Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Another question. The 25g limit for protein per meal that translates to 3.5oz of meat. Should the meat be cooked before or after the measurement?

The 3 oz measurement refers to cooked meat.

 

[herondancer]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It would seem to me that though you will have changes in moisture and fat content due to cooking, the level of protein should stay the same. Or perhaps there is some breakdown due to heating? Even if that's the case, it might be the most accurate to weigh the piece before cooking it.

According to an article on the LiveStrong site it doesn't change

Meats

Cooking doesn't affect the protein content in ground beef. The University of Wisconsin Extension says pan-frying or -broiling meat patties left the protein in the meat intact, but did provide a healthy benefit for high-fat meats. Cooking reduced the amount of fat in the meat by almost half, a significant benefit for those trying to lose weight or watch cholesterol intake. Lean meat lost a very small amount of fat during cooking, but both high-fat and lean meats kept all of their protein and iron.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/519632-does-cooking-food-affect-protein-content/#ixzz2PSYDNpi5

Just remember to pour all that fat over your burger! :D

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It would seem to me that though you will have changes in moisture and fat content due to cooking, the level of protein should stay the same. Or perhaps there is some breakdown due to heating? Even if that's the case, it might be the most accurate to weigh the piece before cooking it.

According to an article on the LiveStrong site it doesn't change

Meats

Cooking doesn't affect the protein content in ground beef. The University of Wisconsin Extension says pan-frying or -broiling meat patties left the protein in the meat intact, but did provide a healthy benefit for high-fat meats. Cooking reduced the amount of fat in the meat by almost half, a significant benefit for those trying to lose weight or watch cholesterol intake. Lean meat lost a very small amount of fat during cooking, but both high-fat and lean meats kept all of their protein and iron.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/519632-does-cooking-food-affect-protein-content/#ixzz2PSYDNpi5

Just remember to pour all that fat over your burger! :D

True, but you'd need to know the appropriate weight for raw meat due to the difference in water and fat content if you're going to weigh before cooking. 25g of protein is about 3oz of cooked meat, but I've never seen how much it would be for raw meat.

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Any thoughts? What's the longest you've left out your broth? Thanks.

I do very large batches, filter it into bottles and let them stand overnight to cool covered with paper towel. Then I freeze them and thaw as used. Works great everytime. :)

So you don't have much to worry about unless you let them sit in the fridge too long.

That seems smart. I make about 5 L of broth a batch and just keep it refrigerated. If I don't eat it fast enough it tends to spoil. How do you thaw the bottles for hot soup in the morning?

Another question. The 25g limit for protein per meal that translates to 3.5oz of meat. Should the meat be cooked before or after the measurement?

If you freeze the jars of stock, be sure to leave some space at the top so the jars do not break (during freezing) - and they should cool to at least room temp before you put them in the freezer. You can take a jar or two from the freezer and thaw it slowly in the fridge. If it needs more thawing prior to consumption, just put it on the counter. I use a cheap toaster/oven to heat it slowly before drinking. The taste is always fresh this way.

 

[whitecoast]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It would seem to me that though you will have changes in moisture and fat content due to cooking, the level of protein should stay the same. Or perhaps there is some breakdown due to heating? Even if that's the case, it might be the most accurate to weigh the piece before cooking it.

According to an article on the LiveStrong site it doesn't change

Meats

Cooking doesn't affect the protein content in ground beef. The University of Wisconsin Extension says pan-frying or -broiling meat patties left the protein in the meat intact, but did provide a healthy benefit for high-fat meats. Cooking reduced the amount of fat in the meat by almost half, a significant benefit for those trying to lose weight or watch cholesterol intake. Lean meat lost a very small amount of fat during cooking, but both high-fat and lean meats kept all of their protein and iron.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/519632-does-cooking-food-affect-protein-content/#ixzz2PSYDNpi5

Just remember to pour all that fat over your burger! :D

True, but you'd need to know the appropriate weight for raw meat due to the difference in water and fat content if you're going to weigh before cooking. 25g of protein is about 3oz of cooked meat, but I've never seen how much it would be for raw meat.

Thanks dugdeep and herondancer and LQB :D I only ask because it seems strange they'd calculate the 7g of protein per oz of meat as cooked, since that's much more variable in terms of execution than just having it raw (rare, well-done, etc.) You remind me I have never made home-made burgers before since going paleo.... I really ought to try it out. Maybe I will the next time I have cave-guests

[quote author=LQB]If you freeze the jars of stock, be sure to leave some space at the top so the jars do not break (during freezing) - and they should cool to at least room temp before you put them in the freezer. You can take a jar or two from the freezer and thaw it slowly in the fridge. If it needs more thawing prior to consumption, just put it on the counter. I use a cheap toaster/oven to heat it slowly before drinking. The taste is always fresh this way.[/quote]

Ten-four! I always thought since water freezes downwards most freezer things would shatter, but I guess not, huh.

 

[herondancer]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

True, but you'd need to know the appropriate weight for raw meat due to the difference in water and fat content if you're going to weigh before cooking. 25g of protein is about 3oz of cooked meat, but I've never seen how much it would be for raw meat.

Ah, that makes sense. Water weighs a lot, and some fat will be lost in the heating process.

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

[quote author=LQB]If you freeze the jars of stock, be sure to leave some space at the top so the jars do not break (during freezing) - and they should cool to at least room temp before you put them in the freezer. You can take a jar or two from the freezer and thaw it slowly in the fridge. If it needs more thawing prior to consumption, just put it on the counter. I use a cheap toaster/oven to heat it slowly before drinking. The taste is always fresh this way.

Ten-four! I always thought since water freezes downwards most freezer things would shatter, but I guess not, huh.
[/quote]

The bottom or side will crack if you don't leave some room below where the jar begins to narrow at the top. I've probably lost 3 out of 100 from filling just a bit too much.

 

[3DStudent]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Any thoughts? What's the longest you've left out your broth? Thanks.

I do very large batches, filter it into bottles and let them stand overnight to cool covered with paper towel. Then I freeze them and thaw as used. Works great everytime. :)

So you don't have much to worry about unless you let them sit in the fridge too long.

Thanks for the advice :). I only make enough for a week. I've let it go in the fridge for a week and a half. I think they'd be fine for even two weeks in the fridge. I too separate the meat and marrow from the broth, so there is little actual meat in the broth.

Regarding the cooked vs raw percent of protein in meat: I've always done my calculations for cooked meat, since it is cooked meat that I measure when I get some out for a meal. The Nutrition Facts program I use shows different values for raw and cooked meat protein content. And it's quite a difference.

For instance:

Ground Pork 28% fat 72% lean raw: 14.87g protein per 100g
Ground Pork 28% fat 72% lean pan broiled: 22.59g protein per 100g

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?


Since the discovery - quite by accident - of the iron/ferritin thing and the subsequent research, we resumed doing our heavy metal chelation with DMSA. I've also purchased some EDTA but am waiting for the book before using it. It seems that both DMSA and EDTA chelate SOME iron. Anyway, curiously, after doing two more 3 day (out of 7) chelations, I noticed that some really naggy problems started clearing up.

1) I stopped being so slow bowel-wise.
2) My weight started moving again even though I'm having about 50 carbs per day (which I had started to try to solve the bowel slow-down issue which was getting to be a real problem).
3) Energy increase.


I just received the book "The Iron Elephant:What You Should Know about the Dangers of Excess Body Iron" and after giving it a quick skim and reading some parts more carefully, I'd highly recommend it to everyone.

http://www.amazon.com/Iron-Elephant-Should-Dangers-Excess/dp/0963254707/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1365165271&sr=8-2&keywords=iron+elephant

Anyway, it seems that whether you have high ferritin levels or not, whether you have high iron or are "anemic", there could be issues with iron.

I also suggest that everyone read the hemochromatosis thread. Since it is so common in the population, and so often misdiagnosed or not diagnosed at all until autopsy, it might pay to know as much about it as possible because you sure aren't going to get any accurate information from your doctor.

 

[Julius]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Regarding the cooked vs raw percent of protein in meat: I've always done my calculations for cooked meat, since it is cooked meat that I measure when I get some out for a meal. The Nutrition Facts program I use shows different values for raw and cooked meat protein content. And it's quite a difference.

For instance:

Ground Pork 28% fat 72% lean raw: 14.87g protein per 100g
Ground Pork 28% fat 72% lean pan broiled: 22.59g protein per 100g

3dStudent I read your post and something didn't compute to me so I searched the site I use to get nutritional information and got these values:

Pork, fresh, ground, raw: 17g protein per 100g
Pork, fresh, ground, cooked: 26g protein per 100g

heres the website:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-Ground%20Pork000000000000000000000.html

I cannot figure how cooking meat will increase its protein content.
I will do a deeper search later, don't have the time now.

 

[Foxx]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I cannot figure how cooking meat will increase its protein content.
I will do a deeper search later, don't have the time now.

As far as I'm aware, it's not that cooking the meat increases it's protein content, it's that 100g of raw meat doesn't equal 100g of cooked meat, with water evaporating from the cooking process and possibly some fat separating from the meat (hard to say exactly what they included in the weight), so that 100g of raw meat ends up being less than 100g of cooked meat, thus the protein per weight ratio increases, as their data suggests.

 

[Julius]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

As far as I'm aware, it's not that cooking the meat increases it's protein content, it's that 100g of raw meat doesn't equal 100g of cooked meat, with water evaporating from the cooking process and possibly some fat separating from the meat (hard to say exactly what they included in the weight), so that 100g of raw meat ends up being less than 100g of cooked meat, thus the protein per weight ratio increases, as their data suggests.

Oh, me. I read about the evaporating water before posting only to pay attention to just the figures.
You're right, it ends up being the total weight decreased due to the loss of water and/or fat, hence protein % increases.

 

[Hashhashin]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi All

Keto update

Partner and I have been in Ketosis for 5 weeks now. Still going strong and not having much issue with the foods we're missing out on.

Beginning weight (Male): 85kgs. Todays weight: 78.7kgs. Target weight: 75-77kgs
Beginning weight (Female): 70kgs. Todays weight: 62.7kgs. Target weight: 57kgs

Everything else is good too, we're feeling great, we're finding a great variety of recipes to ensure we eat well without missing out on flavour.

Thanks to everyone for all your input in this forum. I can share a few recipes as a way of thanks...because that's really all I can offer in terms of input.

I did have a strange experience. I was sitting in my car when I thought I was seeing the visual shimmering of the heat over the bonnet...but this time the waves got slightly darker and continued up the car and then off to the left of my car and past my window. This happened for about a minute.....and then it stopped. It was......interesting.

 

[Medulin]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It has been discovered that pure ketogenic diet is impossible to achieve, because our body can transform ketones into glucose.
You can block this transformation by taking disulfiram/Antabuse:

Combination treatment of epilepsy with ketogenic diet and concurrent pharmacological inhibition of cytochrome P450 2E1.

Abstract

While most epileptic patients respond to treatment with existing antiepileptic drugs, there remains a considerable number of patients in whom these drugs do not suffice. Such patients, particularly children, are often treated using the ketogenic diet. This diet imposes a strict limit on carbohydrates; while providing for adequate protein, most of the calories are supplied as triacylglycerol, much of which is metabolized to ketone bodies. Animal experiments have provided evidence that the anticonvulsant effect of the ketogenic diet is mediated by acetone and correlates with blood acetone levels. Acetone can be converted in vivo to glucose via acetol and pyruvate; the initial conversion to acetol is catalyzed by cytochrome P450 2E1 (CYP2E1). When CYP2E1 knockout mice are subjected to starvation to induce ketogenesis, they develop blood acetone levels much higher than those observed in wild-type mice. Similarly, pharmacological inhibition of CYP2E1 significantly increases blood acetone levels in rat and man. Taken together, these observations suggest that pharmacological inhibition of CYP2E1 has the potential to significantly increase the antiepileptic effect of the ketogenic diet. With patients that respond insufficiently to the diet alone, increased acetone levels may improve response. With patients who respond sufficiently to the diet, CYP2E1 inhibitors might allow a relaxation of the fairly severe diet regimen and so improve compliance and quality of life. An existing inhibitor of CYP2E1 is the drug disulfiram. This drug also inhibits the enzyme aldehyde dehydrogenase, which functions in alcohol degradation, and in this capacity has long been used in the treatment of alcohol addiction. Disulfiram inhibits CYP2E1 at conventional therapeutic dosages and increases blood acetone levels in humans and animals. It should therefore be a viable candidate for the proposed drug/diet combination treatment.

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23363738

 

[salinafaerie]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Will someone please direct me to were the C's first talked about the K diet and, also, did Laura and everyone know about the K diet before the C's mentioned it?

Thank you very much.