Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy (HBOT): General information and discussion of Home Units

[Thor]

Someone else mentioned Longfian being the same type as the Zoy-Tech concentrator - they have a 20psi 10l/min concentrator here JAY-10 (20PSI)_High Pressure Oxygen Concentrator_High Pressure Oxygen Concentrator_PRODUCTS_Longfian Scitech Co.,Ltd.
Not sure the price, but it's listed here as $610 (excluding shipping) [Hot Item] 20psi 10L Oxygen Concentrator

There is a 15 and 20 l/min version here fwiw JAY-15-4.0 JAY-20-4.0_Hospital Oxygen Supply_Medical Oxygen Concentrator_PRODUCTS_Longfian Scitech Co.,Ltd.

Yes, I saw that as well. I'm personally a bit hesitant to go with another company but that may be foolish. If something is not working and all the parts are from the same company their customer support is responsible for helping me out. If I have different parts from different companies, they might say, that the problem lies with the other company and try to avoid responsibility. If everything works without a problem it's more expensive. If problems arise it's sort of like an insurance - at least that's how I look at it.

Also, the masks I've been looking at have a maximum flow rate of 10-15 l/m. So I guess that 20 l/m at 1 ATA would probably be 15 l/m under pressure. But I'm not sure if it would negatively impact the mask if the mask is attached during the pressurisation process.

 

[Thor]

Just checked the page : 118Kg ! It's not light, but i assume it's the price (or better say weight) to pay to benefit of high quality devices. With such devices this enters the professional sector - I wonder what is its cost ?

So far, I understood that with 10L/m + a non-rebreather mask you have then a very good combination, do am i right ?
If yes, what would be the benefit to have a 15 or 20L/m device ? To add a bit more % of oxygen breated ? Or to have to possibility to avoid the use of a non-rebreather mask ? (or both, or other reasons ?)

It was also discussed early in the thread the danger about too high % of oxygen that could burn the lungs, and something in regard that it's only a danger for 2.0 ATA or more ATM pressure ... but i admit i did not much understood what is the point here. If someone well understood this specific sub-topic please do not hesitate to explain it here :)

You're right in the sense that if you get 10 l/m with a non-rebreather mask, you should be able to get very high oxygen concentration depending on your breathing and the fit of the mask. The problem is that as the pressure increases, the oxygen gets compressed and what was 10 l/m at 1 ATA is all of as sudden around 6.4 l/m. At this flow rate you shouldn't use a closed non-rebreather mask (both valves with flaps) as they require 10-15 l/m flow rate.

As far as I can see, with an 1.5 ATA chamber 15 l/m would be fine. If you have a 2.0 ATA chamber I would go for 20 l/m. But I'm no expert, so it's just me putting together different information that I come by and with the help from other forum members.

Hope this clarifies things a little bit.

 

[Thor]

I'm up to 9 hour sessions so far. I've added red/infrared therapy before hand to help with antioxidant production in the mitochondria (as well as amplify the overall process of healing).
I've been much more hungry, and without adding calories all the positive results grind to a halt. I've also noticed that I can't smoke as much at the moment. My head feels clearer, but it's still early days.

Wanted to share something I just ran across. In the video he discusses the usual types of brain injuries (including PTSD) and how HBOT heals them - this is not new. What is interesting was the connection between fibromyalgia and a specific pattern of brain injury. What is new is that you can see the same type of brain injury from childhood abuse (all kinds) and stress.
He mentioned that with patients who have fibromyalgia there pain symptoms can worsen during the first 20 sessions. And with those who have suffered abuse (especially if they don't remember it) they can experience spontaneous memory recall of the traumatizing events.

So it would seem that HBOT can heal emotional trauma perhaps.

I've certainly had minor memories I didn't know I had (not trauma related) surfacing during and after sessions.
I've also wondered about what the C's said about HBOT offering some protection from 4D STS - I noticed that I feel (subtly, and very subjectively) better put together. So does HBOT also prevent or even remove attachments?

Thanks for this extremely interesting video. The implications are mind-boggling. What Dr. Efrati is saying, if I understand him correctly, is that emotional reactions have a biological component, where neurological activity is either increased or decreased. If these emotional reactions are repeated, this can lead to a chronic reduction (or increase?) in blood flow which he likens to a wound. To me it would make sense to also extend this to speculate that if there's over-activity in some areas this could be seen as inflammation. Doing HBOT could help bring both extremes more into balance. This in turn would mean that it would be very beneficial to do frequent NeurOptimal sessions as well. As the areas of the brain come back online, the brain will respond differently to the feedback during a NO-session so the modalities could really supplement each other. I know that Dr. Scott Scherr combines neurofeedback with HBOT but I don't know if it's traditional (linear) neurofeedback or if it's NeurOptimal. This topic keeps getting more and more interesting.

 

[RedFox]

Thanks for this extremely interesting video. The implications are mind-boggling. What Dr. Efrati is saying, if I understand him correctly, is that emotional reactions have a biological component, where neurological activity is either increased or decreased. If these emotional reactions are repeated, this can lead to a chronic reduction (or increase?) in blood flow which he likens to a wound. To me it would make sense to also extend this to speculate that if there's over-activity in some areas this could be seen as inflammation. Doing HBOT could help bring both extremes more into balance. This in turn would mean that it would be very beneficial to do frequent NeurOptimal sessions as well. As the areas of the brain come back online, the brain will respond differently to the feedback during a NO-session so the modalities could really supplement each other. I know that Dr. Scott Scherr combines neurofeedback with HBOT but I don't know if it's traditional (linear) neurofeedback or if it's NeurOptimal. This topic keeps getting more and more interesting.

I would think that doing NeurOptimal (or therapy etc) after enough HBOT sessions to heal the brain would be better.
Better to have the brain healed and working before retraining it. But that's just my opinion.
Having said that, continuing HBOT whilst doing NeurOptimal (or therapy etc) would probably have faster results due to extra stem cells.

 

[LQB]

You're right in the sense that if you get 10 l/m with a non-rebreather mask, you should be able to get very high oxygen concentration depending on your breathing and the fit of the mask. The problem is that as the pressure increases, the oxygen gets compressed and what was 10 l/m at 1 ATA is all of as sudden around 6.4 l/m. At this flow rate you shouldn't use a closed non-rebreather mask (both valves with flaps) as they require 10-15 l/m flow rate.

Actually my O2 concentrator is 10L/min and works fine with the non-rebreather - plenty of O2 for me. Often, I'll take a very deep breath and empty the bag into my lungs, hold the breath until the bag partially refills, then exhale while placing light pressure on the bag (to prevent any exhaled air from entering the bag), then release the bag and let it fill with O2. I'll take a few normal breaths (while reading), and then repeat the above. This increases the O2 intake.

If the O2 was much less that 6.4L/min at pressure, the bag will fill too slowly to do the above properly. But I think the O2 @ 10L/min ambient is good up to 1.5 ATA.

 

[Pierre]

With the extra oxygen supply, and the excess oxygen potentially venting into the room (not outside the building) precautions should be taken. Both in ventilation and making sure no flames/ignition sources are within the same room.
Second is CO2 buildup (and possible suffocation) within the chamber

Our oxygen concentrator has a flow of 10 l/mn @ 95% O2 while our compressor has a flow of 70 l/mn @ 21% O2. It means that the concentration in O2 going out of the chamber is 42% maximum, not counting the O2 consumption of the user.

Our room is about 150 m3 @ 21% O2 and the vent flow is about 4 m3/hour @ 42% O2. It means that for one hour session the oxygen concentration increases by 0.5% in the room (without ventilation of the room). Furthermore oxygen not flammable but it accelerates existing fires.

About the 2nd point, the volume of our chamber is about 240 liters, it means that the air is renewed every 4 minutes plus the user is wearing an oxygen mask.

These is a lot of approximations in the above and maybe mistakes, but I think, in our configuration, both O2 explosion and CO2 suffocation are unlikely.

 

[aimarok]

Yes, I saw that as well. I'm personally a bit hesitant to go with another company but that may be foolish. If something is not working and all the parts are from the same company their customer support is responsible for helping me out. If I have different parts from different companies, they might say, that the problem lies with the other company and try to avoid responsibility. If everything works without a problem it's more expensive. If problems arise it's sort of like an insurance - at least that's how I look at it.

I got a reply from Zoy-Tech confirming that they get their concentrators from Longfian with a small detail: their models are adapted for high pressure. So Longfian JAY-10 (20 PSI) should be close to if not exact copy of Zoy-Tech 10 lpm concentrator. The 5 lpm high pressure model seems to be produced exclusively for Zoy-Tech.

 

[RedFox]

These is a lot of approximations in the above and maybe mistakes, but I think, in our configuration, both O2 explosion and CO2 suffocation are unlikely.

Thanks for the clarification Pierre.
For the record I also concluded (not from the maths which is beyond me at the moment) but from observation that the above was also likely true. Doesn't stop me looking for edge cases though and hedging against them.

 

[Thor]

I got a reply from Zoy-Tech confirming that they get their concentrators from Longfian with a small detail: their models are adapted for high pressure. So Longfian JAY-10 (20 PSI) should be close to if not exact copy of Zoy-Tech 10 lpm concentrator. The 5 lpm high pressure model seems to be produced exclusively for Zoy-Tech.

I just asked Zoy-Tech what the difference is between the Longfian Jay 15-4.0 and the ZoyTech 15 L/m oxygen concentrator. They replied that at Zoy-Tech needs to match the outgoing pressure of the oxygen concentrator to the pressure inside the chamber. I don't know what that entails or if that's something that one could aske Longfian to do, or if it's something that needs to be precisely calibrated.

I ended up changing my order with ZoyTech from a 10 L/m a 15 L/m unit. It's expensive and takes up too much space in my bedroom, where I have the unit but at the end of the day, I would rather have a little too much oxygen than too little as one of the main benefits from HBOT is a result of the hypoxic/hyperoxic paradox, where the difference in oxygen concentration is crucial.

 

[Thor]

Actually my O2 concentrator is 10L/min and works fine with the non-rebreather - plenty of O2 for me. Often, I'll take a very deep breath and empty the bag into my lungs, hold the breath until the bag partially refills, then exhale while placing light pressure on the bag (to prevent any exhaled air from entering the bag), then release the bag and let it fill with O2. I'll take a few normal breaths (while reading), and then repeat the above. This increases the O2 intake.

If the O2 was much less that 6.4L/min at pressure, the bag will fill too slowly to do the above properly. But I think the O2 @ 10L/min ambient is good up to 1.5 ATA.

Do you have the fully closed or half closed non-rebreather mask? The fully closed has silicone flaps on both inlet holes on the side of the mask whereas the half closed version only has the silicone flap on one side, and the other side is not covered.

If you have a fully closed mask, and the bag deflates/inflates with your breathing without deflating completely, then you should be fine with no need for the additional oxygen flow.

 

[Laura]

On a note of caution, I did watch a video on the possible dangers of soft chambers at home. This seems like a good time to mention it.
With the extra oxygen supply, and the excess oxygen potentially venting into the room (not outside the building) precautions should be taken. Both in ventilation and making sure no flames/ignition sources are within the same room.
Second is CO2 buildup (and possible suffocation) within the chamber. With my Zoy-Tech chamber it has a CO2 return line - which upon inspection inside my pump until is simply a blocked off pipe not connected to anything. My understanding is it should be connected to a CO2 scrubber that feeds back into the pressurized line.

It may also be worth limiting time in the chamber to a maximum of 60-70 minutes, due to CO2 build up.
Signs of CO2 buildup within a chamber will be increased temperature/humidity and water vapor forming inside. I may get a CO2 meter to find out what it's doing preciously. As an offset I make sure the room I use the chamber in is well ventilated so the main pump is bringing in extra oxygen (as well as making sure excess expelled oxygen doesn't build up within the room itself).

As long as you have the oxygen line working (and are breathing from it) there should be no issue. The danger comes from systems that have no oxygen lines, or if more than one person enters the chamber at once - even a baby/toddler produces as much CO2 as an adult.

Some things that should go without saying - children etc should not be left unsupervised in a chamber (the video cites one case of an unsupervised child suffocating). The connectors have a small chance of disconnecting so the person in the chamber should be aware at all times of the flow of at least oxygen to them.

This is some serious overthinking and misunderstanding the mechanics of the thing.

The chamber is constantly blowing in fresh air from the room (which should be well ventilated), and at the same time, the chamber is venting through a pressure valve.

At the same time, oxygen from the O2 machine is constantly flowing in through the tubing to the mask.

So how the heck can anybody suggest that there could be CO2 buildup? If anything, there would be a slight bit of oxygen concentration in the chamber and constant outflow of the air. It probably exchanges pretty fast under pressure.

As to the room, hell's bells! You are sounding like the three sillies! I sit beside the chamber while Ark is in there, about 6 feet away from the oxygen machine, smoking and reading until he is done with his session. As Pierre says, oxygen isn't as dangerous as it has been made out to be.

This CO2 return line could be excluded from design altogether because it feeds the same air which goes out of the chamber through pressure relief valves. Since the system has open gas circuit the risk of CO2 build-up is the same as in your room during normal breathing. To make sure oxygen concentrator gets enough fresh air just keep adequate ventilation in the room.

Exactly.

The Three Sillies - English fairy tale

www.worldoftales.com

 

[LQB]

Do you have the fully closed or half closed non-rebreather mask? The fully closed has silicone flaps on both inlet holes on the side of the mask whereas the half closed version only has the silicone flap on one side, and the other side is not covered.

If you have a fully closed mask, and the bag deflates/inflates with your breathing without deflating completely, then you should be fine with no need for the additional oxygen flow.

Mine is half-closed but the open half holes (on the right side) can't compete with the flow from the bag on in-breath. The bag inflates/deflates with breath - this is the reason for keeping slight pressure on the bag during a long exhale. By the time there is a need to inhale again, the bag is full of O2.

 

[Z...]

Did any of the seasoned users here (30 sessions or more) experience any trouble with eyesight?
I noticed few people mentioned teary eyes - this is mentioned as symptom of oxygen toxicity/ perhaps in sensitive ppl.

 

[Z...]

This is some serious overthinking and misunderstanding the mechanics of the thing.

The chamber is constantly blowing in fresh air from the room (which should be well ventilated), and at the same time, the chamber is venting through a pressure valve.

At the same time, oxygen from the O2 machine is constantly flowing in through the tubing to the mask.

So how the heck can anybody suggest that there could be CO2 buildup? If anything, there would be a slight bit of oxygen concentration in the chamber and constant outflow of the air. It probably exchanges pretty fast under pressure.

As to the room, hell's bells! You are sounding like the three sillies! I sit beside the chamber while Ark is in there, about 6 feet away from the oxygen machine, smoking and reading until he is done with his session. As Pierre says, oxygen isn't as dangerous as it has been made out to be.



Exactly.

The Three Sillies - English fairy tale

www.worldoftales.com

In theory nothing that could create static electricity should be used but in the hyperbaric spa I visited they let people in with laptops or mobiles.

 

[seek10]

They said that since I've bought a chamber with them, they can give me a reduced price of USD 1,850 plus shipping. I don't know what the normal price is. But for the 10 l/m they offered me a 20% discount on the normal price.

The thing is it's huge - 80.5 x 44.5 x 67.5 cm and it weighs 90 kilos - so the shipping is going to be expensive as well.

Is this price for all the components mentioned in their website? only for specific components?