Hyper-projection of sex in modern society.

[Adaryn]

What about, if in the pursuit of this spirituality one denies there partner sex, the reason cited being, 'I want to concentrate on the spiritual, not the physical.' Let us assume that in this case both are not seeking sex as a means of possession of the other person or using the other person for self gratification but just an innocent desire to 'make love as it were.' - to be together in a physical way. But one partner constantly denies the other this maybe because they think it'll hinder there own personal spiritual growth. Can this be seen as acting in an STS way?

Absolutely. It's inner considering.

Yes, and a sign that there's no colinearity between these 2 persons. In that case, their 'conflicting views' about sex would seem to me to merely be the expression of the lack of love and understanding between them. OSIT.

 

[Joe]

What about, if in the pursuit of this spirituality one denies there partner sex, the reason cited being, 'I want to concentrate on the spiritual, not the physical.'

I don't think doing this would be concentrating on the spiritual. It would be concentrating on the self at the expense of the one we profess to love.


[quote author=luke wilson]Let us assume that in this case both are not seeking sex as a means of possession of the other person or using the other person for self gratification but just an innocent desire to 'make love as it were.' - to be together in a physical way. [/quote]

If two people have achieve what you describe here they have already achieved a lot I think. This is already an example of the 'spiritualisation of matter'.

[quote author=luke wilson]But one partner constantly denies the other this maybe because they think it'll hinder there own personal spiritual growth. [/quote]

Again, I don't think someone who had achieved the level of " not seeking sex as a means of possession of the other person or using the other person for self gratification but just an innocent desire to 'make love as it were.' - to be together in a physical way" would even think the way you are describing. When two people who have done enough work on themselves that they are able to let go of their own self-consciousness, self-focus, and just be with each other in the way you describe, sex is no longer just about "being together in a physical way".

[quote author=luke wilson]Can this be seen as acting in an STS way? [/quote]

I'd say so, I think your just talking about your average STS person who thinks they are being spiritual but is totally misunderstanding what that means.

[quote author=luke wilson]Also if this partner, lets say gives in and 'sacrifices' his perceived spiritual growth by having sex with his/her lover so as to not neglect them or there love, then in a wicked twist of events this might be seen as an act of STO?? I know the logic is flawed in there somewhere, please point out the mistake, anyone - [/quote]

I can't imagine two people who are able to truly love each other ever thinking this way.

[quote author=luke wilson]there is no way having sex can be an STO thing regardless of any situation - right?! Maybe sex in its purest form surpasses both STOness and STSness...? [/quote]

I don't think it is correct to say that. It all comes down to how much work a person has done on purifying their "centers", i.e. getting rid of lies and illusions to the self. Having said that, you do understand that we, as STS beings, are STS, therefore everything we do is infused with self-centeredness, right? As such, why are you thinking about STOness in terms of sex only? Why not ask yourself the question "Is there any way that ANYTHING I do can be STO?"

Maybe you are thinking that sex is a consummately STS thing to do? Moreso than other things?

[quote author=luke wilson]What I am getting at, even if sex, is done in a physical way, surely there is more that goes on than just physical chemistry, surely the souls of the individuals must interact someway. So sex is not entirely a physical thing, there is also abit of spiritualism going on??? [Does that sound right?] I think in some of the transcripts the c's and maybe Ra talks about all kinds of energies being transmuted through this physical act so yah am pretty sure it is more than just physical. [/quote]

Again, do you not believe that "energies" are transferred between people in many other ways too? As far as soul interaction during sex, I'd say that would depend on to what extent a person was able to interact with their own soul when alone. What if they don't have a soul?

[quote author=luke wilson]Is it possible that it serves a greater spiritual purpose than a physical one and maybe the female energy that was lead astray by the lizzies before the fall thought that by seeking out more physicality in experiencing 'sex' they would grow spiritually? So in short, as a tool for greater spiritual growth or spiritual learning be it through increased physicality. Obviously they were unaware that a trap had been set and 'sex' was just the bait (Abit speculative but I wonder if that makes sense) [/quote]

I think the main tool by which we grow is lessons through the experiences we have here in 3D, which includes sex.

[quote author=luke wilson]Is it possible that when sexual drive goes down and men start pursuing more spritual matters as is written on the posted C transcript, then in some cases, this could enhance STS-ness in that this pursuit of spiritualism might be for example used as a means to serve the self and maybe in such a case denying ones partner sex could result as a source of food, from all the negative energies that will arise...[/quote]

I think it could enhance STSness in the sense that it is clearly focusing on the self and exhibiting a puritanical mind set which, I understand, is entirely misguided.

[quote author=luke wilson]Maybe ultimate etherialism/spirituality is not necessarily a good thing, maybe a good balance between physicality and spiritualism is a much more optimal condition as compared to being on either extreme of these 2 states....[/quote]

I think we are trying to avoid extremism across the board.

[quote author=luke wilson]Obviously it goes without saying, that sex for the purpose of sex with just anyone can be detrimental and one can walk away with all sorts of attachments as mentioned before on this thread. The 2 partners I am referring to in my hypothetical situation are ones with a mutual understanding, complimentary frequencies, paired-souls, in love etc etc [/quote]

It doesn't sound to me like those two people have mutual understanding if one if thinking about with-holding sex from the other in the interest of his or her own "spiritual growth".

[quote author=luke wilson]Hmm, now that i think of it, sex might not dissappear as people get more and more concerned about spirituality. It might just transform. It appears to me the desire between female and male energies are a fundamental part of nature (dare I say something greater/more than just a physical craving). So it might not dissappear, it might just transform i.e. the factors under-pinning the desires eg self-gratification, possession might simply change/transform into something else but sex the act itself will remain atleast whilst we can still experience abit of physicality be it here or 4D, be it STO or STS....[/quote]

I think people have a very mistaken idea about "spirituality", and that it is just a variation of the teaching of mainstream religion. Before we can be spiritual we have to first be truly human. In fact, whose to say that simply relearning to be purely human is not the extent of the "spiritualness" that we can attain in 3D? Most people, damaged and traumatised with all sorts of wounds and denied parts of themselves, would like to skip the part where they have to regain their normal humanness and go straight to their misguided understanding of what it is to be spiritual. They have all sorts of lofty ideas in their heads which most often, as is evidenced in the case you cite, just leads them to be more self-centered.

 

[luke wilson]

Quote from Perceval

It all comes down to how much work a person has done on purifying their "centers", i.e. getting rid of lies and illusions to the self. Having said that, you do understand that we, as STS beings, are STS, therefore everything we do is infused with self-centeredness, right? As such, why are you thinking about STOness in terms of sex only? Why not ask yourself the question "Is there any way that ANYTHING I do can be STO?"

Uhmm, I dont know why I am thinking of STOness in terms of sex only. I suppose in this thread it is because sex is the subject being discussed. But to be honest, I havent really ever thought about STOness in terms of anything else maybe other than sex in this context. I have always thought it is best not to interfere with other people's choices and free-will decisions be it true free will or perceived free will as it's hard/wrong to claim to be in a better position than the next person(in this context) thus using this to give oneself the right to make there decisions for them or influence there life without there consent. I dont know how you can be truely STO without not thinking about some sort of reward that you might get from your sacrifice or without wanting to correct something that you think is wrong. I read somewhere that it is dangerous to be or to act on ones self-rightiousness... Maybe as we are STS beings as you state then it is impossible to be STO to even the tiniest degree. Maybe we are all STS to the same degree ultimately???? Maybe the difference is that some people are proud of it whilst others recognise and are ashamed of there STSness and try and mask it and thus by doing so, they think they are becoming more STO?. I dont really know.

A good example is maybe a charity or people who are involved with charities.. By all outward appearances they appear to act in an STO way. Right? They are always fighting for other peoples rights and stuff. But if it is impossible to be STO then surely there is a deception lying here somewhere, there is an element of STSness that has been hidden from view thus creating an image of STOness....??? Maybe that is why despite all there good intentions, nothing actually ever changes, it just seems to get worse cumulatively.

Maybe you are thinking that sex is a consummately STS thing to do? Moreso than other things?

Uhmm, I wouldnt say that I think sex is a consummately STS thing to do... But I do think that in our reality it is the ultimate expression of STSness for your average person. But as we are STS beings, I dont think sex is a bad thing, maybe it's just another experience that can help people learn??? After all I think the C's say life is one big school and everything is a lesson of some sort... I hope I am not contradicting myself here...

Again, do you not believe that "energies" are transferred between people in many other ways too?

Hmm, am sure that energies are transferred between people in other ways. The only example I can think of is the feeding and transfering of energies between people in there everyday social interactions... But maybe if you are fed on or feed upon another person as a result of a social interaction, maybe the energy doesnt pack the same degree of punch as when you feed or are fed from in a sexual context??? I dont know, again I am just speculating... How can a person begin to come up with answers to such a question???

As far as soul interaction during sex, I'd say that would depend on to what extent a person was able to interact with their own soul when alone. What if they don't have a soul?

Hmm maybe in this context people who dont have souls have less to lose so they can lets say do things that would be harmful to a souled individual without really feeling the full brunt of the consequences on there consciousness??? Am I wrong in thinking the ultimate prize is a soul and whatever games are being played, the ultimate goal has to do with something related to souls, whatever they are??? I particularly find it hard talking or thinking about souls as I dont really know what they are - hard to describe in words and conceptualize. To answer your question, if a souled individual is having sex with a non-souled individual say an OP, then I dont know what happens... Clearly there is no interactions of souls going on as there is only 1 soul present. Maybe exchanges or interactions of other forms of energy???

If a person cant interact with there own soul when alone, then for them they could think they have no soul, basically sell it out or off to the nearest bidder without a second thought. Claiming ignorance I dont think offers much soul protection. Just makes you an easier target to the predator.

I think people have a very mistaken idea about "spirituality", and that it is just a variation of the teaching of mainstream religion. Before we can be spiritual we have to first be truly human. In fact, whose to say that simply relearning to be purely human is not the extent of the "spiritualness" that we can attain in 3D? Most people, damaged and traumatised with all sorts of wounds and denied parts of themselves, would like to skip the part where they have to regain their normal humanness and go straight to their misguided understanding of what it is to be spiritual. They have all sorts of lofty ideas in their heads which most often, as is evidenced in the case you cite, just leads them to be more self-centered.

Yes I agree that it is very easy to have the wrong idea about spirituality. Personally for me, spirituality is a vague idea, just like the idea of the soul. I know they exist but I can't describe what form or shape they take as I dont have enough knowledge or information about them and I dont really have the means of describing them, I dont know if words do them justice.

Yes I also agree that being truly human as in mending our broken machines is a big enough challenge for one lifetime and that one cannot really understand spiritualism if one is not truly human. Maybe re-learning to be purely human is the extent of spiritualness one can achieve in 3D as you say. Maybe that is our goal??? Seems like a nice goal to have. Obviously being truly human is easier said than done especially when no one has any idea of what a true human looks like??? How is one meant to have a conception of a true human when you cant have any real thing to base it on... All that is available are peoples descriptions of what they think a true human is but nothing is solid.. They could be wrong?? As far as I am aware no true human (adamic man) has walked this planet since the fall. The only true humans about are pre-adamic man, the OPs. All potentially/souled individuals are broken as a result of the fall and as a result are clearly at a disadvantage to their OP counterparts... That is how I see it. Again, more speculation on my part based on things I have read...

 

[luke wilson]

I made an error in my post that I'd like to correct (atleast 1 that I could see).

As far as soul interaction during sex, I'd say that would depend on to what extent a person was able to interact with their own soul when alone. What if they don't have a soul?

I said that only 1 soul is present if a souled individual has sex with an OP. Technically there is only 1 soul present but there is also the collective energy pool from which the OPs get there energy from present. I think I read a thread on the forum somewhere where Laura or someone else was describing and talking about where OPs get there energy from and the conclusion was they have a collective energy pool[just like that of animals] instead of individual souls. So the souled person whilst having sex with an OP will be interacting with this energy pool somehow..??? Maybe that is why women who say they have had sex with a pyschopath say it was amazing. Because there energies(soul) were interacting with a MASSIVE collective OP energy pool and afterwards they maybe feel like they have been put through 12 rounds of a boxing fight???. Hmm, does that sound plausible?? But then again, I wonder who comes off better/worse in such an interaction, not necessarily with a pyschopath but just your everyday average OP. I certainly dont know, maybe someone here does. If I had to guess, i'd say the souled individual gets the short end of the stick especially if they deny or neglect there soul in everyday life...

 

[Joe]

Yes I also agree that being truly human as in mending our broken machines is a big enough challenge for one lifetime and that one cannot really understand spiritualism if one is not truly human. Maybe re-learning to be purely human is the extent of spiritualness one can achieve in 3D as you say. Maybe that is our goal??? Seems like a nice goal to have. Obviously being truly human is easier said than done especially when no one has any idea of what a true human looks like??? How is one meant to have a conception of a true human when you cant have any real thing to base it on... All that is available are peoples descriptions of what they think a true human is but nothing is solid.. They could be wrong?? As far as I am aware no true human (adamic man) has walked this planet since the fall. The only true humans about are pre-adamic man, the OPs. All potentially/souled individuals are broken as a result of the fall and as a result are clearly at a disadvantage to their OP counterparts... That is how I see it. Again, more speculation on my part based on things I have read...

For me, to be 'truly human' means ridding ourselves of all of the lies and illusions, current and past life traumas etc. that we have collected within our minds and hearts and souls (if present) over the years. Maybe getting back to the original human state, or rather, achieving it for the first time in a long time, is the only goal we can aspire to because:

a) it is clearly an issue and needs to be done

b) it seems to be the only thing that is truly within our grasp to do

 

[Buddy]

I dont know how you can be truely STO without not thinking about some sort of reward that you might get from your sacrifice or without wanting to correct something that you think is wrong. I read somewhere that it is dangerous to be or to act on ones self-rightiousness... Maybe as we are STS beings as you state then it is impossible to be STO to even the tiniest degree. Maybe we are all STS to the same degree ultimately????

So far as I have been able to tell, the main problem with thinking of any acts that we perform as pure STO is due to the inner recognition of self-reinforcing feedback loops. To me, the model of reality we accept makes the possibility of 'pure' STO allowable, but probably only at the point where there is no 'self' in the originator that benefits in any way. I'm still working on this thought, though. It's just that we have to try something in order to be STO candidates, osit.

Maybe the difference is that some people are proud of it whilst others recognise and are ashamed of there STSness and try and mask it and thus by doing so, they think they are becoming more STO?. I dont really know.

Actually, I think you may be on to something there and I'll explain why in the next part:

A good example is maybe a charity or people who are involved with charities.. By all outward appearances they appear to act in an STO way. Right? They are always fighting for other peoples rights and stuff. But if it is impossible to be STO then surely there is a deception lying here somewhere, there is an element of STSness that has been hidden from view thus creating an image of STOness....???

That's exactly right, osit. The deception involves an individual expressing what G calls 'sympathy to the self', or what the Sufi's refer to as 'sentimentality'. The action feeds the individual's self-important sense of being "a good man", or "doing the right thing" from the social reality point of view. He may be completely unaware of this state because that is the only way he has come to understand being a humanitarian. There may be some room for improving this explanation, though.

Another way to look at the issue may be in terms of polarity, or 2 valued logic. In other words, you're not alone when you say:

Yes I agree that it is very easy to have the wrong idea about spirituality. Personally for me, spirituality is a vague idea, just like the idea of the soul. I know they exist but I can't describe what form or shape they take as I dont have enough knowledge or information about them and I dont really have the means of describing them, I dont know if words do them justice.

There seems to be a certain confusion when people consider what appears to be separate 'things' like soul, spirituality, rationality, materialism, etc. For one thing, they see the subjects as opposed to each other. The way I see it, the subjects are not mutually exclusive; the problem is that there are emotional blocks that keep drawing attention into negative feedback loops whenever the subjects come under consideration.

Self-inspection can lead to the observation that Spirituality is being treated as anti-rationality, or anti-materialism. Rationality is being treated as anti-spiritualism, etc. Look at the behaviors and trace them back through the feelings and thoughts and you may see that that the specific, defining essence that reveals which is which is where the focus of attention is. Are you throwing away your stuff to focus more on spirituality? Then you are being anti-materialistic, not spiritual. Are you rejecting all forms of religion and spiritual teachings? Then you are not being materialistic or even rational...you're being anti-spiritual. There is a big difference and it may be the reason why we can't get all the levels of awareness unified and operating as a singular "I".

If you find any of this hard to believe, just go back and look at the Statement of Principles of PaleoChristianity, as defined. Rational thought of Godel forms the core principles (primitive concepts), which are expanded on. The whole thing seems to be a unified expression of the system. Can you find a conflict between the rationality of Godel and the expression of the need for physical detox (for example)? I haven't. At this point, it seems everything is in harmony.

Concerning the issue of sex, I have to have a level of intimacy, trust and openness between my wife and I. Where there are negative thoughts and such, there are emotional blocks present that divert attention and keep the creative energies from being able to flow freely within my self and between my wife and I. That's just the way it works between me and her and the only way that it doesn't leave me with some kind of feeling of regret or even a minor self-loathing afterward.

The STO and STS concept is so fundamental, I really don't see how a person could justify attempting to fully understand them until they can learn to distinguish the hidden opposites that are already lurking in the field of vision that's closer to our eyes. :)