Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[cubbex]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The types of exercise are easy to remember, Doug calls them "the big 5":
Horizontal pull (row exercise)
Horizontal push (bench-press with a barbell or with dumbells for example)
Vertical pull (pull-ups or chin-ups for example)
Vertical push (military press)
Squats (and/or deadlifts).

So do those for 1 or 2 sets to absolute failure (push through the burn til you just can't physically lift the weight anymore, and then keep pushing for a while longer anyway), very slowly (3-5+ seconds lifting the weight, 3-5+ seconds to descend it back, and do each rep like that), and try not to rest much at all between the different exercises, or at least as little as possible. Give at least a full week of recovery before training again. This will result in cardiovascular adaptations (apparently better than jogging for hours would ever do), metabolic improvements, strength and size gains, and other benefits of exercise in general. Not to mention the mitochondrial DNA activation, especially if combined with intermittent fasting and cold showers.

I wouldn't jump on this type of training that fast. I'd recommend more a high intervals cardio, or a simple but refreshing barbell complex workout (you don't need heavy weight, you only use 20 minutes of your day, and you feel so good because of the deep breathing and oxygenation these type of trainings provide), or complete body workout. In to the program of HYPERTHROPHY MAX of Ben Pakulski there's one month you do this training, but prior to this you need to go through 5 phases of not so heavy weight but hard work.

I mention this because of the time needed, if you got someone well trained on this, is ok 1 day or 2 a week. But if you try to start on this it will take more time than needed. As high intensive training uses lot of compound movements, this are harder to learn properly (is like a kung fu movement), to then try the heavy weights or it ends in a painful injury for the rest of your life. So it will take off your time anyways, at least 3 hours per week.

Also, this type of training kicks your butt "if done properly" (yeah, it sounds contradictory but it is) for the entire day, you'll need some guns like vit D, fish oils and magnesium to battle the inflammation on your wrist and any other articulation involved, unless you've worked for a period of a year to that 1 rep max, and still you would need to increase supplementation. Also training to failure with heavy weight is a recipe for an injury. When you reach failure your body starts shifting positions and angles to make it easier, if you are at the middle of a deadlift or a squat, and you reach failure before time. You will end hurt. Also, HIT puts under a lot of stress the body more than a bodybuilder workout. That's why it takes long rest periods, with each set of like 5 reps lol.

Also reaching fatigue with the muscle does not mean increasing size nor strength. It can burn the nervous system and leave you weak, not only for one day but for that entire week your rest. Been there, done that.

xD all in all, I don't agree with this type of training hehe. I know it may look like a way of not taking a lot of time exercising, but at the end it takes off your time. It uses exercises as difficult as in olimpic lifting or power lifting. The thing is the rest periods, heavy weight requires greater rest for one exercise closer to the 1 rep max. This means, if you do a giant set (several exercises back to back) with a weight closer to 1 rep max, unless you really do 1 rep for each exercise you'll use like 2 minutes of your day, and still think is dangerous. Because usually in high intensity training, you need longer rest periods to avoid muscle fatigue and nervous system burn out. So you if a giant set has 5 exercise with heavy weight close to your 1 rep max, you will need like 15 minutes of rest or 20, before a second set. This is if you want to avoid injury and enjoy your exercise time for the day. If not, those 5 exercises must be separated between 5 minutes, for the 2 sets, and it will take 1 hour if you try to do all the exercises in good form.

From personal experience, I have some time training my bench press form. After 1 month of training I tried heavy weight, and though I was using a spotter he wasn't very knowledgeable like I was, and I hurt my lower back for 3 horrible days, felt like somebody took a beat with a baseball bat on my back. By a very subtle change I did on my lower back position because of the heavy load, I injured myself. Not nice HIT, not nice. If you want to try HIT it will take training and patience, as per workout you may only do 3 movements.

My 2 cents.

I think it doesn't depend whether you ingest free amino acids or proteins, as proteins are broken up into amino acids when they are absorbed into the body.
Triggering your leptin system is probably not a huge problem, if you do it short term - a bit like triggering your insulin now and again is not a problem. The problem starts, when you consistently trigger the system to the max, because in the long run you will wear the system down (as it is designed as an emergency backup), with insulin sensitivity decreasing (insulin resistance, a.k.a. metabolic syndrome). Increased leptin leads to metabolic syndrome as well through leptin resistance. And BTW, protein trigger both insulin and leptin. Rosedale for instance says that leptin resistance is probably more important in diabetes than insulin resistance. But we don't hear much about leptin resistance, because there are no drugs to treat leptin resistance, contrary to insulin resistance. Fat however doesn't trigger insulin or leptin ...

So their back problems may well stem from insulin resistance, as insulin is a pro-inflammatory hormone.

Hope that answers your question.

Oh, ok. Is like adrenal fatigue then, and drinking too much coffee and red bulls. This also explains my other doubts. Like why body builders die early or pro athletes. I knew the protein contains aminos, but there are lots of opinions of the "experts" out there related to the proper use of protein. Thanks.

I also agree on the insulin resistance, they eat lot of junk food and carbs, and they relegate (as any mainstream diets) fat at the bottom of the macro nutrient hierarchy.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I mention this because of the time needed, if you got someone well trained on this, is ok 1 day or 2 a week. But if you try to start on this it will take more time than needed. As high intensive training uses lot of compound movements, this are harder to learn properly (is like a kung fu movement), to then try the heavy weights or it ends in a painful injury for the rest of your life. So it will take off your time anyways, at least 3 hours per week.

The idea is to not use heavy weights - 50% to 70% of your 1-rep max, which is relatively light and easy for the body to handle. Also, performing the exercises very slowly (each rep takes like 6 to 10 seconds to complete) has been proven to dramatically reduce chance of injury compared to traditionally quick rep speeds and heavier weights.

Also, this type of training kicks your butt "if done properly" (yeah, it sounds contradictory but it is) for the entire day, you'll need some guns like vit D, fish oils and magnesium to battle the inflammation on your wrist and any other articulation involved, unless you've worked for a period of a year to that 1 rep max, and still you would need to increase supplementation. Also training to failure with heavy weight is a recipe for an injury. When you reach failure your body starts shifting positions and angles to make it easier, if you are at the middle of a deadlift or a squat, and you reach failure before time. You will end hurt. Also, HIT puts under a lot of stress the body more than a bodybuilder workout. That's why it takes long rest periods, with each set of like 5 reps lol.

This type of training keeps you very far away from lifting anything close to your 1-rep max - sorry if that wasn't clear. I agree that proper form should be used at all times, so it's important to drop the weights once you cannot lift the weight anymore while maintaining proper form. I also agree that barbell squats can be risky to take to failure without a spotter or proper facility where it's easy to rack or drop the weight at any time, but with a light enough weight and very slow movements with proper form, it should be safe to take it close to failure and still properly rack the weight back. Squats can also be performed with dumbbells by your sides. But some people won't even need any weight for squatting at all, it all depends on your present/starting ability. Squatting, especially slowly, can be hard enough without weights!

Also reaching fatigue with the muscle does not mean increasing size nor strength. It can burn the nervous system and leave you weak, not only for one day but for that entire week your rest. Been there, done that.

According to the HIT principles, fatigue or failure is precisely what stimulates your body to ultimately adapt. When you reach failure you're sending a message to the body that you're not strong enough to do something, forcing it to get stronger. However, it is possible to make progress without reaching failure, it all depends on how many Type II fibers you managed to stimulate before you put the weights down. Failure just ensures you get to all of them, but it's not an absolute necessity.

xD all in all, I don't agree with this type of training hehe. I know it may look like a way of not taking a lot of time exercising, but at the end it takes off your time. It uses exercises as difficult as in olimpic lifting or power lifting.

I disagree. Power lifters use weights close to their 1-rep max (like 90% of your 1-rep max and above). HIT exercises use weights much lower than that. The only time you're pushing as hard as you can is on the very last rep, which doesn't make the weight any heavier, but you're simply tired by that point and all your muscle fibers except the most powerful ones have been fatigued.

In fact, HIT training uses lower weights than even traditional bodybuilder training (which are already low weights compared to powerlifters or those training for pure strength), because each rep is done very slowly, which makes the intensity and difficulty go up, not requiring as much weight to achieve the same or better results. So according to all the literature I've seen, that makes it much safer than most other types of weight training - the weights are lower, and the pace is very slow and controlled. Those that follow it and train hundreds of clients often have basically no injuries to themselves and their clients.

From personal experience, I have some time training my bench press form. After 1 month of training I tried heavy weight, and though I was using a spotter he wasn't very knowledgeable like I was, and I hurt my lower back for 3 horrible days, felt like somebody took a beat with a baseball bat on my back. By a very subtle change I did on my lower back position because of the heavy load, I injured myself. Not nice HIT, not nice. If you want to try HIT it will take training and patience, as per workout you may only do 3 movements.

I did not see any literature that suggests HIT demands heavy weight, only the opposite. Where did you see the recommendation that HIT requires a heavy weight?

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Squatting, especially slowly, can be hard enough without weights!

I sometimes do a very slow bodyweight routine, where each movement is stretched out to 15-20 seconds, putting the emphasis on eccentric movement.

I typically would do:
- Slow one-legged squats - 6 reps (one-legged on the way down, two-legged on the way up)
- Slow pushups close to body - 6 reps
- Slow pushups widem- 6 reps
- Slow abdominal crunches - 6 reps
- Slow triceps plank dips - 6 reps
- Slow pullups, weight supported - 6 reps (I usually use a table lying underneath)

When using this exercise, I generally do it every other day, or 3 times per week max. And you don't need any gear, just your body.

If you do the exercises slowly enough, you will go to exhaustion of the muscle. Once you reach a certain level of ease, just increase the time or reps, or both. I found especially the one-legged squats beneficial, increasing leg strength enourmously. And let's not forget, that exercising your muscles in an eccentric way (slowly extending the muscles agains a weight) is beneficial in repairing mitochondrial dysfunction!

For some time this was the only excercise I did, yet I was able to sustain a 20 hour non-stop ski-trip, pulling a sled, with relative ease and no major recovery to speak of - I was quite amazed at this. I have another trip coming up and my plan is to get back into this routine full-time again,

Just my 2 cents.

 

[A Jay]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The types of exercise are easy to remember, Doug calls them "the big 5":
Horizontal pull (row exercise)
Horizontal push (bench-press with a barbell or with dumbells for example)
Vertical pull (pull-ups or chin-ups for example)
Vertical push (military press)
Squats (and/or deadlifts).

So do those for 1 set to absolute failure (push through the burn til you just can't physically lift the weight anymore, and then keep pushing for a while longer anyway), very slowly (3-5+ seconds lifting the weight, 3-5+ seconds to descend it back, and do each rep like that), and try not to rest much at all between the different exercises, or at least as little as possible. Give at least a full week of recovery before training again. (Recovery time can vary depending on the individual and their goals, most could start with 2 training days a week and insert more recovery days after a few weeks of consistent training) This will result in cardiovascular adaptations (apparently better than jogging for hours would ever do), metabolic improvements, strength and size gains, and other benefits of exercise in general. Not to mention the mitochondrial DNA activation, especially if combined with intermittent fasting and cold showers.

I wouldn't jump on this type of training that fast. I'd recommend more a high intervals cardio, or a simple but refreshing barbell complex workout (you don't need heavy weight, you only use 20 minutes of your day, and you feel so good because of the deep breathing and oxygenation these type of trainings provide), or complete body workout. In to the program of HYPERTHROPHY MAX of Ben Pakulski there's one month you do this training, but prior to this you need to go through 5 phases of not so heavy weight but hard work.

Do not trust professional bodybuilders, basically ALL of them use performance enhancers. So anything that they say 'works for them' only works because of their steroid cocktails, and the freak genetics for muscle hypertrophy they were born with.

I mention this because of the time needed, if you got someone well trained on this, is ok 1 day or 2 a week. But if you try to start on this it will take more time than needed. As high intensive training uses lot of compound movements, this are harder to learn properly (is like a kung fu movement), to then try the heavy weights or it ends in a painful injury for the rest of your life. So it will take off your time anyways, at least 3 hours per week.

Compound movements are actually quite easy to learn, think push-up, pull-up, and bodyweight squats.

Most workouts for myself and for the dozens of people I've trained over the years using HIT has averaged around 15-20 minutes 2x a week. Also, lifting weights that require a high percentage of relative effort (which doesn't have to be a "heavy" weight) does not necessarily lead to a painful life-long injury, not sure where you got this or the 3 hours per week idea from.

Also, this type of training kicks your butt "if done properly" (yeah, it sounds contradictory but it is) for the entire day, you'll need some guns like vit D, fish oils and magnesium to battle the inflammation on your wrist and any other articulation involved, unless you've worked for a period of a year to that 1 rep max, and still you would need to increase supplementation. Also training to failure with heavy weight is a recipe for an injury. When you reach failure your body starts shifting positions and angles to make it easier, if you are at the middle of a deadlift or a squat, and you reach failure before time. You will end hurt. Also, HIT puts under a lot of stress the body more than a bodybuilder workout. That's why it takes long rest periods, with each set of like 5 reps lol.

Also reaching fatigue with the muscle does not mean increasing size nor strength. It can burn the nervous system and leave you weak, not only for one day but for that entire week your rest. Been there, done that.

Again, I don't know where you got your information from regarding HIT, but it's led you to some very wrong ideas regarding its application, benefits, and dangers.

xD all in all, I don't agree with this type of training hehe. I know it may look like a way of not taking a lot of time exercising, but at the end it takes off your time. It uses exercises as difficult as in olimpic lifting or power lifting. The thing is the rest periods, heavy weight requires greater rest for one exercise closer to the 1 rep max. This means, if you do a giant set (several exercises back to back) with a weight closer to 1 rep max, unless you really do 1 rep for each exercise you'll use like 2 minutes of your day, and still think is dangerous. Because usually in high intensity training, you need longer rest periods to avoid muscle fatigue and nervous system burn out. So you if a giant set has 5 exercise with heavy weight close to your 1 rep max, you will need like 15 minutes of rest or 20, before a second set. This is if you want to avoid injury and enjoy your exercise time for the day. If not, those 5 exercises must be separated between 5 minutes, for the 2 sets, and it will take 1 hour if you try to do all the exercises in good form.

From personal experience, I have some time training my bench press form. After 1 month of training I tried heavy weight, and though I was using a spotter he wasn't very knowledgeable like I was, and I hurt my lower back for 3 horrible days, felt like somebody took a beat with a baseball bat on my back. By a very subtle change I did on my lower back position because of the heavy load, I injured myself. Not nice HIT, not nice. If you want to try HIT it will take training and patience, as per workout you may only do 3 movements.

My 2 cents.

Okay this whole post is way off, where did you get your info from?

Like SAO suggested, 'Body By Science' would be a good book for you to read to get a handle on what exercise really is in terms of a stimulus for transformation and mitochondrial proliferation. Also, here's two good papers and a blog post on CNS burnout that should help clear up a few misconceptions:

_http://baye.com/qa-criticisms-of-training-to-failure/
_http://www.medicinasportiva.pl/new/pliki/ms_2011_03_08_Fisher.pdf
_http://www.asep.org/asep/asep/JEPonlineJUNE2012_Steele.pdf

 

[monotonic]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I have been thinking about eccentric muscle building. If you're using two limbs in one action, where the muscles of each limb are applying the same effort, then the weaker muscles will collapse and experience eccentric motion. Since eccentric force builds muscle, the weaker muscles will automatically strengthen, and the muscle system as a whole will balance itself out naturally in terms of fitness for the activity being performed. Good posture is important, or else your muscles will not strengthen in such a way as to support your joints. Is this accurate?

I have a trick I do. I can punch a hole in a piece of paper with my finger just by flicking my wrist; I achieved this through intense fidgeting throughout my youth. My dominant wrist is thicker and has two large tendons while the non-dominant wrist has only one large tendon with the other being not very defined. But my actual wrist strength isn't really much more than most people. I suppose what I've done is I've trained the fast muscle fibers and skeletal structure but the rest of the muscle fibers are unchanged.

 

[cubbex]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

...

Literature on weight lifting is always changing. But I get what you are doing, so this was an error of understanding from my part as we are basing on different sources.

From what you are telling me, it sounds to what these days is called "High density training"; that is doing the most work you can do in less time, to fatigue the muscle and stimulate the growth hormone, and all the other benefits. High intensity training, is know by powerlifters and strenght trainers as that, increasing the load to the 1 rep max, if you get below the 80% or something, then it's not high intensity. High density training is pretty much related to fatigue, and lactic acid. I guess it depends on who's naming the concepts, and of course, these can't be limited by "literature" only.

So sorry SAO. Just be careful. It's cool to hear somebody is doing a similar type of training I gotta admit :)

Still recomending giving a check to ben pakulski. Bodybuilders have been sort of dminished, because they can take their bodies to xtreme positions. But these guy taught me a lot about weight training. And he teaches that squats must be done slow, that's why I say that literature can't be always the only main source of info about this teachings. Not everything comes in books.

Do not trust professional bodybuilders, basically ALL of them use performance enhancers. So anything that they say 'works for them' only works because of their steroid cocktails, and the freak genetics for muscle hypertrophy they were born with.


Compound movements are actually quite easy to learn, think push-up, pull-up, and bodyweight squats.

Most workouts for myself and for the dozens of people I've trained over the years using HIT has averaged around 15-20 minutes 2x a week. Also, lifting weights that require a high percentage of relative effort (which doesn't have to be a "heavy" weight) does not necessarily lead to a painful life-long injury, not sure where you got this or the 3 hours per week idea from.


Again, I don't know where you got your information from regarding HIT, but it's led you to some very wrong ideas regarding its application, benefits, and dangers.



Okay this whole post is way off, where did you get your info from?

Like SAO suggested, 'Body By Science' would be a good book for you to read to get a handle on what exercise really is in terms of a stimulus for transformation and mitochondrial proliferation. Also, here's two good papers and a blog post on CNS burnout that should help clear up a few misconceptions:

No offense but I'd trust more professional than someone who has less than a year training. And if I say Ben knows his stuff, is because he knows he stuff. He's known not as a pro bodybuilder, but more as a scientist bodybuilder, and as a teacher. He taught me the basics on using Vit C on training, and other supplements, he meditates, and he has traveled and focused most of his life to this to know what's wrong and right.

And no, compound movements like squats are not easy to learn, is not just squating. Is about foot position, hips, knees, acceleration, etc. I've been training with this man and I still learn things from him.

What amazed me recently from him, is that he's been recently talking about the concept of "output" and "input" exercises. Why? he says some exercises add information to the field you are standing at, like a squat or bench press where you add your energy to the movement; these are called output exercises. While other type of training like sports or jumps squats for example are "input" exercises, where the body takes information from the ground through the feet. He's still vague about this, but he says that there's a correlation between input exercises and the avoidance of injury.

;) Believe me I've certainly done my research on him and on this. Wedding out all the mainstream body building protein glorify religion takes time too.

 

[will01]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Just thought I would post on my experience with diet changes, as this and the LWB thread have given so much to me.

Prior to following the diet advice on this forum, my eating habits were woeful. How bad? My diet staples were sugar, wheat and dairy. Sugar was a lifelong habit, with whole blocks of chocolate, dessert foods, or cereal with milk routinely eaten as a meal in themselves. Snacks included sweet biscuits, chips, soft drinks and any other junk food you care to name. Geez, as I look back, it really was a miracle that I didn't develop a major health problem. As it was, a fair amount of tooth decay and what I believe to be an enlarged prostate, were the only health problems I was aware of.

My diet changes began approximately August/September 2012, at 38 years old. No idea why I decided to make changes, just remember being fascinated by all the diet info on the forum, real eye opening stuff. Then one night, while having my evening "chocolate meal", just decided it was now or never. One of my better choices made in this life!

I began with a gluten/dairy/soy etc. free diet and after a month on this, tested for food sensitivities. Didn't discover any, but had an interesting experience with dairy, some 10 months or so later. Ate some cream cheese one day (in a pancake recipe) and was left feeling "high" for the rest of the day! Never felt anything like it before. Best guess would be the casein in the cheese, so have avoided all dairy since, with the exception of butter and ghee.

Didn't have any trouble giving up the chocolate, but was not restricting carbs at this stage. One happy result of the changes was no more tooth aches :D, even though I was on unlimited carbs, including things like honey and molasses.

A change to the ketogenic diet was made during May 2013. My transition from burning carbs to fats was smooth for the most part, however I did reduce carbs in stages (from the 72g a day recommended in LWB, to 50g,30g etc) over a couple of months. I would have to agree with what Gaby said here http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,34581.0.html though, and think that it would be a much easier transition to go VLC until ketosis is achieved. Speaking of being in ketosis, although I never tested for it, a doctor confirmed it for me. After telling him of the diet I was on, he said "I know, I can smell the ketones on your breath!".

Here are some observations, problems/benefits and results of my time on the diet -

- The main benefit is a constant (no peaks or dips through the day) and ample supply of energy. No matter how much physical work I have to do, or how long the day is, it's always there. Took most of 12 months on keto to get to this stage (was intermittent in the beginning). You can still exhaust yourself, but it takes longer and you recover quicker, both during and after physical activity (at least for me).

- No more blackouts/dizzyness when standing up, this was near constant on a carb diet.

- Strong and constant heart rhythm. Was always skipping beats on carb diet.

- Like most, lost quite a few kilos of weight (was already a "skinny") in the beginning, but gained it back eventually. Had to force feed myself a bit to get it started, with enough fat being the key.

- Had a gallstone issue, which I detailed here http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,13804.30.html. Seems a few people had this problem during transition.

- Had a hospital stay, IV antibiotics, CT scan and colonoscopy (also detailed in the link above), due to an infection. At least, that was one diagnosis. Reflecting on this, I believe there were other possibilities. From a relatives description, a kidney stone can produce similar pain and fever. I did ask the doctors about this, but they said it wasn't. There was a dull ache in my groin upon leaving the hospital, that eventually stopped. Urination, which I had problems with for some years prior, also resolved and is now what I believe to be normal. Another possibility is that I was borderline IBD/crohns. The CT scan did show thickening and some matting (of the villi I assume) in the small intestine. With my previous crap diet, who knows how much damage was done inside my body. It would seem strange though, to have a crohns "flare" after being gluten, dairy etc. absent, as well as keto adapted for so long previous. Maybe it was toxins released from the liver flushing? Whatever the cause, I am now on the best diet to heal the body and just have to give it more time.

- Still having issues with loose stools. Could be due to the above, or maybe a food sensitivity. Have tested most foods several times to be sure and am currently testing butter again. May need to eat just meat, fat and bone broth for a couple of weeks to test further. It could also be eating too much fat. Have stopped all veges except some lettuce occasionally. No nuts except macadamias very occasionally, but think I may stop altogether. Need to be very careful with fibre.

- Suffered from carb cravings in the beginning like most, but if the fat is there, it takes care of them. Made a few mistakes though. Ate some chocolate last christmas, just because it was christmas. Idiot. Wasn't even craving it or anything else, but it started a short binge on the stuff. One day, I hit around 90 grams of carbs and got a lot of brain fog. Eventually kicked the habit and won't touch the stuff again, as I have no carb cravings at all now. Another mistake I made was when I first discovered the forum and began jumping around from one thread to another. Reading bits from here and there, I thought all fat was good and started chugging down a couple of glasses of cream a day. The result? My heart was nearly beating out of my chest! It was a valuable lesson to know what you are doing, before you do it.

- Supplements have proved very useful. Never had cramps in my life before starting the diet, but I know what they are now! Fortunately, enough salt and magnesium oil (mag chloride) took care of them. ACV was used from the start and was a great digestive aid. Betaine HCL was good for digesting meat and fat, until I went VLC and didn't need it anymore. Digestive enzymes contnue to be used. Vit C was used heavily (6-12g day) for a while, now just a small amount in bone broth along with ACV. Have the gear to make liposomal vit C now, but havent done so as yet. After reading the iodine thread http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,13371.0.html, I decided to supplement it for heavy metal chelation. I used Lugol's 5% and slowly built up to around 50mg a day, split in 2 doses. Stayed at this dose for 4-6 weeks, reduced to 20mg for a few months and now around 6.5 mg a day. You can feel the swelling in your throat as you increase the dose of this stuff, so I didn't stay on the high dose for too long. Have also used milk thistle. Fish oil caps, 1000mg, 4 caps twice a day for a while, now back to 2 a day. Did a course of probiotics after the antibiotics, then used homemade kefir made with coconut milk. Can't say any one supplement was better than another, but combined they were very helpful during the detox and transition.

- The best results were achieved with a combination of things. When I got out of hopital, I was determined to get on top of the problem. I did EE daily (had done so for a few months before), combined with FIR sauna for an hour each day. Went a bit overboard with the sauna at one stage, staying in it for 90 minutes @ 70 degrees! Had to pipe breathe to get through the last 10 minutes and felt very drained and fatigued after, despite drinking plenty throughout. Highly recommend not to do this, as low temps are quite effective in these things and 40 - 60 min is plenty of time. Now use the sauna every second or third day, if possible. Turned the TV off, watching only 30 min of news (although have fallen back in the habit of late, need to improve). Stopped listening to "mainstream" music some time ago. Also try to get 10 - 20 min of full body sun exposure each day whenever possible. All these things combined consistently made quite a difference along with a strict diet, as well as full body magnesium oil use for a time.

- Intermittent fasting was/is very helpful. Most days are just 2 meals over 8 or so hours, occasionally just 1 meal. Foods include meat, fat, bone broth, coconut cream, cocoa, xylitol/stevia, ghee, eggs and liver occasionally. Have used garlic and dried onion, but no more as I think they have a negative effect beyond a certain amount. Instead, I stick with anti-inflammatory herbs like oregano, cinnamon, ginger (the best so far) and rosemary.

- From the outset, changed to cast iron/stainless cookware and glass bottles, containers etc. Also stopped using soap and shampoo ( but don't smell, honestly). Sodium bicarb is used instead of toothpaste.

- Concentration and memory have improved, but not as much as I had hoped. Have only been on keto diet for 12 months, so hope that this continues to improve. Yet to try DMSA, NAC, or ALA, so doing this may help. No doubt my body is still detoxing and healing.

- EE program is fantastic and has been as beneficial as the diet. Has had a very calming effect on me.

That's been my experience so far, apologies for the long post. A big thankyou to all who have contributed and shared experiences throughout the diet threads, this knowledge is priceless.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Just thought I would post on my experience with diet changes, as this and the LWB thread have given so much to me.

Prior to following the diet advice on this forum, my eating habits were woeful. How bad? My diet staples were sugar, wheat and dairy. Sugar was a lifelong habit, with whole blocks of chocolate, dessert foods, or cereal with milk routinely eaten as a meal in themselves. Snacks included sweet biscuits, chips, soft drinks and any other junk food you care to name. Geez, as I look back, it really was a miracle that I didn't develop a major health problem. As it was, a fair amount of tooth decay and what I believe to be an enlarged prostate, were the only health problems I was aware of.

My diet changes began approximately August/September 2012, at 38 years old. No idea why I decided to make changes, just remember being fascinated by all the diet info on the forum, real eye opening stuff. Then one night, while having my evening "chocolate meal", just decided it was now or never. One of my better choices made in this life!

I began with a gluten/dairy/soy etc. free diet and after a month on this, tested for food sensitivities. Didn't discover any, but had an interesting experience with dairy, some 10 months or so later. Ate some cream cheese one day (in a pancake recipe) and was left feeling "high" for the rest of the day! Never felt anything like it before. Best guess would be the casein in the cheese, so have avoided all dairy since, with the exception of butter and ghee.

Didn't have any trouble giving up the chocolate, but was not restricting carbs at this stage. One happy result of the changes was no more tooth aches :D, even though I was on unlimited carbs, including things like honey and molasses.

A change to the ketogenic diet was made during May 2013. My transition from burning carbs to fats was smooth for the most part, however I did reduce carbs in stages (from the 72g a day recommended in LWB, to 50g,30g etc) over a couple of months. I would have to agree with what Gaby said here http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,34581.0.html though, and think that it would be a much easier transition to go VLC until ketosis is achieved. Speaking of being in ketosis, although I never tested for it, a doctor confirmed it for me. After telling him of the diet I was on, he said "I know, I can smell the ketones on your breath!".

Here are some observations, problems/benefits and results of my time on the diet -

- The main benefit is a constant (no peaks or dips through the day) and ample supply of energy. No matter how much physical work I have to do, or how long the day is, it's always there. Took most of 12 months on keto to get to this stage (was intermittent in the beginning). You can still exhaust yourself, but it takes longer and you recover quicker, both during and after physical activity (at least for me).

- No more blackouts/dizzyness when standing up, this was near constant on a carb diet.

- Strong and constant heart rhythm. Was always skipping beats on carb diet.

- Like most, lost quite a few kilos of weight (was already a "skinny") in the beginning, but gained it back eventually. Had to force feed myself a bit to get it started, with enough fat being the key.

- Had a gallstone issue, which I detailed here http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,13804.30.html. Seems a few people had this problem during transition.

- Had a hospital stay, IV antibiotics, CT scan and colonoscopy (also detailed in the link above), due to an infection. At least, that was one diagnosis. Reflecting on this, I believe there were other possibilities. From a relatives description, a kidney stone can produce similar pain and fever. I did ask the doctors about this, but they said it wasn't. There was a dull ache in my groin upon leaving the hospital, that eventually stopped. Urination, which I had problems with for some years prior, also resolved and is now what I believe to be normal. Another possibility is that I was borderline IBD/crohns. The CT scan did show thickening and some matting (of the villi I assume) in the small intestine. With my previous crap diet, who knows how much damage was done inside my body. It would seem strange though, to have a crohns "flare" after being gluten, dairy etc. absent, as well as keto adapted for so long previous. Maybe it was toxins released from the liver flushing? Whatever the cause, I am now on the best diet to heal the body and just have to give it more time.

- Still having issues with loose stools. Could be due to the above, or maybe a food sensitivity. Have tested most foods several times to be sure and am currently testing butter again. May need to eat just meat, fat and bone broth for a couple of weeks to test further. It could also be eating too much fat. Have stopped all veges except some lettuce occasionally. No nuts except macadamias very occasionally, but think I may stop altogether. Need to be very careful with fibre.

- Suffered from carb cravings in the beginning like most, but if the fat is there, it takes care of them. Made a few mistakes though. Ate some chocolate last christmas, just because it was christmas. Idiot. Wasn't even craving it or anything else, but it started a short binge on the stuff. One day, I hit around 90 grams of carbs and got a lot of brain fog. Eventually kicked the habit and won't touch the stuff again, as I have no carb cravings at all now. Another mistake I made was when I first discovered the forum and began jumping around from one thread to another. Reading bits from here and there, I thought all fat was good and started chugging down a couple of glasses of cream a day. The result? My heart was nearly beating out of my chest! It was a valuable lesson to know what you are doing, before you do it.

- Supplements have proved very useful. Never had cramps in my life before starting the diet, but I know what they are now! Fortunately, enough salt and magnesium oil (mag chloride) took care of them. ACV was used from the start and was a great digestive aid. Betaine HCL was good for digesting meat and fat, until I went VLC and didn't need it anymore. Digestive enzymes contnue to be used. Vit C was used heavily (6-12g day) for a while, now just a small amount in bone broth along with ACV. Have the gear to make liposomal vit C now, but havent done so as yet. After reading the iodine thread http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,13371.0.html, I decided to supplement it for heavy metal chelation. I used Lugol's 5% and slowly built up to around 50mg a day, split in 2 doses. Stayed at this dose for 4-6 weeks, reduced to 20mg for a few months and now around 6.5 mg a day. You can feel the swelling in your throat as you increase the dose of this stuff, so I didn't stay on the high dose for too long. Have also used milk thistle. Fish oil caps, 1000mg, 4 caps twice a day for a while, now back to 2 a day. Did a course of probiotics after the antibiotics, then used homemade kefir made with coconut milk. Can't say any one supplement was better than another, but combined they were very helpful during the detox and transition.

- The best results were achieved with a combination of things. When I got out of hopital, I was determined to get on top of the problem. I did EE daily (had done so for a few months before), combined with FIR sauna for an hour each day. Went a bit overboard with the sauna at one stage, staying in it for 90 minutes @ 70 degrees! Had to pipe breathe to get through the last 10 minutes and felt very drained and fatigued after, despite drinking plenty throughout. Highly recommend not to do this, as low temps are quite effective in these things and 40 - 60 min is plenty of time. Now use the sauna every second or third day, if possible. Turned the TV off, watching only 30 min of news (although have fallen back in the habit of late, need to improve). Stopped listening to "mainstream" music some time ago. Also try to get 10 - 20 min of full body sun exposure each day whenever possible. All these things combined consistently made quite a difference along with a strict diet, as well as full body magnesium oil use for a time.

- Intermittent fasting was/is very helpful. Most days are just 2 meals over 8 or so hours, occasionally just 1 meal. Foods include meat, fat, bone broth, coconut cream, cocoa, xylitol/stevia, ghee, eggs and liver occasionally. Have used garlic and dried onion, but no more as I think they have a negative effect beyond a certain amount. Instead, I stick with anti-inflammatory herbs like oregano, cinnamon, ginger (the best so far) and rosemary.

- From the outset, changed to cast iron/stainless cookware and glass bottles, containers etc. Also stopped using soap and shampoo ( but don't smell, honestly). Sodium bicarb is used instead of toothpaste.

- Concentration and memory have improved, but not as much as I had hoped. Have only been on keto diet for 12 months, so hope that this continues to improve. Yet to try DMSA, NAC, or ALA, so doing this may help. No doubt my body is still detoxing and healing.

- EE program is fantastic and has been as beneficial as the diet. Has had a very calming effect on me.

That's been my experience so far, apologies for the long post. A big thankyou to all who have contributed and shared experiences throughout the diet threads, this knowledge is priceless.

Thanks will 01 for your feedback - it's always interesting to hear how other "ketomaniacs" are doing.

You seem to be doing quite well, and as you pointed out, you might still get more benefits in the future if you persist with the diet. Don't forget that you were on carbs for nearly 40 years - it takes time to undo the damage that this has caused. It's probably fair to say that the longer you have been on a high-carb diet, the longer it takes to heal the body.

And I do actually plan in one day a year where I gorge on carbs (but not gluten) - usually New Years Eve. Just as a reminder next morning as to why I am doing the KD (feeling crap).
:P

 

[Gaby]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

That is priceless will01, thank you for sharing!

If you have a predisposition to form kidney stones, you will benefit from potassium citrate supplementation along with what you did/are doing. That is, if you suspect it. Kidney stones hurt like hell, some have milder pains, but usually it is pretty dramatic.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Congrats on the successful transition to keto, will01. And thanks for sharing your journey.

 

[fabric]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Congratulations to you too!


I came across this rather interesting interview with Dr.Volek. Overall well rounded and covers a lot of topics.

_http://www.truehealthunlimited.com/blog/q-a-with-jeff-volek-phd-rd-the-nations-leading-low-carb-expert-scientific-researcher

 

[Eboard10]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

What a great post will01! It's nice to hear about other people's experience with transitioning to the ketogenic diet since it helps newcomers who might feel uneasy about switching to a high-fat diet to get more familiar with the effects that tend to occur when transitioning.

Prior to following the diet advice on this forum, my eating habits were woeful. How bad? My diet staples were sugar, wheat and dairy. Sugar was a lifelong habit, with whole blocks of chocolate, dessert foods, or cereal with milk routinely eaten as a meal in themselves. Snacks included sweet biscuits, chips, soft drinks and any other junk food you care to name. Geez, as I look back, it really was a miracle that I didn't develop a major health problem. As it was, a fair amount of tooth decay and what I believe to be an enlarged prostate, were the only health problems I was aware of.

I found myself in your same position, my diet basically consisted of pasta, toast and lots of sweets/cakes accompanied by mugs of either hot chocolate or cappucinos. I had several issues such as migraines, stomach aches and tooth decay which I just assumed to be normal as I always had them since childhood.

I began with a gluten/dairy/soy etc. free diet and after a month on this, tested for food sensitivities. Didn't discover any, but had an interesting experience with dairy, some 10 months or so later. Ate some cream cheese one day (in a pancake recipe) and was left feeling "high" for the rest of the day! Never felt anything like it before. Best guess would be the casein in the cheese, so have avoided all dairy since, with the exception of butter and ghee.

When going through the elimination diet I started feeling bad stomach reactions to diary products so I stopped drinking milk and eating cheese. I still have some butter which I seem to tolerate better.

A change to the ketogenic diet was made during May 2013. My transition from burning carbs to fats was smooth for the most part, however I did reduce carbs in stages (from the 72g a day recommended in LWB, to 50g,30g etc) over a couple of months. I would have to agree with what Gaby said here http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,34581.0.html though, and think that it would be a much easier transition to go VLC until ketosis is achieved. Speaking of being in ketosis, although I never tested for it, a doctor confirmed it for me. After telling him of the diet I was on, he said "I know, I can smell the ketones on your breath!".

Yeah, I never tested for ketosis but noticed some of the same changes that were being described on the forum, like initially having loose stools and shortly after starting to feel lighter and more energetic. The transition was later confirmed by my parents when they told me that I had a really odd breath :)

- Like most, lost quite a few kilos of weight (was already a "skinny") in the beginning, but gained it back eventually. Had to force feed myself a bit to get it started, with enough fat being the key.

I'm a prime example of how easy it is to follow the diet the wrong way. When I cut my carbs down to 0 I didn't increase my fat intake enough and as a consequence lost 8kg which for someone who used to weight 62kg is actually a lot! I basically became anorexic and had to eat three times the amount of fat to gain back weight. It's quite hard for people to increase their fat intake not so much because of the taste rather due to the early indoctrination and constant brainwashing about the "evil effects" of saturated fat.

- Still having issues with loose stools. Could be due to the above, or maybe a food sensitivity. Have tested most foods several times to be sure and am currently testing butter again. May need to eat just meat, fat and bone broth for a couple of weeks to test further. It could also be eating too much fat. Have stopped all veges except some lettuce occasionally. No nuts except macadamias very occasionally, but think I may stop altogether. Need to be very careful with fibre.

From my own experience, your body reaction to certain foods increases exponentially when going keto. My stomach seems fine with cruciferous veggies like broccoli, cauliflower, kale and cabbage. However, I get stomach aches when eating other vegetables like salads, spinach and even carrots. I guess it varies from person to person so trying out different veggie families to test for allergies would be a good idea.

- Supplements have proved very useful. Never had cramps in my life before starting the diet, but I know what they are now! Fortunately, enough salt and magnesium oil (mag chloride) took care of them.

- Concentration and memory have improved, but not as much as I had hoped. Have only been on keto diet for 12 months, so hope that this continues to improve. Yet to try DMSA, NAC, or ALA, so doing this may help. No doubt my body is still detoxing and healing.

I was also taking several supplements when transitioning and am now only taking magnesium and occasionally Vitamin C if I feel ill, seldomly now. It's very important to increase you salt intake when going keto; I had the same problems regarding cramps and after upping my salt intake they disappeared. I didn't notice any big improvements in concentration and memory either. Instead, my migraines almost completely disappeared, I stopped having stomach aches and my acne greatly improved too though it didn't disappear like it happened with others. Going keto was by far the best choice in my life but it was a lot harder than I initially thought and learnt several lessons before getting ketoadapted.

That's been my experience so far, apologies for the long post. A big thankyou to all who have contributed and shared experiences throughout the diet threads, this knowledge is priceless.

I'm really glad that you shared your experience with the forum. Brought back a lot of memories. :)

 

[Angchop]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

So I have been on the keto diet now for four months. I have lost about 25lbs and I feel amazing. I thought I would share my results from the cholesterol test I had done.

Triglycerides 100 mg/dl which is in their range of 150 or less

HDL 60 mg/dl Which is within their healthy range of greater than 46

LDL 126mg/dl which is in the range of 130 or less

Chol to hdlc ratio 3.4 (calc). Which is in their range of 5.0 or less

Total cholesterol 206mg/dl. Which according to the standard is high the range is 125-200

My blood pressure is 108/68

What I don't quite understand is, why is my total cholesterol out of their range, when all the other cholesterols fall within their standards?

Anyway, just thought I would share these results. This is after eating loads of fat for the last 4 months. :D

BTW my blood sugar level at the time was 83mg/dl


At the time I had this done, it was supposed to be a fasting blood test. I told them I had fasted, but remembered later that I had tea prior to the test with butter in it. I wonder if that would affect my cholesterol test.

 

[nicklebleu]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

What I don't quite understand is, why is my total cholesterol out of their range, when all the other cholesterols fall within their standards?

That's a well described effect with going keto - total cholesterol going up a bit, as well as HDL, which doesn't change the cholesterol/HDL ratio (it often improves it).

Total cholesterol is not a risk factor - your triglyceride levels are low, which is much more important! Besides the cut-off value for cholesterol is kept artificially low to increase the numbers of people to whom statins can be prescribed.

Forget total cholesterol - your markers are just perfect!

 

[Angchop]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

What I don't quite understand is, why is my total cholesterol out of their range, when all the other cholesterols fall within their standards?

That's a well described effect with going keto - total cholesterol going up a bit, as well as HDL, which doesn't change the cholesterol/HDL ratio (it often improves it).

Total cholesterol is not a risk factor - your triglyceride levels are low, which is much more important! Besides the cut-off value for cholesterol is kept artificially low to increase the numbers of people to whom statins can be prescribed.

Forget total cholesterol - your markers are just perfect!

Good to know!!! Thanks nickelbleu!