Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Foxx]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So if protein synthesis in the liver and gut is increasing, what does this mean? Is it possible this extra synthesis is mainly a result of the load of digesting the protein? Could the pancreas be using protein to construct enzymes to break down the protein? And then, if the body is not using it, where does the protein go, just back out again?

If it's not used for muscles, not used for anything else except perhaps to build enzymes (does your body need regular protein more to produce digestive enzymes?), and gluconeogenesis increases only a little bit, then where does the extra protein go?

From my experience, I'm pretty convinced that the mTOR pathway research is correct and the excess protein turns to glucose and/or body fat. I gained weight, which I hadn't really done for a long time, when I was eating way too much protein (now since lost) and also had blood sugar issues. I think the quote that said that the excess protein problem doesn't exist was from someone who didn't know what they were talking about. Remember, not all "research" is factual.

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So if protein synthesis in the liver and gut is increasing, what does this mean? Is it possible this extra synthesis is mainly a result of the load of digesting the protein? Could the pancreas be using protein to construct enzymes to break down the protein? And then, if the body is not using it, where does the protein go, just back out again?

The information Nathan posted about increased protein synthesis should be looked at in terms of a weight training/body sculpting perspective and not necessarily what we're trying to accomplish. What those experiments were ultimately looking at was how to build muscle in the most efficient manner possible. When they're talking about protein synthesis, they're talking about muscle building. Although we are looking to increase muscle mass to a certain extent to increase mitochondrial numbers, we're not engaging in body builder protocols. I think Nathan posted this article because it discusses ideal protein intake, but we need to pick through the irrelevant material there.

From my experience, I'm pretty convinced that the mTOR pathway research is correct and the excess protein turns to glucose and/or body fat. I gained weight, which I hadn't really done for a long time, when I was eating way too much protein (now since lost) and also had blood sugar issues. I think the quote that said that the excess protein problem doesn't exist was from someone who didn't know what they were talking about. Remember, not all "research" is factual.

I don't think that's true, and it's a little harsh to say they don't know what they're talking about. That article was well-researched with scientific studies used to back up reasoning. While I don't think the subject is closed, and I don't think the author was presenting it as such, I also don't think her hypothesis should be rejected outright. I'm inclined to believe that excess protein is converted to sugar also, but the author seems to be honestly trying to get to the bottom of a question she has, and I think it's a valid question. Remember, even though not all research is factual, we shouldn't reject hypotheses just because they contradict what we already "know". This is how we learn :)
Here's another link to the article in question, if anyone needs it - http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html

 

[Foxx]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

From my experience, I'm pretty convinced that the mTOR pathway research is correct and the excess protein turns to glucose and/or body fat. I gained weight, which I hadn't really done for a long time, when I was eating way too much protein (now since lost) and also had blood sugar issues. I think the quote that said that the excess protein problem doesn't exist was from someone who didn't know what they were talking about. Remember, not all "research" is factual.

I don't think that's true, and it's a little harsh to say they don't know what they're talking about. That article was well-researched with scientific studies used to back up reasoning. While I don't think the subject is closed, and I don't think the author was presenting it as such, I also don't think her hypothesis should be rejected outright. I'm inclined to believe that excess protein is converted to sugar also, but the author seems to be honestly trying to get to the bottom of a question she has, and I think it's a valid question. Remember, even though not all research is factual, we shouldn't reject hypotheses just because they contradict what we already "know". This is how we learn :)
Here's another link to the article in question, if anyone needs it - http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html

You're right dugdeep--I was being a little too harsh. Reading through the article (thanks for reposting the link!), it does provide some interesting evidence and claims, though I do find it unlikely that the blood sugar, hunger, and weight increase issues that I had when eating too much protein were from a source other than the excess protein and data here from others seems to concur with such observations. Perhaps, however, there is another mechanism at play that I/we're not aware of. Overall, though, the evidence supporting the healthfulness of protein restriction does seem pretty strong, though the specifics for the proper range doesn't seem entirely resolved.

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

From my experience, I'm pretty convinced that the mTOR pathway research is correct and the excess protein turns to glucose and/or body fat. I gained weight, which I hadn't really done for a long time, when I was eating way too much protein (now since lost) and also had blood sugar issues. I think the quote that said that the excess protein problem doesn't exist was from someone who didn't know what they were talking about. Remember, not all "research" is factual.

I don't think that's true, and it's a little harsh to say they don't know what they're talking about. That article was well-researched with scientific studies used to back up reasoning. While I don't think the subject is closed, and I don't think the author was presenting it as such, I also don't think her hypothesis should be rejected outright. I'm inclined to believe that excess protein is converted to sugar also, but the author seems to be honestly trying to get to the bottom of a question she has, and I think it's a valid question. Remember, even though not all research is factual, we shouldn't reject hypotheses just because they contradict what we already "know". This is how we learn :)
Here's another link to the article in question, if anyone needs it - http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html

You're right dugdeep--I was being a little too harsh. Reading through the article (thanks for reposting the link!), it does provide some interesting evidence and claims, though I do find it unlikely that the blood sugar, hunger, and weight increase issues that I had when eating too much protein were from a source other than the excess protein and data here from others seems to concur with such observations. Perhaps, however, there is another mechanism at play that I/we're not aware of. Overall, though, the evidence supporting the healthfulness of protein restriction does seem pretty strong, though the specifics for the proper range doesn't seem entirely resolved.

Yeah, I agree. I still think that exess protein's converting to sugar is the best explanation and, like you, my own experience supports this. I'm going to keep an eye on their site, though, to see what they come up with.

 

[Yas]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?



Hello!

Well... I haven't finished reading all this thread yet (it goes really fast! :D) but I am looking at it carefully and going through the papers and stuff. I have to say that I got addicted to reading this stuff. It so good to know what actually happens in the body when you eat! I just love it.

As for my diet. I have been on a gluten-dairy free diet for about two years already, and this was one of the best changes I did in my life. My health became excellent. I almost don't have any health problems, or at least I'm not aware of them. :/

Just lately, I lost some weight and became REALLY skinny (I was already skinny before), then I started having acne problems (I never had acne in my life) and I started feeling as if I didn't have a energy. I have to confess that this happened when things started to get really hard in my life with a relationship that I had. And my body got worse when the things here in Paraguay went crazy... with the protests, the killings, the impeachment, and the new government selling out the country to Monsanto, Rio Tinto and some Oil Companies. I started working as some kind of journalist in this period so I wasn't able to eat properly and I was moving around a lot. This brings me to the conclusion that this symptoms were due to stress (I was stressed and I continue to be, but I'm dealing with it by balancing the diet and practicing EE every day) and the dietary changes that I had during this period.

Last week and this one I decided to restrict my carb intake. I have to say that I have always been a sweet addict, so I thought it would be really had for me to restrict carbs too much. Yet my experience was great. I started eating meat everyday, bacon (I had never had bacon before in my life... OMG! WHAT A DELICIOUS THING!!!), eggs... Everything cooked with animal fat rendered at home. Every time we cook pork or beef we save the fat that comes out and we use that in all our meals. I still eat some veggies, but in very small quantities and sometimes I have some sugar-free fruit juice, but I just take half a cup of it.

I try to keep my carbs intake lower than 30g a day and I didn't add that much fat yet. I don't want to go straight to zero carbs because I still have to read all the material you provided and this thread. I'm planning to ask our organic veggies and meat provider to bring us the fatty parts of porks they usually throw away, as some of you mentioned, and I will also ask for some liver in order to try preparing the liver paté. In this way I will be able to add some more fat into the diet. I'm also very motivated to prepare the bone broth you all mentioned. ;D As I told you before I have been a vegetarian all my childhood so all this cooking with meat is quite new to me and it gets me really motivated to learn all this different options. At the beginning of my diet changes I couldn't tolerate a lot of meat in my diet, but now it is OK.

During this first 2 weeks, I have been extremely well. I've been having some carbs cravings but I easily recognize them and differ them from being hungry. Concentrating on something and doing some pipe breath has been of great help for that. I don't feel dizzy, or tired or nothing. And my skin has improved as well. I don't have a lot of bowel movements and the stools are a little dry, I guess this will improve when I start eating some more fat. I do not have the sticks to try the ketosis, and I don't think I am in Ketosis since I still eat carbs. But my breath is definitively different...

I practice kung fu 3 times a week. The kung fu trainings are a mix of endurance exercises, stretches as well as resistance exercises -in the form of push ups, lifting the legs up and down, sitting up and going down, etc -. I guess I should try to concentrate a little more on the resistance exercises though. The good thing is that this Kung Fu Master is not the typical one that does exercises that hurt you -as a lot of martial arts Masters do - He takes care of us and doesn't want us to hurt our body, so it is pretty cool. I am researching on this as well as I really enjoy working out and I find it great to know that I'm doing something that heals me deeply. During last week I felt great in my trainings, no energy issues.

I also did some IF but I wasn't planning it... On weekends I work in another town, and I didn't want to eat something cooked with vegetable oil or corn and so on, so I had breakfast and then I didn't had the time to have dinner so I just ate on the other day at breakfast, around 9:00 AM. It was great! I didn't feel anything... not hungry, not dizzy, not low in energy... Just normal. And I have to say this is quite amazing for me because I have never been able to fast before. I couldn't stay without eating for more than 4-5 hours and I would feel dizzy and probably faint if I didn't eat something. I imagine that I was VERY dependent on carbs because since I was born, I was a LOW-FAT vegetarian, with lots of sugar and wheat.

So being able to stay 12-18 hours without eating is quite an improvement. :)

Yesterday I ate too much carbs... A friend had his birthday and I drank a glass of bear (alcohol, gluten and carbs) :/ It was horrible. My stomach felt it right away and today my energy levels aren't as high as the last 2 weeks and I couldn't get up early in the morning as I usually do. I also noticed before that when I eat any type of grains or if I eat too much carbs I get some acne the day after. So, I think I have to gradually go to zero carbs... But I will take it easy... :)

My weight is getting better since I started the Kunf Fu and since I eat more fat. I started having some muscles and at least I don't look THAT skinny.... :D

I'm sorry that I got this long. I really wanted to share this great experience with you. This thing about mtDNA reminds me of my little brother saying that humans 'evolved' because they eat veggies... 'evolving' being something he doesn't want because he thinks that we lost our original 'powers' by evolving... :D

What struck me as I was reading all this material is this: what if the "ascension process" much touted in esoterica is exactly this: figuring out how to heal and activate DNA? What if, by these studies and experiments, we manage to activate/accelerate "soul seating" capacity and "receivership capability"??? What if this is part of "it's not where you are, but who you are and what you see"? Perhaps, by aligning with our paleolithic ancestors who painted caves and decorated the earth with megaliths, and restoring our DNA to that more similar to theirs, we might acquire, along the way, some of their abilities?

I have a feeling that this is so true. Yet, lets keep on with the data and the experience to check where it goes. I always remember Don Juan saying once that the idea was to clean our connection to what is called in Spanish 'El Intento', I don't know how you translate it but I gues it refers to the Original Source, the Cosmic Mind, The Absolute...etc. Or maybe... our higher selfs. :) I guess that cleaning and healing our bodies helps us in cleansing of our hart and mind so that we are more capable of connecting with this sources, amplifying our receivership capability... Just a thought! ;)

Once again... I'm sorry for the extension of my post.

The best regards to all of you and THANKS A LOT! I sometimes try to send you my best wishes when doing EE, as an act of gratitude over all the work that you are doing, and all this learning opportunity that you are providing... :)

ciao

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...Just lately, I lost some weight and became REALLY skinny (I was already skinny before), then I started having acne problems (I never had acne in my life) and I started feeling as if I didn't have a energy. I have to confess that this happened when things started to get really hard in my life with a relationship that I had. And my body got worse when the things here in Paraguay went crazy... with the protests, the killings, the impeachment, and the new government selling out the country to Monsanto, Rio Tinto and some Oil Companies. I started working as some kind of journalist in this period so I wasn't able to eat properly and I was moving around a lot. This brings me to the conclusion that this symptoms were due to stress (I was stressed and I continue to be, but I'm dealing with it by balancing the diet and practicing EE every day) and the dietary changes that I had during this period...

Could be. You might find this interesting: _http://chriskresser.com/naturally-get-rid-of-acne-by-fixing-your-gut

 

[Gawan]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I can report similar symptoms since restricting carbs and eating less proteins: weak and shaky legs, less smoking and also at one point heart palpitations. Also I need about two naps a day (at least this day). Hopefully the energy level is increasing with time, cause going to bed in the middle of the day and waking up takes about 2-3 hours.

 

[zim]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Ketosis made us human :)

Great info and fantastic quote to wake up to this morning. Thanks. :)

Yes thanks Psyche very good information!!!

You know, this remaining in a state of ketosis is interesting. I now realize that I was never in it for long except when fasting and the last time I fasted, it was miserable. I now realize that was probably due to autophagy. Anyway, I'm right about at 3 weeks of my determination to go through whatever misery I have to go through to get to the other side and it hasn't been THAT miserable, thanks to bone broth with added lard and butter. There have been a few rough spots, but it's really been worth it.

That´s great Laura that you and the others in the chateau have found out this diet and the good results on your own!!! ;D

I have been feeling yesterday and today with low energy but not starving as before when I ate carbs, think that it is part of the process in ketosis and autophagy period, today I wake up with too much pain in all my joints ate a full breakfast with much butter.

Another benefit... on ketosis, I seem to be able to tolerate eggs much better. That's a real plus, IMO!

I ate a lot of eggs during this year but suddenly I notice that the next morning when I woke up, I felt in such body pain and low energy so I stopped eating eggs and the pain gone!!! It could be that I make some resistant to the eggs??? I really miss morning eggs!!!! Now that Laura have posted this info about her tolerate eggs much better is a such good news to me !!!

 

[QuantumLogic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have a question. Due to a problem with payroll in the company I work for, I will be missing a large enough portion of my salary until the next payroll period. Unfortunately, this means I will not be able to place my 50 lb. order for grass fed/finished femur bones to make broth with the next two weeks. Although it is not ideal, is it acceptable to get a few small packages from the local store and supplement omega 3's for the imbalance? I really don't know what to do in this situation, and the thought of all the toxins in the fat from mass produced beef bones is making me wonder if this is really such a good idea. I don't see an alternative, though, as I obviously cannot go without eating for two weeks.

Any suggestions at this point would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[liffy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Any suggestions at this point would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Sardines, herring, and other small cold water fishes could be a good replacement. When eating these, you usually end up eating quite a bit of bones, not to mention the excellent fats in the meat itself.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I can report similar symptoms since restricting carbs and eating less proteins: weak and shaky legs, less smoking and also at one point heart palpitations. Also I need about two naps a day (at least this day). Hopefully the energy level is increasing with time, cause going to bed in the middle of the day and waking up takes about 2-3 hours.

Gawan, it may be that you might try what I had to do, just push through this sort of thing until the wild mtDNA begins to proliferate. And the only way I found to do that is to have the bone broth at least two times a day, sometimes three, with added lard and butter, though you may wish to avoid butter. I would just drink it out of a cup like tea. And the pretty-close-to-exact amount of protein in some form. Then, also, the potassium and a couple of magnesiums at night before bed. It really can take a couple of weeks of this total fatigue while apoptosis and autophagy is going on. I also have made it a point to get some weight lifting in so that at least a few clumps of muscles in my body get strained to that point of exhausting/burn that is described as necessary to activate the mtDNA in the peripheral fibers.

Some of us are just in worse shape than others and it takes some determination to push through to the other side. But I feel so much better now at going into 4 weeks.

 

[Pierre]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I will not be able to place my 50 lb. order for grass fed/finished femur bones to make broth with the next two weeks.

Did you try calling the bones supplier and tell him the truth? You would like those bones because they are healthy but due to payroll problem you'll get your money later than expected. You can also propose to make a downpayment.

 

[Cosmos]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

one question: what is it that makes the water in a BONE BROTH jelly like? could it be protein? and if so how much protein is in it when cooked?

 

[QuantumLogic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I really hadn't thought of that approach- thanks Belibaste. I'm not sure they will go for it, being on online seller, but it's worth a shot. The place is baldwingrassfedbeef.com. Here is a link to the bones-

http://www.baldwingrassfedbeef.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=46

I contacted them before ordering, asking if they are grass finished as well, and I received a reply from them stating they are fed only grass. The people there are quite helpful, and 50 lbs. of bones with shipping in dry ice is only about $128. This might be a good source for others here in the US that do not have local suppliers of grass fed beef. I'm still trying to find a good supplier of pork bones with reasonable shipping rates. There is actually a lot of local suppliers of grass fed beef where I live, but it is far too expensive- almost 3 times what Baldwin wants for the same weight.

 

[QuantumLogic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

one question: what is it that makes the water in a BONE BROTH jelly like? could it be protein? and if so how much protein is in it when cooked?

While this may not be accurate, in the local store I looked at the USDA label for some femur bones. It stated 21 grams of fat, but 19 grams of protein. If this amount is similar to grass fed beef bones, then it would seem there is quite the amount of protein in the bones as well. I would guess that adding enough extra fat to the broth would be crucial, depending on serving size. Otherwise protein intake would be far too high per meal, causing the overabundance to be converted. Perhaps the meals with bone broth should be only that, with nothing else- depending on serving size, osit.