Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Here are some basics of mitochondrial energetics that are meant highlight the difference between fat burning metabolism vs carb burning metabolism. It is taken for the most part from the LWB thread and it can serve as a useful guide and complement to the videos or other references. It will also help people understand where are some of the names coming from in the papers.

There are many man-made myths surrounding energy production in the body and which foods supply energy. Mainstream science says that carbohydrates are what mitochondria use as fuel for energy production. This process is called oxidative metabolism because oxygen is consumed in the process. The energy produced by mitochondria is stored in a chemical “battery”, a unique molecule called adenosine triphosphate (ATP). Energy-packed ATP can then be transported throughout the cell, releasing energy on demand of specific enzymes. In addition to the fuel they produce, mitochondria also create a by-product related to oxygen called reactive oxygen species (ROS), commonly known as free radicals. But what we are not told is that mitochondria were specifically designed to use fat for energy, not carbohydrate.

There are several very complicated steps in making ATP within mitochondria, but a look at 5 major parts of ATP production will be all that you need to know in order to understand how energy is created within our mitochondria and why fats are the key to optimize their function. Don’t get too focused on specific names, just try to see the whole picture.

Step 1 – Transportation of Food-Based Fuel Source into the Mitochondria

Fuel must first get into the mitochondria where all the action happens. Fuel can come from carbs or it can come from fats. Fatty acids are the chemical name for fat, and the medium and large sized fatty acids get into the mitochondria completely intact with the help of L-carnitine. Think of L-carnitine as a subway train that transports fatty acids into the mitochondria. L-carnitine (from the Greek word carnis meaning meat or flesh) is chiefly found in animal products.

Fuel coming from carbs needs to get broken down first outside the mitochondria and the product of this breakdown (pyruvate) is the one who gets transported inside the mitochondria, or it can be used to produce energy in a very inefficient way outside the mitochondria through anaerobic metabolism which produces ATP when oxygen is not present.

Step 2 – Fuel is Converted into Acetyl-CoA

When pyruvate – the product of breaking down carbs – enters the mitochondria, it first must be converted into acetyl-CoA by an enzymatic reaction.

Fatty acids that are already inside the mitochondria are broken down directly into acetyl-CoA in what is called beta-oxidation.

Acetyl-CoA is the starting point of the next step in the production of ATP inside the mitochondria.

Step 3 – Oxidation of Acetyl-CoA and the Krebs Cycle

The Krebs cycle (AKA tricarboxylic acid cycle or citric acid cycle) is the one that oxidizes the acetyl-CoA, removing thus electrons from acetyl-CoA and producing carbon dioxide as a by-product in the presence of oxygen inside the mitochondria.

Step 4 – Electrons Are Transported Through the Respiratory Chain

The electrons obtained from acetyl-CoA – which ultimately came from carbs or fats – are shuttled through many molecules as part of the electron transport chain inside the mitochondria. Some molecules are proteins, others are cofactors molecules. One of these cofactors is an important substance found mainly in animal foods and it is called coenzyme Q-10. Without it, mitochondrial energy production would be minimal. This is the same coenzyme Q10 that statins drug block producing crippling effects on people’s health. Step 4 is also where water is produced when oxygen accepts the electrons.

Step 5 – Oxidative phosphorylation

As electrons travel down the electron transport chain, they cause electrical fluctuations (or chemical gradients) between the inner and outer membrane in the mitochondria. These chemical gradients are the driving forces that produce ATP in what is called oxidative phosphorylation. Then the ATP is transported outside the mitochondria for the cell to use as energy for any of its thousands of biochemical reactions.


So that's the basics. But why is fat better than carbs?

If there were no mitochondria, then fat metabolism for energy would be limited and not very efficient. But nature provided us during our evolution with mitochondria that specifically uses fat for energy. Fat is the fueled that animals use to travel great distances, hunt, work, and play since fat gives more packed-energy ATPs than carbs. Biochemically, it makes sense that if we are higher mammals who have mitochondria, then we need to eat fat.

Whereas carb metabolism yields 36 ATP molecules from a glucose molecule, a fat metabolism yields 48 ATP molecules from a fatty acid molecule inside the mitochondria. Fat supplies more energy for the same amount of food compared to carbs. But not only that, the burning of fat by the mitochondria – beta oxidation – produces ketone bodies. These ketone bodies - acetoacetate, β-hydroxybutyrate and acetone – are produced for the most part by the cells in the liver. When our bodies are running primarily on fats, large amounts of acetyl-CoA are produced which exceed the capacity of the Krebs, leading to the making of these three ketone bodies within liver mitochondria. Our levels of ketone bodies in our blood go up and the brain readily uses them for energetic purposes. Ketone bodies cross the blood brain barrier very easily as well. Their solubility also makes them readily transportable by the blood to other organs and tissues. When ketone bodies are used as energy, they release acetyl-CoA which then goes to the Krebs cycle again to produce energy.

The increased production of acetyl-CoA generated from the ketone bodies also drives the Krebs cycle to increase mitochondrial NADH (reduced nicotinamide adenine nucleotide) which our body uses in over 450 biochemical reactions that are vital, including the cell signaling and assisting of the ongoing DNA repair. Because the ketone body beta-hydroxybutyrate is more energy rich than pyruvate, it produces more ATP as well. Ketosis also enhances the production of important anti-oxidants that deal with toxic elements from our environments, including glutathione.

According to Douglas C. Wallace (Director of the Center for Mitochondrial and Epigenomic Medicine), the longevity benefits seen in caloric restriction research is due to the fact that our bodies shift to a fat burning metabolism within our mitochondria. That is, we don't necessarily need to restrict our caloric intake as long as we are on ketosis from a high fat, moderate protein diet (and restricted in carbs of course). Alternating now and again with intermittent fasting will help us maintain good levels of ketone bodies though.

A few concepts of the role of our mitochondria will also help put things into perspective.

Mitochondria regulate cellular suicide, AKA apoptosis, so that old and dysfunctional cells which need to die do so and then new ones can come into the scene. A cell can still commit suicide (apoptosis) even when it has no nucleus along with its nuclear DNA. But when mitochondria function becomes impaired and send signals that tell normal cells to die, things go wrong. For instance, the destruction of brain cells leads to every single neurodegenerative condition including Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease and so forth.

The catalysts for this destruction is usually uncontrolled free radical production which cause oxidative damage to tissues, fat, proteins, DNA, causing them to rust. This damage, called oxidative stress, is at the basis of oxidized cholesterol, stiff arteries (rusty pipes) and brain damage. Oxidative stress is a key player in dementia as well as autism. We produce our own anti-oxidants to keep a check on free radical production, but these systems are easily overwhelmed by a toxic environment and a high carb diet.

Mitochondria also have interesting characteristics which differentiate them from all other structural parts of our cells. For instance, they have their own DNA (referred as mtDNA) which is separate from the widely known DNA in the nucleus (referred as n-DNA), and it comes for the most part from the mother line which is why mitochondria is also considered as your feminine life force. This mtDNA is arranged in a ring configuration and it lacks a protective protein surrounding which leaves its genetic code vulnerable to free radical damage. If you don’t eat enough animal fats, you can’t build a functional mitochondrial membrane which will keep it healthy and prevent it from dying. If you have any kind of inflammation from anywhere in your body, you damage your mitochondria. The loss of function or death of mitochondria is present in pretty much every disease. Dietary and environmental factors lead to oxidative stress and thus, mitochondrial injury as the final common pathway of diseases or illnesses. Autism, ADHD, Parkinson’s, depression, anxiety, bipolar disease, brain aging is linked with mitochondrial dysfunction from oxidative stress. Mitochondrial dysfunction contributes to congestive heart disease, type 2 diabetes, autoimmune disorders, aging, cancer, and other diseases.

Whereas the nDNA provides the information your cells need to code for proteins that control metabolism, repair, and structural integrity of your body, it is the mDNA which directs the production and utilization of your life energy.
Because of their energetic role, the cells of tissues and organs which require more energy to function are richer in mitochondrial numbers. Cells in our brains, muscles, heart, kidney and liver contain thousands of mitochondria, comprising up to 40% of the cell’s mass. According to Prof. Enzo Nisoli, a human adult possesses more than ten million billion mitochondria, making up a full 10% of the total body weight. Each cell contains hundreds of mitochondria and thousands of mtDNA.

Since mtDNA is less protected than nDNA because it has no “protein” coating (histones), it is exquisitely vulnerable to injury by destabilizing molecules such as neurotoxic pesticides, herbicides, excitotoxins, heavy metals and volatile chemicals among others, tipping the balance of free radical production to the extreme and leading to oxidative stress which damages our mitochondria and its DNA. This leads to overexcitation of cells and inflammation which is at the root of Parkinson’s disease and other diseases, but also mood problems and behavior problems.

Enough energy means a happy and healthy life. It also reflects in our brains with focused and sharp thinking. Lack of energy means mood problems, dementia, and slowed mental function among others. Mitochondria are intricately linked to the ability of the prefrontal cortex –our brain’s captain- to come fully online. Brain cells are loaded in mitochondria that produce the necessary energy to learn and memorize, and fire neurons harmoniously.

The sirtuin family of genes works by protecting and improving the health and function of your mitochondria. They are positively influenced by a diet that is non-glycating, i.e. a low carb diet, since a high carb diet induces mitochondrial dysfunction and formation of reactive oxygen species.

And well, then we come back in full circle to the information presented in this thread that shows how ketosis stabilizes overexcitation and oxidative stress, increases our natural valium (GABA), makes our hippocampus (important for learning, memory and emotions) super resilient to stress, with possibly double the quantity of mitochondria when in ketosis. It also causes epigenetic changes that increases the production of healthy and energetic mitochondria and it decreases the overproduction of damaging and inflammatory free radicals among may other things.

As Douglas C. Wallace says in the Mitochondrial Energetics paper, “the ketogenic diet may act at multiple levels: It may decrease excitatory neuronal activity, increase the expression of bioenergetic genes, increase mitochondrial biogenesis and oxidative energy production, and increase mitochondrial NADPH production, thus decreasing mitochondrial oxidative stress.”

Moreover, you might want to keep in mind this excerpt from Human Brain Evolution: The Influence of Freshwater and Marine Food Resources :

There are two key advantages to having ketone bodies as the main alternative fuel to glucose for the human brain. First, humans normally have significant body fat stores, so there is an abundant supply of fatty acids to make ketones. Second, using ketones to meet part of the brain’s energy requirement when food availability is intermittent frees up some glucose for other uses and greatly reduces both the risk of detrimental muscle breakdown during glucose synthesis, as well as compromised function of other cells dependent on glucose, that is, red blood cells. One interesting attribute of ketone uptake by the brain is that it is four to five times faster in newborns and infants than in adults. Hence, in a sense, the efficient use of ketones by the infant brain means that it arguably has a better fuel reserve than the adult brain. Although the role of ketones as a fuel reserve is important, in infants, they are more than just a reserve brain fuel – they are also the main substrate for brain lipid synthesis.

I have hypothesized that evolution of a greater capacity to make ketones coevolved with human brain expansion. This increasing capacity was directly linked to evolving fatty acid reserves in body fat stores during fetal and neonatal development. To both expand brain size and increase its sophistication so remarkably would have required a reliable and copious energy supply for a very long period of time, probably at least a million, if not two million, years. Initially, and up to a point, the energy needs of a somewhat larger hominin brain could be met by glucose and short - term glucose reserves such as glycogen and glucose synthesis from amino acids. As hominins slowly began to evolve larger brains after having acquired a more secure and abundant food supply, further brain expansion would have depended on evolving significant fat stores and having reliable and rapid access to the fuel in those fat stores. Fat stores were necessary but were still not sufficient without a coincident increase in the capacity for ketogenesis. This unique combination of outstanding fuel store in body fat as well as rapid and abundant availability of ketones as a brain fuel that could seamlessly replace glucose was the key fuel reserve for expanding the hominin brain, a reserve that was apparently not available to other land - based mammals, including nonhuman primates.

Ketosis made us human :)
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thank you very much for your post, Psyche
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

You know, this remaining in a state of ketosis is interesting. I now realize that I was never in it for long except when fasting and the last time I fasted, it was miserable. I now realize that was probably due to autophagy. Anyway, I'm right about at 3 weeks of my determination to go through whatever misery I have to go through to get to the other side and it hasn't been THAT miserable, thanks to bone broth with added lard and butter. There have been a few rough spots, but it's really been worth it.

I realized today as I was outside inspecting what last night's rain did in terms of water flow and problem areas on the ground, that my body no longer feels like a 60 year-old body. I actually have ZERO pain and my joints seem to be moving with an ease I haven't experienced for something like 30 years. That's today, of course, tomorrow may be different. But for the moment, I'm thinking that this ketosis thing is nothing short of a miracle. I've also gone 5 kilos past my last plateau that I was stuck on for about a year. So I've lost a total of 24 kilos since the beginning of my detox and diet experiments. That's about 53 pounds. I've gone down about 4 dress sizes and that awful stomach fat I was carrying around since my last pregnancy over 20 years ago is finally almost gone. I hated that.

Yes, I have a ways to go yet. I'd like to lose another 50 pounds and it looks like I just might be able to do it without suffering, and all the while repairing my body and restoring health.

Another benefit... on ketosis, I seem to be able to tolerate eggs much better. That's a real plus, IMO!
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have been on 0,8g protein per kg of bodyweight par day during all the summer. The meals was usualy like the following :

breakfast : 95g of cooked pig belly
50g of added fat (pig fat and/or coconut oil and/or ghee)
arround 150g of green beans or zucchini

lunch : 55g of cooked pig belly (some time replaced by pig liver)
40g of added fat (pig fat and/or coconut oil and/or ghee)
arround 150g of green beans or zucchini


dinner : 55g of cooked pig belly
30g of added fat (pig fat and/or coconut oil and/or ghee)
arround 150g of green beans or zucchini

or

fish (sardine or macquerel or wild salmon)
an avocado
30g of olive oil or other fat

I was doing heavy work twice a week on average. And some time I was hungry arround 10pm so I had a fourth meal (same as dinner).

I have stop the heavy work since a week or so.


Last saturday I have cut out the vegetables and all the supplements (ALCAR, b complex, b12, magnesium. potassium) except a little bit of acorbic acid.
I wake up at 4 am with what you may call IBS and I have repaint the toilet.


Sunday I ate the same and guet less ascorbic acid (once after dinner), I get a little diarrhea 20 minutes later, and then again during the night but less than the night before.

I have made the initial fast til monday arround 1pm. I was up very late this day, arround 10am (12 hours in bed!). I have been sleeping 10 hours a night for several month now (exept on the heavy workout day - 6 or 7 hours).


So, Monday, at 1pm I get two cups of broth with 50g of additional fat. And for dinner two cups of broth with 30g of additional fat.


Tuesday : back to normal (except little less meat and a cup of broth added for breakfast)


Yesterday : Normal breakfast (with broth) and broth for lunch and dinner. I was to much hungry and couldn't sleep partly because of mosquitos. I finally ate arround 100g of salami with ghee by 11pm and get back to bed arround 12pm.


This morning, after have been waking up all over the night by those mosquito, I get up arround 9am and feel a little bit more energy than I have from the beginning of this KD. I have up the fat and will continue to take 10g more per meal. Also, I didn't think about taking account of the proteins there is in the broth for today's lunch (I usually count 6g for a cup - I think that I reed that on USDA description) and I will continue to forget because if I want to continue to have broth at each meal that the portion of meat will look very little.

I didn't had stool till the last diarreah. I have this little disiness from the brain from the begining of this KD.

I didn't start the HIIT think yet.

Good day, forgiveness, thank you
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Laura said:
... But for the moment, I'm thinking that this ketosis thing is nothing short of a miracle. I've also gone 5 kilos past my last plateau that I was stuck on for about a year. So I've lost a total of 24 kilos since the beginning of my detox and diet experiments. That's about 53 pounds. I've gone down about 4 dress sizes and that awful stomach fat I was carrying around since my last pregnancy over 20 years ago is finally almost gone. I hated that.

That is great news, Laura! Stomach fat is difficult to get rid of. I lost a good amount of mine, just cutting out gluten, but there is a small, stubborn amount that seems to persist. Since starting bone broth 2 weeks ago, I've noticed a bit more disappearing. Yeah! for ketosis!

This diet is awesome and I have to say, cheap. I haven't gone to the supermarket in weeks. :cool2:
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Psyche said:
Here are some basics of mitochondrial energetics that are meant highlight the difference between fat burning metabolism vs carb burning metabolism. It is taken for the most part from the LWB thread and it can serve as a useful guide and complement to the videos or other references. It will also help people understand where are some of the names coming from in the papers.

{snip}

Ketosis made us human :)

This is a great post, Psyche! I had in the back of my mind that I wanted to write an article condensing all this info, but I never got to it (as usual :rolleyes:). Bravo!
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I was looking around at different stances on protein intake per day and this one took me by surprise. It's from a website called The IF LIFE (intermittent fasting & feeding). While he doesn't quite understand the benefits of fat over carbs, or at least seems wary of promoting fats, this really debunks a lot of that crap about needing all this protein (and of course carbs too), particularly for those of us who are slender and trying to put some weight back on.

I've emboldened the things I found particularly interesting and put a line through bits where I suspect he is influenced by the "saturated fats are bad" stigma.

The Truth on How Much Protein You Really Need Per Day to Build Muscle

How much protein do you REALLY need per day to build muscle? Chances are that you may be actually overeating. But how much is enough to help maintain and build muscle? Is there a limit per meal that the body can use? Let's get started with 2 more recent studies that currently have many high protein eating bodybuilding communities panicking…

Six healthy young men reported to the laboratory on 5 separate occasions to perform an intense bout of leg-based resistance exercise. After exercise, participants consumed, in a randomized order, drinks containing 0, 5, 10, 20, or 40g whole egg protein. Protein synthesis and whole-body leucine oxidation were measured over 4 h after exercise by a primed constant infusion of leucine.

APS increased in a dose-dependent manner and also reached a plateau at 20g ingested protein. Leucine oxidation was significantly increased after 20 and 40g protein were ingested.

Ingestion of 20 g intact protein is sufficient to maximally stimulate MPS and APS after resistance exercise. Phosphorylation of candidate signaling proteins was not enhanced with any dose of protein ingested, which suggested that the stimulation of MPS after resistance exercise may be related to amino acid availability. Finally, dietary protein consumed after exercise in excess of the rate at which it can be incorporated into tissue protein stimulates irreversible oxidation.

Source: Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin synthesis after resistance exercise in young men
[Source link is broken, it's just http://]

And here's another one:

This study sought to compare changes in muscle protein synthesis and anabolic efficiency in response to a single moderate serving (113 g; 220 kcal; 30 g protein) or large serving (340 g; 660 kcal; 90 g protein) of 90% lean beef.

Mixed muscle fractional synthesis rate was calculated during a 3-hour postabsorptive period and for 5 hours after meal ingestion. A 113-g serving of lean beef increased muscle protein synthesis by approximately 50% in both young and older volunteers. Despite a threefold increase in protein and energy content, there was no further increase in protein synthesis after ingestion of 340 g lean beef in either age group. Ingestion of more than 30 g protein in a single meal does not further enhance the stimulation of muscle protein synthesis in young and elderly.

Source: A Moderate Serving of High-Quality Protein Maximally Stimulates Skeletal Muscle Protein Synthesis in Young and Elderly Subjects; Journal of the American Dietetic Association, Volume 109, Issue 9, Pages 1582-1586

So according to the research above we are seeing that muscle protein synthesis maxes out after a meal at 20-30 grams and anything in over will actually not help stimulate more muscle protein synthesis, but rather just increase excess oxidation (burn for energy).

More Protein Does Not Mean More Muscle

While protein is of course essential to building up muscle, that doesn’t necessarily mean that just eating more and more guarantees bigger muscles. So how much do we really need in the first place? Well here’s some numbers for you:

  • The RDA (recommended dietary allowance) for protein is 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight of adults (or roughly 0.36 grams per lb of body weight). Or I have also seen advised that women need at least 46 grams of protein per day, and men need at least 56 grams of protein per day (to avoid deficiency).
  • NSCA (National Strength and Conditioning Association) recommends that for active people, endurance and strength training, a higher intake is advised at around 0.4-0.6 per lb of bodyweight (and up to 0.8g/lb bw for full time athletes).

*Note that most of these “body weights” for calculating protein are more based on “ideal” (or even “fat free”) weight.

These are interesting numbers and much lower than what you may hear out there. You can see that with more activity, then the recommended amount of protein will increase. What is also important to remember that the overall calorie intake is also increasing with activity level. So in essence, while the amount of protein may increase the % of protein per daily calories may actually be the same (or less). Just something to keep in mind, as calories also matter.

Intermittent Fasting and Protein Intake

Well if you look at the info above where only 20-30 grams of protein are absorbed per meal, then what about many of us IF’ers who eat less number of but larger meals? Are we going to lose all our muscle when we fast and only eat 2-3x a day? Of course by now many who IF already know that is not true.

But it does call into question about “needing” 5-6 meals of 20-30 grams of protein to maximize muscle protein synthesis. As much as every supplement company would love us all to believe that we need a 20 gram whey protein shake every 2-3 hours (and fuel more supplement sales), in fact maybe the body works better when presented a randomized/stressed environment and not some set equally divided schedule day in and out.

Here’s a little outtake from Dr Eades on his blog comments (#2 to be precise) about protein turnover and IF that is very enlightening:
_http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/intermittent-fasting/fast-way-to-better-health/

I don’t think IF would affect muscle mass much at all. If you go without food for a long period of time, say, several days, your metabolic system goes after your muscle mass to convert the protein stored there into the glucose you need to keep your blood glucose normal. This doesn’t happen in the short term. All the protein structures in the body draw from and add to the amino acid pool. When muscle breaks down the individual amino acids go into the pool from where they’re harvested by the system that converts them to glucose. When new muscle is made, the amino acids used to construct the muscle protein are drawn from the amino acid pool. One of the contributors to the AA pool is enzymes that are no longer needed and junk proteins that the body is cleansing from the cells. When one is fasting, one of the group of enzymes not really needed is the group of digestive enzymes that would otherwise be employed in digesting food. These enzymes break down and their amino acids enter the AA pool where the muscle can pick them up as needed. Also, during an IF, the body goes into ketosis. I posted a few months back on how ketosis stimulates the process of cellular cleansing by removing junk proteins from the cells. The amino acids from these proteins also enter the AA pool where they can be recycled by the muscle mass. So, even though new protein isn’t coming into the body minute by minute from the diet, there is plenty of substrate there in the AA pool to last until the next meal, which is, at most, only 24 hours away.

So by the looks of it, actually not eating all day long may help increase your ability to build more muscle on less dietary protein. By using IF and allowing the body to recycle old junk proteins (remember autophagy?) as well as enzymes, the demand for amino acids through diet could be less.

Protein Pulsing for Better Anabolic Responses?

Here’s another interesting outlook on how the body is actually able to use proteins in a larger meal vs several spread out ones.

After a controlled period, 15 elderly women (mean age: 68 y) were fed for 14 d either a pulse diet (n = 7), providing 80% of the daily protein intake at 1200, or a spread diet (n = 8), in which the same daily protein intake was spread over 4 meals. Both diets provided 1.7 g protein•kg fat-free mass (FFM). Protein accretion and daily protein turnover were determined by using the nitrogen balance method and the end product method (ammonia and urea) after an oral dose of glycine. Nitrogen balance was more positive with the pulse than with the spread diet. Protein turnover rates were also higher with the pulse than with the spread diet, mainly because of higher protein synthesis in the pulse group than in the spread group.

Source: Protein pulse feeding improves protein retention in elderly women; American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 69, No. 6, 1202-1208, June 1999

So in this group it seems that when eating a “protein pulsing” style of having 80% of daily protein in one meal (and 20% later on), it actually increased nitrogen balance, protein turnover and protein synthesis…when compared to the equally spread out diet. In short…they became more anabolically responsive (for the muscle building nerds).

But to be fair, the same study was done on younger (mid 20s) women too, and this time the results were even between the pulse and spread diet. While there was no increases in the nitrogen balance or protein turnover/synthesis for the younger group, there was also no disadvantage from the pulsing pattern.

Lesson to be learned, eating protein in a pulsing style/larger meal (although through the studies up top would go against it) does not decrease the anabolic factors associated with muscle gain. In fact, as we get older and our anabolic sensitivities/responses start to decline (all downhill from 30 after all!), it may be more vital to use such strategies to help keep us more responsive (as the study for protein pulsing was initially done to try and help elderly people from losing muscle with age).

But Post Workout Protein Makes More Muscle ... Right?

While eating protein is part of the building blocks for making more muscle, it is important to know that your body works in the long term and not minute by minute. With that in mind, how about the importance of the post workout shake (as we hear that eating right after a workout increases protein synthesis)? But that “microscience” ignores the overall bigger picture on whole body recovery that has us building muscle long after the “post workout” window. Here’s a study to help show that point:

Twenty healthy men were studied in the evening after consuming a standardized diet throughout the day. Subjects participated in a 2-h exercise session during which beverages containing both carbohydrate and a protein hydrolysate (C+P) or water only (W) were ingested.

During exercise, whole-body and muscle protein synthesis rates increased by 29 and 48% with protein and carbohydrate coingestion.

During subsequent overnight recovery, whole-body protein synthesis was 19% greater in the C+P group than in the W group. However, mean muscle protein synthesis rates during 9 h of overnight recovery did not differ between groups.

We conclude that, even in a fed state, protein and carbohydrate supplementation stimulates muscle protein synthesis during exercise. Ingestion of protein with carbohydrate during and immediately after exercise improves whole-body protein synthesis but does not further augment muscle protein synthesis rates during 9 h of subsequent overnight recovery.

Source: Coingestion of Carbohydrate and Protein Hydrolysate Stimulates Muscle Protein Synthesis during Exercise in Young Men, with No Further Increase during Subsequent Overnight Recovery; Journal of Nutrition, doi:10.3945/jn.108.092924

Confused? Well I’m going to let my buddy Brad Pilon and author of the new ebook “How Much Protein” answer that one:
[Link from his book is: _http://www.theiflife.com/truth-about-protein.php]

What you are looking at is two different measurements of protein synthesis in the human body. “Whole body protein synthesis” is a measurement of the protein synthesis happening in your entire body. This includes things like your liver, heart, lungs, brain GI Track and your muscles. This measurement does not tell you WHICH part of your body the protein synthesis is happening in, just that it is happening. “Muscle protein synthesis” is specifically measuring the amount of protein synthesis that is happening IN your skeletal muscle.

So from the example you posted above, it is obvious that the post workout protein shake increased whole body protein synthesis, but did not increase skeletal muscle protein synthesis. Most likely this means that the extra protein increased protein synthesis in your liver and gastrointestinal tract, but had no measurable effect on your muscles.

So if the point of taking protein before, during, and after your workouts is to build muscle, then the research you quotes seems to say that there would be no additional muscle building effect.

When you have the right kind of recovery and still eat enough [fat!!!] during the day, it seems the “hype” about the post workout window goes away. Honestly unless you are a hard training athlete who needs immediate glycogen replenishment to train again the next day, trying to intake protein (with carbs) during or right after a workout is not necessary.

If people are going to insist on something around workouts, then I would say only a small intake of BCAAs PRE-workout would be most the average person would need. Whether you eat or not immediately after a workout can be up to you, but I wouldn’t base it on some extra muscle building theory.

Higher Protein and Weight Loss

The other part of the equation when it comes to why you eat protein, is about your goals and how many calories you are intaking. Many people use the higher protein intakes when they are looking to lean out and minimize muscle loss. Protein being a harder macronutrient to convert to fat (than carbs or fat), makes it an easy choice to eat more of while keeping carbs/fat low.

Protein will also help you to feel fuller and less likely to overeat on any other macronutrient (fat/carbs). So even if you are intaking more than enough protein to maintain muscle, you are really doing it from another strategy that may include just trying to avoid excess calories and lean out.

Wrapping Up


  • The amount of protein that you REALLY need to build muscle is lower than you think, but you still have to get in enough calories from some place.
    Most people using higher protein based diets are usually trying to lose weight and maintain muscle (by limiting calories from excess fat and carbs). As remember, calories matter when you are trying to lose weight.
  • If your intake of carbs or fats is higher, then your need for protein (as a calorie source only) decreases. Also diets higher in carbs/fats tend to have more nitrogen sparing effect. The issue being making sure you are eating healthy (especially carbs) and not overdo it, as it could easily be stored as fat. This is why many just go the higher protein way, because of an easier route for body composition and they say “well I have to eat something…might as well be more meat!”.
  • The more active you are, the more protein you probably should intake. Most average active people only need about 0.6g/lb of lean body weight. On the high end I would say only need to go 0.8-1.0g/lb bw, but that does not guarantee extra muscle especially when you can up calories from fat/carbs.
    Using IF (intermittent fasting) is not going to make your muscle waste away, but will in fact actually utilize more internal sources for AA (amino acids) such as unused enzymes and junk proteins.

  • Skip the protein shakes and eat real foods….as the additional vitamins, minerals, and essential fats also play a role in building more muscle (and burning fat too). This is also an advantage to knowing you need less protein than originally believed…because you can focus on quality of the source (pastured eggs, grass fed meats) rather than quantity. Which leads to more natural vitamins, minerals and essential fats (including less Omega 6s, more Omega 3s and even some others like CLA proven to help burn fat/build muscle).
  • Unless you are needing immediate muscle glycogen replenishment for the next day of training (athletes), you don’t need that immediate post workout shake/meal.
  • Bodybuilders telling you to eat 300+ grams protein a day and train 5x a week…..are only getting results due to the best genetics (much higher than average protein synthesis capabilities) the world has to offer…or a little help from anabolic hormones (steroids) to increase protein synthesis with that higher protein intake (and frequent workout schedule). The average person could not do much with that strategy (except just burnout).
  • Seems that whether you eat in 2-3 bigger meals (and/or pulse 1 large meal), or 6 smaller meals…..it won’t matter for muscle building. In the long run, the results are the same as long as the total amount of protein is kept constant.

This last point is interesting, and it makes me wonder about the opportunities paleolithic humans had to eat on a regular basis. Was it three times a day, twice a day, once a day or just whenever food was killed and cooked? It seems this intermittent fasting would have happened whether they liked it or not, mostly because they didn't have a refrigerator they could simply pull some bacon or sausage from whenever they felt like it. Of course they may have smoked and dried meat too, and kept it for emergencies.

So there you go. Did it make you rethink how much protein you really need? I wish someone had this talk with me when I was around 16 because I could have saved $1000s over the next 10+ years from not buying all sorts of protein powders/shakes/bars. When it comes to muscle building, having enough protein matters of course….but the amount is smaller than most would think (especially when you can get enough calories in from carbs/fats and have adequate training + recovery).

More reading: If you want more studies to understand how much protein you really need, then I highly recommend Brad Pilon’s How Much Protein ebook, as it is one of the best straight forward and scientifically (and not bodybuilding hyped) based reads on protein out there.
_http://www.theiflife.com/truth-about-protein.php

Source: _http://www.theiflife.com/how-much-protein-per-day-build-muscle/
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Psyche said:
Here are some basics of mitochondrial energetics that are meant highlight the difference between fat burning metabolism vs carb burning metabolism. It is taken for the most part from the LWB thread and it can serve as a useful guide and complement to the videos or other references. It will also help people understand where are some of the names coming from in the papers.

There are many man-made myths surrounding energy production in the body and which foods supply energy. Mainstream science says that carbohydrates are what mitochondria use as fuel for energy production. This process is called oxidative metabolism because oxygen is consumed in the process. The energy produced by mitochondria is stored in a chemical “battery”, a unique molecule called adenosine triphosphate (ATP). Energy-packed ATP can then be transported throughout the cell, releasing energy on demand of specific enzymes. In addition to the fuel they produce, mitochondria also create a by-product related to oxygen called reactive oxygen species (ROS), commonly known as free radicals. But what we are not told is that mitochondria were specifically designed to use fat for energy, not carbohydrate.

There are several very complicated steps in making ATP within mitochondria, but a look at 5 major parts of ATP production will be all that you need to know in order to understand how energy is created within our mitochondria and why fats are the key to optimize their function. Don’t get too focused on specific names, just try to see the whole picture.
..

Mitochondria also have interesting characteristics which differentiate them from all other structural parts of our cells. For instance, they have their own DNA (referred as mtDNA) which is separate from the widely known DNA in the nucleus (referred as n-DNA), and it comes for the most part from the mother line which is why mitochondria is also considered as your feminine life force.
[/quote]

This is best explanation I have read. Thank you psyche for the artcle.

I was going through material and videos to understand fat to energy mechanism. when it comes to fat, information is less and there are video's mostly catered for energy metabolism( but not sure whether it is same for both glucose and fat ) and it looks I understood, but that doesn't last hours, as these videos are so detailed or so high level (and evasive).

feminine life force thing is interesting in view of C's ( or Laura ?) comments.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Laura said:
You know, this remaining in a state of ketosis is interesting. I now realize that I was never in it for long except when fasting and the last time I fasted, it was miserable. I now realize that was probably due to autophagy. Anyway, I'm right about at 3 weeks of my determination to go through whatever misery I have to go through to get to the other side and it hasn't been THAT miserable, thanks to bone broth with added lard and butter. There have been a few rough spots, but it's really been worth it.

I realized today as I was outside inspecting what last night's rain did in terms of water flow and problem areas on the ground, that my body no longer feels like a 60 year-old body. I actually have ZERO pain and my joints seem to be moving with an ease I haven't experienced for something like 30 years. That's today, of course, tomorrow may be different. But for the moment, I'm thinking that this ketosis thing is nothing short of a miracle. I've also gone 5 kilos past my last plateau that I was stuck on for about a year. So I've lost a total of 24 kilos since the beginning of my detox and diet experiments. That's about 53 pounds. I've gone down about 4 dress sizes and that awful stomach fat I was carrying around since my last pregnancy over 20 years ago is finally almost gone. I hated that.

Yes, it is very interesting, I have noticed that upon waking up everyday, there is a sense of "newness" emanating from my body, today was the strongest, very subjective I know, but I have also been able to do one armed pullups & pushups after not working out for over a year, so YAY ketosis!!!
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

bngenoh said:
Laura said:
You know, this remaining in a state of ketosis is interesting. I now realize that I was never in it for long except when fasting and the last time I fasted, it was miserable. I now realize that was probably due to autophagy. Anyway, I'm right about at 3 weeks of my determination to go through whatever misery I have to go through to get to the other side and it hasn't been THAT miserable, thanks to bone broth with added lard and butter. There have been a few rough spots, but it's really been worth it.

I realized today as I was outside inspecting what last night's rain did in terms of water flow and problem areas on the ground, that my body no longer feels like a 60 year-old body. I actually have ZERO pain and my joints seem to be moving with an ease I haven't experienced for something like 30 years. That's today, of course, tomorrow may be different. But for the moment, I'm thinking that this ketosis thing is nothing short of a miracle. I've also gone 5 kilos past my last plateau that I was stuck on for about a year. So I've lost a total of 24 kilos since the beginning of my detox and diet experiments. That's about 53 pounds. I've gone down about 4 dress sizes and that awful stomach fat I was carrying around since my last pregnancy over 20 years ago is finally almost gone. I hated that.

Yes, it is very interesting, I have noticed that upon waking up everyday, there is a sense of "newness" emanating from my body, today was the strongest, very subjective I know, but I have also been able to do one armed pullups & pushups after not working out for over a year, so YAY ketosis!!!

I think I know what you mean about the "newness" feeling. I also seem to wake up most days now ready to embrace the day and straight away wondering what lessons I can learn, instead of slipping into mechanical thoughts as I used to do every morning.

Still struggling with the one armed pullups myself though :P

Also thank you Psyche for that post, it was a great refresher and helped clear a few things up.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Quick update:

About 3 weeks ago I made the transition from PD to KD. Pretty smooth transition since I was 20gm and under during PD. I did go through a couple of drag days early on that I thought might be due to coconut oil in my tea. I stopped the oil and a few days later introduced it again as a test. No prob with it since so it was probably the transition.

I dropped another 5-10lbs down to 150 (5'10") which feels quite right. With very little hunger on fast days (plus broth/fat in the afternoon).

Over that time I've done a few kettlebell sessions, but other than that - not much. Yesterday I put a lot of resistance work into moving much cut wood from the forest to storage. Normally this would leave me pretty sore in a few places for a day or two. But this time - not a single ache or sore muscle. This is definitely due to the KD!

BTW, thanks Psyche for the writeup - great summary. My mother read it too and she sends her thanks. :) :cool2:
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Carlise said:
bngenoh said:
Yes, it is very interesting, I have noticed that upon waking up everyday, there is a sense of "newness" emanating from my body, today was the strongest, very subjective I know, but I have also been able to do one armed pullups & pushups after not working out for over a year, so YAY ketosis!!!

I think I know what you mean about the "newness" feeling. I also seem to wake up most days now ready to embrace the day and straight away wondering what lessons I can learn, instead of slipping into mechanical thoughts as I used to do every morning.

Still struggling with the one armed pullups myself though :P

Also thank you Psyche for that post, it was a great refresher and helped clear a few things up.

Yes, thanks Psyche :D As for the feeling of "newness" I feel the same way. I hate going to bed at night simply because I want more time to explore and learn. And when I wake up in the morning I'm usually pumped to get going. Throughout the day this is tempered by the terror of our reality, being around funky people and my own programs, but still I can relate to the "newness" just the same.
 
Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So if protein synthesis in the liver and gut is increasing, what does this mean? Is it possible this extra synthesis is mainly a result of the load of digesting the protein? Could the pancreas be using protein to construct enzymes to break down the protein? And then, if the body is not using it, where does the protein go, just back out again?

If it's not used for muscles, not used for anything else except perhaps to build enzymes (does your body need regular protein more to produce digestive enzymes?), and gluconeogenesis increases only a little bit, then where does the extra protein go?

Also, when thinking about sources of probiotics I realized, hesitantly, that breastmilk might be a good source for probiotics applicable to humans. But then there's the chicken and the egg thing, and... Maybe we should just be content with dirt or sauerkraut?
 
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