Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Scottie]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

If we're on a journey, that would mean that this 'diet' is constantly evolving and from the time we've been on it, that may well be the case. Imagine how difficult it would have been to go from our initial crap diets directly to the current IF - that would've been quite a feat!

I would say it would be nearly impossible. From sugar and gluten addiction, to candida, to detox, adjustment to Paleo functioning, and now KD... I think if a person tried to do all that at once, it could even make those with weak systems gravely ill.

And that's one of the things that I think will be very interesting with crop failures on a massive scale and the increasing price of food!

In other news, all is well on the KD front for me. My digestion is actually totally normal now. No upset tummy lately, either. I'm currently in Week #4.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So it looks like perhaps feeling "too good" and full of energy during carb restriction could be a bad thing too. Best to go slow and not stimulate adrenaline by dropping carbs off a cliff (perhaps dropping 12-24 carbs per week is a good pace minding one's symptoms? Until it comes time for "cold turkey" anyways?). Could adrenaline be another potential source of the "euphoria" experience aside from beta-hydroxybutyrate (BHB)? Interesting that low stomach acid is a result of this.

You are taking her explanation completely out of the context. She is referring to a stress response from a diet high in carbs. Eating lots of fats stimulates your vagus nerve, which is a relaxing and anti-inflammatory pathway.

 

[Chu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have to say that I'm drinking bone broth once a day, due to my working hours, so I drink a bowl at 5 or 6 pm, and that's all for my dinner.

You could increase that amount and have it earlier if you take it to work in a thermos.

As breakfast: bacon and eggs, or pork chop or sausages(all with lard, butter and liver paté). As lunch a bit of meat (about 150 gm) and 100 or 150 gr of veggies(lettuce or cucumber).

FWIW, I found that what works best for me is to eat absolutely NO carbs. Not even lettuce. Who needs that evil fiber anyway? ;)

I'm working out one or two hours a day and I feel my muscles are working fine.

That's not necessary. Half an hour of intense workout every 2 days is best, from what we've read. The recuperating time is very important.

Following Andromeda's suggestions about working out, I have increased the amount of weight I can lift in a month, more than ever before. I started out with barely 5 kgs for my arms, and 18 for my legs (a bit more or less depending on the exercise). Now, I go to the gym every two days, try to do at least 3 repetitions of the heaviest weight I can do that with, then reduce the weight a bit and do as many repetitions a I can, and then a bit more with a lighter weight if I still have strength. Yesterday I was able to lift 35 kgs with my arms and 50 with my legs. That's almost my body weight!! I find this amazing, in so little time, and with such a short amount of time spent on working out. So, I would suggest that you try this out too.

To summarize:
- Work out for only 1/2 hour every 2 days.
- Start out with a heavier weight than you think you can lift, and do at least 3 repetitions (If it's not possible, do that with the weight below).
- Do the same exercise with the weight below, for as many repetitions as you can.
- That for roughly one minute total.
- Rest for 1 or 2 minutes.
- Move to the next exercise and do the same with each exercise.
- Stretch all your muscles.
- Rest for one day, and then do the same. This time, you might be able to do 5 repetitions on the heaviest weight, or even increase your maximum weight again.

You can have a pretty good routine and work pretty much every muscle that way. I think you'll see a good result. Also, for some reason, even though I have done this heavy workout (for me that's a lot!), I have no muscle aches afterwards. It's cool!

In order to motivate myself, I have this goal: to be able to lift someone at least my weight. I imagine a case when somebody might need help, and the only solution is to carry them out of danger. It makes working out more interesting that way. Also, imagining carrying heavy logs, or whatever, in times of need.

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So, a spike in insulin causes the body to begin pulling sugar out of the blood. The response is so powerful the blood sugar actually goes too low, which causes the things I quoted. So, eating a gob of sugar can cause hyperglycemia and then hypoglycemia but just not eating any carbs cannot, ever cause hypoglycemia? If so, it is making sense to me.

If you imagine a chart with columns of the headings "carbs" "no carbs" and "tons of sugar", and rows of the titles "hypoglycemia" "hyperglycemia", and add to this all the other pertinent categories you can imagine, you will get every combination of results from a given meal. As I read, I can fill in many of the spaces in this chart. I can extrapolate other spaces based on the patterns I'm taught, or equations. Some can be deduced, others can only be learned by rote or empirically. Most people fill in many more of these spaces than I do while studying a given topic. One factor is that they make assumptions to fill the spaces, confusing correlation with causation and whatnot. But I think more often I just can't penetrate the text. I always seem to need someone to point out what I missed. Much of what I learned about designing amplifiers came to me while my peers stared incredulously, taken back by gross misunderstandings. Now among them I am considered skilled, except that I don't use math as exclusively as those smarter than I am. This is one of the things I am hoping will improve with diet. Megan's talk about "overcoming a severe lifelong pathological limitation" seems to describe my situation as well as many people I know. It has improved a bit since getting rid of giuten and as many bad foods as I can keep track of.

 

[Nienna]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Also remember that protein is actually the most satiating macronutrient, not fat (see this Paul Jamminet article for more on that). I'm not saying this is what's happening, but that "never hungry" affect might be coming from higher protein in the diet.

This is just my experience, so please take it as a fwiw.

Before starting the KD, I had started eating less fat and more protein and I was VERY hungry much earlier in the day than I was when eating less protein and more fat. Just my experience, as I said above.

I've found that now on the KD, the more fat I eat and the less protein, the fuller I become and the less hungry I am later in the day.

 

[Tomek]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

To summarize:

...

At what time of the day do you practice your exercises?

 

[dugdeep]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So, a spike in insulin causes the body to begin pulling sugar out of the blood. The response is so powerful the blood sugar actually goes too low, which causes the things I quoted. So, eating a gob of sugar can cause hyperglycemia and then hypoglycemia but just not eating any carbs cannot, ever cause hypoglycemia? If so, it is making sense to me.

That's correct. You eat carbs and the body responds by releasing insulin to get blood sugar back down. The higher glycemic the carb, the sharper the blood sugar rise and the more insulin that gets released. Too much insulin leads to blood sugar dropping below the stable range and hypoglycemia results. Adrenals release stress hormones to raise blood sugar back up to normal. Chronically riding this roller-coaster leads to adrenal burnout (the adrenals were not designed to be activated after every meal!). Low carb does not lead to this pattern, although if protein is too high and is converted to glucose, it might (I was experiencing low blood sugar type symptoms when my protein was too high).

[quote author=monotonic]
If you imagine a chart with columns of the headings "carbs" "no carbs" and "tons of sugar", and rows of the titles "hypoglycemia" "hyperglycemia", and add to this all the other pertinent categories you can imagine, you will get every combination of results from a given meal. As I read, I can fill in many of the spaces in this chart. I can extrapolate other spaces based on the patterns I'm taught, or equations. Some can be deduced, others can only be learned by rote or empirically. Most people fill in many more of these spaces than I do while studying a given topic. One factor is that they make assumptions to fill the spaces, confusing correlation with causation and whatnot. But I think more often I just can't penetrate the text. I always seem to need someone to point out what I missed. Much of what I learned about designing amplifiers came to me while my peers stared incredulously, taken back by gross misunderstandings. Now among them I am considered skilled, except that I don't use math as exclusively as those smarter than I am. This is one of the things I am hoping will improve with diet. Megan's talk about "overcoming a severe lifelong pathological limitation" seems to describe my situation as well as many people I know. It has improved a bit since getting rid of giuten and as many bad foods as I can keep track of.
[/quote]

If charting it is how you need to picture it, I don't see a problem with that. But from what you're describing here, it sounds like you might be dealing with a learning disability. You may have some sort of block that doesn't allow you to learn in a certain way, or some sort of thinking pattern that interferes with learning. I don't know this, of course, but just thought I'd bring up the possibility. I'm sure that the diet will help with this, but you might want to explore the detox and psychology topics on this forum, too. Pathological trauma early in life can lead to disordered thinking patterns, also. Are you doing EE?

Just FWIW.

 

[Chu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

At what time of the day do you practice your exercises?

Between 5 and 6 pm, before dinner. I'm not sure that matters, though. But for some of us it just feels better not to work out too late, and then have some broth or a light dinner at around 6-7 pm. Others here do their workout a bit earlier, aroud 3-4pm. You can try and see what time is better for you.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Also remember that protein is actually the most satiating macronutrient, not fat (see this Paul Jamminet article for more on that). I'm not saying this is what's happening, but that "never hungry" affect might be coming from higher protein in the diet.

This is just my experience, so please take it as a fwiw.

Before starting the KD, I had started eating less fat and more protein and I was VERY hungry much earlier in the day than I was when eating less protein and more fat. Just my experience, as I said above.

I've found that now on the KD, the more fat I eat and the less protein, the fuller I become and the less hungry I am later in the day.

I am the same ... I eat my allocated protein and control satiety with fat. Works very well!

I am not so sure Paul Jamminets article is really relevant here. As long as you eat any significant amount of carbs you won't be in ketosis. As long as you are not in ketosis (on a more or less constant basis) your metabolism is quite different from what we are doing. So to say that high-protein is more satiating might be true in the presence of carbs, but when in ketosis the body utilizes fat wherever it comes from - either from external sources or from fat stores.

As many of us have experienced, hunger seems not to be a major issue when in ketosis - and even more so for cravings.

 

[Ollie]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

At what time of the day do you practice your exercises?

Between 5 and 6 pm, before dinner. I'm not sure that matters, though. But for some of us it just feels better not to work out too late, and then have some broth or a light dinner at around 6-7 pm. Others here do their workout a bit earlier, aroud 3-4pm. You can try and see what time is better for you.

Dr Jack Kruse recommends exercising, or working out, between 1pm and 5pm for optimal results. This may help, or not.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

This is just my experience, so please take it as a fwiw.

Before starting the KD, I had started eating less fat and more protein and I was VERY hungry much earlier in the day than I was when eating less protein and more fat. Just my experience, as I said above.

I've found that now on the KD, the more fat I eat and the less protein, the fuller I become and the less hungry I am later in the day.

I am the same ... I eat my allocated protein and control satiety with fat. Works very well!

Same here. A bowl of fat rich broth and I'm good for half a day. A bit of meat, and I'm hungry again in a few hours. More meat, more hunger.

Restricting protein to just what you need really is key to being comfortable and staying in ketosis.

 

[MK Scarlett]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

At what time of the day do you practice your exercises?

Between 5 and 6 pm, before dinner. I'm not sure that matters, though. But for some of us it just feels better not to work out too late, and then have some broth or a light dinner at around 6-7 pm. Others here do their workout a bit earlier, aroud 3-4pm. You can try and see what time is better for you.

Dr Jack Kruse recommends exercising, or working out, between 1pm and 5pm for optimal results. This may help, or not.

I remember he also noticed to NOT working out in the morning. And I use to make it around 3pm. Without any aches which was not the case when I made exercises before entering KD as mentionned by Ailén previously. ;)

This is just my experience, so please take it as a fwiw.

Before starting the KD, I had started eating less fat and more protein and I was VERY hungry much earlier in the day than I was when eating less protein and more fat. Just my experience, as I said above.

I've found that now on the KD, the more fat I eat and the less protein, the fuller I become and the less hungry I am later in the day.

I am the same ... I eat my allocated protein and control satiety with fat. Works very well!

Same here. A bowl of fat rich broth and I'm good for half a day. A bit of meat, and I'm hungry again in a few hours. More meat, more hunger.

Restricting protein to just what you need really is key to being comfortable and staying in ketosis.

The same here too, as I could noticed these last days after having still decreased the quantity of proteins in almost not much. :P

Edit: Adding "having still decreased the quantity of proteins in almost not much."

 

[Gimpy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I would suggest NOT using bird bones for the broth. Also, pork and lamb make excellent broth. Beef is NOT the "only game in town" out there, ya know. MOST of our broth is pork based though we do get plenty of beef bones. Sometimes we mix them. Cook with a bit of salt and pepper and, if tolerated, a bit of garlic. I wouldn't cook it on high, but rather on low heat.

Geeze, people, how many times does this have to be repeated?

I'm a knucklehead in between mugs, my dear. Its all good. :D

However folks get the broth down the hatch, as long as it gets there, that's good enough. Fwiw.

Making another batch up with beef ribs and whatever other bones are in the freezer. (After the spider fight in the master closet, which is today's cleaning du jour.)

I like experimenting with different bones, different seasonings, adding other batches of broths. Its fun, not a chore or chemistry class.

 

[jhonny]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have to say that I'm drinking bone broth once a day, due to my working hours, so I drink a bowl at 5 or 6 pm, and that's all for my dinner.

You could increase that amount and have it earlier if you take it to work in a thermos.

Good point, I hadn't thought about it!

As breakfast: bacon and eggs, or pork chop or sausages(all with lard, butter and liver paté). As lunch a bit of meat (about 150 gm) and 100 or 150 gr of veggies(lettuce or cucumber).

FWIW, I found that what works best for me is to eat absolutely NO carbs. Not even lettuce. Who needs that evil fiber anyway? ;)

You're right Ailén, I did it to variate the taste.

 

[Psalehesost]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

[quote author=monotonic]
If you imagine a chart with columns of the headings "carbs" "no carbs" and "tons of sugar", and rows of the titles "hypoglycemia" "hyperglycemia", and add to this all the other pertinent categories you can imagine, you will get every combination of results from a given meal. As I read, I can fill in many of the spaces in this chart. I can extrapolate other spaces based on the patterns I'm taught, or equations. Some can be deduced, others can only be learned by rote or empirically. Most people fill in many more of these spaces than I do while studying a given topic. One factor is that they make assumptions to fill the spaces, confusing correlation with causation and whatnot. But I think more often I just can't penetrate the text. I always seem to need someone to point out what I missed. Much of what I learned about designing amplifiers came to me while my peers stared incredulously, taken back by gross misunderstandings. Now among them I am considered skilled, except that I don't use math as exclusively as those smarter than I am. This is one of the things I am hoping will improve with diet. Megan's talk about "overcoming a severe lifelong pathological limitation" seems to describe my situation as well as many people I know. It has improved a bit since getting rid of giuten and as many bad foods as I can keep track of.

If charting it is how you need to picture it, I don't see a problem with that. But from what you're describing here, it sounds like you might be dealing with a learning disability. You may have some sort of block that doesn't allow you to learn in a certain way, or some sort of thinking pattern that interferes with learning. I don't know this, of course, but just thought I'd bring up the possibility. I'm sure that the diet will help with this, but you might want to explore the detox and psychology topics on this forum, too. Pathological trauma early in life can lead to disordered thinking patterns, also. Are you doing EE?

Just FWIW.
[/quote]

My experience studying math, which may help or not: A few years ago, I simply couldn't quite learn most math topics to a sufficient extent to pass any university-level course, whereas I could still ace programming courses.

I later realized that I had made my way for many years by "intuitive smarts", up to the point where it no longer worked - where suddenly more was needed - and had not learned to technically think in the required way. Strictly speaking, many people actually don't think technically - there is simply an associative activity running in their minds, be it with or without effort, which is actually not quite the same. (The difference has to be learned by experience.)

Three things changed, leading to a process of learning to think and understand in a more real way in a technical context:
[list type=decimal]
[*]The diet.
[*]Tobacco usage.
[*]Exercising the brain by:

• Finding something I could read and work hard to understand - effortful but doable - something to push my limits.
• Keeping at it, and working on several intellectual challenges.

[/list]

The diet, I think, won't magically "cure" a brain that has yet to learn how to learn - it will, along with other changes, make new efforts and struggles possible, and through this make progress viable - but effort, lots of it, is also needed. The challenge is a big one: To get the intellectual center in shape, make it function properly.

Or, stated differently: The challenge is to rewire one's brain. The diet and other changes will give it the potential to change, but one must also direct that potential, make use of it - manifest it.

For me, this process of getting my mind into shape is still ongoing, but there has been and continues to be significant and measurable progress.