Introduction

[domwatts23]

Luke wilson I completely agree with you and truly do see 'the point' now. I see now that it is not about anart AT ALL. Anart basically provided me with a mirror. And eventually, with your help too, I looked inside!

 

[domwatts23]

Also, when I said 'anything of value i might have said was definitely taken on board by you', what I meant really was that; your replies to me were structured and done in a certain way specifically so I might see that I was being an 'idiot'. This is why, as I perceived it, you were 'not responding to what I said and simply deflecting'.

Apologies again...and thanks again.

 

[anart]

I also have a slight 'inkling' that anything of value which I might have said in my 'rant' about how you were dealing with me was, most likely, definitely taken on board by you; but if you had said this I would not have learnt the lesson. Is this the case?? [...]Also, when I said 'anything of value i might have said was definitely taken on board by you', what I meant really was that; your replies to me were structured and done in a certain way specifically so I might see that I was being an 'idiot'. This is why, as I perceived it, you were 'not responding to what I said and simply deflecting'.

Your impression of my actions and your attacks on me were pure projection on your part - 100% - as your self-importance was striking out to protect itself - your lies to the self are fighting for their life. Nothing more.

If so...I have nothing to say but that this method of making people see their own shortcomings is...essentially....genius

The point here is to present you with an objective view of what you are writing. Whether or not your are able to consider it as true determines whether you benefit or not.

I would caution you, however, to please re-read the forum guidelines as your behavior in your earlier post crossed the line.

 

[Beau]

Anart, I accept your points.

Heh, funny that your post continues on from here. Something tells me the above will be amended with your tried and true "yes, but..." tactic.

What still seems funny to me is that, from my perspective given what I have said about your apparent attitude towards the 'newbies', almost all of your points seem to apply to you as well!

Really? That's funny to you? Pardon me if I fail to see the humor, all I see is someone who desperately wishes for the spotlight to be taken off him and put on someone else. Nothing humorous in that.

Oh, and to answer your "question", if you want to call it that, ummm, no, that is not the case. What you should be doing is questioning whether or not your perspective is at all objective. I can tell you it is not. I really fail to see how anart's "attitude" (interesting how pejorative that word became in your phrasing) is in any way comparable to how you have conducted yourself. Anart is attempting to give you objective feedback based on what you have written. That is what this forum is about. You, on the other hand, have done nothing of the sort. As anart has pointed out, you've been projecting and deflective. Their is nothing comparable in how you've conducted yourself and how anart has. Nothing. So please, stop trying to deflect by offering meta-commentary on the work of the mods. It doesn't do you any good.

And, as you yourself said, others can see this in you better than you can. Just as you can see it in me. However, I see that what you are saying is that as a defence mechanism I am trying to turn the situation around onto you. I am deflecting as a way of trying to avoid seeing myself. Thus, you are saying that it doesn't matter about your programs, we are 'here to talk about mine'. It doesn't matter about you deflecting, it matters about me deflecting.

Wow, you really couldn't help yourself there, with the backhanded slap at anart. Frankly, I'm rather astounded at your ability to stick the needle in her in such a subtle manner. Surely you didn't think it would go unnoticed. The subtle implication above is that anart is deflecting, that she is running a mechanical program with how she is handling your presence. Let me answer this way: You are so off, you're not even wrong. Please give up the subtle jabs.

I understand this now.

If anything, everything you've written so far indicates that you understand NOTHING of what has been said to you.

I should not have tried to say anything in return, is what you are saying, because saying anything in return MUST imply a lack of taking things on board and seeing myself honestly.

Again, you're so far off you're not even wrong. You are trying to take something and twist it to fit into your preconceived notions of discussions, debating, etc. Sorry, this is not a place for that.

Indeed, this is partly true.

NO. No it's not. We seem to be entering into a conversation you are having with yourself.

Deflection is a huge part of any argument which happens between people. Both parties think they are right, and constantly try to batter their point at the other, never taking the 'opposing' point on board. Thus, if you NEVER take the 'opposing' point on board, you will be the party who always hears the words 'you're right'. Therefore, it is essentially impossible for an administrator to learn anything new from a 'newbie', as they will simply deflect until the newbie gives in.

If that is how you feel/think, then you will probably be best finding a different forum. Again, the above is so off it's not even wrong.

P.S. I appreciate that in this post, again, there is deflection; the reason for this (contrary to what you will almost certainly believe, as I can see the error of my ways) is that I am curious to know whether you agree with anything I said regarding your interactions with others on the forum.

Whatever the reason, deflecting serves its purpose - to take the focus off of you and put it on someone else. My guess is your curiousity will not be satisfied. The idea that you can "see the error of your ways" just seems like an empty comment, seeing as though everything you have written above leads to the OPPOSITE conclusion.

So here come those inevitable words which will always come from an interaction where one party is constantly deflecting, as a rule, and the other does it in return but constantly comes to a brick wall of deflection...

You're right!

And the funny thing about it is.....that even though that seemed sarcastic, you are! So thank you for the lesson!!!

Yeah, I'm sure their was no sarcasm intended there...

 

[domwatts23]

Heimdallr. Thank you for your post. If you read my latest one or 2, you will see that I truly have seen the 'error of my ways' in this instance. The post you have dissected has made me embarrassed and ashamed, but that is a good thing; because it means I have learnt something from it. As I'm sure you know, it's not fun to see your mechanical-ness, but I truly am thankful to everybody who has contributed to this thread for making me 'see my own nothingness'.....again!!!!

 

[Denis]

domwatts23, I think that it would be of immense value for you to understand that all conflicts are self-perpetuated and hence your conflicts with Anart are simply projections of your mind . I'm not sure if you REALLY understand what others have said to you about self-importance and other things, and I'm not sure that you have realized that the people here are trying to help you with their comments, perspectives and understandings due to short time interval between the mods' replies and yours.

I would suggest that you refrain yourself from posting here on this forum for some time, and that you use that time to reflect and contemplate on what others have said to you so far. Meditate, focus on your breath, and do what you usually do in your spare time. Note: this is only a suggestion on my part, not a demand- I'm pointing out the difference, just in case... :)

Live long and prosper! ;)

 

[no-mans-land]

Heimdallr. Thank you for your post. If you read my latest one or 2, you will see that I truly have seen the 'error of my ways' in this instance. The post you have dissected has made me embarrassed and ashamed, but that is a good thing; because it means I have learnt something from it. As I'm sure you know, it's not fun to see your mechanical-ness, but I truly am thankful to everybody who has contributed to this thread for making me 'see my own nothingness'.....again!!!!

domwatts23, I followed your line of posting comments here with interest and I get the impression that you, somehow, try to blow smoke around. The reason why it comes across this way is the constant "thank you", "your right", followed by "but". This "yes, but", wrapped into a mask of making nice while running in circles and stick needles in others, as Heimdllr said, make me feel strange. Its like someone wears a colorfull mask but behind it, there is only smoke.

I don't know why it feels this way, bu that's the impression I get by your posts.

But from your above quote I think you will take my comment as just another proof that everyone here will show you your nothingness, but that's not true. If you perceive it that way, than it is your wish to perceive it so. The nothingness what must be seen, in my current understanding, is the realisation that someone else runs the show and that you, you as our essence, can do nothing against it, because your essence is on vaccation. So you think that what runs the show and writhe your posts has something to do with your real self. Nothing could be more wrong.

If you really did understand what was said to you, than you would not write your posts in such a short period. This kind of understanding comes not from conversations with other people, no matter how inspiring it might be. It comes like cold water right through your veins. It comes to you when you become silent and look deep into the source of your emotions of grandiosity and the wounds which you try to cover with it. There you will find lies over lies, covered with more lies, to hide your own darkness.

If you get a glimpse of it, you certainly would stop writing and feel the urge to run away. Your words would reflect it, but your words remain empty. There is really no indication that you understand what the "dark night of the soul" mean.

 

[domwatts23]

The reason for my quick replies is that, as I said, I have been extremely shocked by this eye-opening thread and wanted to get across that I can see how foolishly I have posted, and that I am embarrassed by 'my' actions as a result. Additionally, I felt the need to apologise for the things I have said, especially to anart. I did not mean to give off the impression that I was taking this lesson lightly, as I am aware of its importance for my development. I am aware that the process of reflection on these matters is not a quick one, and was not intending to continue posting anything. It is interesting for me to see that, despite the fact that I have indeed been through many realisations with regards to my mechanical nature (and most of these have been horrific, and not taken lightly), it comes across that I have never seen even a glimpse of my ego structure. This is very insightful for me. I am more grateful than it may come across that I have been shown these things about my ego structure on this forum, as lessons of such a stark nature as these are difficult/impossible to come by without outside help. In the 4th way group classes I attend and during self-observation lessons such as these do not come about so readily. I hope this will be taken as a token of my appreciation for all of the efforts made by people on this thread, and an extremely positive 'review' of the methods used in this forum to awaken people to their mechanical actions.

I take all of your kind comments on board and thank you all again for your advice.

 

[MoskoeOne]

...Theres no ego/or ego's in the thread, thats its best trick..

 

[Loud John]

Re: Introduction Domwatts23

Hey are you going to take Anart's advise and post those 10000 words on another site if so please let me know as I am still searching for truth and knowledge. It sounds like an intense and intriguing experience you had and self importance aside I would like to study it.

 

[SeekinTruth]

domwatts23,

Just want to say that when someone sincere and making sincere efforts in the Work is shown their blind spots -- the things that you cannot see in yourself, that others can, especially in a group like this -- it is truly a gift, IF taken the right way, even though it is painful and uncomfortable: for the false personality, mainly. Without such seeing yourself, there's no real possibility to make progress in the Work on yourself.

Your posts to anart were 100% projection and deflection. Only if you sincerely want to receive the kind of help given here, is it worth sticking around. Otherwise, I see no point for anyone to do so, if they can't understand what is being done here and appreciate and benefit from it. All this is done by agreement of all participating on this forum, VOLUNTARILY, for very unique and specific purposes.

Also as anart said, the responsibility of the Mods and Admins is also to keep the noise down and provide a proper environment for the Work being done here. This is a research forum, so sharing data and ideas and analyzing these needs to have noise kept to a minimum so we can recognize the signal, so to speak. All this makes the job of the Moderators and Administrators REALLY intensive and difficult. But they do a very good job.

IF you are sincere and decide that you will participate on the forum and reap the benefits available, your future interactions will show something very different that your defensive, passive-aggressive attacks in this thread. When you really grok what's going on here, you will NOT take being mirrored as an attack, as you characterized anart's replies to you. Your posts would more accurately be characterized as attacks on anart for showing you a mirror to see what you weren't seeing about yourself.

So, I guess we'll see. When you really do appreciate the benefits you get from objective mirroring, you'll probably look back and laugh at your reactions in this thread. Until the next time you become too identified and wrapped up in your self-importance. :) Eventually, you will not be so quick to jump into defensive/deflective attacks, justifications, "yes, buts" etc. And will actually feel and observe the heat and will probably not even post a reply so quickly, until you've reached a certain point in the process. Then you'll already be balancing with a relief and joyous appreciation of having another layer of falseness peeled back. So step by step you'll can be more and more free from mechanical programs.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Re: Introduction Domwatts23

Hey are you going to take Anart's advise and post those 10000 words on another site if so please let me know as I am still searching for truth and knowledge. It sounds like an intense and intriguing experience you had and self importance aside I would like to study it.

So you'd rather go to a blog by Domwatts23 (even after his attack of anart, and crossing forum guidelines) for your truth and knowledge instead of studying this forum more closely?

 

[anart]

Re: Introduction Domwatts23

Hey are you going to take Anart's advise and post those 10000 words on another site if so please let me know as I am still searching for truth and knowledge. It sounds like an intense and intriguing experience you had and self importance aside I would like to study it.

So you'd rather go to a blog by Domwatts23 (even after his attack of anart, and crossing forum guidelines) for your truth and knowledge instead of studying this forum more closely?

I think it's an interesting situation - watching who responds to the bait of domwatts23. Loud John responded, as did a few others - there is a certain flavor to domwatts23's posts, see - and it hooks in certain minds. It isn't a matter of whether or not the information offered may or may not be true or helpful - that's not the draw - it's the 'mystery of it', the enticing 'otherworldly' aspect - this is how the vast majority of newage channeler snake oil artists get their followers as well. Certain minds respond to that bait very emotionally and just want to read it because it's 'mysterious' - the signal to noise ratio isn't a factor in their decision. It all comes down to a lack of discernment - but even before one develops any level of discernment, it all comes down to hooks and bait and what a mind is attracted to. So, it's just interesting to observe.

 

[luke wilson]

Re: Introduction Domwatts23

Hey are you going to take Anart's advise and post those 10000 words on another site if so please let me know as I am still searching for truth and knowledge. It sounds like an intense and intriguing experience you had and self importance aside I would like to study it.

So you'd rather go to a blog by Domwatts23 (even after his attack of anart, and crossing forum guidelines) for your truth and knowledge instead of studying this forum more closely?

I think it's an interesting situation - watching who responds to the bait of domwatts23. Loud John responded, as did a few others - there is a certain flavor to domwatts23's posts, see - and it hooks in certain minds. It isn't a matter of whether or not the information offered may or may not be true or helpful - that's not the draw - it's the 'mystery of it', the enticing 'otherworldly' aspect - this is how the vast majority of newage channeler snake oil artists get their followers as well. Certain minds respond to that bait very emotionally and just want to read it because it's 'mysterious' - the signal to noise ratio isn't a factor in their decision. It all comes down to a lack of discernment - but even before one develops any level of discernment, it all comes down to hooks and bait and what a mind is attracted to. So, it's just interesting to observe.

I was definately hooked in. Not by the mystic of his experience but his subsequent reactions afterwards which is something I identfied with. Infact I was taken aback by the boldness of his attacks once he got going. It was quite something. I put it down to misplaced courage... Atleast those were the lies I was telling myself.

I always wondered, do you have a blog anart?

 

[domwatts23]

I do not have a blog. I am not a new age channeler snake oil salesman. I do not want to 'draw anyone in'. I merely intended to put some information up for discussion. In doing this, I was shown some interesting/abhorrent aspects of 'myself' which I must work on. I am grateful for that.