Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

salinafaerie said:
Will someone please direct me to were the C's first talked about the K diet and, also, did Laura and everyone know about the K diet before the C's mentioned it?

Thank you very much.

Have you take the time to read all the pages of this thread and the thread linked in the first post of this thread?

You should find your answers to your questions.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Gandalf said:
Have you take the time to read all the pages of this thread and the thread linked in the first post of this thread?

You should find your answers to your questions.

I have not read the whole thread, I admit. :-[


No free lunch, I know, especially on this thread. ;)



Thanks.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I've read Laura's experiences before of becoming less sensitive to casein over time, such that tolerance somewhat increased. For me, it's been the opposite; using mostly tallow for fat, and not having the slightest trace of casein for many months, I seem to have become even more sensitive. When suet (and hence tallow) ran out, and I made and had some ghee some days ago, I found I could no longer tolerate it. Brain fog quickly set in; it was nasty - feeling as if my self retreated inwards (away from focus and activities), as if part of my mind was disabled, with willpower and determination shriveling away. At first, I feared that what seemed such a severe inflammation might cause permanent damage. It gradually got better, but fog remained for the whole day. Taking no chances, I'm henceforth going to apply the same standard as for traces of gluten, i.e. the slightest trace of casein means the item is not fit for consumption.

This has got me thinking: Am I simply "unlucky", or would more find themselves becoming increasingly sensitive after living strictly on a zero-traces-of-casein ketogenic diet for months?
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Psalehesost said:
I've read Laura's experiences before of becoming less sensitive to casein over time, such that tolerance somewhat increased. For me, it's been the opposite; using mostly tallow for fat, and not having the slightest trace of casein for many months, I seem to have become even more sensitive. When suet (and hence tallow) ran out, and I made and had some ghee some days ago, I found I could no longer tolerate it. Brain fog quickly set in; it was nasty - feeling as if my self retreated inwards (away from focus and activities), as if part of my mind was disabled, with willpower and determination shriveling away. At first, I feared that what seemed such a severe inflammation might cause permanent damage. It gradually got better, but fog remained for the whole day. Taking no chances, I'm henceforth going to apply the same standard as for traces of gluten, i.e. the slightest trace of casein means the item is not fit for consumption.

This has got me thinking: Am I simply "unlucky", or would more find themselves becoming increasingly sensitive after living strictly on a zero-traces-of-casein ketogenic diet for months?

I think it's the latter. It seems to be happening when you clear your body of toxic foods, that the body starts sending you messages of what it's good for it and what it's not, by unpleasant symptoms. I used to eat bread all my life, and now, after cutting all gluten out for so long, even a tiny bit of it causes me abdominal pain and brain fog. Am I understanding correctly what you are asking though?
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Alana said:
It seems to be happening when you clear your body of toxic foods, that the body starts sending you messages of what it's good for it and what it's not, by unpleasant symptoms. I used to eat bread all my life, and now, after cutting all gluten out for so long, even a tiny bit of it causes me abdominal pain and brain fog. Am I understanding correctly what you are asking though?

When I cut out bread, grain, etc., for more than a few weeks but, for whatever reason, then go back to eating even the slightest bit, my tongue swells so it barely fits in my mouth. If I eat any of the same things regularly, my tongue is probably swollen a little but not to any extreme. I had no luck convincing my doctor that that actually happened. I got a new doctor.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Psalehesost said:
Brain fog quickly set in; it was nasty - feeling as if my self retreated inwards (away from focus and activities), as if part of my mind was disabled, with willpower and determination shriveling away. At first, I feared that what seemed such a severe inflammation might cause permanent damage. It gradually got better, but fog remained for the whole day.

I can definitely relate to this. I doubt that it's simply a signal from the body. It affects what I can DO with my brain. My thought process becomes necessarily more linear an compulsive and I may get racing, repetitious thoughts. I have rarely experienced this in relation to diet. Rather, it happens to me if I play videogames. If I play too long, there seems to be adrenaline or stress or something. I'll describe how it feels. I'm going on with my life, and my thoughts live develop continuously over the days. I spend time thinking, considering, organizing, prioritizing, preparing and carrying out my goals. So my thoughts are like one long string being crocheted in deliberate, intricate patterns. Then I play a videogame. As I focus more and more narrowly, training myself to the signals of the game, the stress tugs on the string, and like links in a chain, the knots begin to pull apart and all my work is lost. All the memories and ideas are there, but there's no longer any coherency, I can't just take up from where I left off. I suddenly cannot grasp the point of it all, and have no way to continue. It's a really terrible feeling which lasts for weeks, and it feels like I have to start from nowhere and find direction again. I have to wait until my thoughts begin to feel normal again - if not, I can only attempt to go on by lying to myself - because I really cannot grasp the concept of the crochet and how to do what I was doing before.

This has not always happened as a result of videogames. Sometimes it has happened mysterious reasons. Eventually I realized I could develop a system for dealing with it. Whenever I enter this "dim" state, I explicitly acknowledge that I can no longer make sincere efforts in the way that I did before. Accepting this gives me a new starting point and allows me to not obsess and dwell over the terrible feeling, and the previous work that I can no longer complete. From this point I can accept the things I can't do, and work on the things that I still can; one of them is necessarily to be patient. Eventually my mind recovers and life experiences provide new life with which I can begin to work the needles again.

The concept in my mind of what was happening to me has a visual/coneptual nature and always appeared to be sort of like a molecule or crochet or a fiber string pulling apart, but not breaking, only losing its complexity and organization (DNA?). As if two parts of my brain were aligned against each other (competition over cooperation) and playing tug-of-war. The rope is related to the way I interact with the videogame. The brain parts align against each other in order to attempt to gain greater control over the rope, because games require you to think intelligently and reflexively at the same time. It is like tensing up your entire arm in order to try and stop your fingers from shaking. It probably won't work very well, and in the meantime you are straining your muscles and retraining your muscle memory to a task which is "not even wrong". Do this long enough and you may lose fine motor skills which you had developed previously.

My other thought on the matter is that while playing a reflexive videogame, I was constantly involving system1 in order to "program" my reflexes to work the game. It seems this is the wrong way to do it, and it gives system1 explicit control over my thoughts, intentions, and actions. It seems during this time it can reverse and corrupt whatever system2 had been working on. The disappointing result is that once this change of hands occurs, thoughts become very linear, reflexive, and compulsive. After this point I can't even play a videogame well. However this result makes sense because most people's ultimate goal when playing is to escape, to dissociate. The inevitable result of this in concert with system1 exclusivity, is that one becomes a reaction machine; it no longer matters even if you do perform badly, as long as you're having "fun". The question is, is it fun to be a mindless robot? Therefore, the way to avoid entering into such a state is to be mindful and self-remember. As it turns out, this mindset usually results in not playing a videogame at all!

Does this make sense?
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Psalehesost said:
I've read Laura's experiences before of becoming less sensitive to casein over time, such that tolerance somewhat increased.

Actually, that is not the case if you read what I wrote about our Christmas experience. The purest cream available acted on me like drinking acid or worse and was followed by violent ejection by the stomach. Not gonna be trying that again.

I CAN have a little coffee now and then, but NO cream at all. If there is a bit of cream in a recipe, that MIGHT slip by, but I'm not inclined to test it.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hi,
I ordered some C Q10 caps, and i'm wondering, as i couldn't find available supplement without soy oil in other ingredients list in it, is ithat small amount in them dangerous? Or could C Q10 be absorbed if i don't eat the coating?
It is 60 mg per capsule, and other ingredients are: gelatin, organic soybean oil, glycerin, purified water, annatto oil concentrate, soy lecitin, yellow beeswax.
Thank you.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

lux12 said:
Hi,
I ordered some C Q10 caps, and i'm wondering, as i couldn't find available supplement without soy oil in other ingredients list in it, is ithat small amount in them dangerous? Or could C Q10 be absorbed if i don't eat the coating?
It is 60 mg per capsule, and other ingredients are: gelatin, organic soybean oil, glycerin, purified water, annatto oil concentrate, soy lecitin, yellow beeswax.
Thank you.

Well, does it say at least "hexane free"?

I think that at iherb.com you will be able to find some soy free CoQ10.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

No, it does not. Specifically, it is Swanson ultra supplement, i am not sure about that detail.

Thank you for recommendation.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Alana said:
Psalehesost said:
This has got me thinking: Am I simply "unlucky", or would more find themselves becoming increasingly sensitive after living strictly on a zero-traces-of-casein ketogenic diet for months?

I think it's the latter. It seems to be happening when you clear your body of toxic foods, that the body starts sending you messages of what it's good for it and what it's not, by unpleasant symptoms. I used to eat bread all my life, and now, after cutting all gluten out for so long, even a tiny bit of it causes me abdominal pain and brain fog. Am I understanding correctly what you are asking though?

In part. My thoughts were poorly elaborated, and I hope to clarify them below.

By "unlucky", I meant that I might be more sensitive than most in having such a strong reaction even to ghee. The other option is that more people would experience reactions on a similar scale given sufficient time both: 1) On the diet. 2) Without ingesting any traces of casein. In the latter case, a further possibility is that a number of people are presently damaging themselves - even if they notice nothing wrong - in eating butter or even ghee.

A point here is that the consensus of the network is that butter (unless reacted to) and ghee (unless reacted to) are fine, despite containing casein, which is otherwise recognized as damaging. But if people regularly use one and/or the other, and these things are actually bad (or even evil) in general - not just to a few - there's no chance of the body getting clear enough to send the message.

I used to "tolerate" them - after a year on an all-meat-and-fat diet (except some irregular, short-lived experiments with nuts, a few veggies, etc.) I found, in testing it, that I was a bit sensitive to butter; ghee still seemed to work. After another year, butter was firmly out, ghee still seemed to work - I could guess at a slight impact which was so subtle I couldn't be sure it was real. Some months later - which is also some months ago - this was still the case with ghee. Now, however, it is firmly out.

So in addition to avoiding potentially bad stuff in order to test it, it seems that years on the diet are needed to restore full sensitivity. And after years, apparent sensitivity can still change significantly in the course of a few months. (And perhaps for many, having noticeable reactions to various things, if/when tested, might yet be several years off.)

monotonic said:
Psalehesost said:
Brain fog quickly set in; it was nasty - feeling as if my self retreated inwards (away from focus and activities), as if part of my mind was disabled, with willpower and determination shriveling away. At first, I feared that what seemed such a severe inflammation might cause permanent damage. It gradually got better, but fog remained for the whole day.

I can definitely relate to this. [...]

I have read that the kind of brain inflammation caused by gluten and casein reduce blood flow to the prefrontal cortex - which means it cripples the functioning of System 2. (Given what most people eat and have eaten all their lives, perhaps this is connected with the general weakness of System 2 in people.) Various kinds of mental activity (both "voluntary" kinds and e.g. automatic processes formed through trauma) can "accomplish" similar System 2-crippling effects, though for different reasons. (And on that note, if you have not yet eliminated games completely, I would say that doing so is as basic and essential to "mental diet" as eliminating gluten is to physical diet.)

Laura said:
Psalehesost said:
I've read Laura's experiences before of becoming less sensitive to casein over time, such that tolerance somewhat increased.

Actually, that is not the case if you read what I wrote about our Christmas experience. The purest cream available acted on me like drinking acid or worse and was followed by violent ejection by the stomach. Not gonna be trying that again.

I CAN have a little coffee now and then, but NO cream at all. If there is a bit of cream in a recipe, that MIGHT slip by, but I'm not inclined to test it.

I'd forgotten that later update - apparent sensitivity increasing after first (according to messages at an earlier time) decreasing, at least in terms of severity of reaction. So, the big question is: Is it probable that, given sufficient time for your body on the diet, you would one day be reacting the same to butter or even ghee, even if they presently go down without complaint?
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Well, I might be able to evaluate this better once I get my iron overload down. That will take a little while. After that, let's see how the body reacts to things.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Laura said:
We eat a lot of butter to make up our fat content.
I'm gunna reintroduce butter and see what happens. (I LOVE butter, but the last time I ate it I got a headache.) And if butter intolerance is tied to iron overload, then - wonderful!
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

[quote author=http://www.healing-arts.org/children/autism-overview.htm] Alan Friedman and colleagues have pioneered the potential role of DPP IV deficiency in autism. Some have gone so far as to suggest that DPP-IV deficiency may explain all of the abnormalities seen in autism. Dipeptidyl peptidase IV (DPP-IV) is a serine peptidase that removes N-terminal dipeptides sequentially from polypeptides having unsubstituted N-termini provided the penultimate residue is proline.

The only known enzyme to break down casomorphine, dipeptidyl peptidase IV or DDP-IV, appears to be absent or reduced in autistic children.
The gene for this enzyme is distal to other suspected autism genes on 2 and Q of 7 and is expressed in the kidney, the small intestine, the liver, the blood-brain barrier, and has involvement in T-Cell activation. {the gene is expressed in all these organs, plus the BBB and our immune system... these are the same places we deal with when we talk about iron} Also found in the urine were undigested food particles, suggesting a leaky gut syndrome.

Mice with the a defective casomorphine enzyme gene will die if not on a gluten free diet. Later we will discuss the possible role of glutein and cassein in autism, and the elimination of these substances from the diet as a treatment. The toxicity of gluten and cassein may result from the lack of DPP IV. Thus, DPP deficiency may be important in explaining opioid excess.[/quote]

Jeanne Brohart blames vaccines for her son's autism. She has a lot to say about iron (in addition to other toxic heavy metals).

[quote author=Jeanne Brohart http://www.autismhelpforyou.com/Redefining%20The%20Role%20Of%20Insulin.htm]Children with autism are known to be very deficient in B6. Do these children with autism crave grains because they provide “some” B6 – even if in very limited amounts due to processing issues? Do they crave milk because it provides calcium (known to inhibit iron absorption)? Do they experience a hallucinogen effect because of the stress involved in these disorders? Certainly, a “numbing” of sorts as would be provided via a natural opiate effect could affect one’s memory of painful and/or traumatic events. Again, more interesting questions.

Note that B6 is also tied to approximately 100 enzymes functions [91] and that enzyme dysfunction as it relates to casein and/or gluten breakdown also very much appear to be a problem area not only for children with autism [99] but for persons with schizophrenia [100, 101] and dementia [102] as well.[/quote]

I once read that a woman was having Alzheimer-like symptoms, and the doc gave her a jab of B6 (or was it B12? can't remember) and she was perfectly fine after that.

More from Jeanne Brohart

[quote author=http://www.autismhelpforyou.com/anemia.htm]Hemoglobin is not iron! Unfortunately physicians prescribe iron to anemic people who test with low hemoglobin. Yes, the patients are anemic, but the iron is collecting in storage instead of going into hemoglobin. These people are iron-loaded. They need iron removed despite the anemia. The anemia should be treated with B vitamins, especially B12, B6 and folic acid. {exactly the things that are added to modern gluten foods by manufacturers, incidentally. Jeanne also speculates
Note that casein kinase 1 is involved in dna repair and that the very things which contain gluten - grains - are sources of something else that is critical to these children - Vitamin B6. Could this be part of the reason why these children were craving milk and gluten products... for the potential benefit they may derive from milk and vitamin B6 - in spite of the fact that they had issues digesting foods like milk and grains because of compromised immune systems.
}

<snip>

As Roberta Crawford of the Iron Overload Diseases Association has stated, a person would have to be on a starvation diet to be "iron deficient". Thus, it is much more likely that "anemia" in autism and Alzheimer's is more likely the result of IRON LOADING anemia!

Also, disorders such as autism and Alzheimer's are very much tied to vitamin B deficiencies.

“A deficiency of vitamin B6 can result in anemia that is similar to iron deficiency anemia” [33].

Thus... is it "anemia" that we should be diagnosing in these patients or vitamin B deficiency? Another very interesting question![/quote]

[quote author=http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16189201]
Clusters of phosphoserine residues in cow milk caseins bind iron (Fe) with high affinity. Casein inhibits Fe absorption in humans, but protein hydrolysis lessens this effect. Phosphopeptides from different caseins gave conflicting results on Fe absorption; release of phosphate residues by intestinal alkaline phosphatase could be a key point of that metabolism.

<snip>

The differences in protein composition between cow and breast milk, which does not contain alpha-casein, could explain some of their differences in Fe bioavailability.[/quote]

Another -

[quote author=http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/c4032?lang=en&region=US]
Clusters of phosphoserine in casein chelate iron and reduce its bioavailability. Partial enzymatic digestion of casein unmasks phosphorylated residues to alkaline phosphatase, permitting dephosphorylation and increasing the bioavailability of iron.[/quote]

Which reminds me of the Jews

[quote author=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_and_meat_in_Jewish_law]Mixtures of milk and meat (Hebrew: בשר בחלב‎, basar bechalav, literally "meat in milk") are prohibited according to Jewish law.[/quote]

How do I connect the dots here... Maybe back in the days when bloodletting was common, cultures that ate dairy did so to chelate iron? (if that is even possible)

Or, does iron overload somehow cause gluten to have the effect it does, so our guts become leaky and the casein that escapes into our bloodstream carries iron with it... and dephosphorylation of that casein will release the iron.

If we stay clean for so long and expect our guts to have healed, and we still react to casein, then the reason may be that we can't digest casein properly (or take too long to digest it). Then, we can speculate that it's because we are deficient in the enzyme DPP-4. And why are we deficient? Probably has to do with iron loading.

Also, DPP-4 inhibitors are used to treat type-2 diabetes. Here's how it works

Incretins_and_DPP_4_inhibitors.svg


Note that DPP-4 inhibits incretin, meaning that DPP-4 indirectly helps raise blood glucose. I don't know how this relates but here's something from Jack Kruse

[quote author=http://www.jackkruse.com/cpc4-evolutionary-friend-or-foe/]When we see this occur it suggests that some aspect of trait that causes a disease today likely helped our ancestors in our past to survive. In the case of diabetes, high blood glucose levels allows a person to deal better with extreme cold because it lowers the freezing point of blood! It is natural antifreeze that allows life to exist in the cold.

<snip>

To make Ice wine in late harvest around frost time, a grape begins to protect itself by rapidly reducing its water content and by raising its sugar content. It tries to eliminate water when it gets cold. Now maybe you understand why you have the urge to urinate when you begin to use cold thermogenesis? You transiently are dumping water and raising your blood glucose levels just like a grape. But what happens in you is with longer adaptation you BG level drop as your fat mass shrinks. You eventually lose all your glucose stores and eventually just burn fat to survive. Humans have this ability as we evolved.....but the Neanderthals likely did not. Why you may ask?

Do ever wonder why they never won out in evolution against us? Modern science still struggles to figure out why? Could it be they could not become diabetic to survive the cold of the ancient past?[/quote]

Btw, ice wine = Eiswein. As in

Q: Can you comment on Pannonia in general? Is it in any way significant? This lake Neusiedl?
A: Eiswein: Eisenstadt.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Fwiw this a quote on inhibiting iron absorbtion from livestrong.com According to the Iron Disorders Institute, cocoa can inhibit 90 percent of iron absorption in the body. I think eating cocoa after an iron rich may help block absorbtion.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/284339-foods-that-inhibit-iron-absorption/#ixzz2QPctCtk0
 

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