Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Immersion said:
Have many others noticed a sensitivity to butter? If so what were your symptoms?

In my case, brain fog (and mental lethargy, including a loss of will power). Even ghee does that. The longer I stuck to an all-meat diet, the more the sensitivity increased, until after a bit over two years, I could have neither. (First butter began to give a reaction, then ghee.)
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Laura said:
It can take up to two years to heal the gut. You have to be pretty strict, or entirely strict, and careful, during that period. After your gut is healed, you have more options though you won't want to eat certain things ever again, and other things, only occasionally.

That's IF you can figure out what is wrong. Otherwise, add to that the time to figure it out.

When gut microbes are part of the problem, there can be food sensitivities and even allergies that eventually go away after the microbial problems are resolved. With those kinds of issues, eliminating this food or that may not help -- food may not be the actual problem. There may be a self-sustaining vicious cycle of pathogenic activity that must be identified and broken.

It's really too bad that more doctors aren't able to assist with this kind of health troubleshooting, because it can be quite involved in some cases. Gut healing should not be that complicated, however, for most people.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Megan said:
Laura said:
It can take up to two years to heal the gut. You have to be pretty strict, or entirely strict, and careful, during that period. After your gut is healed, you have more options though you won't want to eat certain things ever again, and other things, only occasionally.

That's IF you can figure out what is wrong. Otherwise, add to that the time to figure it out.

When gut microbes are part of the problem, there can be food sensitivities and even allergies that eventually go away after the microbial problems are resolved. With those kinds of issues, eliminating this food or that may not help -- food may not be the actual problem. There may be a self-sustaining vicious cycle of pathogenic activity that must be identified and broken.

It's really too bad that more doctors aren't able to assist with this kind of health troubleshooting, because it can be quite involved in some cases. Gut healing should not be that complicated, however, for most people.

AMEN
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Nienna said:
Immersion said:
Have many others noticed a sensitivity to butter? If so what were your symptoms?

I cannot eat any kind of dairy at all, not even ghee. I'm allergic to dairy. As far as symptoms, I think there are different symptoms for different people. If you want to know if you are sensitive to butter, I'd say to use only butter as your source of fat at a meal, or in tea, or a cup of broth, or all of the above. That should tell you if it's the butter.

I second that. I cannot handle dairy. It's like "acid in my veins" as i keep telling myself. I've got one more dairy test to go & that's ghee. If i remember, on the tub (in the shop around the corner from me) it says 99.8 for fat/butter fat. The last test months ago for butter had amounts close to that, & i nearly took a week off of work so i'm not optimistic. The advice from Nienna is a good simple method.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

All very good responses. And health troubleshooting for those who have special situations, or have developed particular conditions after years of not knowing what was causing the problems, can be very problematic as Megan points out. It takes close and careful attention to detail and even then, you have to have knowledge to interpret it and we don't have ALL the knowledge by a long shot!

It reminds me of back in the 80s when I was trying to figure out what was at the root of a whole host of physical problems I was having, including severe pains that could become more or less severe with no apparent pattern. So, I was trying to figure out what the patter was to try to identify the trigger. At that point in time, food sensitivities being related to rheumatoid arthritis (which I didn't even know I had) was not on the radar. In fact, there were NO explanations offered in all that I had read and learned.

So, I read a book by some woman who "felt earthquakes". She would have some sort of terrible pain attack a few days before an earthquake and the place where it happened in her body was claimed to be an indicator of the location of the earthquake. (Yeah, weird, I know.) Well, heck, I didn't have much else to go on so it gave me the idea that maybe something in the larger environment was related to my pain. I started keeping track of everything on a calendar and then paying close attention to the phases of the moon, the weather, news about storms and earthquakes and so forth, searching for a connection. I did this for a couple of years and still have the calendars with things like "intense low back pain" "woke up with headache, took blah blah, didn't help" "unable to stand up long enough to cook dinner", that sort of thing. And then all the weather indicators, including temperature, humidity, rain, etc. I was even keeping track of electrical anomalies and sunspots.

Well, there was no connection, that was obvious after awhile.

It never, ever, occurred to me that it could be wheat and dairy. That just wasn't on the radar. But, the fact is, since I have eliminated those two things from my diet, I made a huge leap in not just controlling, but completely eliminating the pain that was destroying my life. There were other things to eliminate too, and other changes to make, but those two things are the ones that made the biggest difference.

Our six months on a strict ketogenic diet was also interesting. Something shifted then; my system changed and I am now able to tolerate a few things better than I was before.

If you look at this article: http://www.sott.net/article/263707-Wonders-of-the-Ketogenic-diet-The-Andersen-and-Stefansson-Eskimo-Experiment

you'll notice that they write: "the traditional Eskimo diet, which is based on fish and includes a small amount of berries and vegetables - not a lot, but enough to keep them out of ketosis most of the time."

I'd say that's where we are now. We no longer worry about staying in ketosis all the time - we did the program for getting the wild DNA kicked into action and it seems to have worked - but we do put ourselves back there from time to time either due to the natural course of events (being busy and unable to eat) or deliberately: a bug is going around and we want to deal with it, or we think we need to "get on the ketosis wagon" for a bit for some reason.

But keep in mind that we have gotten here by going through a whole lot of stages beginning back in 2008 - five years. You have to detox, heal the gut, detox some more, test for your personal issues/problems, find what is tolerable and what is not, and use that as your platform. Some people don't seem to have any wiggle room and have to be very strict in the way that is customized for them.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Laura said:
...If you look at this article: http://www.sott.net/article/263707-Wonders-of-the-Ketogenic-diet-The-Andersen-and-Stefansson-Eskimo-Experiment

you'll notice that they write: "the traditional Eskimo diet, which is based on fish and includes a small amount of berries and vegetables - not a lot, but enough to keep them out of ketosis most of the time."
...

That comment in the article came as a surprise to me, and I suspect that it represents an opinion by the anonymous blogger. You can eat plenty of berries and veggies and remain in ketosis (realizing, of course, that "ketosis" is defined as an arbitrary BOHB level, typically of 0.5 or greater).

Someone raised this issue of accuracy in the blog post comments, but the author did not respond.

I am reviewing the information that I have about the Bellevue experiment and its history, and I have not as yet encountered anything that would even hint that eating berries "kept them out of ketosis." Does someone here know of a reference?
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

You are right, Megan, I think. A few veggies and berries and such should not take a person out of ketosis. I notice in myself that I seem to be able to switch much more easily than in the beginning of this experiment. And there are some days that we have eaten a LOT of carbs because of guests, celebration, the season, and general stress. I say that about stress because, at a certain point, it just seemed a good idea to "throw the wolf a piece of meat" or, in this case, the stressed out system 1 a box of chocolates!
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Laura said:
You are right, Megan, I think. A few veggies and berries and such should not take a person out of ketosis. I notice in myself that I seem to be able to switch much more easily than in the beginning of this experiment. And there are some days that we have eaten a LOT of carbs because of guests, celebration, the season, and general stress. I say that about stress because, at a certain point, it just seemed a good idea to "throw the wolf a piece of meat" or, in this case, the stressed out system 1 a box of chocolates!

I have been including small amounts of strawberries and blueberries picked from our back yard as a raw food source, good for its nutrients and soil-borne bacteria. The ones we grow are giving out now, though. I will still occasionally buy organic ones from not too far away (and in season), when I find them in the store. Blueberry skins are especially good as a source of soluble fiber ("gut bacteria food"), as I recall.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Megan said:
Laura said:
You are right, Megan, I think. A few veggies and berries and such should not take a person out of ketosis. I notice in myself that I seem to be able to switch much more easily than in the beginning of this experiment. And there are some days that we have eaten a LOT of carbs because of guests, celebration, the season, and general stress. I say that about stress because, at a certain point, it just seemed a good idea to "throw the wolf a piece of meat" or, in this case, the stressed out system 1 a box of chocolates!

I have been including small amounts of strawberries and blueberries picked from our back yard as a raw food source, good for its nutrients and soil-borne bacteria. The ones we grow are giving out now, though. I will still occasionally buy organic ones from not too far away (and in season), when I find them in the store. Blueberry skins are especially good as a source of soluble fiber ("gut bacteria food"), as I recall.

I spoke too soon -- found about a half dozen ripe strawberries, and a few small but ripe blueberries. Yum.

When you have a pathogenic vicious cycle going, it represents a positive feedback loop and it oscillates. It's an extremely complex loop, however, involving vast numbers of living organisms, and the oscillations tend to be quite ragged and erratic. Our automatic thought processes, being what they are, try to associate these ragged oscillations with anything and everything, and they succeed. The trouble with that is that most of the time there is actually no major connection between the perceived association(s) and what is actually going on -- a self-powered feedback loop. The resulting frustration can eventually drive you into the ground. I've just about been there.

Using other parts of my mind, however, I have observed that while some symptoms are persistent and seemingly intractable, many other symptoms have cleared up or improved. My low points now are not anywhere near as low as they used to be. I have made a great deal of process in physical terms. Where decades ago I had classic constipation/diarrhea and was diagnosed with IBS, the diarrhea is gone and the constipation is an atypical form that doesn't involve dry/hard stool. It's more of a transport problem now. These kinds of details are very important to notice. From what I can tell, my colon bacteria are in pretty good shape and doing their job. The problem seems to be with what is entering the colon -- insufficiently digested chyme. While that could indicate upper GI digestive organ dysfunction, the lack of upper GI symptoms suggests another possibility -- a pathogenic upper GI infection interfering with the digestive process. This is consistent with the FODMAP sensitivity that I have observed. Details, details, details!!!

I could go on and on, but I won't. If there are other people here struggling with these persistent GI tract issues, we could devote a topic to that (if there isn't one already). I have a few good resources I am working with. One other thing I want to mention, however, is that one of the recommended reading books from the past -- the one about fibromyalgia -- suggested certain supplements for IBS, such as 5HTP. I would NOT mess with any of that, knowing what I know now. When you have a vicious cycle going, the pathogens are the cause and the neurotransmitter/hormone imbalances are among the effects. You fix the latter by dispensing with the former. Any other approach is not a good idea IMO.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Maybe it's something to ask the C's about? It seems like a lingering question we could use some help on. OSIT.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Interesting article just published online - unfortunately I only have the abstract. I am trying to get the full article from the author, will publish it here if successful.

Future Oncol. 2013 Jul;9(7):959-76. doi: 10.2217/fon.13.31

Selectively starving cancer cells through dietary manipulation: methods and clinical implications.

Simone BA, Champ CE, Rosenberg AL, Berger AC, Monti DA, Dicker AP, Simone NL.
Department of Radiation Oncology, Kimmel Cancer Center & Jefferson Medical College of Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, PA, USA. nicole.simone@jeffersonhospital.org.

Abstract
As the link between obesity and metabolic syndrome and cancer becomes clearer, the need to determine the optimal way to incorporate dietary manipulation in the treatment of cancer patients becomes increasingly important. Metabolic-based therapies, such as caloric restriction, intermittent fasting and a ketogenic diet, have the ability to decrease the incidence of spontaneous tumors and slow the growth of primary tumors, and may have an effect on distant metastases in animal models. Despite the abundance of preclinical data demonstrating the benefit of dietary modification for cancer, to date there are few clinical trials targeting diet as an intervention for cancer patients. We hypothesize that this may be due, in part, to the fact that several different types of diet modification exist with no clear recommendations regarding the optimal method. This article will delineate three commonly used methods of dietary manipulation to assess the potential of each as a regimen for cancer therapy.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Psalehesost said:
Immersion said:
Have many others noticed a sensitivity to butter? If so what were your symptoms?

In my case, brain fog (and mental lethargy, including a loss of will power). Even ghee does that. The longer I stuck to an all-meat diet, the more the sensitivity increased, until after a bit over two years, I could have neither. (First butter began to give a reaction, then ghee.)

I am thinking that the same is true for me as well with regards to butter. Besides the brain fog and lack of coordination, I also had excess salivation. The problem is the reactions are mild, but it really interferes with concentration and attention. Bone broth with lard seems to have the opposite effect, giving great mental clarity.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Is there any truth in the link from this article:

http://www.sott.net/article/264230-Little-girls-high-fat-ketogenic-diet-helps-her-speak-first-words

to this article? It seems to be the opposite of what is advocated on this thread. However I am no expert and my science has a long way to catch up. :

http://www.andrewkimblog.com/2013/01/carbon-dioxide-glycation-and-protective.html

Carbon dioxide, Glycation, and the Protective Effects of Fructose



Glycation processes and the potentially protective effects of an intensely active metabolic rate are topics that have been referenced on this blog frequently. Glycation and cross-linking of molecules in the body contribute to the complications of diabetes and the changes in tissues seen in aging. A salient consequence of these processes is the stiffening and loss of functioning of tissues in the body—including the skin, where a major substrate for glycation processes exists: collagen.

Collagen is not only found in the skin, but also in the arteries, cartilage, and bones. So, the health of the skin (its rigidness, degree of wrinkling, etc.) can serve as a (rough) barometer of the glycation processes that occur in the body.

With age cross-linked proteins accumulate in tissues throughout the body. This is a consequence of a few things. For one, the turnover of proteins is decreased. Two, the synthesis of proteins, despite the availability of amino acids, is, to some extent, impaired. Three, fat is oxidized in preference to glucose, and as a result less carbon dioxide is produced and oxidative stress is promoted, thereby creating the conditions for high rates of AGE formation. And four, energy production is diminished due to the cumulative damages incurred to mitochondrial respiratory protein complexes.

A protective factor lost as a consequence of the processes listed above is carbon dioxide. Dissolved in blood mainly as bicarbonate, carbon dioxide has a myriad of known functions in the body, mainly by way of forming carboxylated adducts with other macromolecules. Some of the reactions that carbon dioxide participates in are listed below.

As with other enzymes that employ biotin as a cofactor, pyruvate carboxylase (the first step of gluconeogenesis) uses carbon dioxide as a substrate– namely, its activated form carboxyphosphate–to carboxylate pyruvate to oxaloacetate.

The enzyme catalyzing the first step in de novo synthesis of fats, acetyl CoA carboxylase, uses carbon dioxide, forming malonyl CoA. The formation of malonyl CoA inhibits fatty acid oxidation and promotes glucose oxidation and insulin sensitivity. The activity of acetyl CoA carboxylase is depressed in diabetic hearts (even in the presence of saturating concentrations of acetyl CoA) and insulin resistant animals.

Blood clotting proteins, for activity, require carboxylation of their glutamate residues, otherwise, interactions between clotting proteins (that is mediated by positively charged calcium cations interacting with the negative charges on the carboxylate group of glutamate residues) could not occur and so the clotting cascade would not be able to move forward.


Carbon dioxide is produced in the process of energy generating metabolism. The amount of carbon dioxide produced in relation to the amount of oxygen consumed is the respiratory quotient (RQ). Generally experimental evidence bears out the supposition that sugar oxidation produces a higher RQ than fat oxidation. The stress metabolism, in stark contrast, wastes carbon dioxide.

Total energy expenditure is the sum total of the resting energy expenditure and activity energy expenditure. The resting energy expenditure contributes about 60 to 80 percent of the total energy expenditure.

Declining with age, activity energy expenditure is the energy expended from volitional movements (i.e., exercise) and diet-induced thermogenesis.

Aging, obesity, and diabetes are all associated with a lower thermogenic response to food ingestion. However, as mentioned previously on this blog, fructose can raise the energy expended and carbon dioxide produced after eating to near normal in diabetics.

The thermogenic effect of sugars can be estimated, theoretically, by the ratio of ATP synthesized to ATP hydrolyzed. From this rough analysis alone, compared to an equal amount of glucose, fructose generates more heat and produces more carbon dioxide in the process.1,2

The permissive effect on glucose use that fructose has protects against glycation processes. For instance, fructose activates the enzyme complex PDH that in turn prevents the accumulation of triose phosphates, substrates for glycation reactions, and allows for glucose to be metabolized oxidatively.3 Fructose also supplies pyruvate, which is hypothesized to, via competition, block glycation reactions.

Furthermore, fructose decreases the levels of the proinflammatory peptide, leptin, which is, among other hormones, secreted in excess in diabetes and obesity, and it’s clear that leptin is a hormone of the immune system as much as it is a hormone of metabolism.4 Fructose, compared to glucose, also decreases insulin and blood free fatty acid concentrations, indicating an enhanced sensitivity to the hormone insulin; these effects are more pronounced in people who are insulin resistant.5

The largest benefit with regard to the main interest of this post concerns the carbon dioxide raising effect of fructose. High levels of carbon dioxide, via carboxylation, protect glycation labile amino acids and lipids. Thus, the equilibrium in cells shifts to favor amine group carboxylation, rather than glycosylation, staving off the initial step in AGE formation (i.e., Schiff base formation).

Even though it could glycate proteins in the body, fructose is much less reactive than some of the oxidative products derived from polyunsaturated fats. Fructose is also found in the blood and in cells at very low concentrations, orders of magnitude less than glucose, because fructose is rapidly used or converted to other substrates by cells. Upon the ingestion of fructose, for instance, about 10 percent of it is converted to glucose by the intestinal cells, and the rest is converted to glucose, lactate, glycogen, and carbon dioxide by the liver. Thus, fructose rarely rises by more than 0.5 to 1 percent after ingesting even high doses of it.

Interestingly, high rates of fat oxidation, by producing large amounts of mitochondrial reactive oxygen species (e.g., superoxide), uncouple glucose oxidation from ATP formation, via UCP-2, in the pancreas. ATP is depleted as a result, and this keeps the voltage-gated calcium channels closed, the opening of which is required for the secretion of insulin containing granules from β-cells of the pancreatic islets. By removing the inhibition on fatty acid mobilization, this uncoupling effect reinforces the body wide insulin resistant and inflammatory states.6,7

On a final note, there was a concern raised by the reader about fructose malabsorption. Briefly, fructose malabsorption is greatly attenuated when glucose is co-ingested with fructose, as in fruit and sucrose.8 Also, tolerance should develop to fructose over time, on the order of days, such that more and more fructose could be eaten without experiencing adverse digestive effects.9 (The evidence for this is, however, is circumstantial.)

In a word fructose–or even better sucrose–could be protective against the complications of diabetes, obesity, and aging. A simple recipe of sugar and baking soda, dissolved in water, can significantly, and rapidly, raise carbon dioxide levels.


References

1. Schaefer, E. J., Gleason, J. A. & Dansinger, M. L. Dietary Fructose and Glucose Differentially Affect Lipid and Glucose Homeostasis 1 – 3. 1257–1262 (2009).doi:10.3945/jn.108.098186.WHO
2. Tappy, L. et al. Comparison of thermogenic effect of fructose and glucose in normal humans. The American journal of physiology 250, E718–24 (1986).
3. Park, O. J. et al. Mechanisms of fructose-induced hypertriglyceridaemia in the rat. Activation of hepatic pyruvate dehydrogenase through inhibition of pyruvate dehydrogenase kinase. The Biochemical journal 282 ( Pt 3, 753–7 (1992).
4. Matarese, G. et al. Leptin accelerates autoimmune diabetes in female NOD mice. Diabetes 51, 1356–61 (2002).
5. Teff, K. L. et al. Endocrine and metabolic effects of consuming fructose- and glucose-sweetened beverages with meals in obese men and women: influence of insulin resistance on plasma triglyceride responses. The Journal of clinical endocrinology and metabolism 94, 1562–9 (2009).
6. Chan, C. B. et al. Increased uncoupling protein-2 levels in beta-cells are associated with impaired glucose-stimulated insulin secretion: mechanism of action. Diabetes 50, 1302–10 (2001).
7. Zhang, C. Y. et al. Uncoupling protein-2 negatively regulates insulin secretion and is a major link between obesity, beta cell dysfunction, and type 2 diabetes. Cell 105, 745–55 (2001).
8. Riby, J. E., Fujisawa, T. & Kretchmer, N. Fructose absorption. The American journal of clinical nutrition 58, 748S–753S (1993).
9. Beyer, P. L., Caviar, E. M. & McCallum, R. W. Fructose intake at current levels in the United States may cause gastrointestinal distress in normal adults. Journal of the American Dietetic Association 105, 1559–66 (2005).
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

happyliza said:
Is there any truth in the link from this article:

http://www.sott.net/article/264230-Little-girls-high-fat-ketogenic-diet-helps-her-speak-first-words

to this article? It seems to be the opposite of what is advocated on this thread. However I am no expert and my science has a long way to catch up. :

http://www.andrewkimblog.com/2013/01/carbon-dioxide-glycation-and-protective.html

Carbon dioxide, Glycation, and the Protective Effects of Fructose

...

It sounds likely to me. Nora Gedgaudas learned of a similar story about someone with (if I remember correctly) Down's syndrome that improved radically when her parents tried the Primal Mind, Primal Body approach.

Andrew Kim certainly has some interesting observations (I have been following him for some time now). My caution with him is that he argues from biochemistry, and the way that biochemical "facts" play out in the everyday world is often not well understood.

I do think that those that say that sucrose and fructose in their natural, untampered forms are not to be feared are on the right track, and that Dr. Lustig and others in the "sugar is pure poison" camp have overlooked something important. We have heard here (and I have even repeated it myself) the claim that fructose turns into fat in the liver. Other information I have encountered since then indicates that that is not an accurate perspective and that, from tracer experiments, the largest fraction of fructose metabolizes to glucose.

What is probably more important to realize is that glucose is a vital nutrient without which we would die (see 1st story above), and that eating naturally-grown foods (tubers, fruits and such) containing sugar and starch isn't going to kill you. It will reduce your ketone levels, however. There is a tradeoff: the less starch and sugar you consume, the harder your liver has to work to produce glucose but the higher your ketones will be (assuming normal metabolism, iron load, etc.). If you liver is already taxed from other problems, however, you might actually want to consider giving it a break by eating some extra carbohydrate, especially if your immune system -- a system that depends upon glucose -- is also under stress.

If you are metabolically damaged -- obesity, metabolic syndrome, diabetes being common examples -- then consuming very much sugar and starch may be problematic, not so much because sugar (including fructose) directly causes the damage but because a damaged metabolism may do inappropriate things with sugar. The form that the sugar or starch takes (e.g. blueberries vs. Twinkies) and the state of the health of the person consuming it must be taken into account.

Among those that do not recommend KD the person I find most interesting is Danny Roddy (dannyroddy.com). He attempts to take a "bioenergetic" view of disease and health, and he invokes not only Andrew Kim but also Gerald Pollack ("structured water") and Gilbert Ling, names that will be familiar to some here on the forum. I am not convinced of what he is saying (and sometimes what he says is more questions than answers anyway, which is a good thing), but I think it is important to be aware of these kinds of alternative views. That is why I follow him and Andrew Kim (they collaborate to some degree).
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Megan said:
happyliza said:
Is there any truth in the link from this article:

http://www.sott.net/article/264230-Little-girls-high-fat-ketogenic-diet-helps-her-speak-first-words

to this article? It seems to be the opposite of what is advocated on this thread. However I am no expert and my science has a long way to catch up. :

http://www.andrewkimblog.com/2013/01/carbon-dioxide-glycation-and-protective.html

Carbon dioxide, Glycation, and the Protective Effects of Fructose

...

It sounds likely to me. Nora Gedgaudas learned of a similar story about someone with (if I remember correctly) Down's syndrome that improved radically when her parents tried the Primal Mind, Primal Body approach.

Andrew Kim certainly has some interesting observations (I have been following him for some time now). My caution with him is that he argues from biochemistry, and the way that biochemical "facts" play out in the everyday world is often not well understood.

I do think that those that say that sucrose and fructose in their natural, untampered forms are not to be feared are on the right track, and that Dr. Lustig and others in the "sugar is pure poison" camp have overlooked something important. We have heard here (and I have even repeated it myself) the claim that fructose turns into fat in the liver. Other information I have encountered since then indicates that that is not an accurate perspective and that, from tracer experiments, the largest fraction of fructose metabolizes to glucose.

What is probably more important to realize is that glucose is a vital nutrient without which we would die (see 1st story above), and that eating naturally-grown foods (tubers, fruits and such) containing sugar and starch isn't going to kill you. It will reduce your ketone levels, however. There is a tradeoff: the less starch and sugar you consume, the harder your liver has to work to produce glucose but the higher your ketones will be (assuming normal metabolism, iron load, etc.). If you liver is already taxed from other problems, however, you might actually want to consider giving it a break by eating some extra carbohydrate, especially if your immune system -- a system that depends upon glucose -- is also under stress.

If you are metabolically damaged -- obesity, metabolic syndrome, diabetes being common examples -- then consuming very much sugar and starch may be problematic, not so much because sugar (including fructose) directly causes the damage but because a damaged metabolism may do inappropriate things with sugar. The form that the sugar or starch takes (e.g. blueberries vs. Twinkies) and the state of the health of the person consuming it must be taken into account.

Among those that do not recommend KD the person I find most interesting is Danny Roddy (dannyroddy.com). He attempts to take a "bioenergetic" view of disease and health, and he invokes not only Andrew Kim but also Gerald Pollack ("structured water") and Gilbert Ling, names that will be familiar to some here on the forum. I am not convinced of what he is saying (and sometimes what he says is more questions than answers anyway, which is a good thing), but I think it is important to be aware of these kinds of alternative views. That is why I follow him and Andrew Kim (they collaborate to some degree).

Megan,

Thanks for your post - very interesting and stimulating as always.

I have the feeling that we haven't unearthed the whole truth about nutrition. I think that KD is probably one of the most adapted diets for our body that we presently know. Optimal carbohydrate levels probably vary between individuals, between seasons and for other unknown reasons, maybe even over a short period of time. I think that everyone needs to constantly experiment to adapt carb levels to optimize well-being and that one probably cannot make absolute recommendations to others. I also think that if you have a particular problem or illness, this again may modify what your body needs.

I for one don't tolerate any fruit or other carb-laden stuff. Small amounts kick me out of ketosis double-quick. Also slightly higher protein levels (over approximately 1 g/kg). But I seem to be someone with a very low carb threshold.

On top of that there is the spiritual dimension of "feeding" and "nourishment"'which probably does contribute - maybe even massively - to our "nutritional status". This aspect is of course very difficult to Handel, very vague, but what comes to mind is Gurdjieff's substances in various "refinement" that nourish the body in an optimal way, or not.

And in regard to glycation I think that one has to try to reduce glycation as much as possible, once a person is below the threshold of glycation (and this again is probably individual) the benefits of going further low-carb might be a bit less - in a "diminishing return" kind of sense. The amount of glucose absolutely needed in the body is very small and easily produced by the liver, so I am not sure if a higher degree of KD is really a strain on the system, given that energy efficiency is drastically increased. People experience problems going keto may have other things that they struggle with that might prevent them of reaping the full benefits of a KD - heavy metal toxicity comes to mind as an example.

But as said before, in the end I believe that everyone needs to tweak his or her own diet to get the optimal result, and this will be different for every person up to a degree.
 

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