Jordan Peterson: Gender Pronouns and Free Speech War

Mark Dice certainly ain't no Jordan Peterson.

But he is the guy who actually takes the time watching glorified nonsense like the MTV award show. And than it breaks it down for others. Which is really helpfull because it usually shows disturbing signs our society is heading to.

“Gender-Neutral” MTV Movie Awards 2017 - The Most Insane Liberal Propaganda Yet (video: 5 min, doesn't use profound language in this video, well almost doesn't)

https://youtu.be/e2Jh4nZhy-8
 
bjorn said:
Mark Dice certainly ain't no Jordan Peterson.

But he is the guy who actually takes the time watching glorified nonsense like the MTV award show. And than it breaks it down for others. Which is really helpfull because it usually shows disturbing signs our society is heading to.

“Gender-Neutral” MTV Movie Awards 2017 - The Most Insane Liberal Propaganda Yet (video: 5 min, doesn't use profound language in this video, well almost doesn't)

https://youtu.be/e2Jh4nZhy-8

Thanks, bjorn, from posting. I've never really watched MTV, so this short clip was quite the revelation. Disgusting and disturbing.
 
Everyone is becoming so over–sensitive. That they don't want anyone in their bubble.

So what happens, racial segregation returns. But out of free will, and not by force.

It's interesting how something that supposedly is meant to promote tolerence, in practise creates the very opposite. That's some creative spell binding.

Segregation Or Sanctuary? Black-Only University Housing Draws Criticism
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2016/09/08/segregation-or-sanctuary-black-only-university-housing-draws-criticism/

DAVIS (CBS13) – Some are calling it segregation and a step backwards, while others say it’s a boost for the black student population. At Cal State Los Angeles, a new housing program opens up dorms for black students who want to be separated from the rest of the campus.

The housing option is generating criticism on social media. The campus is setting aside 20 spots in their 192 unit dorm complex for African-American students and others who share similar interests or concerns.

A similar housing option is available at UC Davis.

“I think we should support different communities wanting to be together, but there shouldn’t be specific White or Black or Asian dormitories,” says UC Davis student Teresa Chylkova.

Sydney DeLone is the president of the Black Student Union at UC Davis. She spent her freshman year living at Campbell Hall, at the African-American housing complex, where roughly 45-70 students are accommodated per year. DeLone says

DeLone says it’s a positive opportunity for the black student population to have a home base to come home to.

“It was definitely a safe space because you see people that look like you, that are going through the same things you’re going through,” says DeLone.

UC Davis has offered this housing option for two decades now, and university officials say they do not shut anyone out.

“Many of our students who live in this community identify as African or African-Americans, but we also have a number of students who do not, and they want to be there to learn from other students,” says Brenden Petitt, director of the Office of Student Development.

Similar to UC Davis, a Cal State LA spokesperson says they too allow all students to apply for the housing, even if they’re not of African-American descent.

At UC Davis, the program has proved to be successful. Graduation rates are high among black students who live in the African-American theme program.

But still for some, the idea of housing for one specific minority group simply sets us back decades and runs counter to the aims of the civil rights movement.

“What’s next? Are we gonna have Hispanic only, white only?” says Tim Donnelly, a former CA State Assemblyman. “Using tax payer dollars to segregate society, I think is probably offensive to everyone.”
 
I found this recent interview with JP fascinating, partly because of the excellent interviewer:


https://youtu.be/YC1pvjyKYr4

He talks a lot about his ideas on religion and the mystical and touches on many subjects that are closely related to the Work and other concepts we talk about here. For example, he says there is a theological reality underlying our various subsystems and explains why he thinks so and how he arrived at this conclusion. What I really like about Peterson is that he comes at some of the same concepts and solutions as we do from a very different angle, which I find very stimulating. It kind of forces me to make connections, think about things I'm familiar with using different words and approaches etc. Teaser:

"I want the best for what wants the best in you... I am not on the side of you that's aiming at your defeat....I'm on the side of you that's struggling towards the light...That's the definition of love." ~ Jordan Peterson

Well worth the 2,5 hours IMO, even if you are already familiar with many of Peterson's points.
 
Has there been any recent formal outreach to have Peterson as a guest on SOTT radio? His schedule must be quite busy these days but there's no reason to think he wouldn't consider it and attempt to schedule it at some point. Along with the obvious themes related to Political Ponerology, with the amount of research he seems to do on interviewers before he submits to interviews he might well not want to be a guest until he had at least started reading The Wave, possibly without being asked. It would certainly be interesting to have that happen.
 
meta-agnostic said:
Has there been any recent formal outreach to have Peterson as a guest on SOTT radio? His schedule must be quite busy these days but there's no reason to think he wouldn't consider it and attempt to schedule it at some point. Along with the obvious themes related to Political Ponerology, with the amount of research he seems to do on interviewers before he submits to interviews he might well not want to be a guest until he had at least started reading The Wave, possibly without being asked. It would certainly be interesting to have that happen.

Yes we've asked him once. The problem may be that he seems to prefer video interviews mainly, and perhaps prefers that format. Our radio show is, well, a radio show.
 
Joe said:
meta-agnostic said:
Has there been any recent formal outreach to have Peterson as a guest on SOTT radio? His schedule must be quite busy these days but there's no reason to think he wouldn't consider it and attempt to schedule it at some point. Along with the obvious themes related to Political Ponerology, with the amount of research he seems to do on interviewers before he submits to interviews he might well not want to be a guest until he had at least started reading The Wave, possibly without being asked. It would certainly be interesting to have that happen.

Yes we've asked him once. The problem may be that he seems to prefer video interviews mainly, and perhaps prefers that format. Our radio show is, well, a radio show.

Could we not do a video interview with him? Maybe it would possible to hook up with him on Skype if he has the time.
 
Jordan Peterson spoke at the Canadian Senate on the 17th of May regarding bill C-16. It's not on You Tube yet but you can watch it from this link here _https://www.sencanada.ca/en/Committees/LCJC/NoticeOfMeeting/452816/42-1

Gad Saad also spoke last week. It was clear there was a bit of animosity towards Gad from certain politicians but they didn't really know how to deal with JP.


https://youtu.be/4WqryoEJqZg?rel=0
 
Beorn said:
Jordan Peterson spoke at the Canadian Senate on the 17th of May regarding bill C-16. It's not on You Tube yet but you can watch it from this link here _https://www.sencanada.ca/en/Committees/LCJC/NoticeOfMeeting/452816/42-1

Gad Saad also spoke last week. It was clear there was a bit of animosity towards Gad from certain politicians but they didn't really know how to deal with JP.


https://youtu.be/4WqryoEJqZg?rel=0

Thanks a lot for posting. Checked some of it out (will catch the rest and the other one with JP.

Gad Saad spoke of "The ethos of victimhood" – “I refer to this as collective Munchausen, namely the pathological request for sympathy and empathy by proclaiming victim status using identity politics and intersectionality.”

He said many things concerning his teaching profession and the subject matter that he feels will be affected most and whereby other people on the panel poo-pooed those fears with the usual "well its already in law and your can still teach" type of comment.

There was the very good trans-gender witness, Theryn Meyer, who does a great job at slamming the minister who proposed the bill – say essentially (and a lot more) the they and their "cronies" are playing the role of social activists with this bill.

At one point Senaor Murry Sinclair (was a judge and lawyer for the First Nations) argued with Saad over the implications of not enshrining the bill, having negative affects on trans-gender's receiving benefits (pensions, military benefits etc.). Saad responded that that was a legal questions and outside his professional concerns, although a concern.
 
Living in Canada, I have been following this fairly closely, along with a similar bill to do with "Islamophobia". Both are obviously attempts to curtail free speech more than anything else although of course that is not how they sell it.

I would think most people agree with the view Jordan Peterson expressed that if an individual politely requests being considered a she instead of a he, that he would. The rest is nonsense, such as demanding access to women's only places (especially to do with sexual assault or reproductive issues), the use of puberty blockers on children, or corrupting the language used for childbirth.It has reached the height of absurdity! What I hate most is that people are made to feel like jerks (intolerant, bigoted, ---phobic) for standing their grounds for norms that apply to 99% of the human population. I find the use of the term 'cis-gender' absolutely appalling. I've even known a few transgenders in my life and although I've not conversed with them on recent changes, I suspect they'd be appalled. They'd certainly expressed no desire to change existing laws or cultural norms; just adapted to them as best they could.

This is an old article, but a good one about the associated linguistic traps:
https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2011/02/21/pedomorphisis-and-the-abortive-language-of-transgenderism/

The insistence of transgenderists that the English language adopt words which ignore all rules of the English language is yet another revealing choice by which transgenderists attempt to operate in a fantasy realm outside of language itself, and demand we all join them non-consensually in abandoning common shared language and supporting their adopted reality.
 
I found this video very touching - a guy who started sorting his life out as a consequence of his watching Peterson's videos and doing the Selfauthoring program. Very inspiring and the similarities between the Work we're doing here and the effect of Peterson's message on people out there are striking. I sure could relate to many of the things this guy has to share from my own journey since finding Laura's work and the forum:


https://youtu.be/DcXJMur--Ic
 
Here's a scary example of the SJW mindset - vegan version. In a way I feel it wasted 18 min of my time, but it did show how the post-modernist mindset has become so pernicious. In this case the presenter starts out just pushing veganism (without any science of course, just "feels"), but by the end she's in full SJW flight.


Also a short vid from a guy who went back to Evergreen College to see what's currently happening there. The head of that loony bin is a full-on moron, that's for sure! At least one student is waking up to the danger though, if only a little.
 
I found this piece floating around on social media, it's pretty intriguing to read a feminist's perspective that is rather distanced from the whole SJW attitude of 'intersectionality.' Throughout the piece she argues rather well for maintaining spaces for cis-women and why it's important to draw a distinction between cis and trans women.

Of course she was immediately labeled as 'transmisogynistic' or 'transphobic' and a lot of the activist types have dismissed her words are 'garbage' which is exactly what she complains about in the piece.

Quite a good read imho, just to get an idea about what some other people think on this issue:

_https://medium.com/athena-talks/i-am-not-a-cis-woman-i-am-a-woman-and-that-matters-da2248223e2a

Silenced by men first and now trans women. Will women ever not feel silenced?
I asked why as a woman who was born with woman parts it is now considered transphobic to want to have conversations about the distinct and unquestionable differences in life experience between cis and trans women. I asked why when women have faced systematic violence at the hands of men and 1 in six women is raped, is it wrong for cis women to have some spaces just for them to feel safe in a world where they don’t? And I was immediately threatened, labeled as transphobic, and left to feel as if my voice was nothing.

I am angry. Angry because now even questioning these issues is seen as an act of hate, discrimination, or intolerance. Angry because wanting to have open conversations is now considered hate speech. I am angry that as a woman who has constantly had to be careful of my language and behavior around men to ensure my own safety, I am now being forced to police my language even more, around and for trans women who had entirely different experiences and anatomy. Female language around female issues is important to many cis women because we have struggled to even have our identities and issues seen as valid.

Now before you make any assumptions let me be clear. I respect everyone’s rights to their pronouns, to surgeries they want, to safe spaces, to tolerance, and to living as humans with human rights and respect. And I will help you fight for that. But my being born with a vagina and the treatment that comes from that matters in the conversation around the rights of trans women.

Chest feeding instead of breast feeding? We are still struggling to make breastfeeding in public considered normal and natural, instead of lewd and inappropriate.

People saying the word mother isn’t inclusive to transgendered pregnant people, while moms still struggle to get basic maternity leave and not lose their jobs after having a baby, and even still deal with extremely dangerous situations due to mistreatment during childbirth.

Saying that because you are a woman, your penis is a female penis and should be seen as a vagina in change rooms and woman spaces? Women constantly still deal with being sent dick pics, and being flashed, and forced to see penises when we never consented to. As a rape survivor this can be especially difficult for me.

A rich famous celebrity trans woman who had been a man for so so many years, winning awards, and being respected as a man suddenly becomes a woman and wins a women’s award over women who had far far more right.

Telling lesbian woman they are transphobic if they do not overlook a pre op trans woman’s penis. Even showing up with bats to the Chicago Dyke March to protest this “cotton Ceiling.”

Calling anyone who dares acknowledge that even after the surgeries, the genitals and reproductive systems of a trans individual are different a bigot or transphobe. Insisting that these differences do not matter and are not allowed to matter to potential bed partners and even having classes on how to coerce lesbians into being ok with penis. In sex every preference is ok(barring pedophilia,beastiality, and assault). It’s sex. You should not need to feel pressured to sleep with someone because not doing so makes you transphobic.

Trans women who have never had or known what it is to have a uterus, invading infertility forums, ignoring entirely how different that struggle is for someone who was born with a uterus that is nonfunctioning. A basic struggle for these women is around not being woman enough despite having all the parts and when a trans woman enters that space, cis women often feel invalidated, offended, and angry. But they fear expressing this because the moment you try, you are spewed insults.

These are just few examples that you find on any and every forum dealing with transgender rights.

Women who were born with vaginas have always faced a systematic oppression whether you see it or not. WE feel it. Our feelings of shame and disgust around our own bodies when it comes to hair, periods, vaginal discharge, even our vagina’s size and look and our breast size and looks, are real and important to acknowledge. And they are reinforced by how society portrays all of those subjects. The way we behave is conditioned from early on to ensure we never escalate situations with men, always carry weapon or text friend to ensure safety, always fear rape more than murder and know that when it does happen, we will not be heard and he will never see a jail.

And I am not saying transgendered people do not also face oppression and suffering and feelings of disgust, but there is a huge and important difference. And whether you were able to see it or not, if you looked male for part of your life, you experienced a different life than myself. You got privileges regardless of if you were aware of them. And no matter what your oppression and violence does not validate your right to supersede woman in the discussion. Women face that shit too.

And I am not saying you don’t have a right to transition, you do. But I have a right to natal born woman spaces. I have a right to the language that I am barely allowed to use currently. I have a right to not be forced to see a penis in a changing rooms, just because you see it as a lady dick. I am generally the one ok with nudity, but as a rape survivor, sometimes I don’t want to be exposed to a penis which is why I sometimes need women changing rooms. And no you identifying as female doesn’t decrease the shock value when I suddenly see a penis and wasn’t expecting too.

I have the right to want to protect the language and experience of being woman from birth because I have never felt equal to a man. Because that language is all I have that was and is mine. My vagina and uterus, I have my own issues around them and you trying to take away my language around them, is just more oppression to me. It looks the same regardless of if its coming from a man or trans woman . Other natal born women oppress each other as well.

This “cotton ceiling” fight is oppressive to lesbian women who fight every fucking day to gain respect and equality based on the their sexual preferences. Being told by trans women to get over the penis thing sounds identical to how men often try to bully lesbians into fucking them.

There should be safe spaces for everyone, but don’t ask for trans only safe spaces and then also try to force your way into woman only spaces. Some of us want vagina woman only spaces and thats ok too. Especially when rewriting bathroom laws leaves us open to predators.

Don’t call me transphobic when I fight for your right to your surgeries and tolerance, and use your pronouns, while also asking to still have my womanhood recognized as different than yours.
When I first attempted to ask in conversations and online, why there is not space for cis women to express their needs in this conversation, I was met with slurs, threats, and even a death threat.
“Choke on my female cock, terf” I received this from multiple individuals on an online forum. There are multiple spaces dedicated entirely to women who dared want to express these feelings and in doing so received hundreds of threats, sexual harassments, and threats of sexual harm often by transgender individuals.

Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie came out trying to discuss the distinctions between women and trans women and was utterly crucified. Julie Bindel, Jane Murray, and Germaine Greer have also faced threats, being fired, being no platformed, and in other ways censored for adamantly holding to the female and male differences.

To even try to speak to any of this and how its made us feel is to be instantly labeled a “terf”, called antifeminist, and threatened.

Stop policing my language. Its already policed by men, I don’t need your group of trans women to do it too.

I am watching my birth control rights, my abortion rights, my rights to toplessness, fall away. I am watching sexual predators strut around the white house. I am watching women feeding their children be yelled at harassed and shamed for the most natural act. I am being forced to see my own body as only sexual every fucking day when I get catcalled or try to go online dating. I am forced to either conform to men’s standards on my body or risk being ostracized by them. Even choosing not to wear makeup, even choosing not to want motherhood, brands me as not woman enough.

Its not ok for the 1 percent of the population that is transgender to add to those oppressions. And it is not ok for you, in your fight for rights, to ignore my voice and trample on my rights.

I will call you by your pronoun, I will fight for your right for safety, surgery, trans safe spaces and even trans- inclusory women’s spaces, but you also have to be ok with me wanting my language and my cis only spaces. Its hypocritical if you don’t. We are both facing struggles, and I cannot imagine what you are going through, but you cant imagine my reality either.

Its not transphobic to want some cis only spaces. Its not transphobic to want to keep some of my language that I already fight for every day. It is not transphobic to express my discomfort with some of what the transgender movement is doing in regards to my rights.

If the transgender women’s movement wants all women on their side, the way to get our support is not to ignore us when we cry out about the differences and voice our needs as women who were born women, that just makes it harder for us to want to hear you.

The transgender women’s movement, cannot be another movement that oppresses women, but thats what its seemingly becoming. There is space for both of us in womanhood, but only if you are willing to hear my side too and acknowledge my needs here too.

A good read with quotes from a transgender woman herself: _http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2015/12/gender_critical_trans_women_the_apostates_of_the_trans_rights_movement.html
 

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