Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Adding niacin may actually inhibit the natural processes.

However, it may be that adding some extra initially could help with the transition. As we all experienced here, the transition can be rough!

At the present time, even though I have relaxed exercise diligence and have had a bit more salad (like one every three days instead of none), and have introduced coffee and pure cream, I STILL feel changes going on in my body!

The important supplements for me still seem to be occasional potassium and magnesium. But even this seems to be less needful with daily bone broth.

As I mentioned in the Hidradenitis thread, "three years ago, I would not have been able to travel for ten hours, and certainly not just two days after returning from a three day trip with a 4 hour train ride each direction. I would have been laid up in bed for a week or longer. But heck, I got home, felt fine, hit the ground running! No swelling, no pain, no excessive tiredness. Amazing."

And:

"I can only say that it takes time. And the older a person is, and the more they abused their body, the longer it may take. But this experiment with KD and the exercise really did something, I think. I'm not being faithful about the exercising right now, but we were dedicated for the 6 initial weeks of getting into good ketosis and stimulating mtDNA, and it seems to be an ongoing process. Heck, my legs don't feel like they are weighted with lead anymore when I climb the stairs! And I actually have fairly fast reactions to taking in nourishment that I never had before: I can feel the body utilizing the fuel and the heat rising! I've been cold all my life and now, all of a sudden, just have a bowl of broth and I warm right up!"

Kicking the wild mtDNA back into play may initiate a whole cascade of changes that go on for some time and that does seem to be a key component of the process along with minimized protein intake and adequate fat intake.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Adding niacin may actually inhibit the natural processes.

Not sure about that ... niacin has a ton of other effects on the body too. I will keep on taking it for the moment, although I am upping the dose slowly. At the same time I'll monitor blood BOHB and see what happens. So far I haven't detected a marked decrease in levels.

But I have slacked off diet- and sport-wise too. Eating a little bit of veggies every day. Added coffee, but not cream (abdo cramps).

Not yet sure what the story is with my lipids off the chart.

 

[Gimpy]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Adding niacin may actually inhibit the natural processes.

However, it may be that adding some extra initially could help with the transition. As we all experienced here, the transition can be rough!

At the present time, even though I have relaxed exercise diligence and have had a bit more salad (like one every three days instead of none), and have introduced coffee and pure cream, I STILL feel changes going on in my body!

The important supplements for me still seem to be occasional potassium and magnesium. But even this seems to be less needful with daily bone broth.

As I mentioned in the Hidradenitis thread, "three years ago, I would not have been able to travel for ten hours, and certainly not just two days after returning from a three day trip with a 4 hour train ride each direction. I would have been laid up in bed for a week or longer. But heck, I got home, felt fine, hit the ground running! No swelling, no pain, no excessive tiredness. Amazing."

And:

"I can only say that it takes time. And the older a person is, and the more they abused their body, the longer it may take. But this experiment with KD and the exercise really did something, I think. I'm not being faithful about the exercising right now, but we were dedicated for the 6 initial weeks of getting into good ketosis and stimulating mtDNA, and it seems to be an ongoing process. Heck, my legs don't feel like they are weighted with lead anymore when I climb the stairs! And I actually have fairly fast reactions to taking in nourishment that I never had before: I can feel the body utilizing the fuel and the heat rising! I've been cold all my life and now, all of a sudden, just have a bowl of broth and I warm right up!"

Kicking the wild mtDNA back into play may initiate a whole cascade of changes that go on for some time and that does seem to be a key component of the process along with minimized protein intake and adequate fat intake.

I'm still supplementing niacin with meals. Its helped a lot with energy levels, especially on 'bad days'. Bone broth still heats me up and puts me to sleep, but I wake up feeling better for it. Hubby is starting to join me in having a cup.

As for coffee? I worked too hard to quit drinking it. Have I slipped and had a cup? Yes. But it made my stomach ache, which made it easy to quit it. Currently my favorite beverage is decaf chai. We have a local lady that sells a number of decaf teas that are done with the CO2 method, and its all organic. That helps keep away from coffee, to let my body heal.

 

[maxtree]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I used to take 100gram niacin once a week while on Paleo diet. The 'flush' was felt in my face and neck. After 10 minutes it had gone. After 2 weeks on KD I took the niacin and my WHOLE body was red and hot. I could feel it in my toes and my head.
I looked like a red,red lobster. The heat lasted for 30 minutes!
I knew it would go away but it scared me a bit. Didn't take one this week.

 

[Gawan]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

"I can only say that it takes time. And the older a person is, and the more they abused their body, the longer it may take. But this experiment with KD and the exercise really did something, I think. I'm not being faithful about the exercising right now, but we were dedicated for the 6 initial weeks of getting into good ketosis and stimulating mtDNA, and it seems to be an ongoing process. Heck, my legs don't feel like they are weighted with lead anymore when I climb the stairs! And I actually have fairly fast reactions to taking in nourishment that I never had before: I can feel the body utilizing the fuel and the heat rising! I've been cold all my life and now, all of a sudden, just have a bowl of broth and I warm right up!"

This sounds great!

I also introduced organic coffee (half to a quarter teaspoon of instant coffee added to 200-250ml of water) and it makes no stomach problems or no problems in the middle of the day. In the morning I suffer from kind of dizzynes but I don't know if it is coffee or not yet (but I still can manage to work). As with everything else the coffee tastes with butter delicious and is also pretty addictive, so I force myself not to drink more than two cups a day and I have no sleeping problems.

The overall feeling is getting better day by day I can concentrate and my memory is very vidid. But sometimes it happens that there are still bad days in between, so I had again a night were I woke up several times nauseated and took each time 1 or two HCI tablets. And it seems also that I can eat some carbs without getting out of ketosis (I ate 350 grs of liver at a day, or a sausage with some grape sugar (about 1 gr in 100gr).

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

If anyone does try coffee, the things I recommend from experience are:

• Don't have it on an empty stomach
• Use organic beans (not decaf, or if you must then use "Swiss water process" decaf)
• Grind just before brewing
• Don't drink a lot of it during or right after a meal
• Drinking it after noon or so may affect sleep (or may not, or it may depend on how much you have)
• Drink enough to "keep things moving" (experiment) but stop short of what would give you a "buzz"
• If you are having problems with it and using sweeteners (xylitol, stevia), try it black
• Same goes for creamers (cream, coconut milk--especially if it contains guar gum, coconut oil, butter)

Of course you can prepare it however you like, but if it isn't agreeing you might want to try these things before giving up on it.

As I said before, I don't know why coffee helps me, but I suspect that the active ingredient that makes the difference is caffeine, although organic coffee should contain useful nutrients as well. I haven't observed the effect with decaf, so I don't see any reason to drink it.

Over the weekend I had a pot of coffee (20 oz.) at midday, promptly fell asleep, and had a nice nap. It "did the job" too, helping get rid of the residue from the "hotel food" I had at a conference I attended last week. This is the only reason I am drinking coffee. It works quite well.

 

[RflctnOfU]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

[...] I can feel the body utilizing the fuel and the heat rising! I've been cold all my life and now, all of a sudden, just have a bowl of broth and I warm right up!"[...]

This is interesting. The one time I intentionally added a lot of fat to the broth (still not even on paleo, so don't want too much fat yet), I had the same sensation...it was a heat spreading from the gut/solar plexus area all over. It was pause for concern, because that has NEVER happened before that I can recall. Regarding the coldness. Since adding a cup of broth every morning, I have been much more tolerant of cold (specifically we keep the interior of the house at 71F (live in florida)).

Kris

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...Not yet sure what the story is with my lipids off the chart.

An episode of "Ask the Low Carb Experts" (_http://www.askthelowcarbexperts.com/2012/10/29-dr-thomas-dayspring-cholesterol-testing-what-matters-most) mentions a rare "paradoxical" form of high cholesterol caused by a VLC diet in susceptible individuals, although there is not much detail. The location is at about 51:37 into the iTunes podcast. In that kind of situation you might have to back off from the diet. I think he said something about "backing off" on the fat intake but it wasn't clear.

If you haven't heard it, you might want to listen to this podcast for general information. It explains a lot about cholesterol measurement.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...Not yet sure what the story is with my lipids off the chart.

An episode of "Ask the Low Carb Experts" (_http://www.askthelowcarbexperts.com/2012/10/29-dr-thomas-dayspring-cholesterol-testing-what-matters-most) mentions a rare "paradoxical" form of high cholesterol caused by a VLC diet in susceptible individuals, although there is not much detail. The location is at about 51:37 into the iTunes podcast. In that kind of situation you might have to back off from the diet. I think he said something about "backing off" on the fat intake but it wasn't clear.

If you haven't heard it, you might want to listen to this podcast for general information. It explains a lot about cholesterol measurement.

Thanks Megan, will do ... this all is still quite a mistery to me, as I was doing the VLC pretty much "by the book".

One of the other avenues that I am currently exploring is weight loss ... which I have had quite significant of.
There is some indication in the medical literature that under certain conditions your lipid profile can go off (although mostly lipids normalize under weight loss).

I'll keep on searching and will report back if I find something useful.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks Megan, will do ... this all is still quite a mistery to me, as I was doing the VLC pretty much "by the book".

One of the other avenues that I am currently exploring is weight loss ... which I have had quite significant of.
There is some indication in the medical literature that under certain conditions your lipid profile can go off (although mostly lipids normalize under weight loss).

I'll keep on searching and will report back if I find something useful.

I think it is in the LWB book/thread that losing weight can temporarily send your blood lipids up but after your weight reaches the plateau, the blood lipids drop.

 

[Gertrudes]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Thanks Megan, will do ... this all is still quite a mistery to me, as I was doing the VLC pretty much "by the book".

One of the other avenues that I am currently exploring is weight loss ... which I have had quite significant of.
There is some indication in the medical literature that under certain conditions your lipid profile can go off (although mostly lipids normalize under weight loss).

I'll keep on searching and will report back if I find something useful.

I think it is in the LWB book/thread that losing weight can temporarily send your blood lipids up but after your weight reaches the plateau, the blood lipids drop.

Yes, and that happened to me and apparently to some others. My cholesterol was so high that my doctor screamed at me on the phone, he was incredulous when I told him I didn't want statins. I would give it a few months nicklebleu, and test again, what's happening to your cholesterol seems to be very similar to what happened to mine and other members'.

 

[Ollie]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

If anyone does try coffee, the things I recommend from experience are:

• Don't have it on an empty stomach
• Use organic beans (not decaf, or if you must then use "Swiss water process" decaf)
• Grind just before brewing
• Don't drink a lot of it during or right after a meal
• Drinking it after noon or so may affect sleep (or may not, or it may depend on how much you have)
• Drink enough to "keep things moving" (experiment) but stop short of what would give you a "buzz"
• If you are having problems with it and using sweeteners (xylitol, stevia), try it black
• Same goes for creamers (cream, coconut milk--especially if it contains guar gum, coconut oil, butter)

Of course you can prepare it however you like, but if it isn't agreeing you might want to try these things before giving up on it.

As I said before, I don't know why coffee helps me, but I suspect that the active ingredient that makes the difference is caffeine, although organic coffee should contain useful nutrients as well. I haven't observed the effect with decaf, so I don't see any reason to drink it.
...

I been taking a heaped teaspoon in a mug of approx 500ml, with a heaped teaspoon of clotted cream, and it seems to be working in terms of 'motion', and is devoid of a 'buzz'. I'll experiment to 'buzz' level. You are right about, well for me anyway, about avoiding drinking coffee after noon, I did that yesterday after being out all day, and boy did it affect my sleep pattern - it took forever to get to sleep!

Edit: changed mug size from 250 to 500ml.

 

[mcb]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...I think it is in the LWB book/thread that losing weight can temporarily send your blood lipids up but after your weight reaches the plateau, the blood lipids drop.

Quite a few sources report that observation, and I saw moderately elevated LDL-C in my own lipid panel results last fall. My TG/HDL-C ratio, however, was good. Nicklebleu's results are relatively extreme, and include a high TG/HDL-C ratio.

If this were an ongoing problem that existed before going VLC, it would point in a different direction. As it is, all I can say from the reading I have been doing is that it seems to be unusual if not rare, and I still wonder if it might be a bad reading from the lab. I am keeping an eye out for further information, and this podcast is the first thing that has turned up.

I have never done this but it seems that you can obtain a lipid panel from a drug store (here in the US, anyway), such as at _http://www.walgreens.com/topic/health-tests/cholesterol-testing.jsp, at a cost $35 for the full panel. It's been a year since I had mine checked and I might just try it.

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Chris Kressner (sp?) made a review recently showing how you need some 6 cholesterol readings spanned throughout several months to get the gist of it. There are so many variations that one reading alone is not sufficient.

If there are high cholesterol levels it might mean that your body is busy repairing tissues. It does have anti-oxidant effects after all.

Nickebleu, I think that a better lab measure of your body's health would be by measuring ultrasensitive (sp?) CRP, the inflammatory marker.

Here is the experience of the Wheat Belly guy, I remember he said something among that lines that he always saw abnormal cholesterol levels as long as people were losing weight:

What is this wacky thing called “weight loss”?

_http://blog.trackyourplaque.com/2011/09/what-is-this-wacky-thing-called-weight-loss.html

Posted on September 20, 2011 by Dr. Davis

I’ve discussed this before, but it has proven such an (encouragingly!) frequent issue that I thought it was worth discussing once again.

What happens when you lose weight?

The process of weight loss is characterized by multiple shifts in metabolic patterns that can be confusing. To the uninitiated eye, weight loss can look like a disastrous distortion in metabolism. The naive doctor on seeing your lab values, for instance, might insist you take a statin drug, a fibrate like Tricor (to reduce triglycerides or increase HDL), or simply berate you for your bad health habits–when it’s actually a good thing you’ve accomplished.

So when you lose weight, say, 30 pounds in 3 months, what have you accomplished?

Energy stored as fat, especially from visceral fat stores, is mobilized into the bloodstream. It floods the bloodstream as fatty acids and triglycerides. These fatty acids and triglycerides don’t occur in isolation, but interact with other particles and metabolic patterns. The resulting blood patterns include:

–Increased triglycerides–An increase in triglycerides, for instance, from 90 mg/dl to 200 mg/dl in the midst of weight loss is common.

–Reduced HDL–The flood of triglycerides leads to increased degradation of HDL, thus a drop. A drop in HDL from, say, 40 mg/dl to 27 mg/dl–very frightening to people–is exceptionally common.

–Increased blood sugar–The flood of fatty acids and triglycerides results in insulin resistance, leading to higher blood sugars. It is not uncommon for someone with pre-diabetes to develop diabetic-range blood sugars, or a non-diabetic to show pre-diabetic blood sugars.

–Increased small LDL particles–Though small LDL is highly variable during weight loss. When it does happen, it’s probably from the interaction of VLDL (triglycerides) with LDL particles and the reaction that overloads LDL particles with triglycerides and conversion to small LDL particles.

So why don’t doctors often recognize these patterns when a patient loses weight? Because they rarely see it. Most of my colleagues are accustomed to having patients come back with weight gain, getting heavier and heavier each time. Lose weight? Impossible! So they just don’t recognize weight loss effects when they see it. As followers of The Heart Scan Blog know, a frequent conversation around here is “Am I too skinny?” or “How do I stop losing weight?”

The solution: Be patient. Be patient and wait about two months after a weight plateau has been achieved. That’s when the numbers “settle down” and you see marked drops in triglycerides, increases in HDL, drops in blood sugar, reductions in small LDL.

As with many things, it’s all about timing.

 

[Seppo Ilmarinen]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I got today my xceed ketone blood glucose and ketone meter. I measured at 15pm my "morning" glucose and ketones after 30min gym workout and fasting since last evening. B-ketones were 3.4mmol/l and glucose 4.3 mmol/l. Evening levels was B-ketones 4.4 mmol/l and glucose again 4.3 mmol/l.

I ate two meals during the day before measuring evening levels. First meal was pork chuck with bone broth, butter and little bit of heavy cream. Second meal was bacon and egg fried in butter and bone broth. I also had few tablespoons of homemade dark chocolate and tea with coconut oil.

edit: added during the day in the sentence.

update: Few hours after eating that chocolate i started to feel really nauseous, had stomach ache and headache. Definitely a sign to be cautious with carbs and it showed that i've become much more sensitive to foods that i don't tolerate.