Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Nathan]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Great find, anarkist!

I remember when Nora's books were first discussed on this forum (perhaps a Primal thread, before the Ketogenic thread?), so I'm glad you shared this here. She really goes beyond the official Paleo regime -- one that doesn't really encourage high fat at all -- into Ketogenic. I also laughed when I noticed the little mention in the blurb about consuming fewer calories overall, which is clearly there to appeal to the "health and wellness" readership, a market that is proving to be very popular now.

I'll be picking this one up for sure.

 

[anartist]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Great find, anarkist!

I remember when Nora's books were first discussed on this forum (perhaps a Primal thread, before the Ketogenic thread?), so I'm glad you shared this here. She really goes beyond the official Paleo regime -- one that doesn't really encourage high fat at all -- into Ketogenic. I also laughed when I noticed the little mention in the blurb about consuming fewer calories overall, which is clearly there to appeal to the "health and wellness" readership, a market that is proving to be very popular now.

I'll be picking this one up for sure.

glad to help Nathan.
Oddly enough while I was at my favourite independent bookstore today I looked up Noras book to put an order in for it (apparently available Jan 2017) when I noticed another book already out, by Ron Schmid, co-authored by Nora and Sally Fallon
Primal Nutrition | 3rd Edition | Paperback
Ron Schmid | Sally Fallon-Morrell | Nora Gedgaudas
Inner Traditions/Bear & Company
Health & Fitness / Diet & Nutrition - Nutrition / Longevity / Social Science / Customs & Traditions
Published Sep 28, 2015

the amazon write up says:
Explores how the traditional foods of ancient cultures can naturally help prevent and treat degenerative disease and chronic conditions
• Examines the protective nutrients inherent in primal foods, such as wild seafood, grass-fed meat, and raw dairy, explaining how they differ from Western refined foods
• Explains how to create your own commonsense primal diet, tailored to your specific needs and conditions, such as allergies, eczema, arthritis, and even cancer
• Builds upon the work of Dr. Weston A. Price, Dr. Francis Pottenger, and other nutritional health pioneers
The human body’s innate mechanisms for healing and immunity extend beyond the mending of cuts and broken bones or recovery from colds and flu. Given the foods we evolved to thrive on, foods our ancestors knew well, the body can naturally prevent and overcome a host of degenerative conditions and chronic illnesses, from allergies, eczema, and arthritis to dental caries, heart attack, and even cancer.
Drawing on the work of Dr. Weston A. Price, Dr. Francis Pottenger, and other nutritional health pioneers, Dr. Ron Schmid demonstrates that the strongest and most disease-resistant indigenous cultures around the world lived on whole, natural foods--seafood, wild game, healthy grass-fed domestic animals, and, in some cases, whole grains and raw dairy. He explores how modern refined diets differ from ancestral ones, the dramatic declines in health seen in indigenous cultures that adopt modern diets, and the steps you can take to build health with traditional foods. He observes that the foods considered essential and “sacred” in native cultures--the foods around which rituals and ceremonies evolved and that were emphasized prior to and during pregnancy--were invariably animal-source foods such as seafood, liver, and raw milk products, thus underscoring the importance of these foods to overall health and immunity, a fact that modern nutritional science has overwhelmingly proved true.
Blending the wisdom of traditional eating patterns with modern scientific knowledge, Dr. Schmid explains how to apply these principles to create your own commonsense primal diet, tailored to your specific needs, to rebuild health and improve longevity.

I will probably wait for Nora's book myself.

 

[anartist]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

a new youtube video has been posted on Dr Mercola's site
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dAsnoKznc8
where he interviews Randy Evans
in part it is about the ratio of carbs:fat:protein
(Randy is a registered dietitian/nutritionist with Integrative medicine at KU. Randy works alongside integrative medicine practitioners to provide personalized nutrition therapy for integrative patients who can have goals ranging from improving athletic performance to chronic disease care. He works along with the integrative team to optimize the metabolism of patients with the goal of helping the body to function better. Nutrition is foundational in helping the body because as humans, we eat all day every day, the goal is to have the food we eat promote health.
Outside of seeing patients Randy works with his nutrition mentor Leigh Wagner to provide cooking classes and community presentations to help educate patients and the community on the health benefits of real/whole foods.
Randy's journey to integrative medicine comes from a lifelong interest in nutrition leading him to return to college for a second degree in Dietetics and then Master's of nutrition degree from KU. Having grown up on a dairy farm Randy has a background and degree in agriculture that predates many of our current/modern farming practices and shift in our food supply away from real/whole foods. Optimizing health and interest in athletes fuel Randy's ongoing interest in nutrition.
Away from KU Randy loves being outside and being active especially when the sun is out.)
http://www.kumc.edu/school-of-medicine/integrative-medicine/faculty-and-staff/randall-evans-ms-rd-ld.html

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Interesting article about the link between a KD and gut flora (in a mouse model of autism spectrum disorder):

Mol Autism. 2016 Sep 1;7(1):37. doi: 10.1186/s13229-016-0099-3. eCollection 2016.

Ketogenic diet modifies the gut microbiota in a murine model of autism spectrum disorder.
Newell C1, Bomhof MR2, Reimer RA3, Hittel DS1, Rho JM4, Shearer J3.


Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Gastrointestinal dysfunction and gut microbial composition disturbances have been widely reported in autism spectrum disorder (ASD). This study examines whether gut microbiome disturbances are present in the BTBR(T + tf/j) (BTBR) mouse model of ASD and if the ketogenic diet, a diet previously shown to elicit therapeutic benefit in this mouse model, is capable of altering the profile.

FINDINGS:
Juvenile male C57BL/6 (B6) and BTBR mice were fed a standard chow (CH, 13 % kcal fat) or ketogenic diet (KD, 75 % kcal fat) for 10-14 days. Following diets, fecal and cecal samples were collected for analysis. Main findings are as follows: (1) gut microbiota compositions of cecal and fecal samples were altered in BTBR compared to control mice, indicating that this model may be of utility in understanding gut-brain interactions in ASD; (2) KD consumption caused an anti-microbial-like effect by significantly decreasing total host bacterial abundance in cecal and fecal matter; (3) specific to BTBR animals, the KD counteracted the common ASD phenotype of a low Firmicutes to Bacteroidetes ratio in both sample types; and (4) the KD reversed elevated Akkermansia muciniphila content in the cecal and fecal matter of BTBR animals.

CONCLUSIONS:
Results indicate that consumption of a KD likely triggers reductions in total gut microbial counts and compositional remodeling in the BTBR mouse. These findings may explain, in part, the ability of a KD to mitigate some of the neurological symptoms associated with ASD in an animal model.

The full paper can be downloaded here.

What the article basically says: There is a known connection between gut flora and ASD, which can be beneficially influenced by a KD. It's a mouse model and human studies are needed to transfer these results to the general population, but intuitively (and from published case reports) it seems that a KD has some positive benefits on AUD - which in my view doesn't seem to be all that surprising.

 

[CNS]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Interesting article about the link between a KD and gut flora (in a mouse model of autism spectrum disorder):

Thanks for posting this nicklebleu. My Step-Father has Asperger's Syndrome (part of autism spectrum) and is a big carb-aholic. My Mother had noticed the changes in me due to the diet and decided to try a low carb, gluten and dairy free diet herself. She has very debilitating and painful psoriatic arthritis, but since she got rid of those causative agents, the pain in her joints have greatly subsided, and she can now function - going as far as being able to zip-line and white-water raft, whereas a few months previous, she could barely walk! She has been trying to discuss with my Step-Father for some time now the benefits of the diet, but he is just not having it. He is a very analytical and black-and-white kind of guy (possibly due to his Asperger's, or other personality quirks), so an article like this one may actually grab his attention. Or, he is just stubborn, set in his ways, or in denial like so many others, but I think its worth a shot.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I think it is helpful to have a good set of biota to start with, too. If all you have is the bad kind, reducing the count won't help much. Or so my experience has been.

 

[Carl]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It is worth noting for those who went off the KD for a while, that it may be worth trying again after you have been doing iodine or heavy metal detoxing.

I have been back on for around 3 weeks, combined with cold showers and weight training, and despite a few slip-ups I feel OK. Less brain fog from meals and less energy/mood issues. This is after at least 6 months of going back to paleo, eating sweet potatoes, some rice and other carbs and doing iodine and heavy metal detox.
KD feels better than when I did it the first time (especially since the first time round I could just not stop cheating due to emotional issues)

My next experiment will be to go on the enemas for a couple of weeks 1) Coffee enemas + added glutathione with chlorella/herbals 30 mins before to help with any induced detox 2) Probiotic enemas


PS Another benefit I've seen is less muscle inflammation. I was constantly injuring my shoulder when I would go bouldering every week while eating carbs, but on KD I simply don't get the pain. Also muscle soreness from any exercise is reduced a whole lot!

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I'm responding to an inquiry here so the subject won't be buried in a private correspondence.

Question:

I have the GG genotype in the apoa2 gene. Which states weight gain etc if over 22 grams of saturated fat are consumed. I have read about the benefits of Ketogenic diet, on Sott and the Cass forum. But for someone with these genetic variants? Is it beneficial?

_http://nutritiongenome.com/saturated-fat-cause-gain-weight-due-to-the-apoa2-gene/

What is this mutation all about? From _https://blog.athletigen.com/truth-fats-and-genetics/ :

Saturated Fat and Your Genes

Despite the popular opinion that saturated fat should be highly avoided, some people may not gain weight with an increased saturated fat intake, depending on their genetic profile at a marker in the apolipoprotein A2 (APOA2) gene (5, 6). The APOA2 gene codes a protein that is a part of HDL cholesterol (“good” cholesterol), and variation at this gene has been proposed to affect the function of lipoprotein lipase, the enzyme that breaks down fats into a usable form for the body (11). People with a certain variant in the APOA2 gene may therefore be more sensitive than the average individual to weight gain as a result of increased saturated fat intake, like those from animal fats and butter (7). By using dietary guidelines alongside your genetic profile, you can make better decisions with your fat intake. See our quick saturated fat guide for more info:

Summary of outcomes for saturated fat sensitivity (APOA2 gene – rs5082 marker):

How do you metabolize unsaturated fats?

Similar inferences from genetic research can be made with respect to unsaturated fats. The PPARG gene, which is responsible for differences in unsaturated fat metabolism is a master regulator of fat storage and glucose (sugar) metabolism. Polyunsaturated fats directly bind to the PPARG protein in the body, which then turns on other genes that are responsible for fat metabolism, called beta oxidation. Those with the high responder genotype at this marker in the PPARG gene have a different efficiency of fat breakdown at the molecular level (12), explaining why they may be able to consume more unsaturated fat from sources like olive oil and almonds without gaining weight (8).

Summary of outcomes for unsaturated fat sensitivity (PPARD gene – rs1801282 marker):

The Nitty-Gritty of the Research

A study by Spanish researchers discovered that from their cohort of 1465 overweight individuals between 20 and 45 years old, some people lost more weight on the study than others, even though their diets were tightly controlled. The diet contained a macronutrient ratio of: 35% fat (10% or less saturated fat, 20% monounsaturated), 50% carbohydrates, and 15-20% protein (8). The participants were advised to consume an unlimited amount of vegetables, plentiful amounts of fruit, and use olive oil only for cooking fat, as advised by guidelines of the Mediterranean diet. Participants were also genetically screened for mutations at the PPARD gene and the results were striking.

The researchers found that carriers of the G allele (gifted genotypes) lost more weight in the study when monounsaturated fat (MFA) intake was high (56% or more of total fat), but no differences were found between genotypes when MFA intake was low. It seems counterintuitive, but this means that those with the gifted genotypes lost more weight when they ate more unsaturated fats.

The subject has been discussed in the paleo community:

Poster: APOA2 Gene Polymorphisms and Saturated Fat

_https://ahs16.sched.org/event/6dAc/poster-apoa2-gene-polymorphisms-and-saturated-fat

It is widely understood in the ancestral health community that an individual's genes may determine their response to varying foods. An estimated 1 in 6 people carry the homozygous minor alleles in the gene responsible for coding the APO A2 protein, resulting in a deviant response to foods containing saturated fat with regards to BMI, satiety, and CVD risk. The variations in the APO A2 gene has become one of the most researched gene-diet interactions to date. A review of the current body of literature, including a critical examination of methods used in various experiments, may serve attendees in learning how to determine whether they or their clients may carry the homozygous CC polymorphism, and what practical modifications to diet may be necessary to facilitate desirable satiety, body composition, and chronic disease risk.

So yes, apparently carriers of this mutation (GG genotype) in APO A2 do have to limit saturated fat intake.

 

[hlat]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So yes, apparently carriers of this mutation (GG genotype) in APO A2 do have to limit saturated fat intake.

Thank you. I think is another illustration that there's a lot of variation between individuals. There's so much to learn to figure out what is right for each person. It reminded me of the adjacent plan in the transcript.

Session Date: April 4th 2015
...
A: For many, the transition in diet is either not possible due to epigenetic factors, or must be undertaken very, very slowly. For some, the requirements for carbohydrates is higher. They need to fulfill this need as safely as possible. In this case, the individual has intuited the relationship and should do some experimental adjustments adding root type vegetables and some greens and berries.

Q: (L) What you're saying, I think, is that for some people, transitioning to functioning on ketones is much more difficult for a variety of reasons?

A: Yes

Q: (L) So, the ketogenic diet is not ultimately desirable for everyone?

A: No

Q: (Galatea) But then that also leads to the question about how being on a ketogenic diet helps you evolve and raise your FRV, and make you super-smart and strong?

(Chu) The path to transformation and all that...

(L) Are you saying that the people who can't do the ketogenic diet that they...

(Galatea) They can't evolve, or they can do it another way?

A: It is helpful to evolving and FRV for those who require it. For some, it is required that they follow an adjacent plan. There is a great range of individual types. As you may have noticed, the ketogenic path is very difficult and a challenge even for the people it is right for. Some others have a bit more leeway and less struggle. And in answer to your next question, indeed there is something like karma involved.

Q: (L) So are you suggesting that those of us who need the ketogenic diet have karma to pay off? That we're being tortured? [laughter] We were gluttons in past lives or something?

A: Close enough! But aren't you glad that a path is available?

 

[Astrocyte]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

There is an interesting article on Dr Mercola's site that highlights Dr Ron Rosedale's views on a ketogenic diet:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2016/05/07/too-much-protein-triggers-aging-cancer.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20160507Z1&et_cid=DM104653&et_rid=1475640602

Here is his conlusion:

Beware: Ketogenic Diets Can Be High-Protein or High-Fat, But Only the Latter Is of True Benefit

Now, here’s where things might get confusing, because research3 has also shown that ketone body utilization drives tumor growth and metastasis. (Ketones are acids made by your body when it burns fat rather than carbohydrates as its primary fuel.) This finding appears to be completely contradictory to so many other studies that show a ketogenic diet effectively “starves” cancer. But there is an answer to this apparent contradiction, which Rosedale explains in his lecture.

“It isn’t ketogenesis, really, that we’re after,” he says. “It’s fat burning. They’re not the same. You can have a ketogenic diet by eating protein. It isn’t the ketones, necessarily, that give you the benefit, it’s the fact that you’re burning fat, and the ketones are a byproduct. So you have to specify if you’re going to [promote a] ketogenic diet that it’s a high fat ketogenic diet.

It’s really the burning of fat that’s of benefit. As a result, you’ll get ketones that your brain needs. They do good things too ... So a ketogenic diet is a good diet, but not because it’s ketogenic. It’s [good] because it’s an indication that you’re burning fat.”

The Ideal Diet? Think Low-Carb, Moderate-Protein, High-Fat

I believe it's absolutely crucial, no matter what type of cancer you're trying to address, to incorporate a high-fat ketogenic diet, meaning a diet high in healthy fats like avocado, coconut oil, butter, olive oil and macadamia nuts, low in net carbs (total carbs minus fiber), and moderate amounts of high quality protein, ideally no more than about 1 gram per kilo of lean body mass.

Such a diet, along with Peak Fasting can be easily integrated into whatever cancer treatment plan you decide to follow. More importantly, this kind of diet may be key for preventing cancer and other chronic diseases in the first place. It also appears to be key for longevity, and will help optimize your weight as well, since eating this way will help you convert from burning sugar to burning fat as your primary fuel.

The more I study cancer, the more I think it is not the ketone bodies that slowdown cancer, nor the process of fat burning, but simply the elimination of carbs in the alimentation. The fact is that many cancer cells have mitochondria that can "burn" ketone body as well as any other healthy cells, and sometime even better since they often overexpress MCT (Monocarboxylate transporter), thus can benefit greatly from a boost from the ketone "superfuel" enabling the tumor to grow faster with less vascularisation.

Recent papers have linked lactic acid with malignancy of many cancer and if we are to believe the "Glucose paradox", lactic acid is an important byproduct of carbohydrate metabolism. It is interesting to note that lactic acid and ketone bodies share the same MCT for cell entry. Maybe fermented product is a bad idea if having a cancer as they contain lactic acid.

As for cancer itself, often one cancerous cell is "coupled" with another disfunctionnal cell of a different kind. As an exemple, in (some) breast cancer we have a biphasic tumor composed of stromal and epithelial cells. The stromal cells will exhibit the classic Warburg effect having a metabolism almost exclusively consisting of anaerobic glycolysis and attenuated or innexistant mitochondria, thus consuming tons of glucose to generate it's energy and producing as "excrement" tons of lactic acid. The epithelial cell however have overworking mitochondria and feed itself from the lactic acid of the other stromal cells and transform it back into pyruvate, then into acetyl-CoA to be used by the Krebs cycle inside the mitochondria to procure energy for itself (the epithelial cell).

I hope I do not sound like an heretic inside this ketogenic diet thread, but keeping an open mind and understanding that things are never as simple as they seem is required.

 

[Konstantin]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I found one interesting BBC documentary about HFLC diet.
It is interesting to see how some of the authorities ( doctors and so proclaimed diet experts ) are totally uneducated and close minded about HFLC diet, even when results from a such a diet is shown before they face. You can see how programs are starting to work and how are they still refusing to accept the obvious results.

_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQSazXI-Gpc

 

[mkrnhr]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It is interesting to see how some of the authorities ( doctors and so proclaimed diet experts ) are totally uneducated and close minded about HFLC diet, even when results from a such a diet is shown before they face. You can see how programs are starting to work and how are they still refusing to accept the obvious results.

Well, as R. Feynman said, "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." :)

 

[JGeropoulas]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

While reading the SOTT.net article "Aluminum adjuvant, cytokines, brain inflammation, autism: Did China discover the missing piece of the autism puzzle?" I followed a link near the end for "exogenous ketones". It discusses a new supplement that's available which augments ketone levels beyond just the ketones made by the liver so that someone can enter ketosis more quickly; and cites the many benefits of the ketagenic diet in general, and of this supplement in particular.

I'd be interested in what others know/think about this.

SOTT.net article link:
https://www.sott.net/article/344048-Aluminum-adjuvant-cytokines-brain-inflammation-autism-Did-China-discover-the-missing-piece-of-the-autism-puzzle

Exogenous ketones article:
_https://ketosource.co.uk/exogenous-ketones-how-they-work/

 

[Keyhole]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

While reading the SOTT.net article "Aluminum adjuvant, cytokines, brain inflammation, autism: Did China discover the missing piece of the autism puzzle?" I followed a link near the end for "exogenous ketones". It discusses a new supplement that's available which augments ketone levels beyond just the ketones made by the liver so that someone can enter ketosis more quickly; and cites the many benefits of the ketagenic diet in general, and of this supplement in particular.

I'd be interested in what others know/think about this.

SOTT.net article link:
https://www.sott.net/article/344048-Aluminum-adjuvant-cytokines-brain-inflammation-autism-Did-China-discover-the-missing-piece-of-the-autism-puzzle

Exogenous ketones article:
_https://ketosource.co.uk/exogenous-ketones-how-they-work/

Exogenous ketones are one option, but another (probably cheaper way) is to use MCT/coconut oil.

The fascinating thing about consuming medium-chain triglycerides is that a person can technically be in a mild state of ketosis while still eating high levels of dietary carbohydrates. Chris Masterjohn has an informative video about this. He explains the results of a study which showed that people consuming a meal full of pasta in conjunction with MCT oil were still producing ketones, more so than people on a moderately low carb diet. His point is that ketosis does not actually require a low carbohydrate diet, and people can reap the benefits of ketones while simultaneously having the benefit of carbohydrates for the production of thyroid and oxaloacetate etc (both of which are pretty highly dependent on carbohydrate availability). I highly recommend the video.

http://<iframe width="560" height="...78" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Persej]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

While reading about sodium citrate as glycolysis inhibitor in treatment of cancer (you can read about it here: http://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/29/4/1249.long) I was wondering what kind of effect would happen if the person would be in ketosis in the same time. And I found one article that talks exactly about that: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/313904862_Press-pulse_a_novel_therapeutic_strategy_for_the_metabolic_management_of_cancer

Although, in their study they used a different kind of glycolysis inhibitor. But the method is still the same: chronically starve the cancer cell by producing ketones, and then pulse it with something that inhibits glycolysis:

Restricted ketogenic diet used with 2-Deoxyglucose

Calorie restriction or therapeutic fasting is anti-angiogenic, anti-inflammatory, and pro-apoptotic, and thus targets multiple cancer hallmarks [114, 166, 167, 170, 171, 182, 240–243]. This physiological state also enhances the efficacy of chemotherapy and radiation therapy, while reducing the side effects [244–246]. Indeed, lower dosages of chemotherapeutic drugs can be used when administered together with calorie restriction or restricted ketogenic diets (KD-R). We showed a synergistic interaction between a KD-R and the glycolysis inhibitor 2-deoxyglucose (2-DG) for the metabolic management of the syngeneic CT-2A malignant mouse glioma [247]. It was interesting to find that 2-DG (25 mg/kg) had no therapeutic effect on CT-2A tumor growth when administered alone to mice on a standard high carbohydrate diet, but had a powerful therapeutic effect when administered with a KD-R. Indeed, this relatively low dose of 2-DG became somewhat toxic when used with the KD suggesting that lower dosing of some tumor-targeting drugs could also be effective when administered with KD-R. Besides 2-DG, a range of other glycolysis inhibitors might also produce similar therapeutic effects when combined with the KD-R including 3- bromopyruvate, oxaloacetate, and lonidamine [58, 186, 248–250]. In the example here the KD-R is the press making cancer cells selectively vulnerable to death and the 2-DG is the pulse, which could be used intermittently or cycled to avoid toxicity.

You can read more about that study here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2607273/
This is their result:

Results

Energy intake, body weights, and CT-2A tumor weights were similar in the SD-UR and the SD-UR+2-2DG mouse groups over the dietary treatment period (days 3–13). Tumor weights were about 48% and 80% lower in the KD-R and in the KD-R+2-DG groups, respectively, than in the SD-UR group. Mouse health and vitality was better in the KD-R group than in the KD-R+2-DG group.

Conclusion

Astrocytoma growth was reduced more in the KD-R mouse group supplemented with 2-DG than in the mouse groups receiving either dietary restriction or 2-DG alone, indicating a synergistic interaction between the drug and the diet. The results suggest that management of malignant astrocytoma with restricted ketogenic diets could be enhanced when combined with drugs that inhibit glycolysis.