Ketoadaptation - Consensus

[Gaby]

Don't know how ideological you want it to go, but maybe part of a chapter could highlight animal welfare (grass-fed and cared for animals) as well as the vegetarian meme? Points that I've needed to remind myself of often enough: How every being that lives has to let the life of another being go. How there is a natural order of food chains, which provide sufficient nutritional information for the more developed group of beings above it. Just because a plant doesn't have a face doesn't mean it doesn't have feelings.

Perhaps it would be better to make two different projects? I think that Gaby points to something very practical (which condenses a lot of theory and studies). But at the same time we could generate another simultaneous project on the aspects ethical / moral and even religious / existentialist of this diet, to battle against veganism, wich is so functional to Monsanto. And maybe many here could participate in that other hypothetical project.

Just a note, I included this argument in the document. IMO, is one of the most important things about this diet. :)

 

[theos]

Despite the saying that A Calorie is NOT a Calorie there is still some truth to A Calorie is A Calorie.

If you reduce the amount of carbs ingested and keep your amount of protein in the 1g/kg body weight range (so as to not shunt unused amino-acids into glucose production), the amount of fat eaten will somewhat determine your weight. Eat little fat - loose weight. Eat more fat - keep weight, or put weight on, if everything else stays the same.

If your goal is to increase your weight, then my recommendation would be to increase your daily amount of fat, while keeping carbs low and protein intermediate.

That seems to be the summary. On the previous keto diet, Ark lost a lot of weight. He tends to eat very little anyway, and going keto, he ate almost nothing because he wasn't enchanted by just meat and fat. Now, with his daily fat bomb, he is perfectly happy to get all those extra calories he needs (but not carbs or protein-to-glucose) for energy enrobed in coconut cream, chocolate, strawberry and now coffee custard! So the skinnies really can put on a bit of weight or maintain, and the chunkies can cut back and nobody is hungry!

I seem to have chunked up a bit more since the fat bomb. I'm gonna cut down on the protein more.

 

[l apprenti de forgeron]

Just a note, I included this argument in the document. IMO, is one of the most important things about this diet. :)

Sorry for my misinterpretation. Obviously what you are doing is not just something medical (how that is commonly understood) but a much greater project. Thanks again for your creativity and efforts!!

 

[Carl]

I still haven't got past the sugar cravings yet - well chocolate in my case as I don't usually take sugar in anything.

I think of all the cravings I've had, eating store bought chocolate, even the high% cacao ones (organic/non-organic), are the worst on my system. It causes: disorientation, nauseousnous, lack of concentration, lack of strength, geez, a whole list! It took me some time to get over it, and now I'm avoiding it like the plague! :P Maybe it helps if you write down what you experience, and see whether the cons are worth it, and see if that helps with kicking the habit? Replacing it with homemade chocolate could help too! Also, taking magnesium could be a great help.

Hope this helps.

I can also attest to these effects, although they were not noticeable at first and built up over time. Store-bought chocolate recently became kind of a moderate addiction for me. It seems that sugar in any amount is really bad news, plus whatever else goes into those bars, including possibly gluten, or at least cross-reactive evils like milk.

The good news it that the "fat bomb" kills the carb cravings with some ruthless efficiency, whilst also providing the same hit of happy brain chemicals that one is craving when reaching for the sugar. If you need a little extra help, try L-glutamine sublingually, and of course more tobacco.

Also I have a question:
How long would one of these bombs last unrefrigerated? Of course there are egg yolks and coconut milk, but I had the idea that the extreme amount of saturated fat in the butter and coconut oil would provide some protection. If it lasts long enough in an airtight container then this would also make a great tavel food.

 

[nicklebleu]

Carlisle,

I don't think I could advocate to have the fat bomb unrefrigerated for more than a few hours, mainly because of the egg yolks. To extend this somewhat you could freeze a batch and let it slowly unfreeze, but this would likely extend it for some hours only.

Maybe we all should put our thinking caps on and try to figure out recipes or ways to keep fatty foods à la fat-bomb unrefrigerated. Will give this a think myself ...

 

[monotonic]

I have an idea. Homemade mayonnaise that is cultured with lactobacteria, like sauerkraut and pickles, has a much longer shelf life.

Back when we were dumping sticks of butter into huge stews for the whole family, we started using cultured butter and discovered that as the stew was sitting warm for a few hours, the lactobacteria in the cultured butter would change the taste of the stew.

So, how about making the fat bomb with cultured butter? The temperature would need be lower than 120F to keep the cultures alive, but the stew was often very hot when we added the butter so in that case the butter seemed to cool it down enough for the culture to get started. You could also add sauerkraut juice. If your vinegar is unpasteurized, you may get some strains from that as well.

 

[Arwenn]

<snip>

I still haven't got past the sugar cravings yet - well chocolate in my case as I don't usually take sugar in anything.

Hey happyliza, have you made the homemade chocolate yet? I too had both chocolate and sugar cravings. Sugar was mainly in my tea- it was really the chocolate I missed. Even the 70% cocoa chocolate had other undesirable ingredients. Stevia in my tea tastes lovely, so that sorted that out.

So I made the second batch of chocolate yesterday (it's just butter, cocoa and xylitol) & extremely delicious to boot :)

 

[l_autre_d]

I'm about due for a new EE CD. Suppose we put out a 5th Anniversary Edition (June 20 2009) of the EE Mediation CD along with this booklet ?

 

[Vic]

What would scare me is if this meat was factory farmed. I hope it wasn't.

Nope, it's organic grass-fed pork from a local farm and you can taste the difference! :)

That's good news :)

I just wish I could get back into eating bacon after being a vegetarian for many years prior to coming here. I'm good with chicken and fish but can't face other meats.

Thanks Eboard10.

 

[Ollie]

...
The document is a synthesis based on dozens of health books (both ones on the recommended books list and others), hundreds (if not thousands!) of scientific journals and articles, explanations and experiences from forum members, and the threads "Life Without Bread", "Ketogenic Diet - Path to Transformation?", "The Vegetarian Myth", and also a few others.

Hopefully, as you all post more, the documents will evolve into something (sooner rather than later) that can be put into book format by QFG and can serve as a guide for being ready for the upcoming black death. (See here and here for background on the black death, which is an Ebola-like virus.)
...
It can takes months, maybe less, maybe much more, we don't know. But I'm sure you all would like to see this forum's research readily available for those who are truly asking regardless of what happens. For me it is a little bit beyond ridiculous that famous authors are quoting and using this forum's experiences in their books. It is time we have our very own presentation.

I thank you for getting this going! Yes, it seems to be now or never! We need a short handbook that is better than everything else out there because all the others we have read include things that we have found to be bad for almost everybody. (Just because you can tolerate something, doesn't make it good for you; it can be causing silent damage!)

I'll volunteer to help put 'this' short handbook together - proofreading, etc.

 

[Eboard10]

What would scare me is if this meat was factory farmed. I hope it wasn't.

Nope, it's organic grass-fed pork from a local farm and you can taste the difference! :)

That's good news :)

I just wish I could get back into eating bacon after being a vegetarian for many years prior to coming here. I'm good with chicken and fish but can't face other meats.

Thanks Eboard10.

Paddyjohn, being averse to bacon after having been a vegetarian for several years is quite normal. Also, don't worry about trying to rush things; the transition needs to be gradual and can take several months. Heck, it took me at least 6 months to stop eating pastas and rice and even longer before I was able to say no to sweets (I just couldn't resist them). Equally as hard for me was eating bacon and fatty meat cuts which I couldn't have imagined doing just a couple of weeks prior to going on the diet. I would suggest to start by adding some bacon or other small pork cuts to your chicken and as you get used to the taste, gradually increase the fatty cuts and reduce the lean ones. Add a generous layer of butter to your meals if you tolerate it.

Gaby laid out a comprehensive plan on how to transition here:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26898.msg373596.html#msg373596

 

[happyliza]

Not everyone can get all the ingredients. I cannot get coconut cream, milk (too many additives and E numbers here and only 55% milk), plain gelatin, Xylitol and liquid stevia are a few. Sad as I think I would enjoy the coconut custard.

Have you tried ordering online? Like iherb.com?

It cost me over $20 just to get a very lightweight plastic container of D-Mannose over a month ago. So it cost the same as the tablets! Plus not many shipments actually arrive here so it is a double risk for me due to lack of funds unfortunately or I would get most things this way.

Snacks too - no easy ham or pork chorizos or salamis here and I find all my fats melt so whenever I take them with me in an emergency no matter what container or jar I put them in they leak all over the place in these temperatures.

In my case, chorizos and salamis cause a reaction, and mostly a headache, it's probably due to the spices and high protein. Perhaps if you can get the ingredients an get to make the fat bomb, you could have that as a snack? Or homemade fatty chocolate? Maybe bits of bacon with butter?

I will try these. Plus the new recipes. My latest is an avocado and high fat content pork mince I make to taste quite like sausage meat. Yummy. I will also try devilled eggs with bacon.

With regard to the jar, you might want to think about buying leak-proof thermo-jars, that will keep things from leaking and will also keep your food many hours cold or warm. Here's an example: _http://www.amazon.com/Thermos-Stainless-King-16-Ounce-Midnight/dp/B0017IFSIS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398533947&sr=8-1&keywords=thermos+king+jar

Thanks I will see if I can source any here.

I still haven't got past the sugar cravings yet - well chocolate in my case as I don't usually take sugar in anything.

I think of all the cravings I've had, eating store bought chocolate, even the high% cacao ones (organic/non-organic), are the worst on my system. It causes: disorientation, nauseousnous, lack of concentration, lack of strength, geez, a whole list! It took me some time to get over it, and now I'm avoiding it like the plague! :P Maybe it helps if you write down what you experience, and see whether the cons are worth it, and see if that helps with kicking the habit? Replacing it with homemade chocolate could help too! Also, taking magnesium could be a great help.

Thanks for the advice. I am looking forward to making the chocolate custard and any other choccy recipes we come up with! I do love the idea of Chu's birthday cake!

Hope this helps.

 

[happyliza]

<snip>

I still haven't got past the sugar cravings yet - well chocolate in my case as I don't usually take sugar in anything.

Hey happyliza, have you made the homemade chocolate yet? I too had both chocolate and sugar cravings. Sugar was mainly in my tea- it was really the chocolate I missed. Even the 70% cocoa chocolate had other undesirable ingredients. Stevia in my tea tastes lovely, so that sorted that out.

So I made the second batch of chocolate yesterday (it's just butter, cocoa and xylitol) & extremely delicious to boot :)

Thanks for this Arwenn. I saved the recipe a while ago as it mentioned the magic word! But I still have to find Xylitol on the island.

I was thinking of making a list of all my desired ingredients and marketing the idea to the shops/supermarkets here to see if they would stock them. I know they have to have a reasonable chance of a good turnover to warrant the shelf space and not many people think of doing Keto - anywhere. So I thought of suggesting that they could promote new lines on a strategically placed display unit as you walk into the shop. This way people will see new stuff in the store and it may increase the uptake for me/them.

I think it would be a good idea for us to have a 'shopping list' by this I mean a larder list for everyone starting on the diet. When I have more time I will go through the recipes and compile one and post it up here -I will then also use it for my supermarket promotions! Wothwhile for Gaby to insert this at the end of the book maybe?

 

[3DStudent]

I've always treated fat as a kind of sauce or topping since going keto. Meat is the base and it gets a healthy dollop of fat on top. Those who are eating too much fat might want to weigh their portions. When I get to around 70-80 grams of fat, I'm asking for indigestion or loose stools. ;)

For measuring and weighing butter, lard or similar fats, you can get measuring cups and measuring spoons. As for meat, raw or cooked, I usually cut and weigh protein and fat separately using a weighing scale, use a keto calculator or use a search toolbar to find estimated values. Maybe others can chime in with suggestions here.

Yeah, I try to be precise too. I use a digital scale. I'll usually measure out the meat separately, and make it a little more protein dense because I drain the fat off. Then I'll add in about twice the fat as the protein, which will make for at least 4:1 ratio in calories of fat to protein.

The formula when you shoot for a certain protein amount is: protein desired / (percentage protein as a decimal). So say you want 25 grams of protein for a meal. And your meat is 25% protein. Do 25 / .25 and you get 100 grams of protein. Or 23 grams of protein at .275 and you get 83.6 grams of meat. Then just add about 50 grams of fat and you're good to go. That should be ketogenic at 4:1 ratio; it may be 5:1 or closer to 6:1 depending on the fat percentage already in the meat.

The nutrition facts program is helpful for meat percentages, but is not complete.

I sometimes go to nutritiondata to get percentages. Just plug in 100 grams and look at the protein.

 

[Vic]

What would scare me is if this meat was factory farmed. I hope it wasn't.

Nope, it's organic grass-fed pork from a local farm and you can taste the difference! :)

That's good news :)

I just wish I could get back into eating bacon after being a vegetarian for many years prior to coming here. I'm good with chicken and fish but can't face other meats.

Thanks Eboard10.

Paddyjohn, being averse to bacon after having been a vegetarian for several years is quite normal. Also, don't worry about trying to rush things; the transition needs to be gradual and can take several months. Heck, it took me at least 6 months to stop eating pastas and rice and even longer before I was able to say no to sweets (I just couldn't resist them). Equally as hard for me was eating bacon and fatty meat cuts which I couldn't have imagined doing just a couple of weeks prior to going on the diet. I would suggest to start by adding some bacon or other small pork cuts to your chicken and as you get used to the taste, gradually increase the fatty cuts and reduce the lean ones. Add a generous layer of butter to your meals if you tolerate it.

Gaby laid out a comprehensive plan on how to transition here:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26898.msg373596.html#msg373596

Many thanks for your great advice, Eboard10. I have plenty of butter, and am now enjoying the chocolate as per Chu's recipe. I'm just about to make my first Fat Bomb as well. Your suggestion of 'adding some bacon or other small pork cuts to your chicken' is brilliant. Why didn't I think of that? ;)

Thanks again my friend.