Jordan Peterson: Gender Pronouns and Free Speech War

[cinnamon]

Just saw this article covering the tragic story of a detransitioned man Ritchie Herron from the UK, who medically transitioned 9 years ago to become a woman, has been on hormone replacement therapy ever since and 5 years ago he underwent genital reassignment surgery. In March 2022, Herron publicly came out as detrans.

He is full of grief and anger, feels like he has been butchered psychologically and physically, he is angry at everyone who let this happen to him, as at that time he was, according to him, obsessive and deeply unwell. He is painfully reminded on a daily basis 'of his own stupidity'. He took his story on twitter but some of his tweets got removed as they were mass reported, but he is not going to allow that to silence him. A ghastly story. I think he does what he can to help others and warn people out there, he is involved in detrans advocacy, appears on podcasts, writes about his experience and is a member of Genspect’s team, an international alliance of professional groups, parents, trans people, detransitioners, and others who advocate for a better model of care than the current “affirmative” approach.

I looked at that Genspect website, and saw that one of the members is Keira Bell, a 25 year old UK woman, who at the age of 16 began the process of a sex change with help of Tavistock's GIDS and University College of London, taking hormone blockers, cross-sex hormones and then surgery. After 6 years, she discovered all those drugs were leading to negative physical and mental effects and she joined a judicial review case against Tavistock GIDS to challenge the idea that under 18s could give informed consent to this experimental and harmful treatment. In first instance, the court ruled that the doctors of teenagers under 18 may need to consult the courts for authorisation for medical intervention. As a result of the decision, Tavistock's GIDS suspended new referrals for puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones for the under-16s. However, and this should not come as a surprise, Tavistock GIDS appealed and the Appeal court ruled in September of last year that doctors, not judges, can decide on the capacity of under-16s to consent to medical treatment.

Hope that by telling his story he can make a difference in someone's life.

Here's what he wrote on Twitter, in his own words, as copied from his Twitter thread:

Dude needs to take personal responsibility instead of blaming everyone else - if he had done his homework and paid attention to glaringly obvious signs that such a path was not right for him, he wouldn't be in this situation - it's not as though we're talking about a child.

I want to tell everyone what they took from us, what irreversible really means, and what that reality looks like for us.

No one told me any of what I’m going to tell you now.

Historically - and, historically is relevant, because he started going through with this 9 years ago - trans people were obsessive about researching and gathering as much information as possible about these things. Transitioning is a pretty extreme thing, how could anyone go through with it without knowing as much as possible?

I tore a sutra 4 days post recovery, they promised to address it, i begged them in emails to fix it, they scorned me instead.

Years later, I have what looks like a chunk of missing flesh next to my neo-vagina, it literally looks like someone hacked at me.

They still wont fix it

Why was he jumping around 4 days post-op? When I did this - the rule was ~19 days of bed rest - and everything was packed and bandaged very carefully. They won't fix it because they probably can't.

No one told me that the base area of your penis is left, it can't be removed - meaning you're left with a literal stump inside that twitches.

This has been known for 50+ years (NSFW link) - again, why would somebody get surgery without doing their homework?

My sex drive died about 6 months on HRT and at the time I was glad to be rid of it, but now 10 years later, Im realising what im missing out on and what I won't get back.

This is about the strongest possible indicator that one is transitioning for the wrong reasons - the opposite reaction is what is desired - but at any rate, ~80% of these cases of transvestic fetisthists undergoing 'the surgery' wind up inorgasmic.

Because even if i had a sex drive, my neo vagina is so narrow and small, i wouldn't even be able to have sex if i wanted too.

And when I do use a small dilator, I have random pockets of sensation that only seem to pick up pain, rather than pleasure.

...

Then theres the act of going to the toilet. It takes me about 10 minutes to empty my bladder, it's extremely slow, painful and because it dribbles no matter how much i relax, it will then just go all over that entire area, leaving me soaken.

So after cleaning myself up, I will find moments later that my underwear is wet - no matter how much I wiped, it slowly drips out for the best part of an hour.

I never knew at 35 I ran the risk like smelling like piss everywhere I went.
...

And finally, theres dilation, which is like some sort of demonic ceremony where you impale yourself for 20 agonising minutes to remind you of your own stupidity.

Again, this is 'user error'. Post-op paperwork spells out 2x/day for an hour each time for the first year of recovery, with dilators progressively increasing in size. After the first year, it needs to be about an hour per week, although vigorous activity with a suitable male partner can reduce that burden. 'Agonizing' and bladder problems are utterly predictable consequences of failure to keep up with maintenance.

During transition, I was obsessive and deeply unwell, I cannot believe they were allowed to do this to me, even after all the red flags.

Why didn't he see the red flags and decide to stop?

People going mad after doing this sort of thing for the wrong reasons has not been a new concept for 50 years - maybe a compassionate response would be in order if he admitted his contributions to his plight, but instead, no, he wants to blame others for his life not being unicorns and rainbows.

 

[Debra]

Man, poor ol Jordan is taking another hard run at the Medical establishment.
In this YouTube video, recorded on June 16th, 2022, he reads the article he wrote for the Telegraph, a favour for all of us who can’t access the article due to being a non subscriber.

In this very eloquent and angry presentation, he is rightfully targeting his own so called “Band of Brothers”, the psychiatrists, psychologists, Medical physicians and surgeons, all of whom he no longer feels any loyalty, trust or affinity to, due to the enthusiastic “Trans” formations these ghouls are performing on gullible, mentally ill/confused people.

 

[Nienna]

Historically - and, historically is relevant, because he started going through with this 9 years ago - trans people were obsessive about researching and gathering as much information as possible about these things. Transitioning is a pretty extreme thing, how could anyone go through with it without knowing as much as possible?

Cinnamon, I want to thank you for your post. I find it, and others you have posted, very educational. It's really great to have someone who knows how things really work in this area.

It seems that nowadays, and even 9 years ago, so many people don't research much of anything anymore. Even when their own lives are involved. And, not even when their own children are involved. You could take what you have written and include parents of children who are all onboard with these procedures. But, of course, children no longer need parental approval for these surgeries. One can't help but think that there is an ulterior motive at work.

Anyway, thank you again for your contributions on this topic. As well as contributions you make on other topics. If only those who need to read them, would.

 

[Pierre]

This time one transsexual showed his parts to a children audience:

"It's all the same quite particular as a spectacle for a party with children, incomprehensible aggressiveness lobbyist in the face of the innocence of childhood incomprehensible tacit agreement of the authorities"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1538416640748027904

 

[Voyageur]

A little interruption, a happy fathers day!

Here was a note today from JP Sear:

Hey friend, They say Father’s Day is a time to celebrate role models, the dads and father figures, but it’s also a reminder of the responsibility we have to our kids. I believe that it’s our duty as fathers to set the tone of our culture, lead by example and stand up for our family, community, and country. WE need to be the biggest influencers in our children’s life, not some Insta celeb spewing the latest woke-cancel-culture word vomit. We are tasked with instilling the importance of freedom and integrity to our kids. The courage we exhibit through our words and our actions during difficult times provides a visceral example for our children to draw upon when their courage is tested. Be the dad who is unapologetic in his convictions, who fights for freedom and teaches critical thinking. This is our legacy! So, for all the dads out there, enjoy and celebrate today, but take a moment to think about how you can encourage your kids to become the next generation of resilient, freedom-loving warriors. Yours in freedom, JP

 

[Alejo]

This time one transsexual showed his parts to a children audience:

"It's all the same quite particular as a spectacle for a party with children, incomprehensible aggressiveness lobbyist in the face of the innocence of childhood incomprehensible tacit agreement of the authorities"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1538416640748027904

That is abuse,

And I do not mean that to sound over protective of kids, I think kids as they are will find ways to get in trouble and see a whole bunch of things they're not supposed to, and to an extent, it is necessary for kids to grow healthy, roughly speaking.

However, that trouble that kids get into is usually driven by curiosity, which means, it comes from wanting to see something they actually want to see, and this curiosity changes with age as they grow and different things capture their attention.

Throwing this at kids who did not ask for it, who have no framework from which to understand it, is a form of abuse IMO, and I use the word abuse because it has to be shocking and confusing.

And I believe that the real trouble with that, is that these kids could grow up to find abuse pleasant, because of the sexual nature of the exposure. And that is a recipe for disaster for generations, imagine an adult who will seek abusive behavior from authority, it's like a perfect slave.

Now, I do not wish to sound super tragic, as I am aware that there are a lot more factors in the development of a child, but some might not be so lucky.

It's awful, and more awful are the parents that will bring their kids to these events completely convinced that they're doing something good. It's like giving your kids drugs or alcohol at an early age, without telling them what it is and expecting that to toughen them up instead of making them sick.

 

[BHelmet]

Another thought provoking video from Gonzalo Lira. The last bullet in what should be a dead horse. (I'm referring to Lira's credibility; although he does raise some interesting points that might be worth discussion.) Class is in session!

I am only posting this here because Gonzalo Lira's 'analysis' gets a lot of attention on other topics.

(PS, you can breath easy now, this is my last GL hatchet job piece! Well, I am just letting him speak for himself...)

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Peterson's team tweeted this on his behalf today:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1538790109042167810

Looks like he's slowly coming around after the initial period of pro-Ukraine hysteria.

 

[Alejo]

Another thought provoking video from Gonzalo Lira. The last bullet in what should be a dead horse. (I'm referring to Lira's credibility; although he does raise some interesting points that might be worth discussion.) Class is in session!

I am only posting this here because Gonzalo Lira's 'analysis' gets a lot of attention on other topics.

(PS, you can breath easy now, this is my last GL hatchet job piece! Well, I am just letting him speak for himself...)

well, he speaks clearly and articulately.. but I am not sure of what he's actually trying to say... JBP is a centrist who did not conform to his idea of what a prophet should be, he cries and... that's it?

Talk about someone who completely missed the point.

 

[Alana]

well, he speaks clearly and articulately.. but I am not sure of what he's actually trying to say... JBP is a centrist who did not conform to his idea of what a prophet should be, he cries and... that's it?

Talk about someone who completely missed the point.

It sounds like his main beef is that "JP cried in public, he couldn't hold it in like a man, he cried like a b****". Paraphrasing, but the gist.

Which one of JB's videos is he referring to, btw? Because I followed JB after his come back from his health adventures, and I don't remember him crying about people posting hateful messages to/about him on the web. He cries a lot when he recalls people who helped him, or when recounting stories of people coming up to him to thank him for helping them... I might have missed a video though.

In any event, if that's what he thinks is wrong with Peterson, I don't think it deserved a 20 min video by Lira, but he likes to listen to himself talk and cuss and put others "in their place", so I guess I shouldn't have expected more from him. But I was educated a bit more on Lira and how he thinks/operates, so I am glad this was shared.

And geez, I can make a longer and more informed list myself on where JP veers from reality, but the stuff he gets right and the service he offers to the world are invaluable. Maybe jealousy is what bugs Lira?

JP to young men: "clean your room, put yourself and your life in order, take on the burden of responsibility and create meaning in your life for yourself, your family, your community"

GL to young men: "here are some cheap tricks to help you f**** hot women"

 

[T.C.]

Looks like he's slowly coming around after the initial period of pro-Ukraine hysteria.

Possibly. Just a caveat on this though. I think the thing that really triggered him while watching this video is where Mearsheimer said, “The Cold War is in the distant past and I don’t think people, especially young people, nowadays have given much thought to nuclear weapons.”, as that was what Peterson spent many of his younger years giving his thoughts to, and is what lead him into the areas of investigation he’s now known for.

So he may be looking at things more objectively re NATO/western expansionism, but he might have been more weighted towards the nuclear ramifications of Russia being engage in military operations.

 

[Alejo]

In any event, if that's what he thinks is wrong with Peterson, I don't think it deserved a 20 min video by Lira, but he likes to listen to himself talk and cuss and put others "in their place", so I guess I shouldn't have expected more from him. But I was educated a bit more on Lira and how he thinks/operates, so I am glad this was shared.

Yes, it's like... he felt he needed to say something about JBP and said the first few things that came to his head without too much thought behind it and posted and... that was it.

JP to young men: "clean your room, put yourself and your life in order, take on the burden of responsibility and create meaning in your life for yourself, your family, your community"

GL to young men: "here are some cheap tricks to help you f**** hot women"

That's probably the best way to put it, talk about a false prophet, I don't mean to make a distasteful comparison but, it's like what Paul said... There's the way of the flesh and the way of the spirit, a false prophet would drag you away from the spirit by having you focus on the flesh.

Not that there isn't a fleshly dimension to the way JBP is suggesting to young men, but one of the lands you at being an immature player and the other can land you in the shoes of a gentleman with a conscious dark side, if that makes sense.

 

[Ryan]

He cries a lot when he recalls people who helped him, or when recounting stories of people coming up to him to thank him for helping them...

Yeah, I've only ever seen him cry in relation to the suffering of others, or in appreciation.

JP to young men: "clean your room, put yourself and your life in order, take on the burden of responsibility and create meaning in your life for yourself, your family, your community"

GL to young men: "here are some cheap tricks to help you f**** hot women"

Absolutely .

 

[mabar]

I had an unfortunate contemplation towards inclusive language several years ago, at that time I was, as its said emotionally unstable, I had been observing how wrong I was. I thank you for the for their comments and observations.

Although grammatically in the Spanish language it is not quite possible, they are pushing the use of different pronouns, I have found a manual of inclusive language similar to the one I read at that time, with the difference of the informal use of "todes" or "todxs" (all, everybody) and other aberrations for informal inclusive language of an university that is known for its "academic excellence"
I assume it must be similar in other public and private universities as had been at other countries.

The teens of a couple of friends are very familiar with all these nonsense of "new genders" and they think it is cool, for them is fashion where "love is love". Had been sharing videos and links of related articles, so parents can have more better arguments in order for them to reach out their far away already indoctrinated daughters - in this case -. Their moms told me that, their kids learned all this stuff while being at home too much time during the Plandemia.

Below, this kid encourage others to get used to ask others their pronouns because it can change by the day or hour or month or whatever at any time.
In Spanish

Love this comment:
I perceive myself as the owner of Infobae and I tell you to stop publishing this nonsense.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1538922867101949953

 

[Ben]

At my workplace 'Pride Month' is being observed with various events. Fundraising for this charity, for example, which I have not looked into fully (but suspect it's something I want nothing to do with):

Mermaids Website

Helping gender-diverse kids, young people and their families since 1995

mermaidsuk.org.uk

There are a whole load of rainbow flags around the workplace, but also an array of other flags which I have never seen before. Today we received an email explaining that these flags do have meanings, although much of it is quite vague and confusing.

For example - the one representing the transgender community contains the colours pink and blue, the explanation being that these are the colours traditionally associated with girls and boys respectively. I thought that was exactly the kind of gender normative wrongthink they are trying to phase out??? Like I said, vague and confusing. Some of them have almost all the colours in the world and are just hideous. Wasn't the rainbow supposed to represent everybody already? It's all a bit much.

Today we have an event, a BBQ and so on, where a raffle is held to support the aforementioned charity. Apparently spare tickets might even be sold to member of the public in the pub which work has hired.

So now, I will try to just ignore this, relax and enjoy the day. I am mentally prepared, however, for it to present me with some absolute BS.