Is there something about us the Lizzies/grays are jealous of?

Lucy wrote: "If for no other reason they would want to destroy it because they see its importance to us, that we value it even if only unconsciously".
The one thing we would continue to fight to defend... Yes. The ONE THING we humans, persons, have as sacred. THE ONE THING where the final line is draw... And the ONE THING we can fight them with.
Our will. Our impulse. Our incorruptible decision. Our spontaneous enthusiasm to collaborate besides another. Our "inner draw" to REALIZE things as to transfigure dreams, pouring them into reality (from oniric realm to concrete stuff!). Our effort to awake! (this effort, this deeeeeeeepest desire which suddenly awakens on our conscience, comes, I think, naturally: it is the Life acting. Like to love. Like to grow and learn, so the realization of our state of slaves suddenly unveils it's self to each one of us. Some ignore it. Some make it a school).
This most be even offensive to them (our inner draw). A obstacle to their desires. I do not think they underestimate it's power. I think it is less than that, Lucy. I think they dismiss it as something stinky, without value because they, of course, have the real powerful stuff: Their "exquisite existence" and the dangerous situation they find their selfs to be as of now (they might no make it!). So they don't have eyes for this treasure. So cannot gauge it. They want to move it aside, as if it were a fly passing by, bothering stubbornly. They WISH we did not had it! "Ahhh.... wouldn't that not make our task more easy?" -they say to each others.
There are many ways to dye: To loose this "inner draw", this "luminance" (as i think the C's spelled and Laura did noticed it by expressing: "Funny spelling!") renders a efficient slave and a delicious bite.
Lucy I liked the place where you put the final line, being this luminance: It is this depth the psychopath has to touch for us to stop forgiving, isn't it?
This "enough" place, expressed on Laura's motto ("When a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight it concentrates his mind wonderfully"), is also the "trigger" place": When they touch it, we come-up with all our might and, without reflection, we just dye defending it since there is not a "beyond" beyond that.
"Does anyone have an opinion of my belief that it may be the ability to choose not to be "food for the gods" is what I've heard referred to as the ability we posses that they fear?": Appollynon, I most definitely agree with you. Yes it is!
 
Cricket said:
The one thing we would continue to fight to defend... ....Our will. Our impulse. Our incorruptible decision.
...our free will driven by compassion and empathy due to the connection with the prime source. That 'chaos, that anarchy (in their minds) - self-organizing according to divine impuls.

The opposite and main threat to CONTROL.

Oh: I just noticed the word 'CONTROL' looks to my dyslexic brain like 'COINTELPRO' in a green language sort of way. Hmmm.

Anyway, I start more and more to think that the psychopath species may be a reptilian creation. Something like the 3D earth version of the grays?
 
Justin said:
anart said:
That's an interesting take on it, Joes - when I heard the C's say that (read that the C's had said that), my mind went to a completely symbolic place. What I mean is that I thought they were using the word 'die' to mean something more than or different from physical death. I suppose that, ultimately, we shall see what they meant, but it's worth considering.
That's interesting because I was thinking accident, suicide, or just disappearance. Although I think suicide is highly unlikely unless it's one of those fake suicides, which would make it assassination in a way. Accident is probably the most likely of the all the non-symbolic types.

Disappearance would be the most interesting I think...
It just occurred to me that it was written somehere ih the Signs that GWB is the only member of the family who is not genetically[\i]pschopathic, and had to have is 'soul' crushed by his familly to become what he is. One side effect of this, I think, was called premature senile dementia (PSD). If, deep, DEEP, down, he does have a conscience, he may feel overwhelming guilt for what he's done (or perhaps let himself be the pasty for), under those circumstances, suicide is a potential.
However, given PSD, an accident cannot be ruled out. (Watch out for pretzels and bicycles :rolleyes: )

BTW, him being a patsy either way seems plausible. Look at 9/11 and the security alert of a plane over with White House. I believe Cheney was wisked away quickly, while they left GWB twist in the wind.
 
joesmoe said:
It just occurred to me that it was written somehere ih the Signs that GWB is the only member of the family who is not genetically[\i]pschopathic, and had to have is 'soul' crushed by his familly to become what he is.

I can't remember where I read this but apparently this was achieved the classic way; through satanic abuse as a child.
 
This thread is well on its way, and I'm still digesting it, so I'll refrain from jumping in. I'll tell you what though:

If such in-depth discussion was more the norm in our turbulent society, Lizzies, grays, 4D STS and all those "roses by any other name" would have to look for another food source!
 
Bear with me a moment as I jump back to what Laura mentioned about OPs, sympathy and animals:

Laura said:
Quite often, they are people who are fixated on "saving stray animals," or "hugging trees" etc.

[...]

Also, it seems that the individuals that I think are very likely OPs are VERY sympathetic to animals - sometimes moreso than to humans.

So, just some observations.
atreides said:
I don't think love of, relating to, animals is indicative of an OP.
I think the devil is in the details here. ScioAgapeOmnis had some further thoughts on this...

ScioAgapeOmnis said:
Maybe it's similarly that some people only love THEIR animals, or empathise only with those animals in their immediate vicinity, but not someone else's animals, or animals that are not right in front of them?

[...]

Perhaps an OP does indeed have empathy, but in a very limited and shallow sense? And perhaps a disproportionate preoccupation with a certain "group" over everyone else, or a certain species, can be indicative of inactive "higher centeres" - either because they're not there, or they're simply suppressed.

[...]

I'll find it later, bit pressed for time at the moment. Also I'm thinking about how this might connect to the idea that OP's are a bridge between 2nd and 3rd density, in terms of where they "stand". But I can't come up with a coherent thought on the matter, I just feel like there's a connection so I'll leave it as food for thought for now.
Just my 2 cents here: OPs appear to identify more with animals. Laura said, "VERY sympathetic to animals - sometimes moreso than to humans". This suggests to me that this is because they feel more of a kinship towards animals because they are indeed a bridge between 2nd and 3rd density. As ScioAgapeOmnis said, "a disproportionate preoccupation with a certain "group" over everyone else, or a certain species". Perhaps a disproportionate preoccupation with 2nd density because, not long ago, they WERE 2nd density?

Being sympathetic towards animals moreso than humans makes sense to an OP because they are closer to 2nd density than souled 3D people. There is still a familiar bond there, a bond to 2nd density that is yet to be completely severed. Perhaps this explains the closeness to animals disproportionate to that of humans?
 
Nathan said:
Laura said, "VERY sympathetic to animals - sometimes moreso than to humans". This suggests to me that this is because they feel more of a kinship towards animals because they are indeed a bridge between 2nd and 3rd density. As ScioAgapeOmnis said, "a disproportionate preoccupation with a certain "group" over everyone else, or a certain species".
I disagree with this view, in terms of its generalization. I have known OP's who felt close to animals, but I have also known OP's who consider animals "servants of man", and not worth any more than what they can provide in terms of food, clothing and protection. I have known people I consider individualized to also love animals exceptionally, and even more than people, and I have known those ensouled who simply do not pay attention to animals, and are more focused on human beings.

In my opinion, to consider such behavioural traits as the preference or love of animals as symptoms of an OP or individualized nature can lead down a path where one indeed, as anart said, needs to tread very carefully. I also say this because I myself love and appreciate animals, plants and all of nature. I also feel of kinship with nature and all that exist therein. I do not consider this imaginative projection of myself onto animals, plants and the greater natural environment, but an appreciation of the life pulse itself, which I can often distinctly feel.

Healthy humans are, for the most part, social beings and their social bonding tendencies are often not limited to their own species. These social tendencies are hard-wired into our genes OP and individual alike. Any human, furthermore, who has for some reason lost faith in humanity, or simply appreciates the more genetically defined attributes of animals (i.e., with animals you know where you stand), will channel their social bonding tendencies in that direction. It is well known, for example, that having a dog and/or cat can improve your chances of healing from psychological and/or physical trauma.

Whether one is predisposed to liking animals also depends on upbringing. Here in Greece, for the most part, animals are considered inferior beings made to serve man. The very word for death is different for animals then it is for humans. The closest translation I can come up with is that humans "pass-on" and animals "fall down and rot".

When I visited Morocco a few years back, the streets of Tangiers and Rabat were filled with mangy dogs, kicked by every passer by, chased down by groups of children and treated in general horribly. The same cities were filled with fat well-fed cats that people treated like royalty. The love of cats and hatred of dogs (even the word "dog" is considered a grave insult) is indeed part of Muslim culture. It may even have its roots in ancient Egypt where dogs were assiciated with corpse-eating jackals and cats with Pharoah's.

"Tree huggers" and OP "environmentalists" are something else altogether, in my view. OP's do not lack intelligence, and many realize that a world without trees and animals is a dead world. If many animals could reason and debate, they too IMO would be environmentalists because they have a deep sense of nature as their home. In this sense the OP's might have an admirable natural instinct to preserve their environment that those with tendencies to individuation may not fully appreciate.

The OP soul-pool effect may put them in a deeper natural environmental relationship than an individual who, until they truly develop and mature that soul into healthy intensity and presence, may tend at least toward partial environmental alienation. The OP knows instinctively what is in their best interests as a living biological being, and their natural emotions are an outflow of that sense. It is not selfishness per se when self-interest is coherent with ecosystemic balance.

The individualized soul, on the other hand, at some point in their development can place too much emphasis in the abstract and lose touch with the concrete. They may see nature in abstract terms, and while focusing on "higher things" forget that empathy makes no such distinctions. The soul has been associated with the inner divine in many traditions. In its purity, whether grounding in one individual or spread through many, the soul has a holographic nature in that one soul is all souls regardless of form-expression. This is the reason for empathy, which is coherent where the soul is individually concentrated and diffuse and conditional where it is more spread out.

I agree that individualized beings have the potential to develop abstract conscience, because they have genetic potiential that acts as a parabolic lens to focus a coherent soul in the body/mind. When the soul dynamic tends to focus into such coherence the human involved tends to be moved to Know themselves. Knowledge protects because it is one and the same with soul emergence, activation and empowerment. The soul itself is referenced into one body and the soul/body matrix becomes a self-sufficient existential system, while the OP group soul is group-sufficient and references itself over a greater, less defined spectrum.

In my view, OP's are (in their healthy state) environmentally well-adapted, and so are not concerned with abstract questions of self and being in general. Living biologically fulfilled lives in the context of being human, is enough for them. The differentiating visible attribute distinguishing OP's from people with individual soul potential, as mentioned often here, is that individuals are not happy unless they understand the deeper mysteries, because the soul is at the source of those mysteries, and their very bodies are generating a high focus of those soul dynamics regardless of conditioning and acquired inhibitions.

It is like the individual (or potentially so) person senses they are as a universe unto themselves, or a microcosm of the whole, while the OP feels to be a part or extension of the whole. Both can have "mystical" experiences of unity and connection with the All, but the OP will feel as a part of a greater picture while the individuated person will feel microcosmically complete within the macrocosmic whole, because their soul is associated with their body, which has definite boundaries.

In addition, it has been stated that even ensouled individuals need to evolve that soul coherence to properly be indentified as such, meaning most if not all of us are individuals-in-becoming. We are probably not associated with soul pools as such (which may be why potential individuals may feel they do not "fit in"), but initially the soul presence is just as diffuse as it is in an OP.

The latter can then enjoy a kind of collective support the potential individual does not. We are on our way to greater focus, however, and hence vulnerable because it is not so difficult for ego patterning (a pseudo-soul) to attempt to compensate for the as yet dim or uncrystalized soul presence (without soul pool support). One can end up, in those terms, with a very coherent ego and a soul suppressed under it.

"Who am I ?" and "Why am I?" are questions that burn within the potentially individualized person. They are important to them, while OP's may consider such inquiries a waste of time and resources. I have observed OP's interested in these topics, but mainly for purposes of social bonding or to indicate some kind of "cultivation" on their part. The potential individual, however, usually is persistent in trying to understand the nature of their existence and all existence, for that matter, and what lies beyond the five senses, and that persistence is often irritating to the OP.

As the individuating soul matures and becomes even more coherent, they seek to affirm their relationship to the environment in terms of the mysteries that concern them. They seek to apply those mysteries in life. They come full circle from the abstract to the concrete, and then they may find more points of contact with the OP than they had otherwise thought possible.

---

Regarding the issue of 4D STS feeding on humanity, from what I understand here, they seem to want to convert humans into bio-factories that produce a certain type of "energy", for lack of a better word. If they wanted to feed on the heart or soul they could just assist in its development and benefit from its grace-output. STO is "service to others" and they could be those "others", and all would be happy.

Instead, as I see it, they want to generate trauma on the human body/mind so that what is generated is not the true essence potential, but the complete opposite. Personally, I do not see 4D STS "feeding" upon humans so much as attempting to convert them into "terraforming modules", to generate an environemnt in which they can thrive. Apparently, their environment is degrading and of course one feeds off of their environment. I sense, however, that the biological analogy of individual feeding or feeding on individuals like we feed on animals can be misleading in this case.

Judging from the correspondence between soul-pools of lower animal life forms and 4D STS, it may be that soul individuation may be the "disruptive" force here, from the point of view of 4D STS. It is certainly the new element in nature that seemed to bring adversity out of 4D STS right off the bat. In other words, the individual soul may be toxic to these beings, as may be even mammilian soul pools to a lesser extent.

4D STS may refuse or be unable to adapt to the greater manifestations of soul coherence in the lower densities. Associated with "lizards" they may be true dinosaurs (or the 4D version of such) that refuse to admit that they have gone extinct and its time to move on, and are trying to turn back the clock, as it were. They may want to recondition human genetic potential to a pre-soul state that suits their existence. Since, however, humans are designed for greater (and often much greater) soul coherence than reptilian forms, this seems to be like trying to pound the proverbial square peg into the round hole.

It has been said that the ancient reptoid called Velocaraptor (spelling?) seemed to have been evolving into an anthropoid version, and there have been models constructed as to what such a being would look like if the cosmos and planet had not "decided" that this was not in the best interest of reality at large. Can anyone imagine a Homo Raptorus civilization? Not only does this sound like the Lizzies (at least a 3D version of them), but the constructed models look like what some abducties and dreamers have seen.

So if Lizzies are Raptors in the future, how would they react when all of the sudden the cosmos throws a meteor on their past? I would think they would try to reclaim it somehow, and if they could not make things as they were, would try to hijack the offending life 3D life forms and mould them into something acceptable to bridge the temporal gap between past and future on their terms.

Anyway, in the context of this discussion, it is something to consider.
 
Nathan said:
Being sympathetic towards animals moreso than humans makes sense to an OP because they are closer to 2nd density than souled 3D people. There is still a familiar bond there, a bond to 2nd density that is yet to be completely severed. Perhaps this explains the closeness to animals disproportionate to that of humans?
Yeah but in 2nd density, animals saw saw no differenciation between 3rd and 2nd, they saw humans as just other animals and so developed a bond just as easily for humans as other animals. So when an animal turns into an OP, if he were to subconsciously feel an empathic bond to animals because he was one himself very recently, it makes no sense to me why that bond would not include humans as well - because when he was an animal, humans were perceived as just another animal, the animal thought humans were just like itself. As a human, an OP perceives a differenciation between humans and animals, but this is a purely human perspective, and in fact, from the new 3rd density human perspective, animals are no longer part of "his kin", not more than humans are anyway. So this makes me think that the empathic bond OPs would feel towards animals would be based on a residue of what is 2nd density in them - which includes the residue of 2nd density perspective and state of mind. However, since 2nd density never saw any difference between itself and humans, that empathic bond that an OP feels, which is BASED on the residue of that perspective, should equally apply to animals and humans then. If that bond was based on a human perspective, then it probably would have nothing to do with the fact that the being is part 2nd density.

An animal does not empathize with other animals any more than it does with humans. Animals only empathize for survival-based and attachment-based reasons. So immediate family, members of same pack, a mate, or a human family (which is basically a type of pack for the animal, which it knows is important for its survival). But an animal cannot see that humans and animals are 2 different things, so if an OP retains some of that animalistic perspective which makes him feel an affinity to "his kin", then it just makes sense to me that "his kin" would include animals and humans. I think the "familiarity-based" or "group-based" empathy is a human thing, maybe a low end of the empathy spectrum, but still I think it is a 3rd density thing.

Does that logic make sense to anyone else? So I actually lean towards the idea that an OP experiences a lower kind of empathy, kinda like an animal, which is attachment-based and occasionally survival-based. Although now that an OP is part human, there are a few more levels like physical empathy - seeing someone get really hurt makes you cringe etc. And maybe the familiarity-based empathy where someone who you perceive to be like yourself is given more importance and more mepathy (based on race, beliefs, whatever). Perhaps for some OPs, animals are included into that "familiarity-based empathy", but that could be true for any normal souled humans as well who have attachment or familiarity with animals, sometimes people just have "bad luck" with human relationships, and this tends to make them, in part, trust or love animals more, just because they don't betray you or do psychopathic things - at least not in YOUR experience with them. Other times people have "enjoyable" experiences with humans, and serious bad luck with animals, which can turn them off to animals.

So in the end, I think the preoccupation with animals is probably more to do with what sort of experiences the individual went through in life, which level of empathy dominates his life, which centers are more active etc - but not so much a subconscious bond due to being part 2nd density.

I could be wrong, it's just some thoughts I had.

Edit: Upon briefly scanning Esoquest's reply, I think he had some similar thoughts. I was in a bit of a rush (at work) and didn't get a chance to read his reply in full yet. Sorry if there's some redundancy.
 
Lucy said:
Cricket said:
The podcast on excorcism: That entity wanted "the heart".

ScioAgapeOmnis has expressed it quite accuratelly: The Heart. Our "juice" of life, the innocence (child like) of non-anticipation. The nobleness of our thoughts and of our wishes for the others, conveyed through our eyes, crystal clear and tender. The tone of our voice. The tone of our thoughts.... soft, human, comprehensive for your feelings and your sufferings and your happyness and your longings... This "core" through the which or about the which we do fall in love for another person, by instance -the WHAT which we get to miss of that person... even after years of absence. Such a "WHAT" is what inspires us, by instance, to perform this or that utterly STO action: "Oh I will surprize him/her with a nice dinner for when he/she comes home!", etc.

The heart.

And, under 4D-STS influence, is not PRECISELY THIS what results destroyed?

Thats what they want. Flyes attracted to that fire (inner fire). Do they have to extinguish it to get to the bone? Or they stare at it, like imbeciles, not understanding why "one can actually feel the pain"?
Wouldn't they underestimate its power since they can't really experience or 'know' of it themselves? I can see why to them it would appear to be a defect, or weakness, while to us it is the one thing (that place where we draw the final line?) we will continue to fight to retain. If for no other reason they would want to destroy it because they see its importance to us, that we value it even if only unconsciously. If they can destroy it, we having nothing left to fight with. So, they may not fully understand 'why' that is, but instead just understand on some level that that's the way it works?
Cricket said:
The one thing we would continue to fight to defend... Yes. The ONE THING we humans, persons, have as sacred. THE ONE THING where the final line is draw... And the ONE THING we can fight them with.
Our will. Our impulse. Our incorruptible decision. Our spontaneous enthusiasm to collaborate besides another. Our "inner draw" to REALIZE things as to transfigure dreams, pouring them into reality (from oniric realm to concrete stuff!). Our effort to awake! (this effort, this deeeeeeeepest desire which suddenly awakens on our conscience, comes, I think, naturally: it is the Life acting. Like to love. Like to grow and learn, so the realization of our state of slaves suddenly unveils it's self to each one of us. Some ignore it. Some make it a school).
This most be even offensive to them (our inner draw). A obstacle to their desires. I do not think they underestimate it's power. I think it is less than that, Lucy. I think they dismiss it as something stinky, without value because they, of course, have the real powerful stuff: Their "exquisite existence" and the dangerous situation they find their selfs to be as of now (they might no make it!). So they don't have eyes for this treasure. So cannot gauge it. They want to move it aside, as if it were a fly passing by, bothering stubbornly. They WISH we did not had it! "Ahhh.... wouldn't that not make our task more easy?" -they say to each others. There are many ways to dye: To loose this "inner draw", this "luminance" (as i think the C's spelled and Laura did noticed it by expressing: "Funny spelling!") renders a efficient slave and a delicious bite.
Lucy I liked the place where you put the final line, being this luminance: It is this depth the psychopath has to touch for us to stop forgiving, isn't it? This "enough" place, expressed on Laura's motto ("When a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight it concentrates his mind wonderfully"), is also the "trigger" place": When they touch it, we come-up with all our might and, without reflection, we just dye defending it since there is not a "beyond" beyond that.
I've been away from the forum for 10 days, out of town dealing with a loved one who needed and wanted my help, or so I thought.

It was a long drawn out painful experience that came to a swift and shocking conclusion culminating in that person 'touching' that "enough" place in me, and everything changed in an instant, as I found "I could no longer forgive one more time."

I was able to disconnect, although I assure you this disconnection was, and still is, very painful. And it happened in an instant. I didn't need time to reflect, to soul search, to examine the details in great detail, attempting to discern any misconceptions I could be laboring under, to ponder if I was being fair and seeing clearly. To consider his 'pain' or need. No. I just knew.
I felt it. It was like a sucker punch to my psyche.

It became clear in that instant that this person whom I'd considered to possess a heart and an ability to love either has no such ability at all or this ability is of no interest to him. In fact, he is contemptuous of my heart...and evidently sees it as my greatest weakness. I would say he even finds it distasteful and "stinky," as Cricket says.
I believe he does find my heart to be of value in a certain way, but only as something in me he can exploit as a weakness...to use to manipulate me.

When the "sucker punch" happened, I came out swinging...metaphorically speaking...to protect that "enough place" in myself; my heart. He'd miscalculated this time and went too far, clearly exposing his real nature to me in the process. Not realizing he has gone so far that I will not be so easily fooled or manipulated from now on. He has lost a power he once had over me.

A few days before this happened there was an eerie conversation between us in which my loved one described an "it" that resides in him, impulsing him repeatedly to 'do' certain things that feed "it" and keeps "it" alive. He said that "it" is very persistent because "it" knows that if he stops the lying cheating and other destructive behaviors "it" will cease to exist...and "it" is afraid of that. So "it" will make sure to be persistent and do whatever it takes to continue existing in him.

No, this loved one is not schizophrenic, but his behavior could be described as depraved...although he has done a fine job of hiding that up until now, and of maintaining a very charming facade.

I think I was being given a glimpse of his predator in that conversation, of the driving force behind his depraved behavior. Or maybe I was 'seeing' the true person. I'm not sure. It was frightening, raising goosebumps and the hair on the back of my neck, and brought to mind the excorcism podcast.

To be truthful, at this time I don't know for sure if my loved one ever had a heart or not...I don't know for sure 'what' he is. I don't know if the predator managed to 'take' his heart...to destroy it...or if he is under the influence of something evil that is in possession of him.

But, I came to understand, in a flash, that my loved one does not have a 'heart' operating within him at this time, and that he has completely miscalculated the power of mine, it's importance to me., and what I will do to protect it. He still doesn't realize how he has given himself away. Although I can see that he despises it, and me for having it, and clearly finds it distasteful, it is still an unknown thing to him that he doesn't understand. There seems to be a strange dichotomy involved in how this works: On one hand he feels contempt, and sees this as my greatest weakness, and yet at the same time seems also to sense some 'power' that he fears, and doesn't want to expose himself to at great length. Perhaps it is the fear of the unknown? Or perhaps he realizes he has exposed himself...that I've caught on?

Opinion: He isn't jealous of me. He does not want what I have. He considers it inferior to the power he perceives within himself. In his mind, to be like me would make him weak and contemptable. He likes himself the way he is.

Any comments?

Lucy
 
Well done. That is my main comment for you, because you've done, from my own understanding, the hardest thing in the world to do. You saw this loved one for who he is, not for who you want him to be, nor for who he could possibly be - but for who he IS NOW- and, yes, it does hurt very badly to realize that someone you thought was like you, is in fact not like you at all. I think that your opinion of the situation and of him is one hundred percent correct. I also think that the way you described his view of your capacity to feel, of your heart, is also completely correct. I do feel for you, and I wish I could take away the pain that comes when the mask is ripped off of someone you thought was real family - but that pain is the heat that fuses the knowledge inside of you; that pain is capable of helping you to never forget what really matters, which is that heart of yours, and your growing ability to See. It is a great thing to realize for the first time that no one can take away what you've learned; I think perhaps without the pain of learning it, it might not be so permanent a thing. No matter what, though, I have to say, "Well done".
 
The question I can't really find an answer to, is if these malevolent beings want us under their thumb, why haven't they bombed us back to the Stone Ages already? As fragile as our tech-driven society is, a few planetwide EMPs, and it would be all over for us. And there's probably weapons they have that we don't even have enough brains to comprehend. We're fairly fragile and vulnerable, and not that bright (comparatively speaking).

I think the answer is karma. They are just as aware of karma as the good guys are, and they don't want to suffer any more blowback from their actions than anyone else.

I remember the C's saying something about "simple karmic understandings" being one of the practical test standards for qualifying for 4D (good or bad). So they are keenly aware of it and its consequences.

It's probably the only real protection we've had all these "years". They'd rather cause someone else to do their work (of their own free will), than have to intervene directly. Because the bulk of the karma would fall on someone else.

I think their motivation is more like the dairy farmer than anyone else - they don't want any more cows than they have from jumping the fence and escaping. They can't milk a cow that's gone off the farm.
 
Lucy said:
A few days before this happened there was an eerie conversation between us in which my loved one described an "it" that resides in him, impulsing him repeatedly to 'do' certain things that feed "it" and keeps "it" alive. He said that "it" is very persistent because "it" knows that if he stops the lying cheating and other destructive behaviors "it" will cease to exist...and "it" is afraid of that. So "it" will make sure to be persistent and do whatever it takes to continue existing in him.
I'm glad you made it through what must have been hell. And if you can write it out, you made it in one piece regardless of any bruising. One of the greatest things understanding the nature of the manipulator can give is the ability for closure. As long as a little doubt regarding the truth of such a situation remains it can grow back into a sharp needle of regret within. But when it's clear its clean, and even if wounds remain, they can heal without infection.

I found myself taken in by the "it" story many times in the past. It may well be true. One thing I know is that STS influence or "it" does not reveal itself like that unless it has a reason for doing so. It wants to give the impression that its not the manipulators "fault", that he/she is just as much a victim as the true victim of manipulation, and even more so.

On the other hand, psychopaths are masters at manipulation and use the theme of "otherness within" as the source behind their actions as a line of defense, and to draw the victim back into their web if their nature is uncovered. If the manipulator especially knows that you may believe that people can be influenced in this manner, they are sure to play upon that and any other belief systems they deem useful to keep the wool over your eyes.

Anyway, you did good IMO. Congradulations. :)
 
Lucy said:
A few days before this happened there was an eerie conversation between us in which my loved one described an "it" that resides in him, impulsing him repeatedly to 'do' certain things that feed "it" and keeps "it" alive. He said that "it" is very persistent because "it" knows that if he stops the lying cheating and other destructive behaviors "it" will cease to exist...and "it" is afraid of that. So "it" will make sure to be persistent and do whatever it takes to continue existing in him.
This calls my attention in a very strange way. Evidently this conversation was eerie, and HURRAY for your braveness and capacity of to react on what was going on ("it happened in an instant" -so it happens the attack, using the surprize factor, pushing you, Lucy, to react almost in a instinctive manner, yet, a magnetized instinctive manner in your case!), but the conversation was also in such a terms which are, I think, quite 'familiar' to your esoteric and "secret" knowledge, as if talking to you in your terms, in terms you would "get"!
I am very suspicious of the languaje he used with you.
EsoQuest said:
One thing I know is that STS influence or "it" does not reveal itself like that unless it has a reason for doing so. It wants to give the impression that its not the manipulators "fault", that he/she is just as much a victim as the true victim of manipulation, and even more so.
Indeed. I think "it" did revealed its self to you, Lucy. EsoQuest continues saying it did it to give the impression that it is not his fault, and thats quite alright but I suspect, I smell more than that. Please keep this in your pocket: Sometimes attacks are performed through 3rd parties... and precisely one you love!
This indicates me youre "cooking" your centers. Since before this encounter, of coure. And it might be the reazon for such a conversation. As Ann said
Anart said:
but that pain is the heat that fuses the knowledge inside of you
I am saying that conversation was so tacit and explicit, I just feel the urge to sugest you to still consider it a "open issue", not necesarly with this same actor to appear on the next scene!
It might have only started there.
You have my simpathy.
Keep on alert and I appologize to sound and sugest a non-conclusive line of action for you.
Be safe.
 
anart said:
I have to say, "Well done".
EsoQuest said:
I'm glad you made it through what must have been hell. And if you can write it out, you made it in one piece regardless of any bruising. ...you did good IMO. Congradulations. :)
Cricket said:
HURRAY for your braveness and capacity of to react almost in a instinctive manner... You have my simpathy. Be safe.
Well gosh, you guys, thanks for all your kind words of encouragement and concern, they brought tears to my eyes. When I asked for comments, these weren't the kind I was thinking of, or expecting. That only made them all the sweeter to receive.

Along with patting me on the back, all of you have also made some observations that I think were right on the money, as well as comments that have given me much to think about.

anart said:
You saw this loved one for who he is, not for who you want him to be, nor for who he could possibly be - but for who he IS NOW-.
Yes, by doing that it strips away the old programs, the 'emotional baggage' that is connected to family relationships, and which keeps those cherished illusions in place. And, in doing this there is no labeling, or hand wringing, or guilt, to makes things murky...no secondary considerations to get in the way. What or who he may be, in a cosmic sense, is secondary to what his is NOW in actuality. Now that I know how this 'feels' I think I'll have more success doing it in other situations as well. It's as though I passed the 'acid test' with this one.

anart said:
I think perhaps without the pain of learning it, it might not be so permanent a thing.
Absolutely true. I would say the pain shocked me enough to break most, maybe all, of the psychic hooks he had in me, and then acted like a 'fixative' to preserve the 'feeling' of that experience inside me. I have actually felt physically different ever since, more energetic and alert, and more able to deal with whatever residual psychic hooks I do happen to find.

EsoQuest said:
One of the greatest things understanding the nature of the manipulator can give is the ability for closure. As long as a little doubt regarding the truth of such a situation remains it can grow back into a sharp needle of regret within. But when it's clear its clean, and even if wounds remain, they can heal without infection.
Yes, it was like stripping a bandage off quickly, so quickly that there was no time to think, to chiciken out, and it makes for a cleaner break. I would like to think the healing will be without infection. I can already perceive the healing. I never would have thought it would or could progress so quickly!

EsoQuest said:
Lucy said:
A few days before this happened there was an eerie conversation between us in which my loved one described an "it" that resides in him, impulsing him repeatedly to 'do' certain things that feed "it" and keeps "it" alive. He said that "it" is very persistent because "it" knows that if he stops the lying cheating and other destructive behaviors "it" will cease to exist...and "it" is afraid of that. So "it" will make sure to be persistent and do whatever it takes to continue existing in him.
.
I found myself taken in by the "it" story many times in the past. It may well be true. One thing I know is that STS influence or "it" does not reveal itself like that unless it has a reason for doing so. It wants to give the impression that its not the manipulators "fault", that he/she is just as much a victim as the true victim of manipulation, and even more so.

On the other hand, psychopaths are masters at manipulation and use the theme of "otherness within" as the source behind their actions as a line of defense, and to draw the victim back into their web if their nature is uncovered. If the manipulator especially knows that you may believe that people can be influenced in this manner, they are sure to play upon that and any other belief systems they deem useful to keep the wool over your eyes.
Yes, this person may think I could be influenced in this manner, although his assessment of what I 'believe' is a couple of years out of date, therefore he would be basing this on his 'idea' of what would be likely to influence me rather than the truth of the matter. But it was a good gamble on his part. I have considered several possible angles. It could have been part of an elaborate con game to keep a hook in me in case he decides to reel me back in for more manipulation while at the same time wringing some pity out of me. It's difficult to know for sure. Neither worked though. Rather than jumping to firm conclusions, I'm trying to stay alert and take note of things, while waiting to see what may come down the road.

An interesting thing, that I left out of my original post, is that at the end of this little soliloquy of his I suggested that he had the power to get rid of "it" by simply not listening, or doing what "it" wanted, and then "it" would disappear once and for all. At that point he turned his head and looked me fully in the face for the first time, and with a cunning smirk said, "Well, maybe, but I don't really know if that is true, now do I?" There was a strange 'speculative' look on his face, as well as a look of surprise at what I had suggested. THAT was very creepy to see and hear. I simply replied that it was something he could think about, and got up and left the room. I could no longer stand to be there with him.

Cricket said:
This [eerie conversation] calls my attention in a very strange way. Evidently this conversation was eerie, and HURRAY for your braveness and capacity of to react on what was going on ("it happened in an instant" -so it happens the attack, using the surprize factor, pushing you, Lucy, to react almost in a instinctive manner, yet, a magnetized instinctive manner in your case!), but the conversation was also in such a terms which are, I think, quite 'familiar' to your esoteric and "secret" knowledge, as if talking to you in your terms, in terms you would "get"!
I am very suspicious of the languaje he used with you.
Yes, I had a sense of this, both of a familiarity with the language he used, and that it was being directed at me in a particular way. Very disturbing. I've never heard this person speak in this manner before, although that doesn't necessarily mean anything. But, part of the experience was also the look on his face, and the way he was talking and gesturing. I guess it was the 'manner' of it as much as the words that disturbed me. I felt like I was on high alert. It could have been simply an attempt to manipulate me from an angle he thought would 'work' on me, or it could have been more. I don't know. But, it certainly got my attention. After I left the room I felt rather shaky and went upstairs to write it down because I felt it would be important for me to be able to remember it accurately. I titled that page in my notebook this way: "A Conversation With the Predator." So I suppose that was my initial perception. And right now I'm suddenly being consumed with "heat" -- so there is something significant in what I'm writing/thinking right now, or so I think.

Cricket said:
EsoQuest said:
One thing I know is that STS influence or "it" does not reveal itself like that unless it has a reason for doing so. It wants to give the impression that its not the manipulators "fault", that he/she is just as much a victim as the true victim of manipulation, and even more so.
Indeed. I think "it" did revealed its self to you, Lucy. EsoQuest continues saying it did it to give the impression that it is not his fault, and thats quite alright but I suspect, I smell more than that. Please keep this in your pocket: Sometimes attacks are performed through 3rd parties... and precisely one you love!
This indicates me youre "cooking" your centers. Since before this encounter, of coure. And it might be the reazon for such a conversation. As Ann said
Anart said:
but that pain is the heat that fuses the knowledge inside of you
I am saying that conversation was so tacit and explicit, I just feel the urge to sugest you to still consider it a "open issue", not necesarly with this same actor to appear on the next scene!
It might have only started there.
You have my simpathy.
Keep on alert and I appologize to sound and sugest a non-conclusive line of action for you.
Be safe.
As I read this I suddenly got cold, and had to get up to put on a sweater. Usually I feel heat when I encounter something significant, as happened above. This coldness is not as usual for me. Of course, it may not mean anything at all. But....the next attack from this person has already started, although fortunately I'm now about 200 miles away from him, so he is only able to use email and the phone. I am sharing the nasty emails with other family members, in effect "giving the lies the truth they deserve." And after several strange phone calls today I tried to tell him he is no longer welcome to contact me or my teenage daughter because I consider that contact to be detrimental to us. Before I was even able to finish what I was trying to say he erupted into obscenities and accusations, so I hung up. He called back and left a message on my voice mail, but I haven't yet listened to it. Now that I've 'challenged' him (or the predator?) he may try a new tactic, one I haven't encountered before. And since there is physical distance between us at this time, it is possible for another person physically closer to be 'activated'...an unpleasant thought. It's not over. I know that. he hasn't given up...and doesn't seem to understand why I'm not 'playing the game' anymore. Very strange under the circumstances.

Ironically, just today I posted this on CassChat:

In the second part of Laura's article, Ascention: The Quest
For the Holy Grail http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/ascension2.htm
Laura makes this observation:
"Mouravieff points out a number of times that when an individual
seeks to escape the control of the Matrix, when we make our position
clear by any numbers of means - like building an anti- Matrix
website - there will be no lack of "external attacks" because the
Matrix frowns on those who resist and reject its controls. The
Matrix, as we have seen, takes immediate steps - as Mouravieff puts
it 'a whole series of appropriate measures - to make the rebel fall
back into line.'"

If I'm 'worthy' of these attacks, then I must be DOing something right! So I'm seeing this situation as an indication that I'm making progress! Which almost makes it funny in a 'noir' kind of way. I'm a rebel! Of course I always knew I was!

Thanks Cricket, EsoQuest and Anart, for your concern and advice. I will keep my eyes open, and stay alert for another possible vector of attack. And I'll keep you posted of anything significant.

You guys are great! :D
 
To me STS's are totally blind to the idea that cosmic forces must remain in balance. Essentially the predators will deliberately kill off all their prey. After they have done this, they will then wonder why they are starving to death.
 
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