Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yupo said:
I am having some trouble with this delightful diet: Weight gain.
I have gone from about 112lb to about 150lb. Clothes don't fit and I am getting pretty uncomfortable, body size-wise. I remain in strong ketosis, according to urine dip sticks.
FYI my weight history has been all over the place.
About 6 years ago I went from 238 to 112 using hcg diet. That's a size 22 to a size 4. I'm 5'4", small in frame. I maintained pretty easily as long as I stayed off carbs.
I very recently (2-3 weeks ago) added a bit of Xylitol in my coffee as I heard it had some anti-parasitic effects.
Help? Anyone else having this problem? I feel great otherwise, just getting scared/concerned.

Just wondering about a few things: What is your diet like? How much fat are you getting with each meal? Do you eat dairy? Do you feel satiated all day after having a big breakfast of bacon and sausage?
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

kanader said:
Below are my latest reading with the meter. These were taken 1-2 hours before or after a meal.

ket: 0.3mmol/L
Gly:5.4mmol/L
09.11.2015 10:00

ket: 0.7mmol/L
Gly: 5.2mmol/L
09.11.2015 15:30

Ket: 0.9mmol/L
Gly: 4.6mmol/L
10.11.2015 12:07

Hmmm... those ketone readings are pretty low. 0.9 isn't bad, but 0.3 isn't technically considered ketosis, if I'm not mistaken. The ideal is between 1.5 and 3 mmol/L. What does Gly mean? Is that blood glucose?

I'm wondering if maybe your protein intake is too high. If you eat too much protein, insulin stays high and ketones will stay low. Are you limiting your protein in any way?
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

My diet is 75-80% fat, including some dairy. The remaining is split between protein and carbohydrates, according to pie charts. I don't care for pork or eggs, so this isn't happening at breakfast. I have coffee, cream and Unjury protein powder, plus a few herbs/spices. Basically I throw in a variation of the tumeric spice ball (recipe somewhere on the forum).
Lunch might be seafood of some sort cooked in butter, or tuna, mayo and chopped vegetables plus more coffee and cream.
Dinner might be a dip made of spiced meat and cream cheese, eaten with a spoon.
Any vegetables are cooked to a crisp in coconut oil and topped with chopped nuts.
Suggestions are welcome.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yupo said:
My diet is 75-80% fat, including some dairy. The remaining is split between protein and carbohydrates, according to pie charts. I don't care for pork or eggs, so this isn't happening at breakfast. I have coffee, cream and Unjury protein powder, plus a few herbs/spices. Basically I throw in a variation of the tumeric spice ball (recipe somewhere on the forum).
Lunch might be seafood of some sort cooked in butter, or tuna, mayo and chopped vegetables plus more coffee and cream.
Dinner might be a dip made of spiced meat and cream cheese, eaten with a spoon.
Any vegetables are cooked to a crisp in coconut oil and topped with chopped nuts.
Suggestions are welcome.
Hi Yupo,

It looks like you are getting most of your fat intake from dairy, so that may be the culprit. Ditching the dairy, including butter for a time would help. The casein in dairy can cause inflammation in the gut which will cause problems like weight gain.

As far as the protein powder, the flavored ones contain sucralose. That stuff is bad news. (See links below) The unflavored one they carry has whey protein which is a derivative of dairy.

Adding more animal protein (instead of the powder) and animal fats would help too. May I ask why you don't care for pork? Is it an aversion thing or do you have a reaction to it? I ask because had an aversion to it along with an allergic reaction for a period of time when I was first doing the paleo, then keto diet. I can eat it now that my gut has healed up some.

Also, we have a thread on the Ultra Simple diet and the Ultra Mind Solution book. Essentially, the book and diet cover what foods can cause problems for us, including inflammation. They were a step on the way in the diet research we did here. You can do a search for elimination diet on the forum too and get more info. Eliminating foods that you might be reacting to will help a lot, I think. :)

Sucralose:
http://www.sott.net/article/274518-Splenda-linked-to-diabetes-IBS-and-cancer
http://www.sott.net/article/175666-New-Study-of-Splenda-Reveals-Shocking-Information-About-Potential-Harmful-Effects
http://www.sott.net/article/278945-Splendas-neurotoxic-properties
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The pork issue is primarily Islamic. I do like bacon, but only rarely eat it. I was using some lard to make tortillas last year, but I'm totally off any kind of bread/grain now.
I read the Ultra Simple Diet material on a recommendation, but I was a bit confused by what I thought was too much carbohydrate.
I did not know about the sucralose in Unjury. I think I read that as sucrose. UGH!
The absolute worst I felt was when I tried to do 50g of this protein for breakfast the other day (after listening to Jack Kruse material).
Wow, it sure solved the appetite issue for the day. :(
I'm going off the Unjury.

In general, I feel well on high fat. I'm a lot happier and much more productive.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yupo, as Menrva said, you might want to do a search on the forum for elimination diet and not go strictly by the Ultra Simple Diet guidelines (as there are a number of things that could be a problem with that - it's quite old for how the diet and health approach evolved over the years). The basic approach to an elimination protocol is eliminate one food at a time for a couple of weeks and then eat lots of it to see if there's negative reactions.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yupo said:
My diet is 75-80% fat, including some dairy. The remaining is split between protein and carbohydrates, according to pie charts. I don't care for pork or eggs, so this isn't happening at breakfast. I have coffee, cream and Unjury protein powder, plus a few herbs/spices. Basically I throw in a variation of the tumeric spice ball (recipe somewhere on the forum).
Lunch might be seafood of some sort cooked in butter, or tuna, mayo and chopped vegetables plus more coffee and cream.
Dinner might be a dip made of spiced meat and cream cheese, eaten with a spoon.
Any vegetables are cooked to a crisp in coconut oil and topped with chopped nuts.

Suggestions are welcome.
One other suggestion about foods causing inflammation is nuts. If I eat nuts, I have immediate inflammation and can almost feel myself gaining weight. Fwiw.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Yupo said:
The pork issue is primarily Islamic. I do like bacon, but only rarely eat it. I was using some lard to make tortillas last year, but I'm totally off any kind of bread/grain now.
I read the Ultra Simple Diet material on a recommendation, but I was a bit confused by what I thought was too much carbohydrate.
I did not know about the sucralose in Unjury. I think I read that as sucrose. UGH!
The absolute worst I felt was when I tried to do 50g of this protein for breakfast the other day (after listening to Jack Kruse material).
Wow, it sure solved the appetite issue for the day. :(
I'm going off the Unjury.

In general, I feel well on high fat. I'm a lot happier and much more productive.

The Ultra Simple diet is much more carby. Ideally, you would want to incorporate the elimination diet with the paleo diet. Eliminating foods that cause reactions while you are healing your brain and your gut doing the paleo, then keto diet. It's a matter of finding out what foods you can tolerate.

See the post below from the Life Without Bread thread:

Laura said:
If you have read the whole thread here, you would have read about numerous people going through this because of changing too much too fast. Yes, it can be done if you want to get on with it rapidly, but you have to know how to compensate.

Trying to change too much too fast.

READ THE ENTIRE THREAD AND THE RECOMMENDED BOOKS BEFORE INSTITUTING CHANGES IN YOUR LIFE OR THE LIVES OF YOUR FAMILY!!!!!!!!!!

Having said that, here is a simple plan that I came up with for a friend of mine.


Step one, Day 1:
remove all gluten from your diet. All grains contain some amounts of gluten. The worst is wheat and the least bad is rice. So you can keep rice for a period of transition, say 10 days. After 10 days, ALL grains should be eliminated totally. Not even so-called “gluten free” breads are safe. This is hard, of course, but you can fill the gap by eating more vegetables and meats. Eat your vegetables with plenty of real butter on them (no additives). Eat meats with fat on them and eat the fat. This is an essential part of the cure. Start your day with bacon and eggs or ham and eggs and eat all you want.

Do this for TEN DAYS and then move to step two.

Step two, day 11: After 10 days, cut out rice and all beans (except haricot vert) completely. You should now be having no grains at all, in any form, in your diet. Read labels on everything. If there is a single word pertaining to a grain product, do NOT eat it. Continue to eat plenty of vegetables and meats with all the fat and added butter. Do not use cooking sprays, cook with duck fat.

Do this additional step for the next TEN DAYS. Then move to step three.


Step three, day 21: Remove all sugars from the diet. This includes all fruits. Do not replace this with any foods containing artificial sweeteners because they are excitotoxins and cause great harm. The only sweeteners allowed are xylitol, sorbitol, stevia. No honey, no corn syrup, NO forms of sugar at all. You can drink tea or coffee with xylitol and that will help with cravings. Increase your fat intake. The fat on beef, pork, duck, is good. You can continue to eat most vegetables. (Make sure that you use only olive oil and vinegar on salads; no commercial dressings.

Do this additional step for TEN DAYS.

Step four, day 31: Remove all dairy products except butter from the diet. All nuts, too. At this point, you will be eating only meat and vegetables. You should eat more cooked vegetables than raw (salad), and eat them with plenty of butter.

I've left dairy to this point because it can sometimes ease the issues that removing gluten creates.

Step five, day 41: Stop coffee; you can have green or black or mint teas. Gradually reduce the quantity of vegetables that you eat and fill the gap with meat and meat fats. This means that if you eat a piece of meat, it should have almost as much fat on it as lean. You can eat as much meat as you want, but be sparing with vegetables, giving preference to cooked ones over raw.

As you make your way through those dietary changes, you can start increasing fats (ideally animal fats). Fat bombs are good too, made from coconut cream. They are delicious and high in fat. :D
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

OK, I will d/c coffee, dairy and nuts.
I have been high fat/low carb for a long time.
I ate 1/4 apple last night. Knocked me out of ketosis. :(
Lots of reading to do.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

dugdeep said:
kanader said:
Below are my latest reading with the meter. These were taken 1-2 hours before or after a meal.

ket: 0.3mmol/L
Gly:5.4mmol/L
09.11.2015 10:00

ket: 0.7mmol/L
Gly: 5.2mmol/L
09.11.2015 15:30

Ket: 0.9mmol/L
Gly: 4.6mmol/L
10.11.2015 12:07

Hmmm... those ketone readings are pretty low. 0.9 isn't bad, but 0.3 isn't technically considered ketosis, if I'm not mistaken. The ideal is between 1.5 and 3 mmol/L. What does Gly mean? Is that blood glucose?

I'm wondering if maybe your protein intake is too high. If you eat too much protein, insulin stays high and ketones will stay low. Are you limiting your protein in any way?

Hi dugdeep,
yes Gly is for glucose and yes again should lower my protein intake. That's probably my mistake. Thinking that I'm eating enough fat in one meal, and then having too much protein at the next...I really need to be more carefull about it. I will try to correct this in the next few days/weeks and will monitor my reading again. Thanks for the input, I still have a lot to learn !

kanader
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Menrva said:
It looks like you are getting most of your fat intake from dairy, so that may be the culprit. Ditching the dairy, including butter for a time would help. The casein in dairy can cause inflammation in the gut which will cause problems like weight gain.

The evils of dairy actually go much further than gut inflammation. It's worth reading this thread in full and the Life Without Bread thread which discuss in detail the harmful effects of dairy. Below are some more sources.

http://www.sott.net/article/225467-Why-Milk-Is-So-Evil
http://www.sott.net/article/189794-Milk-Protein-Linked-to-Autism-Schizophrenia-Diabetes-and-Heart-Disease
http://www.sott.net/article/288175-Wheat-cows-milk-disrupt-DNA-expression-antioxidant-status
http://www.sott.net/article/302146-Is-dairy-sabotaging-your-gluten-free-healing
http://www.sott.net/article/288783-Not-so-shocking-New-study-indicates-everything-you-thought-you-knew-about-milk-is-wrong
http://www.sott.net/article/288156-Study-finds-milk-consumption-linked-to-bone-fractures-and-increased-mortality
http://www.sott.net/article/231195-Its-not-all-white-The-cocktail-of-up-to-20-chemicals-in-a-glass-of-milk
http://www.sott.net/article/144687-Origins-of-Agriculture-Did-Civilization-Arise-to-Deliver-a-Fix-
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26327.msg315334.html#msg315334
https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,22916.msg280541.html#msg280541
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm replying to an old post here. I have a bad habit of writing out posts when offline and saving them to the PC without posting them.

no-man's-land said:
Recently I came across a detailed analysis about the content of bone broth. It's from a guy who wanted to figure out, what's really inside his bone broth. So he made some protocols with different cooking time and content, took samples and brought it to different labs to let them test whats inside. You can find the details here:

_http://www.alive.com/health/bone-broth-analysis-reader-research

One of our readers sent in some incredible research on bone broth and its mineral content. Find out the fascinating results here.

Reader Lawrence Dubois, manager of Salt Spring Natureworks, contacted us with some very interesting personal research on bone broth.

Bone broth is widely believed to be a mineral rich food, yet published research to back up the belief is hard to find. Because of this, Lawrence conducted his own series of experiments where he made different batches of bone broth and had the samples analyzed.

It’s incredibly interesting stuff and we’ve included his complete and unabridged findings here. If you’d like to discuss this research further, please leave a comment below or contact Lawrence directly at bonebrothinfo@gmail.com.
Lawrence Dubois

Bone Broth Analyzed

Investigation and Discussion

The Premise:

Bone broth is one of the most mineral rich foods you can make right? OK, I’ll buy that. I’ve read it in many threads online and in many written publications discussing nutrition based on traditional, ancestral, whole-food, paleo, primal and low-carb concepts. Common sense dictates that it should be true, as after all, the process of making bone broth essentially consists of dissolving bones in water (at least partially). Well, if that’s truly the case then where is the evidence?

I looked everywhere, but couldn’t find a single stich of information that wasn’t simply inference or conjecture (i.e. “Bone broth is rich in minerals, especially calcium and phosphorus”). Where are the facts, the hard numbers? Is it possible that the idea of bone broth being rich in minerals is so credible that nobody’s ever bothered to prove it? Has no one been curious to see just how many minerals there are in bone broth? I know I have.

I really wanted to scratch this itch, but even Google wasn’t helping me. Admittedly I am a bit of a data freak; I like knowing the details. That isn’t to say that I’m a “doubting Thomas”; more like “curious George”. I was already a believer in bone broth. I consumed it regularly and promoted it to others. I already assumed that there must be a cornucopia of unique health promoting compounds in bone broth, from the obvious minerals and gelatin to possibly more mysterious and elusive compounds like trace minerals, nucleotides, sulfates, long-chain fatty acids, fat soluble vitamins, co-factors, growth factors, glycosaminoglycans and a range of other potential molecules coming from such precious stores as marrow, connective tissue, bone and even spinal cord (if using back- bone segments).

While I didn’t need convincing, I still wanted numbers and values. If not to prove the concept, then at least to compare bone broth to other foods and otherwise satisfy my curiosity. I was left with no other choice than to do my own tests. And so it began.


What really surprised me was not the fact that bone broth seems to be rather low in minerals (compared to other food), but the very high protein content. After 8 hours of cooking, he got almost 50g of protein per liter and after 24 hours cooking, even almost 120g protein per liter. That's a whole lot for a ketogenic diet I think.

Unfortunately, the site seems to have some kind of bug because the last time I checked it, there were nice and tidy charts in it where the numbers easily could be compared. Well, the data is still there, but a bit scattered and hard to read.

Thanks for the info on the bone broth. Here is what I do:

My marrow bones are about 1-2.5 pounds. I put about half a gallon of water and pressure cook them for 3 hours. I get a nice gel on the first batch, and when I double cook them the next week I have to add 2 Tbsp of gelatin powder to gel it. I put a quart/liter of the broth in a jar and toss the rest. I strain it and dont use the marrow or meaty parts.

I've always considered the broth to be 10% protein, as I think I read that somewhere. I usually eat a can of sardines for dinner and the broth. The sardines are about 24g of protein, so I probably overdo the limit with the added broth. I eat about 100g of broth. The quart jar seems to be about 5 100g servings, so half a kilogram total.

Even with this little going over 25g of protein, I've never felt like I go out of ketosis. I can tell when I overeat protein, as I get dizzying brain fog and an off feeling. The same with carbs. I think it's ok to go over the MTor limit if you're not concerned about always being in cell repair mode.

But if that data is correct, then I'm eating less protein than I thought. I only cook for 3 hours, so I guess that makes about 25g per quart jar. Which is about 2.5g of protein per 100g serving. By the way, I always shoot for twice the amount of fat to protein + carbs per meal, which equals 50-60g of fat. That way, I reach the 3:1 ratio of fat to carbs + protein. Of course, it is better to go over that minimum, as was common for various treatments for illness.

PS: Now I usually add a little more water and make 2 quarts of broth and just toss the bones. So one batch lasts two weeks and the following week I don't have to cook broth.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I just wanted to give an update on my experience of doing the low carb paleo diet not Keto for the past 3 and half months. I have noticed some improvements but nothing significant. I'm still am having mild diarrhea/flatulence and am thinking about going back to eating high carb. I think my body cant make the transition for whatever reason.

Of late I have been having more and more sugar like 50-60grams a day, mostly from the dark chocolate while trying to keep the carbs down/eat paleo but the cravings over well me. Probably unhealthy to have the much sugar, along with eating high fat.

I will be going to India for a couple a of weeks in a Jan so am thinking about eating high carb for a while and seeing how I fare and then decide if I want to come back to eating low carb/paleo when I come back from India. I will however keep doing the Iodine treatment and stay away from the major evil foods like wheat, etc.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

AD said:
Of late I have been having more and more sugar like 50-60grams a day, mostly from the dark chocolate while trying to keep the carbs down/eat paleo but the cravings over well me. Probably unhealthy to have the much sugar, along with eating high fat.
Sugar is bad, but if you are keeping it under 60 grams per day total, I think that is what Linus Pauling recommended as the upper limit. We have learned a lot since then, of course. If that is your total carb intake, you are probably doing fine according to some low carb diets. High fat, high carb diets are really bad.
I will be going to India for a couple a of weeks in a Jan so am thinking about eating high carb for a while and seeing how I fare and then decide if I want to come back to eating low carb/paleo when I come back from India.
I would not go back on carbs. But putting myself in your position and country (India), I would try for a diet of complex carbs and minimal protein and fats. Protein intake determines your anabolic/catabolic (see MTOR) mode. Your probably want catabolic. So your Indian diet should probably be mainly carbs. Also note that dietary restriction is associated with health and longevity. This is probably because many "western diseases" are associated with excessive carb intake. Indians probably don't suffer from too much food.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

AD said:
I just wanted to give an update on my experience of doing the low carb paleo diet not Keto for the past 3 and half months. I have noticed some improvements but nothing significant. I'm still am having mild diarrhea/flatulence and am thinking about going back to eating high carb. I think my body cant make the transition for whatever reason.

Of late I have been having more and more sugar like 50-60grams a day, mostly from the dark chocolate while trying to keep the carbs down/eat paleo but the cravings over well me. Probably unhealthy to have the much sugar, along with eating high fat.

That is actually quite a large amount of sugar, and to get 50-60 grams from dark chocolate (75%+) means you must be eating a lot of chocolate, like at least a 100g bar a day. Chocolate can cause diarrhoea for some people, especially in large amounts, and I've found that any sugar is basically fuel for certain infections.
 
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