs the senses and an individual becomes less sensitive and alert to what really is going on. It seems to me that you might be underestimating that. Experiencing healthy relationships has, on the other hand, the potential to help the participants recognize the symptoms of feeding, help them make the necessary changes and grow.

bjorn, I agree with the others here who sense that you are using the petty tyrant excuse to cover up the real reasons you continue to associate with these people.

Life itself will throw up petty tyrants even when you do everything you can to eliminate the ones you have identified. I think you need to look seriously at the possibility that you are lying to yourself.

I think it will help you to question yourself with honesty why exactly you are in this relationship, but I noticed that in your last post something was changing in you and you might just need some time to collect your thoughts.

Deedlet's suggestion of the 5 psychology books from the suggested reading is also great advice

 

[bjorb]

I was outside the country for a few days.



[quote author=Deedlet] I don’t know how close you are with them or the nature of your relationship[/quote]

The circumstances of my study is actually the only thing what holds it together. I know and go with other ‘kinds’


[quote author=Getrudes]He might be helping you to see evil, but can that be called a friendship?[/quote]

[quote author=bjorn]I rather have a bond with hatred.[/quote]

[quote author=bjorn]Shocks=hate/pain=is friction=realizing.[/quote]

[quote author=Getrudes]It seems that your friends are for you a tool of study, In your words[/quote]

Yes, that was part of the intention so far as I know.



Yes I know some people who have a ‘good hearth’ I am close with my family. But how close can I get. I can release my hearth to them but not my mind. I tried. But there is no way in reaching them. I can be considered to have ‘my crazy moments’ or to ‘be to intertwined with world affairs’ However, that doesn’t really bother me.

Because I am unable to reach them. Somehow I feel guilty with being with them. I do not feel the same with those ‘psychopathic’ people. I feel like I have nothing to lose against them.

I have become quite independent. With that I mean. I can be ‘myself’ without getting confused what others my think about me. Act against me. I can hold my own. Which was my goal.

Maybe they where useful to me. Maybe the opposite. Maybe it goes both ways. What is now I think it’s not necessary to be with them.



[quote author=Deedlet]If you come across a similar situation would you choose to step in and protect the victim of the circumstance and be the voice of conscience? Or would you choose to stand and watch, for the “shock value?[/quote]

[quote author=bjorn]Justifying?: I wish I was there, because if I would. I could take some detailed pictures myself. Later on I would had helped and advised the victim to take charges against them. I had the evidence and with that I would gladly testify in court.[/quote]

I wasn't there. But if I was there. Than I think I would.



[quote author=Buddy]Your English is fine[/quote]

I wouldn’t know. I am dyslexic. It may not be the same for all who suffer from it. But part of mine autistic ‘weakness’ is, to just give one example, seeing the difference between ‘present time’ and ‘past time’. And that’s just basic. I have to know which words are. I have a hard time by actually learning this. The why. I can but it may be your explanation and how your mind may work it does not for mine. I have to translate it for my own.

Reading and writing. It takes a lot of time for me. It’s annoying.

I have no such awareness for it, I am glad to hear that my English is fine.



[quote author=Deedlet]but have you read any of the Big 5[/quote]

Back then it where the big 4


[quote author=TC]Have you ever read In Search of the Miraculous, by P. D. Ouspensky?[/quote]

Some time ago.