Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions
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Gertrudes
Guest
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
3D Student you may be filling your pressure cooker two much. The guidelines for mine say to only fill it up two two thirds of its full capacity, and that is particularly relevant when cooking foods that cause foam, the bone broth being one of such examples. When doing bone broth I don't quite reach those two thirds. You also want to be careful with the foam coming out of the smoke outlet as it may clog it, and that can be dangerous while cooking.
I wouldn't be surprised if they fell out of ketosis. If they are given Xylitol, a carb, afer a fast, how are they supposed to maintain ketosis?
Also, a state resulting from a fast induced ketosis is less stable then a ketosis that has been a default state for quite sometime due to diet. Several members have reported how, after having been in ketosis for a couple of months, it is much easier to revert back to it when falling out of the wagon.
3D Student said:
3D Student you may be filling your pressure cooker two much. The guidelines for mine say to only fill it up two two thirds of its full capacity, and that is particularly relevant when cooking foods that cause foam, the bone broth being one of such examples. When doing bone broth I don't quite reach those two thirds. You also want to be careful with the foam coming out of the smoke outlet as it may clog it, and that can be dangerous while cooking.
Megan said:
I wouldn't be surprised if they fell out of ketosis. If they are given Xylitol, a carb, afer a fast, how are they supposed to maintain ketosis?
Also, a state resulting from a fast induced ketosis is less stable then a ketosis that has been a default state for quite sometime due to diet. Several members have reported how, after having been in ketosis for a couple of months, it is much easier to revert back to it when falling out of the wagon.
mcb
The Living Force
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
I didn't see where they were ever in ketosis. Of course it's really a question of ketone levels, but I would expect the levels produced by standard rat chow to be very low. In humans, I believe that "ordinary" carbivore ketone levels are on the order of 1/10th that of mildly keto-adapted individuals. The "good" range for humans runs about 0.5 - 5.0 mmol/L, and I believe some here have reported higher. My range is about 0.7 - 2.4. That's "in ketosis." 0.05 mmol/L is "out of ketosis," if I understand it.
To make sense of the cited research report, it seems like it would be necessary to go back and compare the amount of xylitol administered to the LD50 level for mice. I don't know if that is even possible with the information presented. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the author that cited the research paper was simply grabbing information and using it to make his point without understanding it, or noticing that the mice were being intentionally poisoned. It would not be surprising under those experimental conditions to see other liver functions shutting down!
Have you checked your "xylitol levels" today?
Gertrudes said:
I didn't see where they were ever in ketosis. Of course it's really a question of ketone levels, but I would expect the levels produced by standard rat chow to be very low. In humans, I believe that "ordinary" carbivore ketone levels are on the order of 1/10th that of mildly keto-adapted individuals. The "good" range for humans runs about 0.5 - 5.0 mmol/L, and I believe some here have reported higher. My range is about 0.7 - 2.4. That's "in ketosis." 0.05 mmol/L is "out of ketosis," if I understand it.
To make sense of the cited research report, it seems like it would be necessary to go back and compare the amount of xylitol administered to the LD50 level for mice. I don't know if that is even possible with the information presented. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the author that cited the research paper was simply grabbing information and using it to make his point without understanding it, or noticing that the mice were being intentionally poisoned. It would not be surprising under those experimental conditions to see other liver functions shutting down!
Have you checked your "xylitol levels" today?
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Yeah, and not only all that, but I'm always dubious about studies using mice/rats for getting any useful information about human ketosis (and other related metabolic info / lipid status, etc.). From all the data we have, humans evolved to be optimal pretty much in permanent nutritional ketosis.
So that combined with the problem of xylitol tolerance differences between humans and other mammals such as mice/rats, and everything else you brought up, really seems to make all these issues raised pretty much irrelevant.
Yeah, and not only all that, but I'm always dubious about studies using mice/rats for getting any useful information about human ketosis (and other related metabolic info / lipid status, etc.). From all the data we have, humans evolved to be optimal pretty much in permanent nutritional ketosis.
So that combined with the problem of xylitol tolerance differences between humans and other mammals such as mice/rats, and everything else you brought up, really seems to make all these issues raised pretty much irrelevant.
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Made my first batch of Bone Broth yesterday. trying out a new pressure cooker at the same time, both were succesful. I used pork bones and cooked them for 3 hours.
The initial taste was bland as I added only apple cider vinegar in the cooking, but I then added salt & pepper afterwards and a splach of balsamic vinegar to make it more palatable, it was quite nice.
Today I checked the contents after being fridged overnight and it had a very good gel quality, which was easy to bag up the excess for the freezer for later in the week. Very happy with the results so far :)
Made my first batch of Bone Broth yesterday. trying out a new pressure cooker at the same time, both were succesful. I used pork bones and cooked them for 3 hours.
The initial taste was bland as I added only apple cider vinegar in the cooking, but I then added salt & pepper afterwards and a splach of balsamic vinegar to make it more palatable, it was quite nice.
Today I checked the contents after being fridged overnight and it had a very good gel quality, which was easy to bag up the excess for the freezer for later in the week. Very happy with the results so far :)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Just want to add my experience over last few months. Since this is summary for the last 5 moths it is a bit lengthy so I apologize in advance.
I've started LC diet almost 2 years ago and for the last year I'm pretty sure I was 90% of time in ketosis. However, I didn't go for 0 carbs until opening of this thread although my carb intake was 30-40 grams tops before trying zero carb.
During this period I've experienced many symptoms more or less similar to what was reported here, ranging from lack of energy, leg fatigue, muscular cramping, etc.
Much of those symptoms subsided with increased salt and broth consumption.
My first attempt to go zero carb was in late September last year and just after 2-3 days I've got really bad case of diarrhea with serious abdominal pains and cramping which woke me up in the middle of the night and forced me to toilet for almost an hour. Next 3-4 weeks I couldn't stop diarrhea and got little panicked because I was losing weight so I did throw in some carbs mostly buckwheat crackers and some 90% chocolate which did stop loose stools. I didn't take more then 7-10 grams/day of carbs and after stabilizing digestion I was going back to try 0.
Unfortunately the results were almost the same, loose stools, bloated abdomen, lost of energy, lethargy, got easily irritated and then back to some carbs 90% chocolate, 1-2 buckwheat crackers. After few weeks I was pretty sure I'm chasing my on tail, so I've decided to kick out chocolate because symptoms were always the same, thou each time less severe. After almost 2 months I did manage to stabilize things. I did some exercise mostly with weights, some sprints, IFing not quite as recommended, but since I take my last meal between 17-18 hour or even earlyer, and my breakfast is at 7:30 I think this qualifies as IF.
What I've observed in this period is astonishing strengthening of the immune system. I was not sick for almost 2 years now and I was prone to 3-5 virosis/year prior. There is considerable raise in physical endurance, but not the physical strength. However it came with some side effects if I may call it so.
The raising of energy levels in my case is random and short lived. Most of the time I feel mediocre. From the day one of going towards 0carb my sleep pattern is very erratic with more problems with falling a sleep and waking in the middle of the night having trouble going back to sleep. Increased growth of gray hair, increased hair loss, more wrinkles, my skin although I'm prone to dry skin is very dry and now I'm having dandruff like flaky skin from lower legs till chest, lower abdomen is especial inflicted, baggy eyes in the morning (this is something I'm also prone to), increased earwax buildup, frequent dhieares with floating, faulty smelling stools.
All above made me do some blood work in order to find what's missing. So I've got results as follows:
Serum DHEA-s 8,2 µmol/L (Ref: 2,41-11,6 )
Potassium (10/18 2012) 4,2 mmol/L (Ref:3,9-5,1)
Potassium (12/12 2012) 4,2 mmol/L
Sodium (6/1 2012) 136 mmol/L (Ref:137-146)
Sodium (10/18 2012) 143
Sodium (12/12 2012) 141
Calcium (6/1 2012) 2,49 (Ref:2,14-2,53)
CRP 0,2 mg/L (Ref:<5)
Serum Cortisol (morning) 445,6 nmol/L (Ref:171-536)
Serum Cortisol (afternoon) 251,3 (Ref:64-340)
Zinc (Serum) 12,8 µmol/L (Ref:9,9-17,9)
25 hydoxyD3 (10/18 2012) 133,2 nmol/L= 53,28ng/l (optimal >50nmol/L)
Serum fT3 4,35 pmol/L (Ref:3,84-5,99)
Serum fT4 12,13 pmol/L (Ref:7,85-14,42)
So, labs are looking good, but that's not how I feel. I've recently got keto meter and I can only recomend this device for monitoring ketones. My average for the last 30 days are glucose=80, ketones=2,9 so I'm preatty shure that I'm in ketosis for at least last 5 months.
I've cut my supplementation to Digestive enzymes, potassium gluconate, omega 3, Mg taurate, Ascorbic acid.
However after experimenting with liposomal AA and liposomal SA after 10days or so I've reached bowel tolerance and perhaps I even over do it so last two weeks I'm in pretty bad shape. It could be due Soy lecithin, no meter how non GMO it was. I think I'll stick to plain AA for the time being.
I'm going to reintroduce melatonin, CQ10, d-ribose, mixed tocopheroles, Mg Orotate and see how I'm going to respond. I think lack of good sleep is the most crucial to restore mitohondria back on line and there was some improvement when along digestive enzymes I added Betaine HCl and actually dubbled hcl intake. This may be the clue, since I look malnourished. I think my digestion is still not effective without help and taking extra fat is taking toll on my, so it seems damaged fat metabolism, undigested fat leaking in my guts wreck havoc, perhaps influence sleep also.
My breakfast is half cup of bone broth with 1-2g of sodium, the best bacon I can find here pan frayed with added ghee butter till I feel satiated. For launch some broth, meats or fish/shrimps with occasional lettuce, dinner none or some broth, ham or bacon.
On top of this all although I'm also prone to poor peripheral blood circulation I've experienced, from this season very pronounced symptoms closest to Raynaud's syndrome. When exposed to coldness, that is bellow 3-4 degrees Celsius and this is more pronounced after lousy sleep my fingers and toes completely loose blood flow and turn white and numb. Especially on my right hand and foot. It's not happining when I'm doing physical work outdoors even on sub 0C temps, but when I'm just walking or standing still, my fingers loose blood, completely. Doing FIR sauna is helpful but only short time. I did look over to Jack Kruse's forum and found out that there is number of other people reporting the same after exposing to cold thru cold immersions or showers. I did stop cold showers after weather got colder, but still doing face dunks, it refreshes me and help me clear the head. However this is very unpleasant and I'm thinking that it may be some problem along HPA axis but no idea how to fix it.
Suggestions are very welcomed!
Just want to add my experience over last few months. Since this is summary for the last 5 moths it is a bit lengthy so I apologize in advance.
I've started LC diet almost 2 years ago and for the last year I'm pretty sure I was 90% of time in ketosis. However, I didn't go for 0 carbs until opening of this thread although my carb intake was 30-40 grams tops before trying zero carb.
During this period I've experienced many symptoms more or less similar to what was reported here, ranging from lack of energy, leg fatigue, muscular cramping, etc.
Much of those symptoms subsided with increased salt and broth consumption.
My first attempt to go zero carb was in late September last year and just after 2-3 days I've got really bad case of diarrhea with serious abdominal pains and cramping which woke me up in the middle of the night and forced me to toilet for almost an hour. Next 3-4 weeks I couldn't stop diarrhea and got little panicked because I was losing weight so I did throw in some carbs mostly buckwheat crackers and some 90% chocolate which did stop loose stools. I didn't take more then 7-10 grams/day of carbs and after stabilizing digestion I was going back to try 0.
Unfortunately the results were almost the same, loose stools, bloated abdomen, lost of energy, lethargy, got easily irritated and then back to some carbs 90% chocolate, 1-2 buckwheat crackers. After few weeks I was pretty sure I'm chasing my on tail, so I've decided to kick out chocolate because symptoms were always the same, thou each time less severe. After almost 2 months I did manage to stabilize things. I did some exercise mostly with weights, some sprints, IFing not quite as recommended, but since I take my last meal between 17-18 hour or even earlyer, and my breakfast is at 7:30 I think this qualifies as IF.
What I've observed in this period is astonishing strengthening of the immune system. I was not sick for almost 2 years now and I was prone to 3-5 virosis/year prior. There is considerable raise in physical endurance, but not the physical strength. However it came with some side effects if I may call it so.
The raising of energy levels in my case is random and short lived. Most of the time I feel mediocre. From the day one of going towards 0carb my sleep pattern is very erratic with more problems with falling a sleep and waking in the middle of the night having trouble going back to sleep. Increased growth of gray hair, increased hair loss, more wrinkles, my skin although I'm prone to dry skin is very dry and now I'm having dandruff like flaky skin from lower legs till chest, lower abdomen is especial inflicted, baggy eyes in the morning (this is something I'm also prone to), increased earwax buildup, frequent dhieares with floating, faulty smelling stools.
All above made me do some blood work in order to find what's missing. So I've got results as follows:
Serum DHEA-s 8,2 µmol/L (Ref: 2,41-11,6 )
Potassium (10/18 2012) 4,2 mmol/L (Ref:3,9-5,1)
Potassium (12/12 2012) 4,2 mmol/L
Sodium (6/1 2012) 136 mmol/L (Ref:137-146)
Sodium (10/18 2012) 143
Sodium (12/12 2012) 141
Calcium (6/1 2012) 2,49 (Ref:2,14-2,53)
CRP 0,2 mg/L (Ref:<5)
Serum Cortisol (morning) 445,6 nmol/L (Ref:171-536)
Serum Cortisol (afternoon) 251,3 (Ref:64-340)
Zinc (Serum) 12,8 µmol/L (Ref:9,9-17,9)
25 hydoxyD3 (10/18 2012) 133,2 nmol/L= 53,28ng/l (optimal >50nmol/L)
Serum fT3 4,35 pmol/L (Ref:3,84-5,99)
Serum fT4 12,13 pmol/L (Ref:7,85-14,42)
So, labs are looking good, but that's not how I feel. I've recently got keto meter and I can only recomend this device for monitoring ketones. My average for the last 30 days are glucose=80, ketones=2,9 so I'm preatty shure that I'm in ketosis for at least last 5 months.
I've cut my supplementation to Digestive enzymes, potassium gluconate, omega 3, Mg taurate, Ascorbic acid.
However after experimenting with liposomal AA and liposomal SA after 10days or so I've reached bowel tolerance and perhaps I even over do it so last two weeks I'm in pretty bad shape. It could be due Soy lecithin, no meter how non GMO it was. I think I'll stick to plain AA for the time being.
I'm going to reintroduce melatonin, CQ10, d-ribose, mixed tocopheroles, Mg Orotate and see how I'm going to respond. I think lack of good sleep is the most crucial to restore mitohondria back on line and there was some improvement when along digestive enzymes I added Betaine HCl and actually dubbled hcl intake. This may be the clue, since I look malnourished. I think my digestion is still not effective without help and taking extra fat is taking toll on my, so it seems damaged fat metabolism, undigested fat leaking in my guts wreck havoc, perhaps influence sleep also.
My breakfast is half cup of bone broth with 1-2g of sodium, the best bacon I can find here pan frayed with added ghee butter till I feel satiated. For launch some broth, meats or fish/shrimps with occasional lettuce, dinner none or some broth, ham or bacon.
On top of this all although I'm also prone to poor peripheral blood circulation I've experienced, from this season very pronounced symptoms closest to Raynaud's syndrome. When exposed to coldness, that is bellow 3-4 degrees Celsius and this is more pronounced after lousy sleep my fingers and toes completely loose blood flow and turn white and numb. Especially on my right hand and foot. It's not happining when I'm doing physical work outdoors even on sub 0C temps, but when I'm just walking or standing still, my fingers loose blood, completely. Doing FIR sauna is helpful but only short time. I did look over to Jack Kruse's forum and found out that there is number of other people reporting the same after exposing to cold thru cold immersions or showers. I did stop cold showers after weather got colder, but still doing face dunks, it refreshes me and help me clear the head. However this is very unpleasant and I'm thinking that it may be some problem along HPA axis but no idea how to fix it.
Suggestions are very welcomed!
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
This is a “what you see is what you get” protein counter. The fork or the plate is used as a visual reference. Dish plates are 25 cm long (9.84 inches). Content of protein is indicated for each total weight amount. Carbs are indicated when applicable.
Rasher (30 grams) – 14 grams of protein
Pork rinds (30 g) – 22.4 grams of protein and 0.2 grams of carbs.
Sausage (20 grams) – 4.2 grams of protein
Paté (30 grams) – 3.2 grams of protein and 0.7 grams of carbs
Serrano ham (46 grams, 2 units) – 13.2 grams of protein and 0.2 grams of carbs.
Tuna (40 grams) – 11 grams of protein.
Sausage 80 grams – 14.8 grams of protein
Sardines 100g – 10.6 grams of protein
White fish (150 g) – 27.4 grams of protein
Veal stew (150 grams) – 28.8 grams
Pork tenderloin (150 grams) – 19.6 grams of protein
Burger 80g – 12.4 grams of protein.
Salmon (150 grams) – 30 grams of protein.
Roasted lamb (500 grams) – 18 grams of protein
Anchovy (16 g) – 4.4 grams of protein.
Beef (150 grams) – 25 grams of protein
Mushrooms (50 grams) – 1.7 g of protein, 0.5 g of carbs
Green salad (150 grams) – 5 grams of carbs
[this is just way too much IMO]
Green beans (200 grams) – 10 grams of carbs [and about 6 grams of protein. It is also way too much IMO]
Sauerkraut (140 grams or 1 cup) – 3 grams of net carbs and 1 gram of protein
Olives (50 grams) – 0.025 grams of carbs
A 3-ounce piece of meat has approximately 21 grams of protein. The protein content in grams based on a 3-ounce serving is as follows [from PBPM]:
Egg (medium): 6g
Bacon, 1 slice: 3 g
Canadian-style bacon (back bacon), slice : 5 g
Fish: 21 g
Roast beef: 28 g
Roast chicken: 25 g
Other meats (average): 25 g
Sausage: 12 g
Ham: 18 g
Beef burger: 20 g
Corned beef: 26 g
Liver: 23 g
Sirloin steak: 24 g
Turkey: 25 g
Shrimp: 18-21 g
Cod: 19 g
Tuna: 22 g
Ground beef (regular): 23 g
Ground beef (lean): 24 g
Spareribs (lean): 22 g
Chicken breast: 25 g
Lobster: 17 g
Salmon: 22 g
Duck (roasted): 24 g
Lamb: 24 g
Protein content in 100 grams (3.5 oz) of:
Rabbit 23 g
Veal 20.7 g
Liver 20.5 g
Serrano ham 30.5 g
Cooked ham 18.4 g
Chicken slices 21.8 g
Turkey without bone and skin 21.9 g
Clam 10.7 g
Squid 17 g
Octopus 10.6 g
Shrimps 20.1 g
Anchovies 17.6 g
Tuna (Bonito) 21
Sole 16.5 g
Trout 15.7 g
Sardines 18.1 g
Horse meat 20 g
Veal 20 g
Organs 20 g
Pork 20 g
Lamb 20 g
10 grams of protein in:
75 grams of white fish
115 grams of oysters
75 grams of blue fish
40 grams of sausage
40 grams of bacon
70 grams of paté
80 grams of foie gras
Source for the rest of the protein and carb counters are several manuals for diabetics type 1.
This is a “what you see is what you get” protein counter. The fork or the plate is used as a visual reference. Dish plates are 25 cm long (9.84 inches). Content of protein is indicated for each total weight amount. Carbs are indicated when applicable.
Rasher (30 grams) – 14 grams of protein
Pork rinds (30 g) – 22.4 grams of protein and 0.2 grams of carbs.
Sausage (20 grams) – 4.2 grams of protein
Paté (30 grams) – 3.2 grams of protein and 0.7 grams of carbs
Serrano ham (46 grams, 2 units) – 13.2 grams of protein and 0.2 grams of carbs.
Tuna (40 grams) – 11 grams of protein.
Sausage 80 grams – 14.8 grams of protein
Sardines 100g – 10.6 grams of protein
White fish (150 g) – 27.4 grams of protein
Veal stew (150 grams) – 28.8 grams
Pork tenderloin (150 grams) – 19.6 grams of protein
Burger 80g – 12.4 grams of protein.
Salmon (150 grams) – 30 grams of protein.
Roasted lamb (500 grams) – 18 grams of protein
Anchovy (16 g) – 4.4 grams of protein.
Beef (150 grams) – 25 grams of protein
Mushrooms (50 grams) – 1.7 g of protein, 0.5 g of carbs
Green salad (150 grams) – 5 grams of carbs
[this is just way too much IMO]
Green beans (200 grams) – 10 grams of carbs [and about 6 grams of protein. It is also way too much IMO]
Sauerkraut (140 grams or 1 cup) – 3 grams of net carbs and 1 gram of protein
Olives (50 grams) – 0.025 grams of carbs
A 3-ounce piece of meat has approximately 21 grams of protein. The protein content in grams based on a 3-ounce serving is as follows [from PBPM]:
Egg (medium): 6g
Bacon, 1 slice: 3 g
Canadian-style bacon (back bacon), slice : 5 g
Fish: 21 g
Roast beef: 28 g
Roast chicken: 25 g
Other meats (average): 25 g
Sausage: 12 g
Ham: 18 g
Beef burger: 20 g
Corned beef: 26 g
Liver: 23 g
Sirloin steak: 24 g
Turkey: 25 g
Shrimp: 18-21 g
Cod: 19 g
Tuna: 22 g
Ground beef (regular): 23 g
Ground beef (lean): 24 g
Spareribs (lean): 22 g
Chicken breast: 25 g
Lobster: 17 g
Salmon: 22 g
Duck (roasted): 24 g
Lamb: 24 g
Protein content in 100 grams (3.5 oz) of:
Rabbit 23 g
Veal 20.7 g
Liver 20.5 g
Serrano ham 30.5 g
Cooked ham 18.4 g
Chicken slices 21.8 g
Turkey without bone and skin 21.9 g
Clam 10.7 g
Squid 17 g
Octopus 10.6 g
Shrimps 20.1 g
Anchovies 17.6 g
Tuna (Bonito) 21
Sole 16.5 g
Trout 15.7 g
Sardines 18.1 g
Horse meat 20 g
Veal 20 g
Organs 20 g
Pork 20 g
Lamb 20 g
10 grams of protein in:
75 grams of white fish
115 grams of oysters
75 grams of blue fish
40 grams of sausage
40 grams of bacon
70 grams of paté
80 grams of foie gras
Source for the rest of the protein and carb counters are several manuals for diabetics type 1.
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Regulattor, I found kelp supplements (iodine) helped me sleep well whereas melatonin only worked in a narrow time window (I now have potassium iodide drops which don't seem to work as well). Furthermore, I found homemade sauerkraut seemed to jumpstart my sleep and fatigue signals. So you may consider these things where sleep quality is concerned, FWIW.
Regulattor, I found kelp supplements (iodine) helped me sleep well whereas melatonin only worked in a narrow time window (I now have potassium iodide drops which don't seem to work as well). Furthermore, I found homemade sauerkraut seemed to jumpstart my sleep and fatigue signals. So you may consider these things where sleep quality is concerned, FWIW.
Steve M.
Jedi Master
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Hi All,
I'm concerned with using the Microwave and the concern keeps coming up. I've used the search function to see if I've missed anything. In the importance of Bone Broth thread (which I'm gonna start on now while trying to keep up with this thread) I dfound a reference to using the Microwave:
Lauea wrote:
But I recall another statement where it was implied not to use the Microwave within this thread, unless I misunderstood. Can someone please point me to the data?
This is a video link that implied "Don't use a microwave on your broth" and why. It's about 29 minutes.
http://youtu.be/tdCdoppDPRY
I'm personally still having problems with (previously made) watery broth that doesn't gel. I'm nearly convinced at this point that I have too much water.. testing that theory now by simmering it down for a few hours (with some bones in it) tonight and will not add water and try refrigerating it in the morning.
Hi All,
I'm concerned with using the Microwave and the concern keeps coming up. I've used the search function to see if I've missed anything. In the importance of Bone Broth thread (which I'm gonna start on now while trying to keep up with this thread) I dfound a reference to using the Microwave:
Lauea wrote:
But I recall another statement where it was implied not to use the Microwave within this thread, unless I misunderstood. Can someone please point me to the data?
This is a video link that implied "Don't use a microwave on your broth" and why. It's about 29 minutes.
http://youtu.be/tdCdoppDPRY
I'm personally still having problems with (previously made) watery broth that doesn't gel. I'm nearly convinced at this point that I have too much water.. testing that theory now by simmering it down for a few hours (with some bones in it) tonight and will not add water and try refrigerating it in the morning.
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
I don't get sound on youtube, but I know there is a scientific paper out that shows chemical changes in bone broth as a result of microwaving.
http://paleohacks.com/questions/66890/bad-to-heat-broth-in-the-microwave
https://ixquick.com/do/search?query=microwaving+bone+broth&cat=web&pl=chrome&language=english
It seems microwaving has specific effects on specific chemicals; beyond this it behaves just like any normal cooking method aside from heat distribution. Perhaps there could be more subtle effects such as destroying DNA and and other epigenetic factors on the atomic level?
I don't get sound on youtube, but I know there is a scientific paper out that shows chemical changes in bone broth as a result of microwaving.
http://paleohacks.com/questions/66890/bad-to-heat-broth-in-the-microwave
https://ixquick.com/do/search?query=microwaving+bone+broth&cat=web&pl=chrome&language=english
It seems microwaving has specific effects on specific chemicals; beyond this it behaves just like any normal cooking method aside from heat distribution. Perhaps there could be more subtle effects such as destroying DNA and and other epigenetic factors on the atomic level?
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
You may be using too much water or not letting it cook long enough. My broth seems to gel better when I use less, just barely covering the bones in the crockpot.
As for microwaving, I don't nuke broth, put it in a pan on a burner on the stove at home, or I have a little mug-warmer hot place type thingy at work to keep a mug of coffee/tea warm, so I put my cold broth in a cup on the warmer and let it slowly heat up throughout the morning. Takes a while that way though.
I do use the microwave in the kitchen at work though, unless I'd want to eat a cold lunch every day. :D
Balberon said:
You may be using too much water or not letting it cook long enough. My broth seems to gel better when I use less, just barely covering the bones in the crockpot.
As for microwaving, I don't nuke broth, put it in a pan on a burner on the stove at home, or I have a little mug-warmer hot place type thingy at work to keep a mug of coffee/tea warm, so I put my cold broth in a cup on the warmer and let it slowly heat up throughout the morning. Takes a while that way though.
I do use the microwave in the kitchen at work though, unless I'd want to eat a cold lunch every day. :D
mcb
The Living Force
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
I think we've kind of been all over the place with microwaving in the past, but the most recent discussion I remember left it, basically, at "cooking" is what causes most of the changes to the food. "Microwaving" is a way of cooking, that might have a few peculiarities of its own, but most of the changes are going to happen either way. Fortunately, humans are adapted to eating cooked food, and we tend to make up for what is lost in cooking if the food isn't overcooked.
I think we've kind of been all over the place with microwaving in the past, but the most recent discussion I remember left it, basically, at "cooking" is what causes most of the changes to the food. "Microwaving" is a way of cooking, that might have a few peculiarities of its own, but most of the changes are going to happen either way. Fortunately, humans are adapted to eating cooked food, and we tend to make up for what is lost in cooking if the food isn't overcooked.
iagainsti
The Force is Strong With This One
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Hi all,
First off, I'm grateful for everyone's effort behind what's being done here and how it's done, and I could go on...
. I'd like to share a short recap of my journey.
I've been following dieting guidelines here more or less closely, since going gluten free 3 years ago, and I'm a meat lover by default, so going Paleo was warmly welcomed. Been practicing it for about a year, upping fats, and lowering carbs from 70 > 50, and then switched to 20-30g last may. Yupp, a crappy month of fatigue and related, ensued. Enzymes, milk thistle, AC Vinegar salads helped in upping fat tolerance. When that settled I felt quite fine, except for physical energy reserves, also something that seems to be common. Also, there was considerable weight loss. I went from 95 (pre-gluten free) to 75 kg - made me look somewhat skinny in combo with 1,87m in height (apart from swimming tube belly which didn't fully deflate, even to this day
).
While following this thread I've learned the importance of ratios, protein restriction, exercise, and her holiness the bone broth, amongst other. It was last October that I decided to upgrade to this approach. Switch from previous LC mode was like a light turbulence, a week or so of bowel movement issues, some muscle cramping, palpitations, especially at bedtime. I supplemented with Sodium, Potassium and Magnesium citrate, omega 3. Also, ramped up exercise from occasional to 2x weekly bodyweight and weights for 40 min. At the beginning there was considerable struggle, but it got better, managed to put on 5 kg muscle, so now I'm on the 80 kg body weight. Strength gain goes slowly but measurable, energy/stamina gain is more obvious, and there's enhanced mental clarity also, all in all, definite upgrade! I'm 33 y.o. male, and feel, like 20 yrs younger :D (sans most the teen issues :P)
However, 2 months into the experiment I had a pretty nasty experience; woke up with severe vertigo, headache, fatigue, vomiting impulse. I barely managed to walk straight. Luckily I quit taking potassium only 2 nights before, intuitively, as it turned out in blood test few hours later, my Potassium level was 5,9 mmol. I was only taking 1x 99 mg K-citrate pill, before bedtime, balancing it with salt, through the day. I am still not sure what caused that imbalance (Hyperkalemia)?, supplemented Potassium itself being main suspect. It did settle down a week later to 4,2 mmol. There was no blood ketone measuring available at the lab, so I can't provide those. All other test values are a testament to KD's optimal-ness (as far as I can tell).
To wrap it; I'm following 0,8g/kg protein, with min. 3:1, most often 4:1 F/P ratio. My primary choice of meat is pork; bacon, jowl!, neck cuts, various sorts of sausages. Usually I eat 2 daily meals, eggs+meats breakfast, meats+kraut/turnips/salad/pickles (sometimes), around 30g protein per meal, 2 cups of creamy bone broth, and a snack on some kind of cured meat, if called for, and also enjoy few cups of buttered tea through the day.
So much for now, it's very-late-lunch/dinner time!
Hi all,
First off, I'm grateful for everyone's effort behind what's being done here and how it's done, and I could go on...
. I'd like to share a short recap of my journey.I've been following dieting guidelines here more or less closely, since going gluten free 3 years ago, and I'm a meat lover by default, so going Paleo was warmly welcomed. Been practicing it for about a year, upping fats, and lowering carbs from 70 > 50, and then switched to 20-30g last may. Yupp, a crappy month of fatigue and related, ensued. Enzymes, milk thistle, AC Vinegar salads helped in upping fat tolerance. When that settled I felt quite fine, except for physical energy reserves, also something that seems to be common. Also, there was considerable weight loss. I went from 95 (pre-gluten free) to 75 kg - made me look somewhat skinny in combo with 1,87m in height (apart from swimming tube belly which didn't fully deflate, even to this day
).While following this thread I've learned the importance of ratios, protein restriction, exercise, and her holiness the bone broth, amongst other. It was last October that I decided to upgrade to this approach. Switch from previous LC mode was like a light turbulence, a week or so of bowel movement issues, some muscle cramping, palpitations, especially at bedtime. I supplemented with Sodium, Potassium and Magnesium citrate, omega 3. Also, ramped up exercise from occasional to 2x weekly bodyweight and weights for 40 min. At the beginning there was considerable struggle, but it got better, managed to put on 5 kg muscle, so now I'm on the 80 kg body weight. Strength gain goes slowly but measurable, energy/stamina gain is more obvious, and there's enhanced mental clarity also, all in all, definite upgrade! I'm 33 y.o. male, and feel, like 20 yrs younger :D (sans most the teen issues :P)
However, 2 months into the experiment I had a pretty nasty experience; woke up with severe vertigo, headache, fatigue, vomiting impulse. I barely managed to walk straight. Luckily I quit taking potassium only 2 nights before, intuitively, as it turned out in blood test few hours later, my Potassium level was 5,9 mmol. I was only taking 1x 99 mg K-citrate pill, before bedtime, balancing it with salt, through the day. I am still not sure what caused that imbalance (Hyperkalemia)?, supplemented Potassium itself being main suspect. It did settle down a week later to 4,2 mmol. There was no blood ketone measuring available at the lab, so I can't provide those. All other test values are a testament to KD's optimal-ness (as far as I can tell).
To wrap it; I'm following 0,8g/kg protein, with min. 3:1, most often 4:1 F/P ratio. My primary choice of meat is pork; bacon, jowl!, neck cuts, various sorts of sausages. Usually I eat 2 daily meals, eggs+meats breakfast, meats+kraut/turnips/salad/pickles (sometimes), around 30g protein per meal, 2 cups of creamy bone broth, and a snack on some kind of cured meat, if called for, and also enjoy few cups of buttered tea through the day.
So much for now, it's very-late-lunch/dinner time!
Medulin
Jedi
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
I posted this in ''Evidence of alien abduction'' topic, but since it's not a very popular part of the forum, I'm going to put it here as well.
Our brain/mind is susceptible to 4D STS influences during the REM phase of our sleep.
Both melatonin and ketogenic diet* promote NREM phase (also known as delta-sleep or deep dreamless sleep).
According to Vedanta (Indian philosophy), deep dreamless sleep is the best state to search consciousness.
I know it's a bit of a paradox (deep dreamless sleep ~ consciousness),
but in this stage it is our brain cortex what is active (and emits delta-brainwaves).
During REM sleep, the part of brain called ''reptilian complex'' is active.
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain
----------------
*A research article:
_http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/maney/nns/2008/00000011/00000004/art00001
I posted this in ''Evidence of alien abduction'' topic, but since it's not a very popular part of the forum, I'm going to put it here as well.
Our brain/mind is susceptible to 4D STS influences during the REM phase of our sleep.
Both melatonin and ketogenic diet* promote NREM phase (also known as delta-sleep or deep dreamless sleep).
According to Vedanta (Indian philosophy), deep dreamless sleep is the best state to search consciousness.
I know it's a bit of a paradox (deep dreamless sleep ~ consciousness),
but in this stage it is our brain cortex what is active (and emits delta-brainwaves).
During REM sleep, the part of brain called ''reptilian complex'' is active.
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain
----------------
*A research article:
_http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/maney/nns/2008/00000011/00000004/art00001
