Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions
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mcb
The Living Force
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Some people may not respond well to long term consumption of fermented foods. If you find that introducing them helps at first and then the effect tapers off (as I did) and seems to be lost, try eating them only intermittently. I am experimenting with that now.
Psalehesost said:
Some people may not respond well to long term consumption of fermented foods. If you find that introducing them helps at first and then the effect tapers off (as I did) and seems to be lost, try eating them only intermittently. I am experimenting with that now.
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Thanks! I will try that.
My fingernails are actually very tough after eating few carbs for a while, so I suspect my problem is not a K2 deficiency but rather a symptom of a bigger problem causing multiple issues. The causes of calculus growth as given in the article I posted previously seem to tie in with a number of other issues I have.
hotfrog said:
Thanks! I will try that.
My fingernails are actually very tough after eating few carbs for a while, so I suspect my problem is not a K2 deficiency but rather a symptom of a bigger problem causing multiple issues. The causes of calculus growth as given in the article I posted previously seem to tie in with a number of other issues I have.
Minas Tirith
Jedi Council Member
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
I am asking this question for my husband, who is on the brink of being ketogenic (haven't bought the strips yet, but will in the next days). Problem is, he lost a lot of weight and is still losing...
He says, he feels he is not getting enough fat, even though we put quite a lot of butter on the meats and bacon. Is this weight loss going to stop eventually and what are your suggestions of amping up the fat-intake?
I told him to read through this thread, but he is not really the "reading type", if you know what I mean. I am so far "only" Paleo, trying to follow the Paleo thread...
Thanks!
M.T.
I am asking this question for my husband, who is on the brink of being ketogenic (haven't bought the strips yet, but will in the next days). Problem is, he lost a lot of weight and is still losing...
He says, he feels he is not getting enough fat, even though we put quite a lot of butter on the meats and bacon. Is this weight loss going to stop eventually and what are your suggestions of amping up the fat-intake? I told him to read through this thread, but he is not really the "reading type", if you know what I mean. I am so far "only" Paleo, trying to follow the Paleo thread...
Thanks!
M.T.
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Hi Minas Tirith, I cannot help you on the weight loss issue as my experience was different but I can give you some advice on fat-intake. Bacon is usually a good source of fat but try to avoid cuts that are cured with sugar so always read the label first if you aren't buying from a local butcher (I would also avoid smoked bacon). Initially I used to buy different kinds of meat such as beef, lamb, chicken etc. but I now go mainly for pork meats as they are high in fat. It is important that your husband chooses cuts that are highest in fat, ideally half-fat, half-meat to keep the 4:1 ratio as the body needs the fat to make up for the loss of carbs which may be the reason for the weight loss. Also, possibly the most important factor when transitioning to a ketogenic diet is bone broth. It may be worth starting with meat stock which is easier to digest and then make a batch of bone broth to see he reacts to it. This link will help you understand better: http://www.sott.net/article/257416-Stock-vs-Broth-Are-You-Confused. Hope it helps.
Minas Tirith said:I am asking this question for my husband, who is on the brink of being ketogenic (haven't bought the strips yet, but will in the next days). Problem is, he lost a lot of weight and is still losing...
I told him to read through this thread, but he is not really the "reading type", if you know what I mean. I am so far "only" Paleo, trying to follow the Paleo thread...
Thanks!
M.T.
Hi Minas Tirith, I cannot help you on the weight loss issue as my experience was different but I can give you some advice on fat-intake. Bacon is usually a good source of fat but try to avoid cuts that are cured with sugar so always read the label first if you aren't buying from a local butcher (I would also avoid smoked bacon). Initially I used to buy different kinds of meat such as beef, lamb, chicken etc. but I now go mainly for pork meats as they are high in fat. It is important that your husband chooses cuts that are highest in fat, ideally half-fat, half-meat to keep the 4:1 ratio as the body needs the fat to make up for the loss of carbs which may be the reason for the weight loss. Also, possibly the most important factor when transitioning to a ketogenic diet is bone broth. It may be worth starting with meat stock which is easier to digest and then make a batch of bone broth to see he reacts to it. This link will help you understand better: http://www.sott.net/article/257416-Stock-vs-Broth-Are-You-Confused. Hope it helps.
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
I can fry 4 eggs in 5 tablespoons of butter. Then I crush up the yolks and it makes a really delicious mixture with the butter. That is of course if you can tolerate butter and eggs. When I have tuna, I mix in 3 tablespoons of melted butter and 1 tablespoon olive oil, 1/4 teaspoon vinegar and plenty of black pepper, and it tastes amazing. The trick is to use emulsifiers to break up the fat. If I fry ground meat, I will add stew seasonings, vinegar and enough water to barely suspend the fat. Do not forget all the basic herb spices and experiment. I found I have to cook my eggs very carefully to keep the butter tasting good, so if things don't turn out, you may experiment. Sauerkraut works great for breaking the fat.
If fat is not really the problem, then you may try L-carnitine supplements. Do NOT neglect any symptoms of poor digestion. This includes indigestion, bowel problems, food sensitivities and so on.
Being "on the brink" of ketogenic is not optimal because your body is juggling between the two extremes. My experience is that this makes you miserable. PBPM gives a ream of suggestions for helping with ketoadaption symptoms.
I hope you have done all the reading. Not everyone has problems with the transition but for some it can be really harmful if the adaption supplements are neglected. If you have not read all of this thread and the LWB thread and the books recommended therein, you should not be trying this, since it is in fact an experiment, to my knowledge.
Minas Tirith said:I am asking this question for my husband, who is on the brink of being ketogenic (haven't bought the strips yet, but will in the next days). Problem is, he lost a lot of weight and is still losing...
I told him to read through this thread, but he is not really the "reading type", if you know what I mean. I am so far "only" Paleo, trying to follow the Paleo thread...
Thanks!
M.T.
I can fry 4 eggs in 5 tablespoons of butter. Then I crush up the yolks and it makes a really delicious mixture with the butter. That is of course if you can tolerate butter and eggs. When I have tuna, I mix in 3 tablespoons of melted butter and 1 tablespoon olive oil, 1/4 teaspoon vinegar and plenty of black pepper, and it tastes amazing. The trick is to use emulsifiers to break up the fat. If I fry ground meat, I will add stew seasonings, vinegar and enough water to barely suspend the fat. Do not forget all the basic herb spices and experiment. I found I have to cook my eggs very carefully to keep the butter tasting good, so if things don't turn out, you may experiment. Sauerkraut works great for breaking the fat.
If fat is not really the problem, then you may try L-carnitine supplements. Do NOT neglect any symptoms of poor digestion. This includes indigestion, bowel problems, food sensitivities and so on.
Being "on the brink" of ketogenic is not optimal because your body is juggling between the two extremes. My experience is that this makes you miserable. PBPM gives a ream of suggestions for helping with ketoadaption symptoms.
I hope you have done all the reading. Not everyone has problems with the transition but for some it can be really harmful if the adaption supplements are neglected. If you have not read all of this thread and the LWB thread and the books recommended therein, you should not be trying this, since it is in fact an experiment, to my knowledge.
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
I went from about 13 1/4 stone down to 11 1/4 stone (84kg to 71.5kg, 185.5 pounds to 157.5 pounds) when I changed my diet, over a period of a couple of months, and have levelled off at that lower level.
You can check charts of suggested healthy weight ranges for different heights, e.g. here:
_http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/height_weight.shtml
(This is just the first site I found, there might be better sites. And the info might be more valid for determining if one is underweight, rather than overweight.)
I went from about 13 1/4 stone down to 11 1/4 stone (84kg to 71.5kg, 185.5 pounds to 157.5 pounds) when I changed my diet, over a period of a couple of months, and have levelled off at that lower level.
You can check charts of suggested healthy weight ranges for different heights, e.g. here:
_http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/height_weight.shtml
(This is just the first site I found, there might be better sites. And the info might be more valid for determining if one is underweight, rather than overweight.)
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
There really is no substitute for reading the entire thread before going on the diet. This has been stated over and over again. There is so much valuable information with so many people doing this and finding out various things that it really is a must. Also, knowing how and why you do something is really, really important.
Having said that, quite a few people have lost weight and then, after a period of time, gained some back. Others have not.
I really can't stress enough how reading the entire thread is so very important.
Minas Tirith said:I am asking this question for my husband, who is on the brink of being ketogenic (haven't bought the strips yet, but will in the next days). Problem is, he lost a lot of weight and is still losing...
I told him to read through this thread, but he is not really the "reading type", if you know what I mean. I am so far "only" Paleo, trying to follow the Paleo thread...
Thanks!
M.T.
There really is no substitute for reading the entire thread before going on the diet. This has been stated over and over again. There is so much valuable information with so many people doing this and finding out various things that it really is a must. Also, knowing how and why you do something is really, really important.
Having said that, quite a few people have lost weight and then, after a period of time, gained some back. Others have not.
I really can't stress enough how reading the entire thread is so very important.
mcb
The Living Force
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Perhaps he's not. I have recently had to face this issue myself, as I reached my goal weight of around 172 lbs/78 kg and, while I was tapering off a bit I was still losing. Going down a little more would not be a problem, but I wanted to make sure I could do something about it if it still continued to fall. For me, more fat definitely helps, and more protein definitely does not. Protein is what has driven my weight loss -- by promoting satiety -- and it was important for me to lower it toward the RDA as I reached my goal (if you don't know what I mean, you haven't done enough reading!). This was easy, because my appetite was telling me to eat less protein, but I wasn't at all excited about eating more fat.
I think the main thing is to heal any gut inflammation that may be remaining. If you have issues with that, it affects *everything*. I am still working on that. In the mean time, I find that eating some nuts every day (especially Brazil nuts!) will stop my weight loss cold. They contribute both fat and carbohydrate, but a lot of both tends to pass through and be consumed by gut bacteria (the bacteria don't ferment the fat, but they are able to make use of it directly). This is an individual solution, however, and may not work for others. That is not unusual, I don't think.
Minas Tirith said:
Perhaps he's not. I have recently had to face this issue myself, as I reached my goal weight of around 172 lbs/78 kg and, while I was tapering off a bit I was still losing. Going down a little more would not be a problem, but I wanted to make sure I could do something about it if it still continued to fall. For me, more fat definitely helps, and more protein definitely does not. Protein is what has driven my weight loss -- by promoting satiety -- and it was important for me to lower it toward the RDA as I reached my goal (if you don't know what I mean, you haven't done enough reading!). This was easy, because my appetite was telling me to eat less protein, but I wasn't at all excited about eating more fat.
I think the main thing is to heal any gut inflammation that may be remaining. If you have issues with that, it affects *everything*. I am still working on that. In the mean time, I find that eating some nuts every day (especially Brazil nuts!) will stop my weight loss cold. They contribute both fat and carbohydrate, but a lot of both tends to pass through and be consumed by gut bacteria (the bacteria don't ferment the fat, but they are able to make use of it directly). This is an individual solution, however, and may not work for others. That is not unusual, I don't think.
Minas Tirith
Jedi Council Member
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Thanks for all your input and replies, it was already very helpful.
I showed him your posts and he is going to do it!
M.T.
Thanks for all your input and replies, it was already very helpful.
Nienna said:
I showed him your posts and he is going to do it!
M.T.
E
emilien512
Guest
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Quick question, adipose tissue (body fat) begin to appear while eating high carb but when eating ketogenic, where does the fatty accid get stored? liver?
Quick question, adipose tissue (body fat) begin to appear while eating high carb but when eating ketogenic, where does the fatty accid get stored? liver?
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
I'm not sure I quite understand your question, but my understanding is that since fat is the fuel the body uses to run on a ketogenic diet, there is no reason to store it - it's being used as fuel. If fat is stored for any reason, it would also be stored in adipose tissue, it's just that on a true ketogenic diet this is unusual since fat is fueling the processes in the body. If I'm off, I'm sure someone will correct me.emilien512 said:
beetlemaniac
The Living Force
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
From what I understand, fat is stored in a high-carbohydrate diet because of the hormone insulin being triggered as soon as the body detects the sharp increase in blood glucose from the types of food that are ingested (bread for example is documented to increase blood glucose higher than even sugar). Insulin then signals fat cells to hoard that glucose as fat, when there is surplus beyond the glucose that is burned (or stored in muscle as glycogen) at the moment it enters the bloodstream. I think the recommended books do give a good overview of these concepts: Life Without Bread and Primal Body Primal Mind.anart said:
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living gives a very good explanation of these processes.
During an insulin surge blood glucose is converted to palmitoleic acid (POA). It cannot be converted back to glucose so it sits in the tissues until the hormones align to release it - which is almost never on a high-carb diet. Accumulated fat is mostly POA; saturated fat is treated as an energy source to the extent that ketoadaption allows and the rest is excreted and not stored. So the answer to your question is, the extra fat is stored in your septic tank, if it's not being burned for energy.
The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living gives a very good explanation of these processes.
During an insulin surge blood glucose is converted to palmitoleic acid (POA). It cannot be converted back to glucose so it sits in the tissues until the hormones align to release it - which is almost never on a high-carb diet. Accumulated fat is mostly POA; saturated fat is treated as an energy source to the extent that ketoadaption allows and the rest is excreted and not stored. So the answer to your question is, the extra fat is stored in your septic tank, if it's not being burned for energy.
WIN 52
The Living Force
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?
Still having BP issues. There was an article on SOTT that discussed the use of Aspirin. Now, this low dose one a day prescription that I have been using since 2005, as directed by most physicians for people over 50, seems to be creating the problem.
According to the article, Aspirin blocks the body's ability to produce the chemical which controls blood pressure in a human body.
How is that for a twist? Consequently it is necessary to take the Statins and Avapro to control blood pressure if you take Aspirin, which is/was the state of affairs within my machine.
I have quit taking the Aspirin since Monday 24th of June. The BP spikes which have been commonplace since 2005 & stroke seem to not be as severe this week. It would happen with exertion, where now the body seems to handle exertion a little better. We will see! Have been taking the other drugs every other day as without them my BP would spike up, resulting in having to resume the full dose.
Re. the gluten: It definitely takes 6 months for your gut to heal from eating it. There are no short cuts!
For those who do not know, I have lost 110 lbs. since 2007 starting Paleo and for the last 2 years in Keto. At 6 ft and 185 lbs for the past 2 years, there should have been no reason for my machine to not be able to work properly. I am quite excited about the possibility of getting back to some sort of life without drugs.
Still having BP issues. There was an article on SOTT that discussed the use of Aspirin. Now, this low dose one a day prescription that I have been using since 2005, as directed by most physicians for people over 50, seems to be creating the problem.
According to the article, Aspirin blocks the body's ability to produce the chemical which controls blood pressure in a human body.
How is that for a twist? Consequently it is necessary to take the Statins and Avapro to control blood pressure if you take Aspirin, which is/was the state of affairs within my machine.
I have quit taking the Aspirin since Monday 24th of June. The BP spikes which have been commonplace since 2005 & stroke seem to not be as severe this week. It would happen with exertion, where now the body seems to handle exertion a little better. We will see! Have been taking the other drugs every other day as without them my BP would spike up, resulting in having to resume the full dose.
Re. the gluten: It definitely takes 6 months for your gut to heal from eating it. There are no short cuts!
For those who do not know, I have lost 110 lbs. since 2007 starting Paleo and for the last 2 years in Keto. At 6 ft and 185 lbs for the past 2 years, there should have been no reason for my machine to not be able to work properly. I am quite excited about the possibility of getting back to some sort of life without drugs.
