Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[munaychasumaq]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have to say since i changed into Ketogenetic diet and add a lot of fermented food i having more energy and i do not have the flue since long time.Due to a childhood full of health problems, I was saturated with antibiotics which caused a deterioration of my microbioma.Thanks to this diet and other small changes I am recovering the intestinal health little by little,but still there is a lot work and research to do ;)

 

[Persej]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have to say since i changed into Ketogenetic diet and add a lot of fermented food i having more energy and i do not have the flue since long time.Due to a childhood full of health problems, I was saturated with antibiotics which caused a deterioration of my microbioma.Thanks to this diet and other small changes I am recovering the intestinal health little by little,but still there is a lot work and research to do ;)

That's great to hear. You can also try probiotic enema, if you haven't already. :)

 

[whitecoast]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

While reading the SOTT.net article "Aluminum adjuvant, cytokines, brain inflammation, autism: Did China discover the missing piece of the autism puzzle?" I followed a link near the end for "exogenous ketones". It discusses a new supplement that's available which augments ketone levels beyond just the ketones made by the liver so that someone can enter ketosis more quickly; and cites the many benefits of the ketagenic diet in general, and of this supplement in particular.

I'd be interested in what others know/think about this.

SOTT.net article link:
https://www.sott.net/article/344048-Aluminum-adjuvant-cytokines-brain-inflammation-autism-Did-China-discover-the-missing-piece-of-the-autism-puzzle

Exogenous ketones article:
_https://ketosource.co.uk/exogenous-ketones-how-they-work/

Exogenous ketones are one option, but another (probably cheaper way) is to use MCT/coconut oil.

The fascinating thing about consuming medium-chain triglycerides is that a person can technically be in a mild state of ketosis while still eating high levels of dietary carbohydrates. Chris Masterjohn has an informative video about this. He explains the results of a study which showed that people consuming a meal full of pasta in conjunction with MCT oil were still producing ketones, more so than people on a moderately low carb diet. His point is that ketosis does not actually require a low carbohydrate diet, and people can reap the benefits of ketones while simultaneously having the benefit of carbohydrates for the production of thyroid and oxaloacetate etc (both of which are pretty highly dependent on carbohydrate availability). I highly recommend the video.

Thank you for sharing this Keyhole. :) Whenever I fried some starchier vegetables (like brussel sprouts, onions, mushrooms, sweet potato, regular potato, etc.) I always used a mixture of tallow and coconut or palm oil (which both contain MCTs). I wonder if my body made some kind of subconscious intuitive connection between consuming those particular oils and my experiencing little to no sluggish transition between burning carbs and fat again the day after?

 

[onemen]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hello

I've always use Pork as my primary source of protein and fat, especialy fatty pork belly, also for conveniency of price (cheapest per kilo in supermarket) but I read in this article (PUFA) that Pork Fat have high levels of omega 6. Also does this mean Saindoux is not safe ?

So now I wonder about what would be a safe alternative for proteins. For Fat I can eat lot of butters.

 

[Keyhole]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Hello

I've always use Pork as my primary source of protein and fat, especialy fatty pork belly, also for conveniency of price (cheapest per kilo in supermarket) but I read in this article (PUFA) that Pork Fat have high levels of omega 6. Also does this mean Saindoux is not safe ?

So now I wonder about what would be a safe alternative for proteins. For Fat I can eat lot of butters.

The pork sold in supermarkets in usually grain-fed. You are correct that animals fed grains exhibit abnormally large amounts of PUFA (mostly omega 6) in their fatty tissue. Additionally, the grains are sprayed with pesticides and other treatments which the animal also incorporates into the fat, along with other toxins, as a protective mechanism. If you have to eat supermarket meat, the best would probably be the leanest cuts. Ideally, sourcing your meat from reputable, pasture-raising farmers would be most appropriate. Grass-fed gelatine powder is another option to add protein, but this can also be pretty expensive.

For butter, it is important to have 100% grass-fed butters such as Kerrygold, otherwise those will also contain a ton of PUFA.

 

[onemen]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks again Keyhole


I always buy butter labeled "bio" or "agriculture biologique" and I just did a search for grass-fed butter (_https://fr.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20121209111148AAY9VQ2)
and this guy said that in France, cows are only fed pastured grass in Summer, but in winter "hay" or "forage". Also I it is written pasterized cream on my butter, I recall having read somewhere that pasteurized might not be the good stuff, in the link above, the guy say that truly good butter is grass-fed and RAW which is rarely found in supermarket.

Also I am confused because I though "bio" or "organic" is the same "grass-fed". On thi article (_http://www.reedyforkfarm.com/435/whats-the-difference-between-organic-and-grass-fed/) it is said that organic cows are fed organic feed that could include grains when grass isn't accessible but must not be given antibiotics or growth-enhancing hormones.
However Grass-fed cows are fed exclusively grass, hay and orage, no grains but it's possible that pesticides were used on the grasses or hay, and possibly given antibiotics or hormones. So which one is the least evil ?

So, anyone living in France, where do you buy your butter?
Also do you buy your grass-fed meat on the internet ?

 

[Joe]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks again Keyhole


I always buy butter labeled "bio" or "agriculture biologique" and I just did a search for grass-fed butter (_https://fr.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20121209111148AAY9VQ2)
and this guy said that in France, cows are only fed pastured grass in Summer, but in winter "hay" or "forage". Also I it is written pasterized cream on my butter, I recall having read somewhere that pasteurized might not be the good stuff, in the link above, the guy say that truly good butter is grass-fed and RAW which is rarely found in supermarket.

Also I am confused because I though "bio" or "organic" is the same "grass-fed". On thi article (_http://www.reedyforkfarm.com/435/whats-the-difference-between-organic-and-grass-fed/) it is said that organic cows are fed organic feed that could include grains when grass isn't accessible but must not be given antibiotics or growth-enhancing hormones.
However Grass-fed cows are fed exclusively grass, hay and orage, no grains but it's possible that pesticides were used on the grasses or hay, and possibly given antibiotics or hormones. So which one is the least evil ?

So, anyone living in France, where do you buy your butter?
Also do you buy your grass-fed meat on the internet ?

In France it is hard to find grass or natural fed meat. You'd have to go to a specific farmer near you that sells it. As for butter, I'd say most butter in France comes from cows that are fed mostly with grain. I think the "bio" or organic label simply means that no GMO grains are used, which isn't something special since there are few GMO grains in France. If you can find 'raw' butter I think would be best, i.e. not pasturized.

 

[Adaryn]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

For those living in France, this website sells grass-fed beef: _http://www.leboeufdherbe.fr/
I haven't tried it yet. I buy meat from the butcher and from a cooperative of local producers/farmers who practice "reasoned farming" - meat is not labeled as "organic", but it's still high quality to me. As for butter, you generally can find "Le Gall" raw butter in Leclerc, Carrefour and other big supermarkets: _http://www.shoptimise.fr/p/2253056391002/beurre+de+baratte+cru+doux+la+plaquette+de+250+g

 

[onemen]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks Joe, Adaryn. Unfortunately, prior to reading this article on pufa, i've already done my shopping for the week (lots of "bio"pasteurized butter and fatty surely grain fed pork)
So next time, i'll surely I'll be more careful in choosing my butter and make sure to get it raw. Thanks for your suggestion Adaryn. Also, kerrygold seems to be available in Carrefour : _https://www.drive.be/fr/cremerie-fromage/beurre-margarine/doux/kerrygold-pur-beurre-irlandais-demi-sel-250-g/PID1/85931/23477.

My mother is a farmer business councelor so she might know someone selling pastured meat. Also for those living near the upper part of france, this farmer seems reliable, _http://www.lesviandesduchateauneuf.fr/boutique/content/6-presentation-de-la-ferme, I think I'll get in touch with him for next time.

 

[Nico]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

This article on SOTT describe the voluptuous art of eating butter, I really enjoyed it. It mentioned a tasteful buttered from Isigny in France, I love the cream, I'll find the butter.

https://www.sott.net/article/346415-Our-messed-up-relationship-with-food-has-a-long-history-and-it-started-with-butter

Over time, even the amateur starts to pick up on the subtleties. There's a butter from Stirling Creamery in Ontario made from whey cream (a byproduct of the cheesemaking process), which has what Khosrova calls an "umami cheesiness" that does a back flip in your mouth. There's a cultured butter from Vermont Creamery that's a startling 86 percent butterfat, rather than the 80 percent of most of the others — it's at once milky and tangy. The French cultured butter from Isigny Ste-Mere, churned in a traditional style, has a wonderful balance, the tanginess mixed with coarse rock salt and a satisfying fatty fullness at the end. Separate from the tasting, Khosrova pulls out a butter-that-shall-not-be-named as an example of what can go wrong; its flavor is marked by a distinct cardboardiness, which she says is likely related to compounds known as aldehydes.

I've found a site from a farm in south west France (le Gers) which is held by an American family. It has to be tested.

_https://grasspunk.com/the-flavour-of-beef/

There's also this butter that I've found very addictive with its bold yellow color which means there's probably a lot of carotene, so the cow are eating lots of grass.

_http://rayonsverts-vierzon.fr/index.php/produit/bonneterre-beurre-de-baratte-doux/

 

[clearmiddle]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I am replying here to my own old post because my forum searches for "Guyenet" didn't turn up much of anything recent, and Stephan Guyenet has been doing interesting work of late that may shed light on how low carb diets (ketogenic or not) actually work. His new book, "The Hungry Brain - Outsmarting the instincts that make us overeat", is well worth reading for its unique insights into the neurological pathways that lie behind energy balance, irrespective of how his conclusions may hold up. He has written it at an accessible level that doesn't require a background in neurology or biochemistry. (Though he repeatedly reminded me of portions of The Polyvagal Theory.)

What especially struck me and specifically made me think of this forum topic is his conclusion that high-palatability foods drive energy imbalance and weight gain, irrespective of macronutrient ratios. We stated it here a different way, but the result can be the same. Many of us commented about regarding "food as fuel."

When I went low carb, I eliminated all high-palatability foods (processed and non-processed), and that produced positive results for about two years. After that I ran into severe health problems, increased my carb intake AND highly palatable foods, and regained the weight very quickly (although at the same time mitigating the other problems). Since then, for the past three or so years, I have been experimenting with other approaches that do not cut carbs dramatically, and over the past year I have begun to see weight loss results again, and they do indeed appear to be connected with reducing food palatability -- "food as fuel."

For me, weight control appears to be largely about avoiding foods with high "reward value" and low satiety. It's a theme I see in other parts of my life as well (all of which I see as interconnected anyway). There is something going on with the brain's reward pathways that makes the difference. Interestingly, Guyenet talks about MRI studies that suggest that the inflammatory foods found in "Western diet" may possibly be causing observable damage to areas of the brain involved in energy balance. In any case, high palatability - low satiety foods appear as though they may pathologically disrupt brain mechanisms, an observation that is not lost on the processed food industry. This damage, if it turns out to be what it appears to be, could potentially lead to excessive weight or insufficient weight.

Guyenet has been interviewed about his book on several podcasts. One that I just listened to (after reading the book) is:
_https://chriskresser.com/why-your-brain-makes-you-fat-with-stephan-guyenet/

In the interview he talks about the deliberate attempts by the food industry to disrupt people's appetite regulation, and to a degree that I don't recall his having done in the book proper. Other books I have read that investigate this intentional disruption are Kessler's The End of Overeating and Schatzker's The Dorito Effect.

...You can find more about their mission and strategies from their website:

_http://nusi.org/

Some of the information on the site is in slide shows, so it's hard to copy any of that here. One nice thing I found, and I haven't yet read everything, was a comprehensive list of studies/literature they are using as a starting point:

_http://nusi.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Summary-of-Diet-Studies-Condensed.pdf

Looks very promising, but let's see what comes of this.

Stephan Guyenet's comments about the initiative can be found on his blog here:
_http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2012/09/nutrition-science-initiative-nusi.html

He is in favor, overall, but raises some concerns as would be expected given his relationship with Taubes.

 

[hlat]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

In any case, high palatability - low satiety foods appear as though they may pathologically disrupt brain mechanisms, an observation that is not lost on the processed food industry.

Is high palatability - low satiety only processed foods, or does high palatability - low satiety also include foods from nature?

 

[lainey]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

In any case, high palatability - low satiety foods appear as though they may pathologically disrupt brain mechanisms, an observation that is not lost on the processed food industry.

Is high palatability - low satiety only processed foods, or does high palatability - low satiety also include foods from nature?

I'm interested to know this too. My first thought was that fruit may fall into this category as most are high in fructose but contain less nutritional elements than vegetables.

 

[Keyhole]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

In any case, high palatability - low satiety foods appear as though they may pathologically disrupt brain mechanisms, an observation that is not lost on the processed food industry.

Is high palatability - low satiety only processed foods, or does high palatability - low satiety also include foods from nature?

I'm interested to know this too. My first thought was that fruit may fall into this category as most are high in fructose but contain less nutritional elements than vegetables.

I disagree with this, lainey. If you look at the composition of orange juice for example, it is packed full of magnesium, potassium, salicylic acid, and many others. Also, the high content of fructose suppresses the insulin response, and also does not require insulin to be transported into the cell. Fructose is a massive stimulator of glycogen synthesis, which when utilised, supresses cortisol and other stress hormone-related muscle tissue breakdown for energy.

Additionally, vegetables usually contain many anti-nutrients, and often have to be prepared to be suitable for consumption. On the other hand, fruits are literally designed by nature to be eaten as they are. This says a lot to me. Of course, I don't think overdoing it is advisable. But likewise, to say that fruit contains less nutritional value and could not be part of a healthy diet is probably incorrect IMO.

 

[Ant22]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

In any case, high palatability - low satiety foods appear as though they may pathologically disrupt brain mechanisms, an observation that is not lost on the processed food industry.

Is high palatability - low satiety only processed foods, or does high palatability - low satiety also include foods from nature?

I'm interested to know this too. My first thought was that fruit may fall into this category as most are high in fructose but contain less nutritional elements than vegetables.

I disagree with this, lainey. If you look at the composition of orange juice for example, it is packed full of magnesium, potassium, salicylic acid, and many others. Also, the high content of fructose suppresses the insulin response, and also does not require insulin to be transported into the cell. Fructose is a massive stimulator of glycogen synthesis, which when utilised, supresses cortisol and other stress hormone-related muscle tissue breakdown for energy.

Additionally, vegetables usually contain many anti-nutrients, and often have to be prepared to be suitable for consumption. On the other hand, fruits are literally designed by nature to be eaten as they are. This says a lot to me. Of course, I don't think overdoing it is advisable. But likewise, to say that fruit contains less nutritional value and could not be part of a healthy diet is probably incorrect IMO.

Keyhole's post made me think of my own experience with the ketogenic diet and fruit. The ketogenic diet was a bit of a failure for me: I seem to feel better with a certain amount of carbs in my diet as meat/fat based diet makes me feel sluggish. At early stages of my diet change I was doing fat bombs to maximise my fat intake and too much fat would make me feel sick, sluggish and in general 'meh'.

Around the time I started eating more meat and fat I started having quite intense fruit cravings. Including fruit I never really liked, like apples and oranges. I found this to be interesting because I never liked fruit much before (I was more of a chocolate person ) The thing is that adding fruit to my diet enabled me to tolerate high animal fat and meat content much better. Vegetables didn't do it for me: I always have them with meat anyway and there was no difference to the sluggishness.

This may be anecdotal evidence but I suspect fruit did have quite a bit of a role to play in my diet adjustment. The Cs did say that the ketogenic diet may be tough for some initially and for me adding fruit meant a massive improvement.

I cannot be sure if there are some epigenetic factors at play in my case, or my experience is just an exception, or being hardcore vegetarian until early 2016 affected my ability to cope with the ketogenic diet so FWIW :)