Internal Racism

Muxel

Dagobah Resident
Iron said:
Some posters may do well in remembering that sarcasm and agressive satire add nothing to the discussion.
On the contrary, they only serve to show the lack of self control of the poster.
If you really mean me, I'd feel better if you had just addressed me directly.
 

Buddy

The Living Force
Iron said:
Also I want to second what Truth Seeker said. Why do you feel this particular topic is not worthy of discussion Buddy?

I wouldn't say the topic is not worthy of discussion. To me, that would seem to imply a categorical dismissal of the topic as a topic. I was asking in reference to luke, what his aim was for the topic and how well he understood the cognitive material as a foundation. This is nothing more than a kind of protocol negotiation phase that some people will go through in order to see how well their knowledge base aligns before continuing on with a topic.

luke picked up on how interested I am in his discussion and our exchange established a commonality of knowledge, I think. That is all there was to that.
 

Iron

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
H-KQGE said:
Buddy said:
H-KQGE has stated how tired he is and I know from experience how vulnerable I am to all my programming while in this state, so speaking for myself, I wouldn't engage him unless he is willing to state his willingness to consider the feedback for purposes of self-work in a fourth-way context. But maybe this is just me since I want to practice more external consideration until I get an idea if a certain member is still considered to be a newbie. I could use a bit of clarification, I guess.

Hello Buddy. I wasn't very tired, just tired. My arm was hurting a bit & my sitting positions always give me problems. Dont worry people i'm not gonna bite, the moderator (Mr Premise) has yellow carded me (warning) &
i feel really bad for offending all of you guys. For 2 years i have read these pages in limited form as i never had my own computer, & have thought of all of you even though i don't really know or have met you, as my other family. I have been a loner from day 1 & i need to connect with others of similar being. So i hope you'll forgive that show of force earlier.
Thank you Mr Premise for the non-confrontational way you stepped in because i've always had to keep quiet when being verbally abused & only recently have i started to speak up for myself since there was never anyone there. Buddy are you calling for a "mirror"? Doesn't that involve a lengthy piece about who you are etc? Of course feedback is welcome! truth seeker, i would've liked to have participated in discussions on those topics but then this happened. Thanks to Iron & Muxel too. Farewell.

You haven't offended anyone here, at least not in a permanent way :)
Its just that this forum has specific guidelines and a very clear and defined purpose. In order for this forum to remain a research forum, respectful comunication has to be a constant.
Many here like you were loners at some point and others are not. But every single one does contribute in their own unique way.
It takes a lot of courage to step in a forum and expouse your views like you did, and takes courage also to take the feedback in a gracious manner and expand your worldview based on what you got.
Megan merely pointed that your posts seemed unclear, which I agreed. It was not an attack to you, Megan just asked for clarification. Its an important distinction.
I hope that you find the following useful.
 

Buddy

The Living Force
H-KQGE said:
Buddy are you calling for a "mirror"?

I don't think so. I just wanted to make sure I didn't mess up this discussion like I've done with my previous input in other threads. :)
 

truth seeker

The Living Force
H-KQGE said:
Thank you Mr Premise for the non-confrontational way you stepped in because i've always had to keep quiet when being verbally abused & only recently have i started to speak up for myself since there was never anyone there. Buddy are you calling for a "mirror"? Doesn't that involve a lengthy piece about who you are etc? Of course feedback is welcome! truth seeker, i would've liked to have participated in discussions on those topics but then this happened. Thanks to Iron & Muxel too. Farewell.
Is everything okay, H-K? You know, if there's anything you want to talk about you're always welcome to open your own thread. Perhaps we can help? :)
 

lilies

The Living Force
Non-understanding as central issue, excellent learning opportunity, exercise in external considering

Thank you for creating this topic!

This very real problem is simply not being thought over individually, in general, during daily life, to come to an understanding, then discuss live as a group, resulting in a group understanding.

Observing people's hatred in general toward minorities when there is talk about them - I think people don't really bother to think about this topic, because people can get by at work and in their career. So [internal]racism comes up only occasionally when there is direct confrontation. Exception being a target of [internal]racism at work / living / socializing place, where the majority of workers / inhabitants / people socializing are of a different race. Example: mixed race family experiencing this problem.

Internal Racism I think is a psychological issue, a wrong idea for a coping mechanism for a person, whose mind wishes to heal and deal with hatred / discrimination constantly coming from members of the other race. The person tries to send signals on all social-programming channels to members of the other race that:

- I am like you, please accept me and cease with your open or covert racism once and for all.

I think internal racism is driven by racist reaction signals transmitted by most in today's societies should be dealt with and neutralized - made nil - in FOTCM groups. This will become an issue as more groups are created, more people of different races come together and will have to learn to live as kin, in sisterhood and brotherhood. We know all hatred is Matrix-induced as a feeding mechanism, racism being only one tool. In a FOTCM community I think I would try to learn show acceptance toward races - because this is a universal problem affecting all -, come to an understanding of the problem of the racism / internal racism and learning to neutralize it in my mind and clearly communicating:
- I accept you, there is only one "race": the human race. Let's make an end for this once and for all.

One may think:
- Why is this brought up as an issue? I just accept everybody, regardless of race and that's it!

Well, clearly if ones mind is not really working a racist "full time", still there are harmful viral-thoughts injected by society, the media, movies, minorities living in the area, The Matrix, so there is work to be done, whether one wants to accept or not, i think.

I had a colleague with persian/arab complexion who told me police were stopping him frequently, asking for his papers and asking questions and this bothered him. This was the first time I tried to imagine how infuriated would I feel if police were stopping me, because of my skin color.

A grandmother of the minority race is stopping by sometimes at our window, about a four year old girl holding her hand. The girl is asking questions, her voice is of an angel, really musical, beautiful voice. I always happily listen to resonant, beautiful singing tones and the girl has a true. Grandmother answers to her in a rough, aggressive tone, her vocal cords ruined by alcohol, sounding like a faulty loudspeaker on overdrive making her voice almost inhuman, grating, piercing, squall.
I always shudder and think that angelic girl will learn to speak this way, because most adults in the minority where I live speak in that inhuman tone.

I have no problem admitting some of the girls from the minority group being more beautiful - look at in awe - than girls from my majority (race) group. Seems every human model type - mentioned by the C's - has a noble genetic line looking like idealized sculptures.
 

Lisa Guliani

The Living Force
Maybe things might also change for the better if we stopped referring to people as 'minorities' at all, if we simply looked at other people as human beings and reject the whole 'majority/minority' group classification labeling designation.
I think if/when we do that, when we use that label, it's like we're automatically putting people in little boxes right out of the gate.
I've never liked using those words because, to me, they seem condescending.
My two cents' worth.
 

mb

The Living Force
truth seeker said:
H-KQGE said:
Thank you Mr Premise for the non-confrontational way you stepped in because i've always had to keep quiet when being verbally abused & only recently have i started to speak up for myself since there was never anyone there. Buddy are you calling for a "mirror"? Doesn't that involve a lengthy piece about who you are etc? Of course feedback is welcome! truth seeker, i would've liked to have participated in discussions on those topics but then this happened. Thanks to Iron & Muxel too. Farewell.
Is everything okay, H-K? You know, if there's anything you want to talk about you're always welcome to open your own thread. Perhaps we can help? :)

I have wondered about him too. He made several posts that struck me as manipulative, and at one point Luke sounded almost bullied, though I couldn't say that with any certainty. If somebody addressed me using an opening similar to "The problem you are having luke wilson..." I think I would be inclined to flag it, mentally, and proceed cautiously, but not apologetically.

So I jumped up and said "Boo" and *poof*, the poster went away and hasn't returned. I may have made a mistake, but the only way I know to find out is to continue the dialogue, which doesn't seem possible at the moment.

When I briefly reviewed some of H-KQGE's earlier posts a few days ago, I didn't notice anything unusual, so maybe this is a hot-button topic for him (or I am completely missing the point, somewhere). I really don't know.
 

Iron

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
Lisa Guliani said:
Maybe things might also change for the better if we stopped referring to people as 'minorities' at all, if we simply looked at other people as human beings and reject the whole 'majority/minority' group classification labeling designation.
I think if/when we do that, when we use that label, it's like we're automatically putting people in little boxes right out of the gate.
I've never liked using those words because, to me, they seem condescending.
My two cents' worth.

I agree with you Lisa, but unfortunately even if we stop referring to people as minorities, the ponerized society will keep on doing so.
Discussions like this are useful to return this topic to awareness, and to remind us of some of the biases with most people operate. At least its how I see it.
 

luke wilson

The Living Force
Megan said:
truth seeker said:
H-KQGE said:
Thank you Mr Premise for the non-confrontational way you stepped in because i've always had to keep quiet when being verbally abused & only recently have i started to speak up for myself since there was never anyone there. Buddy are you calling for a "mirror"? Doesn't that involve a lengthy piece about who you are etc? Of course feedback is welcome! truth seeker, i would've liked to have participated in discussions on those topics but then this happened. Thanks to Iron & Muxel too. Farewell.
Is everything okay, H-K? You know, if there's anything you want to talk about you're always welcome to open your own thread. Perhaps we can help? :)

I have wondered about him too. He made several posts that struck me as manipulative, and at one point Luke sounded almost bullied, though I couldn't say that with any certainty. If somebody addressed me using an opening similar to "The problem you are having luke wilson..." I think I would be inclined to flag it, mentally, and proceed cautiously, but not apologetically.

So I jumped up and said "Boo" and *poof*, the poster went away and hasn't returned. I may have made a mistake, but the only way I know to find out is to continue the dialogue, which doesn't seem possible at the moment.

When I briefly reviewed some of H-KQGE's earlier posts a few days ago, I didn't notice anything unusual, so maybe this is a hot-button topic for him (or I am completely missing the point, somewhere). I really don't know.

Interesting observation about me sounding bullied. I didn't feel bullied but maybe my words conveyed something different (I felt scared and like I was in an aggressive arena whilst engaging with H at that point in time not to mention a huge feeling of self-doubt about what I just said to cause him to react the way he did). See, I have this problem where sometimes someone can say something and you interpret it how the person didn't expect you to, then when you point this out or say something based on how you took their words, they lay the blame on you. To me it can just mean the reading instrument needs more work. I usually take words to be more than words especially here in the forum, they carry force and flavor behind them and sometimes the force and flavor are different from what the words are trying to convey. When you are receiving mixed signals, it just confuses you and you don't know what is what.

@ Lilies, very interesting post.

I also liked the article I saw on SOTT this morning because I think it adds another dimension as to why the problem of 'racism' in general still exists despite the illusion that it's essentially something 'locked' in the past.

http://www.sott.net/article/264917-Smart-enough-to-know-better-Intelligence-is-not-a-remedy-for-racism
 

luke wilson

The Living Force
Why you talk so white! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nT-u_OXSH0

Well the above is a poem about the subject. I think it's quite good.
 

mada85

The Living Force
luke wilson said:
Interesting observation about me sounding bullied. I didn't feel bullied but maybe my words conveyed something different (I felt scared and like I was in an aggressive arena whilst engaging with H at that point in time not to mention a huge feeling of self-doubt about what I just said to cause him to react the way he did)

When I read this post I had a similar sense of it, as though you had cowed down and tried to placate H-K in order to avert any more 'blows'. A not uncommon reaction to aggression real or perceived.

Megan said:
at one point Luke sounded almost bullied, though I couldn't say that with any certainty. If somebody addressed me using an opening similar to "The problem you are having luke wilson..." I think I would be inclined to flag it, mentally, and proceed cautiously, but not apologetically.

luke wilson said:
When you are receiving mixed signals, it just confuses you and you don't know what is what.

Something that may be worth considering is that when you are feeling that kind of reactive confusion after reading something like that post of H-K's - or any other strong emotional reaction, for that matter - it may be worth staying with the feeling. Don't use that energy to post with, or chatter it away with friends, but hold it inside, in your body, trying to keep it below the level of the neck. When the energy state is 'hot' so to speak - fresh - that's when you can use it and learn from it. Don't repress and don't express, if that makes sense - hold it as though you are holding something valuable, until your mind is settled and you're not emotionally driven to post. It is easier said than done though.

Also worth remembering is that there's no obligation to reply instantly.

A benefit of the approach outlined above is giving yourself enough time to let things really sink in and be digested. Knowledge and impressions are a kind of food, after all, and as such need to be digested.
 

luke wilson

The Living Force
Endymion said:
...that kind of reactive confusion...

I can use the 4 R's technique (Relabel, Reattribute, Refocus, Revalue) to divert myself from reacting as long as I recognize the feeling but my reason for reacting usually is as follows:-

- Feeling has arisen due to a good reason.
- It indicates an unresolved issue
- We have to move to resolve, by exploring the issue (i.e. communicating with the other person) to either see if the problem lies with them or with me.
- Once issue resolved, feeling is dissipated and all is back to normal.

If I am to not act in that moment I feel like, (I know as the below is again a drive to act when I am doubting whether to say something or not)

- You cannot let an unresolved issue lie especially when it is highlighted and when it burns red hot. (i.e. strike while the iron is hot as compared to he who hesitates is lost etc)

Now after the ordeal, I feel like H and I have a better understanding of each other as compared to me not responding. (But I suppose what you are saying is, wait for the feeling to die down i.e. metabolize it, THEN, respond).

Ok, I will do that I guess, the only thing to lose is some time.

But can I ask a question,

What is to be gained in this situation by metabolizing the 'reactive confusion'?
 

Muxel

Dagobah Resident
luke wilson said:
Why you talk so white! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nT-u_OXSH0

Well the above is a poem about the subject. I think it's quite good.

Oh, no doubt. And I enjoyed Maya's perspective.

But does she know for instance that back in the old days, blacks who got an education and were successful, were said by other blacks to be "acting white"? I mean, Maya has landed herself in an age-old dialogue of white/black America. It's not black-on-black racism if the Harlem native only sees Maya through his/her lens. And Maya's accent is obviously - well - she should have been anticipating situations like this, is what I'm saying. You don't travel to the planet Neptune and expect the Neptunians to "get" you and "get" your worldview - it is upon you to learn about them. (Unless you're an interplanetary refugee and the Neptunian High Lord Marshal has graciously granted you entry...)

Maya should have replied with, "I'm from South Africa."
 

luke wilson

The Living Force
Muxel said:
It's not [----] if the Harlem native only sees Maya through his/her lens.

Think about the above statement.

Muxel said:
Maya should have replied with, "I'm from South Africa."

It's a bit like the person in the link below replying to the lady at the retreat asking him how he got there by saying well, I went to school, got a degree, got a masters, got a phd, wrote some papers, joined academia proper etc etc...

But I guess Maya went with the, "I got here by plane approach".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STXemdQQNsg

Interesting view nonetheless, either way is ok I guess, only the "I'm from south africa" approach would have resulted in no poem :(
 
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