Ketoadaptation - Consensus

[Arwenn]

I am getting constipated however, is this normal?

I am on Day 8 and I had to double my Magnesium intake. The dosis I am taking now would have sent me to the bathroom immediately two weeks ago, but now it keeps me regular. Maria Emmrich recommends using Magnesium and I guess one just needs more in the transition phase. So if you are taking Magnesium and it stopped working for you, it might be time to amp up the intake (cautiously).

M.T.

I'm still taking Magnesium- if I don't, the leg cramps come back with a vengeance, as does the constipation. It also helps to rekax me before bed. Initially I was prone to headaches, thirst and constant peeing - having salt in some water first thing in the morning helped with that.
I think the reason I took a while to transition, was because I wasn't eating enough fat and probably too much protein which was feeding the gluconeogenesis pathway.

 

[Vic]

Fatty meat does not seem to exist in the USA unfortunately.

We've had this idea many times in the past I think, but it seems the energy just wasn't there to make it happen. I guess this has a certain timing, and the process has eventually become clear enough that it seems doable.

Sad to hear monotonic, at least here in Europe you can still find fatty cuts from the local butcher (had one for breakfast with a couple of eggs :D )

Re: Ketoadaptation - ConsensusRe: Ketoadaptation - Consensus

Adding pictures to get them accustomed to the idea of what a lot of fat actually means would be good but I it could also scare some people off.

What would scare me is if this meat was factory farmed. I hope it wasn't.

 

[hlat]

It is a pleasant surprise to learn that a person can go directly to ketoadaption, without other steps in between. I do have a lot of reading to do in the health threads, so I am ignorant about which supplements are necessary for ketoadaption.

It's largely a matter of individual needs. People can run into a variety of problems after a lifetime on a "standard" diet (or even years on our old paleo diet), and for each of these there are some solutions. Until you run into problems, it's hard to say what exactly you will end up needing, though some digestive aid (e.g. Betaine HCl, oxbile, ...) are among the most common.

Until Gaby's documents are ready, Emmerich's book Keto-Adapted seems to be the best source addressing the problems people commonly run into as they adopt the ketogenic diet. So you can pretty much look up whatever issues you run into and find e.g. some dietary adjustment or some supplement that can resolve the issue during the transition - or in some cases, it's a matter of correcting some bad habit (often something that many think is "good for us"). Eventually, when the body has fully adapted, additional supplements are no longer necessary. (Though HCl and a few other things can still be good to have on hand at times.)

You can also search the forum when you experience some specific issue - it may have been discussed. Beforehand, though, there's no telling what you'll end up needing, if anything.

I don't have any issues I'm aware of except for weight loss. I have started making the coconut custard so I hope that helps put the weight back on.

I got the Keto-Adapted book earlier in the week, and my spouse will actually be reading it first before me.

 

[nicklebleu]

It is a pleasant surprise to learn that a person can go directly to ketoadaption, without other steps in between. I do have a lot of reading to do in the health threads, so I am ignorant about which supplements are necessary for ketoadaption.

It's largely a matter of individual needs. People can run into a variety of problems after a lifetime on a "standard" diet (or even years on our old paleo diet), and for each of these there are some solutions. Until you run into problems, it's hard to say what exactly you will end up needing, though some digestive aid (e.g. Betaine HCl, oxbile, ...) are among the most common.

Until Gaby's documents are ready, Emmerich's book Keto-Adapted seems to be the best source addressing the problems people commonly run into as they adopt the ketogenic diet. So you can pretty much look up whatever issues you run into and find e.g. some dietary adjustment or some supplement that can resolve the issue during the transition - or in some cases, it's a matter of correcting some bad habit (often something that many think is "good for us"). Eventually, when the body has fully adapted, additional supplements are no longer necessary. (Though HCl and a few other things can still be good to have on hand at times.)

You can also search the forum when you experience some specific issue - it may have been discussed. Beforehand, though, there's no telling what you'll end up needing, if anything.

I don't have any issues I'm aware of except for weight loss. I have started making the coconut custard so I hope that helps put the weight back on.

I got the Keto-Adapted book earlier in the week, and my spouse will actually be reading it first before me.

My experience with the fat bomb is that I need to restrict myself to one a day. I don't have problems with ingesting high amounts of fat, to the contrary. In fact since eating it I have gained some (unwanted) weight.

But it is very tasty and satisfying - to say the least.

 

[hlat]

Well since I want to put back on the weight I lost, perhaps I should be increasing the amount of coconut custard that I eat everyday.

Also, I will look into getting the free ketone meter in the strips thread, since I have never measured my level.

 

[Arwenn]

My experience with the fat bomb is that I need to restrict myself to one a day. I don't have problems with ingesting high amounts of fat, to the contrary. In fact since eating it I have gained some (unwanted) weight.

But it is very tasty and satisfying - to say the least.

I'm surprised to hear people gaining weight on the fat bomb- is it because of the carbs content? For those of us that either want to stay on the weight we're at, or perhaps lose a few kilos, what would the recommendation be for tweaking the Fat Bomb & Coconut Shake recipes?

 

[SMM]

I still haven't got past the sugar cravings yet - well chocolate in my case as I don't usually take sugar in anything.

I think of all the cravings I've had, eating store bought chocolate, even the high% cacao ones (organic/non-organic), are the worst on my system. It causes: disorientation, nauseousnous, lack of concentration, lack of strength, geez, a whole list! It took me some time to get over it, and now I'm avoiding it like the plague! :P Maybe it helps if you write down what you experience, and see whether the cons are worth it, and see if that helps with kicking the habit? Replacing it with homemade chocolate could help too! Also, taking magnesium could be a great help.

Yeah, chocolate cravings are definitely my vice too. I spoiled a long period of ketosis with store bought chocolate and I can attest to gastrointestinal disturbances and all those causes you mention. I think even my throat got inflamed because of it - milk chocolate so probably the dairy?

Writing about it has helped because it really cements what happens subsequently. What also helped was questioning and confronting why the cravings, besides the simple fact it contains addictive ingredients then letting it go or finding other avenues. Remembering big corporatism is behind it all and how much those manufacturers couldn't give a damn about overall health, and that our bodies are our responsibility, helps me think clearly although doesn't stop the cravings.

It's kind of an 'out of sight, out of mind' phenomena for me. But yes, avoiding it like the plague works!

Great Idea Gaby and the video 'How to' as well.

My suggestions (second attempt as lost the last one) are:

Recipes to be for two people max so people like me who botch things up don't waste precious ingredients and money. Plus we can just multiply the ingredients to make more once we have got the hang of it.

Can we know which recipes we can freeze for larger batches?.

Not everyone can get all the ingredients. I cannot get coconut cream, milk (too many additives and E numbers here and only 55% milk), plain gelatin, Xylitol and liquid stevia are a few. Sad as I think I would enjoy the coconut custard.

How to weigh and measure. I have no idea how to work out how much I taking or weighing cooked weight or raw weight and how you work out the fat ratios on daily meals or recipes. I don't understand the calculator either. So I know I am doing things wrong from the off. I never did any diet where you measure stuff. Like fat in pork belly how would I calculate that? Raw or cooked.

Snacks too - no easy ham or pork chorizos or salamis here and I find all my fats melt so whenever I take them with me in an emergency no matter what container or jar I put them in they leak all over the place in these temperatures.

I still haven't got past the sugar cravings yet - well chocolate in my case as I don't usually take sugar in anything.

Supplements. For instance essential ones, others that should also be taken if possible, and those that 'would be nice' if you could afford it.

Just my thoughts for now FWIW thanks.

That is all I can think of for now - thanks.

Handy suggestions happyliza! I think maintaining a ketogenic diet initially takes a good amount of planning particularly when surrounded by those not following the diet.

For measuring and weighing butter, lard or similar fats, you can get measuring cups and measuring spoons. As for meat, raw or cooked, I usually cut and weigh protein and fat separately using a weighing scale, use a keto calculator or use a search toolbar to find estimated values. Maybe others can chime in with suggestions here.

I weigh out on a scale once for a certain cut of meat because I usually buy similar cuts and can estimate from there or just look at my diet logbook etc. It can easily get pedantic so just ensuring a 75%+ to 25% fat:protein ratio and sticking close to that, you shouldn't swing out of ketosis :)

Another suggestion that comes to mind WRT supplements is choline and vitamin C for fat metabolism and cholinergic pathways. Liposomal ascorbic acid is absorbed much more efficiently after ketoadaptation.

I usually hold back from posting in the main "Ketogenic Diet" thread because I am still working my way through the pages and research papers. The propagation of information on this forum is fast!

 

[Cleo]

Think it's a great idea as well. I use to be vegan a few years ago. After reading about diet on the forum sometime around 2011 I believe, I started to slowly cut out gluten and adopt more of a paleo diet. Have thought about transitioning to keto, but felt overwhelmed by the process. Feel more motivated to do so now after reading this thread. Appreciate the work that will go into creating the guide. One of my challenges even over sugar I think, will be cutting back on coffee so information on caffeine intake is of definite interest on my part.

 

[nicklebleu]

My experience with the fat bomb is that I need to restrict myself to one a day. I don't have problems with ingesting high amounts of fat, to the contrary. In fact since eating it I have gained some (unwanted) weight.

But it is very tasty and satisfying - to say the least.

I'm surprised to hear people gaining weight on the fat bomb- is it because of the carbs content? For those of us that either want to stay on the weight we're at, or perhaps lose a few kilos, what would the recommendation be for tweaking the Fat Bomb & Coconut Shake recipes?

Despite the saying that A Calorie is NOT a Calorie there is still some truth to A Calorie is A Calorie.

If you reduce the amount of carbs ingested and keep your amount of protein in the 1g/kg body weight range (so as to not shunt unused amino-acids into glucose production), the amount of fat eaten will somewhat determine your weight. Eat little fat - loose weight. Eat more fat - keep weight, or put weight on, if everything else stays the same.

If your goal is to increase your weight, then my recommendation would be to increase your daily amount of fat, while keeping carbs low and protein intermediate.

 

[darksai]

I've found that I need to be careful how I take my fat bomb. If I have the whole thing along with meat on the side, it's just too much for my stomach and gut to handle without without side effects. Splitting it up a few hours between helps with that quite a bit, though not completely, so I bought digestive enzymes with ox bile and will take B-HCL more often to see if that clears it up.

I split mine in half, and I've been paleo for a year now. I think people who have not had the time to heal from gluten, refined oil, etc., might adapt faster in the long term by starting off with small portions throughout the day, maybe like 20-30g of fats worth of the bomb every 2-3 hours. In that way, the body can go through several full digestive cycles of almost all fat in a single day, but with amounts that it can handle easily. In theory, at least, the higher frequency repetitions should "teach" the body to process the food we want it to process at a faster rate.

 

[Laura]

Despite the saying that A Calorie is NOT a Calorie there is still some truth to A Calorie is A Calorie.

If you reduce the amount of carbs ingested and keep your amount of protein in the 1g/kg body weight range (so as to not shunt unused amino-acids into glucose production), the amount of fat eaten will somewhat determine your weight. Eat little fat - loose weight. Eat more fat - keep weight, or put weight on, if everything else stays the same.

If your goal is to increase your weight, then my recommendation would be to increase your daily amount of fat, while keeping carbs low and protein intermediate.

That seems to be the summary. On the previous keto diet, Ark lost a lot of weight. He tends to eat very little anyway, and going keto, he ate almost nothing because he wasn't enchanted by just meat and fat. Now, with his daily fat bomb, he is perfectly happy to get all those extra calories he needs (but not carbs or protein-to-glucose) for energy enrobed in coconut cream, chocolate, strawberry and now coffee custard! So the skinnies really can put on a bit of weight or maintain, and the chunkies can cut back and nobody is hungry!

 

[lilies]

[..] Now, with his daily fat bomb, he is perfectly happy to get all those extra calories he needs (but not carbs or protein-to-glucose) for energy enrobed in coconut cream, chocolate, strawberry and now coffee custard! So the skinnies really can put on a bit of weight or maintain, and the chunkies can cut back and nobody is hungry!

Can't wait to try all these recipes. I have the feeling these will save us, who adored chocolate and ice-cream of the past.

 

[nicklebleu]

[..] Now, with his daily fat bomb, he is perfectly happy to get all those extra calories he needs (but not carbs or protein-to-glucose) for energy enrobed in coconut cream, chocolate, strawberry and now coffee custard! So the skinnies really can put on a bit of weight or maintain, and the chunkies can cut back and nobody is hungry!

Can't wait to try all these recipes. I have the feeling these will save us, who adored chocolate and ice-cream of the past.

Did a coffee fat bomb the other day - divine! Closely followed by berries ... Tried dark chocolate (85%), too - not really my cup of tea, although I love dark chocolate, too bitter. Somehow the mixture doesn't work too well.

 

[Eboard10]

What would scare me is if this meat was factory farmed. I hope it wasn't.

Nope, it's organic grass-fed pork from a local farm and you can taste the difference! :)

 

[l apprenti de forgeron]

Don't know how ideological you want it to go, but maybe part of a chapter could highlight animal welfare (grass-fed and cared for animals) as well as the vegetarian meme? Points that I've needed to remind myself of often enough: How every being that lives has to let the life of another being go. How there is a natural order of food chains, which provide sufficient nutritional information for the more developed group of beings above it. Just because a plant doesn't have a face doesn't mean it doesn't have feelings.

Perhaps it would be better to make two different projects? I think that Gaby points to something very practical (which condenses a lot of theory and studies). But at the same time we could generate another simultaneous project on the aspects ethical / moral and even religious / existentialist of this diet, to battle against veganism, wich is so functional to Monsanto. And maybe many here could participate in that other hypothetical project.

Despite the saying that A Calorie is NOT a Calorie there is still some truth to A Calorie is A Calorie.

If you reduce the amount of carbs ingested and keep your amount of protein in the 1g/kg body weight range (so as to not shunt unused amino-acids into glucose production), the amount of fat eaten will somewhat determine your weight. Eat little fat - loose weight. Eat more fat - keep weight, or put weight on, if everything else stays the same.

If your goal is to increase your weight, then my recommendation would be to increase your daily amount of fat, while keeping carbs low and protein intermediate.

That seems to be the summary. On the previous keto diet, Ark lost a lot of weight. He tends to eat very little anyway, and going keto, he ate almost nothing because he wasn't enchanted by just meat and fat. Now, with his daily fat bomb, he is perfectly happy to get all those extra calories he needs (but not carbs or protein-to-glucose) for energy enrobed in coconut cream, chocolate, strawberry and now coffee custard! So the skinnies really can put on a bit of weight or maintain, and the chunkies can cut back and nobody is hungry!

These are very good news! It's like you at The Chateau are very close to attain mastery in ketosis. After many trials and errors, you are reaching the best way to feed the body like the ancients knew and followed.