Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Alana]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

WIN, I strongly urge you to not stop taking your heart medication without medical supervision. You can take many supplements along with prescribed medicine and then, if your doctor sees enough improvement, he may reduce or eliminate your dosages, but do NOT do this without good, local, medical advice.

I agree with Laura on this. Some medications need to be weaned off slowly and under the care of a medical doctor, so as not to cause further problems to your system or withdrawal symptoms, things like that.

I just heard, "all are lessons"! My question is why do we have to keep learning the same things/making the same mistakes, over and over?

I don't know if you had a chance to read through the adaptive unconscious thread based on Wilson's book, Strangers to Ourselves, but both the thread, and especially the book, answer this question.

 

[WIN 52]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks for the concern.

I have spent a great deal of time working on understanding why I had a stroke in the first place. There were no symptoms normally associated with most stroke victims other than an out of control blood pressure. A big part of the medication included statin drugs because they regulated my blood pressure, where without them my BP would spike to 235 over 185 within a couple of days of no drugs. The other 3 being Avapro, metoprolol and 81mg aspirin. My pulse was 98, where now it is around 65.

I know this because I would periodically try to work with reduced dosages, etc. which never worked well. I would be back on the full dosage within a couple of days. When I began having distress after going full keto, the Dr wanted to double the statin drugs, which I refused to do. As long as I didn't work my heart muscle, things were somewhat good.

I carried on this way, still in Ketosis because the effects of being in this state were giving me the results I was looking for....the feeling to come back in my right side, which has sped up since going full ketosis. The C0Q10 has acted like a magic pill, eliminating the Heart stress problems. At the moment, this is the best I have felt for over 30 years.

During the months after the stroke(2005), the problems were more severe than they are now, even after quitting the statins 6 days ago. I have also shed 90 lbs of body mass since 2007 when I started detoxing via reduced carbs(mostly no bread back then). My weight has stabilized at 180lbs for the past 2 years now, which at 6' gives me a BMI that I thought was not possible for me to ever achieve.

The phlegm that I have been coughing up, for quite a while now, has also been reduced to about 10% of what it was in 2007 and it continues to lessen. As soon as I eat carbs, the phlegm increases in volume.

Try to not be concerned about what I do, with regards to taking this medication. I started cold turkey this time just to see how my BP would rise without the drugs. So far my pulse is great and my BP is 135/85, which I check daily or more.

I have trained myself to recognize when my blood pressure goes over 150. I can estimate my BP to within a few points, based on how my body is reacting. This comes from specifically working with these details and taking many BP readings. My BP has been at 235 several times, even on the drugs. I have learned how this feels also and can recognize it coming on. I carry Nitro and have used it a few times, but not in the past year. Mostly before losing the weight, right after the stroke.

I have had three Dr's since 2005 and they all said I would be on those pills for the rest of my life....well, I have been off them for 6 days now and counting. Plus, I have not seen the usual heart racing and other little signals that would start as soon as I even reduced the pills to half. I still have plenty of pills and I know they act quickly to reduce my blood pressure if/when it spikes. I know a lot more about my specific condition than any Dr. All they are interested in doing is pushing pills, making me eat Gluten with plastic and going to the lake, it seems.

The Liver is about the last organ that detoxes, if you are doing cleansing. How does that take place? Well it is kind of like the trots.....toxic trots.

 

[LQB]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I carried on this way, still in Ketosis because the effects of being in this state were giving me the results I was looking for....the feeling to come back in my right side, which has sped up since going full ketosis. The C0Q10 has acted like a magic pill, eliminating the Heart stress problems. At the moment, this is the best I have felt for over 30 years.

For others that may be in a similar situation as you, I have seen many docs that insist that if you take statins, you must supplement with COQ-10 to avoid heart problems (from the statins).

 

[WIN 52]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I carried on this way, still in Ketosis because the effects of being in this state were giving me the results I was looking for....the feeling to come back in my right side, which has sped up since going full ketosis. The C0Q10 has acted like a magic pill, eliminating the Heart stress problems. At the moment, this is the best I have felt for over 30 years.

For others that may be in a similar situation as you, I have seen many docs that insist that if you take statins, you must supplement with COQ-10 to avoid heart problems (from the statins).

Well, I am living proof. Day 7 no drugs. BP 140 over 78. pulse 68. This is a very normal reading for me. My BP has always been slightly higher than most people, even as a youth.

Taking the C0Q10 has proven to be very necessary.

Why did I resist taking it for so long, even after reading the information? Lack of trust?

 

[WIN 52]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Day 9; BP 133 over 72; pulse 62.

Not sure, but those drugs may have been blocking the final cleansing process. Mucous flow has reduced to almost nil today, with some big chunks eliminated yesterday.

 

[Eva]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Here's another small update.

I've been taking Liposomal Vit C since the 10th. Today, while on it for 7 days my blood ketone measurement was 4.2mmol/L and glucose 78mg/dL ,
while my last measurement before Vit C was ketones 3.9mmol/L and glucose 64 mg/dL.

For the increased glucose, I suspect that I may be messing up protein intake because it's not possible to eat 3 meals a day if I want my last meal to be around 19.00. I'm doing my best measuring and packing lunch but there are plenty of days when after breakfast at 6.00 I only have time to eat at 17.00 again. I tried having a later dinner but then it's impossible to have breakfast the next day.

I made broth with lamb and pork bones. Admittedly it didn't look appetizing at first but after having my first couple of bowls I now look at it and drool. Funny how that worked :) Haven't noticed any adverse effects compared to stock for now.

I have also taken some coQ10 to test if it would do away with palpitations and it actually did so it's in my list of supplements now.
Since I started taking magnesium again, the random joint and muscle pains were eliminated.
So my supplements package looks like this now :
Magnesium, Liposomal Vit C, Vit K-2, Vit E, NAC and ALA 5 times per week (due to working with toxic substances) and some primrose oil. I still take omega-3 occasionally but I won't be re-ordering now that I have grass-fed meat.
Also digestive enzymes with ox bile and a spoonful of vinegar with my broth.
I haven't added potassium yet but after spending some time on this list which has proven to be beneficial I'll add it and see if there are any changes.

What's my biggest challenge now, is starting RE.
I have taken the decision all right, but now I have to take the time to visit the gym too, and - "there is no time, I will be too tired to work afterwards, I have too many things to read.." oh so many reasons/excuses.

 

[Medulin]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

My brother had a birthday party yesterday, so I ate some cake and stuff like that, sugar/carbs,
I messed up with my diet plan...

I did not sleep well at all (even with magnesium and melatonin).
I had some strange dream...in which my family had some weird hybrid pets I had never seen in my life...
The dream was terrible, and it felt like some kind of alien propaganda (>>people live happily and have ''cute'' hybrid pets<<,
''hybrid ' meaning species from all over the galaxy mixed in together)... :/

I hope I will be fine again soon. I'm planning of going jogging tomorrow (for at least 10 miles)
to get rid of excessive carbs in my organism.
Fish will be on my menu tomorrow (sardines for breakfast; salmon for lunch; tuna for dinner).

When I'm on keto, I have no (recollection) of my dreams at all,
which is good, I sleep well and I don't feel tired when I wake up.

Today, when I woke up, I felt as if someone had been beating me for hours. :/

People around me don't really get this keto-thing, they keep saying ''sugar is fuel for cells'' blablabla...
I keep saying: ''There are no essential carbs, only essential aminoacids and essential fatty acids''. (Then they shut up).
(The only human cells that can't live without carbs are red blood cells and sperm cells, but when people are on a keto diet,
these cells get sugar from glucogenic amino acids; in this way, these cells get carbs they need and we don't overload ourselves
with sugar/carbs - there are no insulin ups and downs.)

 

[mkrnhr]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi Medulin,
The problem with eating cake, other than sugar, is gluten. It will take several months to eliminate it from the system again.

 

[Hashhashin]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi All

Just wanted to say that my partner and I have successfully moved over to a ketogenic diet and we are more than happy being in ketosis. My partner has already lost 3kgs in just over a week...and honestly not missing the carbs/sugars whatsoever, although the hot cocoa we made for the kids was torturous on the senses...but at least you can use smell to appreciate the sweetness.

Our diet has been good. The only thing we haven't cut out is coffee, proper coffee ground from beans, and we use unhomogenised milk with all that delicious cream in it. We're not even hitting our daily calorie requirement which technically means our body is using stored fat to provide energy also.

In all honesty its been awesome....although family have been unaccepting and not wanting to understand the process behind it, although my mum was more accepting of the idea that if carbs are bad for us and something diverted Homo Sapien from its natural progression then the stories of Gods or Watchers, who taught us agriculture, would point to the extra-terrestrial involvement that may have happened back then...although there is no logical argument from family against why our body, under a carb diet when no energy source is available, turns to consuming protein (muscle) before it uses stored fat.

I just wanted to say also that in terms of nutrients we are still getting everything we need. It's also been really fun finding recipes that are keto friendy, and finding new ways to serve certain meals we loved in a keto friendly way.

Best of luck on your travels people...I feel great, we feel great, and life is good.
Namaste

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi All

Just wanted to say that my partner and I have successfully moved over to a ketogenic diet and we are more than happy being in ketosis. My partner has already lost 3kgs in just over a week...and honestly not missing the carbs/sugars whatsoever, although the hot cocoa we made for the kids was torturous on the senses...but at least you can use smell to appreciate the sweetness.

Well done, MethodOfMadness ... seems to me that you have managed the transition well.

For optimal health I would further advocate to scrap the milk, as casein (the milk protein) has similar structure and side-effects as gluten.

Coffee is a bit of a conundrum, as for some it seems to be beneficial, while not so for others. I currently have one coffee per week (on Sundays) and do not seem to have negative effects from it. I was off coffee for 3 years before reintroducing it again a few months ago ... didn't really notice any difference. Tried caffeinated and uncaffeinated, not much difference either ... but I still want to be on the safer side, so one cup is enough.

Keep up the good work!

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Interesting article I found on ketogenic diet and pain ...

J Pain. 2013 Mar 14. pii: S1526-5900(13)00023-0. doi: 10.1016/j.jpain.2012.12.015. [Epub ahead of print]

Ketogenic Diets and Thermal Pain: Dissociation of Hypoalgesia, Elevated Ketones, and Lowered Glucose in Rats.

Ruskin DN, Suter TA, Ross JL, Masino SA.
Department of Psychology, Trinity College, Hartford, Connecticut; Neuroscience Program, Trinity College, Hartford, Connecticut. Electronic address: david.ruskin@trincoll.edu.

Abstract

Ketogenic diets (KDs) are high-fat, low-carbohydrate formulations effective in treating medically refractory epilepsy, and recently we demonstrated lowered sensitivity to thermal pain in rats fed a KD for 3 to 4 weeks. Regarding anticonvulsant and hypoalgesic mechanisms, theories are divided as to direct effects of increased ketones and/or decreased glucose, metabolic hallmarks of these diets. To address this point, we characterized the time course of KD-induced thermal hypoalgesia, ketosis, and lowered glucose in young male rats fed ad libitum on normal chow or KDs. A strict 6.6:1 (fat:[carbohydrates + protein], by weight) KD increased blood ketones and reduced blood glucose by 2 days of feeding, but thermal hypoalgesia did not appear until 10 days. Thus, ketosis and decreased glucose are not sufficient for hypoalgesia. After feeding a 6.6:1 KD for 19 days, decreased thermal pain sensitivity and changes in blood chemistry reversed 1 day after return to normal chow. Effects were consistent between 2 different diet formulations: a more moderate and clinically relevant KD formula (3.0:1) produced hypoalgesia and similar changes in blood chemistry as the 6.6:1 diet, thus increasing translational potential. Furthermore, feeding the 3.0:1 diet throughout an extended protocol (10-11 weeks) revealed that significant hypoalgesia and increased ketones persisted whereas low glucose did not, demonstrating that KD-induced hypoalgesia does not depend on reduced glucose. In separate experiments we determined that effects on thermal pain responses were not secondary to motor or cognitive changes. Together, these findings dissociate diet-related changes in nociception from direct actions of elevated ketones or decreased glucose, and suggest mechanisms with a slower onset in this paradigm. Overall, our data indicate that metabolic approaches can relieve pain.

PERSPECTIVE: Chronic pain is a common and debilitating condition. We show that a KD, a high-fat, very low carbohydrate diet well known for treating epilepsy, lowers sensitivity to thermal pain in rats. This reduced pain is not temporally correlated with hallmark diet-induced changes in blood glucose and ketones.

 

[Hashhashin]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks nicklebleu

Yeh, we take that into account...and we generally have a double shot of fresh coffee with a small amount of milk, three times a day. The downside is the lactose and casein...although this is measured and taken into account. The upside is the diuretic function of coffee which assists in regulating bowel movements.

We still need to investigate the Vitamin C side of things and Vitamin CoQ10, although we're thinking of consuming a local fruit Kakadu Plum instead of Liposomal Vitamin C. Kakadu Plum has the highest recorded Vitamin C content in any fruit known...although Liposomal Vit C may still absorb better. It may come down to price. I think we'll get enough CoQ10 from our Beef and Mackerel consumption...or maybe we might start consuming more organ meat...or just get the vitamins. It's only been a week and a bit but we're definitely wanting to ensure we get a complete nutrition.

 

[WIN 52]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Been almost 3 weeks statin free. The C0Q10 seems to be very helpful. I am taking the aspirin for an unknown reason other than advice. I did go back on the metoprolol at 1/2 the dose, which has helped ease the drug reduction. But in general, I feel pretty good.

On Saturday after a day of downhill skiing, something cleansed/flushed which caused me to vomit a large volume of gunk. I could feel it in the area of my gall bladder, making gurgling noises which seemed to hit my stomach then causing me to vomit. It felt like my gall bladder/liver area was cleaned out(for lack of a better description) after this event. This may be good news as my Dr was hinting about many older people having problems with the gall bladder.

I suspect this to be an area where pathogens congregate in an attempt to restrict the body's natural defense systems, giving them a place to live.

At this point in time, things are going fairly well:0)

Definitely need to stay gluten free, as I learned over christmas. My brother's birthday cake and ice cream on Sunday didn't even make a dint in my resolve. Though I did have some chocolate on the ski trip(old habits die hard). (and I wondered about one of my pet sayings "using it to lure them out".)

 

[Corvus]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I just have one question about fruits. Is all fruits out of a game or there is some that can be consumed? But from read I see that all fruits are of the table but if it is so then I am interested are some supplements and vitamins(which are not really healthy) recommended as a replacement for fruits? From what I saw I tried search function and did not find nothing specifically about fruits, only threads about high- fructose corn sirup which is high above in concentrations of fructose then everyday fruits. I do not eat gluten, casein and do not eat glucose but eat fruits, mostly bananas because I can not satisfy my appetite with only meat and lard in a way, it is primary about financial situation and rising meat prices.

 

[Seppo Ilmarinen]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I just have one question about fruits. Is all fruits out of a game or there is some that can be consumed? But from read I see that all fruits are of the table but if it is so then I am interested are some supplements and vitamins(which are not really healthy) recommended as a replacement for fruits? From what I saw I tried search function and did not find nothing specifically about fruits, only threads about high- fructose corn sirup which is high above in concentrations of fructose then everyday fruits. I do not eat gluten, casein and do not eat glucose but eat fruits, mostly bananas because I can not satisfy my appetite with only meat and lard in a way, it is primary about financial situation and rising meat prices.

Eating bananas will knock you out from ketosis and if you can't satisfy your appetite with ketogenic diet (20/80% protein to fat ratio of total energy), there's propably something wrong with your diet. Maybe you could try avocados instead of bananas? Financially this diet is going take your budget down, because you don't have to eat all the time and meat is cheaper that veggies. I usually eat two times in a day and feel totally satisfied.

Eating bone broth and liver is good way to get proper nutrition and maybe supplementing magnesium and potassium once in a while. There's lots of good discussion in this thread and life without bread thread, you could check them also :)