Ketoadaptation - Consensus

[happyliza]

Thanks for the suggestions on how to measure what you are actually cooking and eating. Very helpful.

 

[Arwenn]

I've always treated fat as a kind of sauce or topping since going keto. Meat is the base and it gets a healthy dollop of fat on top. Those who are eating too much fat might want to weigh their portions. When I get to around 70-80 grams of fat, I'm asking for indigestion or loose stools. ;)

For measuring and weighing butter, lard or similar fats, you can get measuring cups and measuring spoons. As for meat, raw or cooked, I usually cut and weigh protein and fat separately using a weighing scale, use a keto calculator or use a search toolbar to find estimated values. Maybe others can chime in with suggestions here.

Yeah, I try to be precise too. I use a digital scale. I'll usually measure out the meat separately, and make it a little more protein dense because I drain the fat off. Then I'll add in about twice the fat as the protein, which will make for at least 4:1 ratio in calories of fat to protein.

The formula when you shoot for a certain protein amount is: protein desired / (percentage protein as a decimal). So say you want 25 grams of protein for a meal. And your meat is 25% protein. Do 25 / .25 and you get 100 grams of protein. Or 23 grams of protein at .275 and you get 83.6 grams of meat. Then just add about 50 grams of fat and you're good to go. That should be ketogenic at 4:1 ratio; it may be 5:1 or closer to 6:1 depending on the fat percentage already in the meat.

The nutrition facts program is helpful for meat percentages, but is not complete.

I sometimes go to nutritiondata to get percentages. Just plug in 100 grams and look at the protein.

Thanks for this post guys. It'll be handy to measure exactly what I am consuming. I'm waiting for my ketone meter to arrive, so as to tweak the diet and get the ketone levels where I'd like them to be.

 

[ashu]

Some magnesium or salted water will help.

Thank you for sharing! It seems that yeah, some do need help with the fat bomb, but that overall, it is a god send :)

Taking care of sluggish liver problems and helping digestion is very important for keto-adaptation. I hope you resolve your issues.

Let us know how it goes. :)

I am on Day 8 and I had to double my Magnesium intake. The dosis I am taking now would have sent me to the bathroom immediately two weeks ago, but now it keeps me regular. Maria Emmrich recommends using Magnesium and I guess one just needs more in the transition phase. So if you are taking Magnesium and it stopped working for you, it might be time to amp up the intake (cautiously).

M.T.

Thank you Gaby & Minas, I shall cautiously increase my magnesium as well as the salted water.

 

[Gaby]

So document is coming together, bigger than initially intended, but it has a lot of resources and some images too. The way to calculate your intake is tricky, but the good thing is that I'm so bad with numbers that if I can explain it so that I can understand it, then probably everybody else will understand as well. I'm inserting 3D student's explanation as a "testimonial" too. I think that once people calculate their intake and menus for a few days, they will get an instinct on how to do it naturally.

The discussions from the last few days that have developed organically have been most useful. :)

It will take more time, but it is coming together

 

[SeekinTruth]

The thing about indigestion/upset stomach is that people will get used to it over some time. Trying to keep daily calories above 75% fat is tricky for a while. I never got upset stomach, but would get loose stools occasionally. The sluggish liver protocol is the way to go for the first few months. What also helped is to break up the daily fat consumption - have a fatty snack or two during the day instead of getting all that fat in only two meals; that helped with the loose stools. You get the same amount of fat for the day, but at smaller amounts, more often. I ate just two meals a day for quite a while and the problem with eating too much fat at a time leading to loose stools was never fully resolved.

Some speculations I've thought about is also that if you don't eat enough fat but your daily carbs and protein intake are low enough (including each meal besides total daily), once you're fully adapted to burning fat, your body will just burn the stored fat to make up the shortfall in the diet. But that can cause problems for most people if they ate lots of toxic fats for years. The toxic fats will be "mobilized" to be burned and also other toxins stored in the fat can cause problems. Just some speculations....

@ Gaby: if you save the document as .doc Word file, more people will be able to read it than if it's saved as .docx.

 

[Gaby]

The thing about indigestion/upset stomach is that people will get used to it over some time. Trying to keep daily calories above 75% fat is tricky for a while. I never got upset stomach, but would get loose stools occasionally. The sluggish liver protocol is the way to go for the first few months. What also helped is to break up the daily fat consumption - have a fatty snack or two during the day instead of getting all that fat in only two meals; that helped with the loose stools. You get the same amount of fat for the day, but at smaller amounts, more often. I ate just two meals a day for quite a while and the problem with eating too much fat at a time leading to loose stools was never fully resolved.

Eating fat in "chapters" instead of one single gulp seems to be the safest. The other thing to keep in mind is that lots of fat relaxes your lower esophageal sphincter. So does chocolate. So if a recipe combines the two, and then you eat it in one gulp, plus, you go and lay down... the likelihood for tummy problems increases.

Some might tolerate large quantities of fat in one gulp just fine, but still eating it in parts throughout the day could be the most physiological thing.

@ Gaby: if you save the document as .doc Word file, more people will be able to read it than if it's saved as .docx.

Roger that. I'm working on word, but was planning to upload the whole thing in google documents. Although, I might change my mind. The headlines and sub-headlines need proper organization and google docs is not ideal for that. I might divide the whole thing in sections, chapters, etc. and leave it in .doc. Much easier to track down edits too.

 

[Arwenn]

Gaby,

I have just come across a really fabulous website that has a keto app for iPhone, iPad and kindle, replete with calculator , planner, recipes (the site has many free recipes with pictures, that look absolutely delectable), exercise+weight tracker & a blog.

I'm wondering if along with your document, this is something that we could also do? Do head over and check it out. So far, I'm impressed.
_http://ketodietapp.com/

 

[Gaby]

Gaby,

I have just come across a really fabulous website that has a keto app for iPhone, iPad and kindle, replete with calculator , planner, recipes (the site has many free recipes with pictures, that look absolutely delectable), exercise+weight tracker & a blog.

I'm wondering if along with your document, this is something that we could also do? Do head over and check it out. So far, I'm impressed.
_http://ketodietapp.com/

It is cool :) I've been following that site for a few days. Their keto-calculator is the one quoted because it is so user friendly.

I think that doing something among those lines is nice and I'm including some practical aspects. But the apps and everything else does require some technical/programming expertise. For example, it is a shame their calculator is based on the wrong numbers. People would have to adjust the formula accordingly, but it is still useful to get an idea of the fat intake. I took a snapshot of my results according to their calculator and am showing how I adjusted the numbers according to a right moderate restricted protein intake.

I think that despite the fanciness and tools of some websites, the information in this forum is still far more useful. ;D

 

[Arwenn]

My bad Gaby, I didn't see that theirs was the calculator you had referred to. Yeah, I guess compiling a well researched document is hard enough, without the technical aspects of an app, but I do like some of their ideas. I must say their step-by-step & end-result pictures of their recipes look fabulous. (I guess they need those pictures to look so good, in order to get people to buy the app. ;)

I'm gonna try a couple of their recipes and see how they fare.

 

[Gaby]

It's been awhile since I've been reading and editing the draft of the cassiopaea health research summary. At least all the upgrades are already incorporated. I started a new job and I'm still adapting to the new lifestyle. As I adapt to the new responsibilities, it has taken me longer than usual to finish this up. I feel I'm just stabilizing into this new phase. In the mean time, a couple of new books are worth reviewing: The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz and Keto-Clarity by Jimmy Moore. The first one is fascinating, the second one I haven't read, but I'm familiarized with Jimmy Moore's research. If someone has the opportunity, these books seem worth the energy.

I'll do my best to finalize the initial draft and post it here. I think realistically, it will take me at least two more weeks. Those who have the time and love to read about health topics can review it and give feedback. Then, I'll take holidays this summer to integrate people's feedback and the last two books mentioned above, at least make sure our research is up-to-date.

Hope that sounds like a good plan! :)

 

[Oxajil]

I'll do my best to finalize the initial draft and post it here. I think realistically, it will take me at least two more weeks. Those who have the time and love to read about health topics can review it and give feedback. Then, I'll take holidays this summer to integrate people's feedback and the last two books mentioned above, at least make sure our research is up-to-date.

Hope that sounds like a good plan! :)

It does! I'd love to read your draft and give feedback once it's done. :)

 

[Arwenn]

It's been awhile since I've been reading and editing the draft of the cassiopaea health research summary.
<snip>

Hope that sounds like a good plan! :)

That sounds great! I was only thinking about this thread and your compilation just yesterday. Thanks for the heads up on the other books- I will check them out. Wishing you all the very best for your new job!

 

[will01]

With regards to posting diet experiences, should they be posted in this thread or elsewhere? I have been preparing a post on my own experience with the diet and was going to post it in the "Ketogenic Diet" thread.

 

[Psalehesost]

With regards to posting diet experiences, should they be posted in this thread or elsewhere? I have been preparing a post on my own experience with the diet and was going to post it in the "Ketogenic Diet" thread.

The "Ketogenic Diet" thread is a good place to post it - it's still the main thread for discussing experiences. This thread is more about discussing the overall direction we're taking.

 

[will01]

With regards to posting diet experiences, should they be posted in this thread or elsewhere? I have been preparing a post on my own experience with the diet and was going to post it in the "Ketogenic Diet" thread.

The "Ketogenic Diet" thread is a good place to post it - it's still the main thread for discussing experiences. This thread is more about discussing the overall direction we're taking.

Thanks Psalehesost, will post it there when it's done.