Killary Clinton, The Donald, or Jill Stein: The US Election

bjorn said:
[quote author= goyacobol]It's not very STO to overly advise I think:
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[quote author= session 09-19-98]A: Because an STS vehicle does not learn to be an STO candidate by determining the needs of another.[/quote]

True, but this being a network of STO candidates?

Maybe together we are somewhat capable of determining the need of others. (Helping others)

Knowledge about psychopathy is humanity's only salvation after all.

Besides, It's up to her to actually read it.
[/quote]

I've given away a few copies of Political Ponerology in the past. I never got much indication they were actually read. In one instance I got feedback that it was spot-on but too depressing to finish, then the request that I read some Ayn Rand to discuss in return which turned into sort of a standoff. I don't know that a simple book suggestion and gift would be considered overly advising under the right circumstances. I have no connection to Stein and I'm not financially in a position right now to be buying copies of books and giving them away, but if someone in this network knew someone connected to her campaign and thought they could give her a brief adequate explanation of it when presenting it, it might be worth a shot. Or there's always enclosing a letter, but who knows if even that will get read. At lest with the first option there is a chance of determining whether or not there is any receptivity, or if it's the case as someone claimed with Amy Goodman where they know she has been exposed to it and is not interested, or knows on which side her bread is buttered.
 
goyacobol said:
meta-agnostic,

Yes, I know the feeling. We have been programmed to think that we have free-choice. I haven't voted in the last 2 elections and I have used the logic that you can't blame me for either of the 2 majority parties candidates. The guilt feelings are not so easy to shake off. The best I can do is think of it as a vote against the illusion of free choice by abstaining. It still feels like acquiescing but I guess that is what the "predators mind" wants us to feel.

The last time I voted I was going to vote for Ron Paul in 2008 but he didn't show up on the ballot so I ended up voting in the 2008 primary for Chuck Baldwin who was on the ballot. Ron Paul dropped out later anyway.

As much as I detest Trump's many character faults which are legion he pushes some plus buttons talking about working with Russia to fight ISIS. But he is also such a liar how could you trust him to really follow through with that since he is 100% for Israeli Zionists at the same time.

So, I don't know that there is any easy way de-program from many years of illusional/delusional thinking but I will give my best shot. :(
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Thanks for this sentiment, goyacobol. It is up to everyone to decide for themselves based on wherever they find themselves currently on a path of development. It's a message to the universe one way or the other but it's important not to get too weighted down by it when there is in fact no chance our individual vote for president can have an effect on the outcome. Long before it would ever come within a one-vote margin to decide, it would be turned into a Florida 2000 situation or much worse.
 
bjorn said:
[quote author= goyacobol]It's not very STO to overly advise I think:
Click to expand...

[quote author= session 09-19-98]A: Because an STS vehicle does not learn to be an STO candidate by determining the needs of another.[/quote]

True, but this being a network of STO candidates?

Maybe together we are somewhat capable of determining the need of others. (Helping others)

Knowledge about psychopathy is humanity's only salvation after all.

Besides, It's up to her to actually read it.
[/quote]

bjorn,

This is certainly a study in psychopathy to watch Hillary and Donald but all I am saying is that it is more like learning about how bad the system is rather than making a choice. For me abstaining is my "symbol" to the universe that I get it.

I know you are kind of "brain-storming" to find that perfect choice and I think that is fine but I am thinking of this:

session September 19 said:
Q: To change it to your idea of what it is supposed to be. To control it to follow your judgment of how
things ought to be.
A: Exactly. The students are not expected to be the architects of the school.
Q: So, when you seek to impose or exert influence of any kind, you are, in effect, trying to play God
and taking it upon yourself to decide that there is something wrong with the universe that it is up to
you to fix, which amounts to judgment.
A: Yes, you see, one can advise, that is okay, but do not attempt to alter the lesson.
Click to expand...

I left a DVD with a friend that was produced by James and JoAnne Moriarty, an American couple who witnessed first-hand the so-called ‘Libyan Revolution’ in 2011, hoping he might watch it before voting for Hillary. Haven't heard a peep.
 
Re: Presidential debates 2016 between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

It's probably because I don't live in America, but I found Trump to on point in that debate, and the whole thing was basically an entertaining boxing match. The "Because you'd be in jail" quip was hilarious, the fly on Killary's face, (even it could smell the BS), and Bill's face when Trump started ripping into his sexual abuse history? Absolutely priceless.

14657261_10211458489766660_2831308403806694875_n.jpg


I agree with Bjorn on this one, it could go either way and we could see another upset to the PTB plans if Donald gets in. At this point, why the hell not. America is now clearly visible on the world stage as an absolute lunatic (strapped with weapons). Its plans are failing globally, it's collapsing on the inside, and its image is now thoroughly degraded thanks to this clown show. What a time to be alive.

Of course I say all this from the position of an observer. Then I remember I am stuck in this human body which will have to weather the storm of financial collapse, terrorism, war, plague and comets...
 
Big surprise...

“An email released in the recent Wikileaks dump laid out Democrat presidential nominee Hillary Clinton’s real plan for the future — and it didn’t include justice, equality or fairness. Instead, Clinton’s plan for the future revolved around maintaining political power while working to create an “unaware” and “compliant” citizenry.”

_http://conservativetribune.com/email-compliant-citizenry-plan/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=ConservativeTribune&utm_content=2016-10-11&utm_campaign=manualpost
 
Re: Presidential debates 2016 between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

In another post somewhere I talked about what lens one uses to evaluate something.

On the one hand, using the lens of parody or high camp, this culture has a lot to offer, including this Punch and Judy show of a national election. And certainly there are times when one needs a good laugh, after all.

On the other hand, from the perspective of that part in us that yearns for something deeper and more substantial that might see us through such harrowing times, we are left bereft.

.. I guess that's why I like Shakespeare:


What's interesting about this speech -- and this is the first I've seen of this Damian Lewis version -- but it's infused with irony, a sensibility seemingly lost on most Americans. Maybe it's always been that way and current times have just exacerbated the fact.

.. also in evidence in this tape, and Lewis does this well, is the great emotion felt just below his attempt at composure. I suppose you did see some of that when Hillary Clinton was fending off her feelings of ire and contempt just as Trump was having a go at her and her husband. But then her response is one dimensional. It's to paste on that manufactured smile, which she has been well trained to do. I suppose it's in some ways interesting just how transparent a device this is, especially since all such devices are just so transparent at this point. Maybe that's why it was painful to watch, since it's pointing to such a great failure that can't help but somehow represent us as Americans.

In any case, no one is right or wrong in how they are viewing this debate here. We're just wrangling with how best to get through it all, while at the same time being mindful of those the deeper channels where there always resides the possibility of true nurturance, regardless of all that's being flung in our faces.


Funny, I'm ending here on the quality of mercy. I just bumped into this on Youtube. And I certainly wasn't thinking to be merciful when it comes to the dangerous shortcomings of our so called leaders. But, maybe something in my psyche was drawn to this idea in spite of that fact.

"… consider this, that in the course of justice none of us should see salvation. We do pray for mercy. And that same prayer doth teach us all to render the deeds of mercy."

William Shakespeare
 
Re: Presidential debates 2016 between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

The topics for the final debate have been posted and a Clinton Staffer is under pressure to immediately resign, due to a comment that upset "the Catholics".

The moderator of the third and final US presidential debate of the 2016 election has announced the six topics the two candidates will discuss, the Commission on Presidential Debates said in a press release.

Topics for Final US 2016 Presidential Debate in Las Vegas Announced
https://sputniknews.com/us/201610131046279837-final-presidential-debates-2016/

Each of the topics will be used for one of the six 15-minute segments, the release added.

"Subject to possible changes because of news developments, the topics for the October 19 debate are as follows… debt and entitlements, immigration, economy, Supreme Court, foreign hot spots, fitness to be president," the release stated on Wednesday.

Chris Wallace of Fox News will moderate the final debate at the University of Nevada in Las Vegas on October 19.


Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton’s spokeswoman Jennifer Palmieri should resign for mocking Catholicism in an email exchange, the advocacy group CatholicVote.org said in a press release.
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US Catholic Group Demands Clinton Spokeswoman Resignation
https://sputniknews.com/us/201610131046279576-clinton-religion-mocking/

The release called on Palmieri to resign immediately.

"Make no mistake, had Clinton staff and allies spoken this way about other groups, they would be dismissed," the release said on Wednesday. "Just imagine if Clinton’s spokesperson was caught calling prominent Muslims or Jewish converts frauds for embracing their faith and mocking them for doing so because it was socially acceptable."

The email exchange was among thousands of documents released this week by WikiLeaks. "I imagine they [Catholics] think it is the most socially acceptable politically conservative religion," Palmeiri wrote. "Their rich friends wouldn’t understand if they became evangelicals."

In addition, the release charged that bigotry is endemic in the Clinton campaign, as evidenced by Clinton’s recent characterization of her opponents as an irredeemable basket of deplorables.
 
Re: Presidential debates 2016 between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump




Thank you for sharing those Shakespeare quotes Heather. "Trying out how to best get through it all," indeed. It's easy to be cynical, but such an emotion imo is more about protecting ourselves from disappointment, disgust, and hurt. I suppose laughter and satire are the best balm we can hope for. That and the hope and faith that what we do individually matters in spite of the insanity of the major presidential choices, and wider geopolitical turmoil.
 
Re: Presidential debates 2016 between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

Cheers to that, whitecoat!

As to the Shakespeare quotes, so glad you enjoyed them. I'd not encountered these particular performances before and found them quite moving.
 
Re: Presidential debates 2016 between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

[quote author= Whitecoast]It's easy to be cynical, but such an emotion imo is more about protecting ourselves from disappointment, disgust, and hurt.[/quote]

Sure, in a way it's more comfortable to be cynical. If you don't expect it to improve you can't be really disappointed. But if you do just that, you might miss out on all the little positive chances that help build the bigger ones. And they are out there.

But I could be wrong of course, and maybe I am to young to be cynical.

But I rather not let's such thought prevail over me when other people are given it all they have against the forces of Entropy. This fight ain't over yet, far from it. Thanks to people who keep resisting against all odds.
 
Re: Presidential debates 2016 between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

I just noticed a typo in my prior post. I meant "whitecoast." (White Cliffs of Dover?)


The problem with cynicism as a disposition is that it's unchanging. That forecloses on a lot if you're trying to truthfully assess something. I just thought of the Buddhist "beginner's mind." Without preconceptions one is better able to see things objectively. It also allows for discovery.

Of course, can we really watch a presidential debate without our preconceptions? Is it even wise to, given politicians so often thrive on deception?

So, I suppose, as usual, it's to find a balance of some sort. Allow in new impressions, but don't altogether forget the context in which they are occurring.
 
Re: Presidential debates 2016 between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

bjorn said:
[quote author= Whitecoast]It's easy to be cynical, but such an emotion imo is more about protecting ourselves from disappointment, disgust, and hurt.
Click to expand...

Sure, in a way it's more comfortable to be cynical. If you don't expect it to improve you can't be really disappointed. But if you do just that, you might miss out on all the little positive chances that help build the bigger ones. And they are out there.

But I could be wrong of course, and maybe I am to young to be cynical.

But I rather not let's such thought prevail over me when other people are given it all they have against the forces of Entropy. This fight ain't over yet, far from it. Thanks to people who keep resisting against all odds. [/quote]

By today's standards, I guess you could type-cast Shakespeare as "an entertainer". Some scholars have questioned if he wrote "all his plays" but never the less, his work reflected the time frame he was in.

William Shakespeare was alive during the reigns of Queen Elizabeth I and King James I. Throughout Queen Elizabeth I's reign, Shakespeare wrote plays that were happy, optimistic and confident to complement the Elizabethan mood, while throughout King James I's reign, Shakespeare wrote plays that were dark and cynical, showcasing the Jacobean period's insecurities.

The war that occurred in Shakespeare's time was the Anglo-Spanish War between England and Spain, and it was fought mainly as a religious conflict between Protestant England and Catholic Spain. Phillip II of Spain considered himself a defender of the Catholic faith, while Elizabeth I of England re-established royal supremacy over the Church of England in defiance of the Pope.
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Getting back to the Presidential debate, we have two leading candidates,(if either is elected), who may face the real prospects of "a Declared War". Killary has had her hands into molding conflicts and a long history of at least 24 years in deceptive posturing against our Constitutional Laws. She gives the impression, "all she wants to do - is be the one who pushes that Red Button - throwing the switch that decimates half the World or more, to crown her career"? Trump, on the other hand, knows how to play with money and rubs elbows with Wall St. but what experience or knowledge does he possess in dealing with bureaucratic diplomacy, internal Affairs of State or Constitutional and Maritime Laws? I'm not aware, if he has spent any time in any of the Arm Forces, to have "a real feel" of what might be involved in a War scenario? I can't get past, that Trump reminds me of the famous and flamboyant pianist and entertainer, Liberace!
Same hair-do and public mannerisms to sway the crowds into a frenzy.

Below is a partial list of entertainers that served in the Arm Forces:

Alan Hale Jr - US Coast Guard. Aldo Ray . US Navy. UDT frogman- Okinawa .
Art Carney - US Army. Wounded on Normandy beach- D-Day. Limped for the rest of his life.
Brian Keith - US Marines. Radioman/Gunner in Dauntless dive-bombers.
Buddy Hackett - US Army anti-aircraft gunner.
Burgess Meredith - US Army Air Corps.
Clark Gable - US Army Air Corps. B-17 gunner over Europe.
Cesar Romero - US Coast Guard. Coast Guard. Participated in the invasions of Tinian and Saipan on the assault transport USS Cavalier.
Charles Bronson - US Army Air Corps. B-29 gunner- wounded in action.
Charles Durning - US Army. Landed at Normandy on D-Day. Shot multiple times awarded the Silver & Bronze Star & 3 Purple Hearts. Survived Malmedy Massacre.
Charlton Heston - US Army Air Corps. Radio operator and aerial gunner on a B-25- Aleutians .
Chuck Connors - US Army. Tank-warfare instructor.
Claude Akins - US Army. Signal Corps. - Burma and the Philippines .
Clifton James - US Army- South Pacific. Was awarded the Silver Star - Bronze Star- and Purple Heart.
Dale Robertson - US Army. Tank Commander in North Africa under Patton. Wounded twice. Battlefield Commission.
Danny Aiello - US Army. Lied about his age to enlist at 16. Served three years.
DeForest Kelley - US Army Air Corps. Dennis Weaver - US Navy. Pilot.
Denver Pyle - US Navy. Wounded in the Battle of Guadalcanal . Medically discharged.
Don Adams - US Marines. Wounded on Guadalcanal - then served as a Drill Instructor.
Don Knotts - US Army- Pacific Theater.
Don Rickles - US Navy aboard USS Cyrene.
Earl Holliman US Navy. Lied about his age to enlist. Discharged after a year when the Navy found out.
Ed McMahon - US Marines. Fighter Pilot. (Flew OE-1 Bird Dogs over Korea as well.)
Eddie Albert - US Coast Guard. Bronze Star with Combat V for saving several Marines under heavy fire as pilot of a landing craft during the invasion of Tarawa.
Efram Zimbalist Jr. - US Army. Purple Heart for a severe wound received at Huertgen Forest .
Ernest Borgnine - US Navy. Gunners Mate 1c- destroyer USS Lamberton. 10 years active duty. Discharged 1941- re-enlisted after Pearl Harbor .
Fess Parker - US Navy and US Marines. Booted from pilot training for being too tall- joined Marines as a radio operator.
Forrest Tucker - US Army. Enlisted as a private- rose to Lieutenant.
Frank Sutton - US Army. Took part in 14 assault landings- including Leyte- Luzon- Bataan and Corregidor .
Fred Gwynne - US Navy. Radioman.
Gene Autry - US Army Air Corps. Crewman on transports that ferried supplies over "The Hump" in the China- Burma-India Theater.
George Gobel - comedian, Army Air Corps, taught fighter pilots. Johnny Carson made a big deal about it once on the Tonight Show, to which George said "the Japs didn't get past us.
George Kennedy - US Army. Enlisted after Pearl Harbor - stayed in sixteen years.
Harry Carey Jr - US Navy.
Harry Dean Stanton - US Navy. Served aboard an LST in the Battle of Okinawa.
Harvey Korman - US Navy.
Henry Fonda - US Navy. Destroyer USS Satterlee.
Hugh O'Brian - US Marines.
Jack Klugman - US Army.
Jack Palance - US Army Air Corps. Severely injured bailing out of a burning B-24 bomber.
Jack Warden - US Navy- 1938-1942- then US Army- 1942-1945. 101st Airborne Division.
Jackie Coogan - US Army Air Corps. Volunteered for gliders and flew troops and materials into Burma behind enemy lines.
James Arness - US Army. As an infantryman- he was severely wounded at Anzio - Italy
James Gregory - US Navy and US Marines.
James Stewart - US Army Air Corps. Bomber pilot who rose to the rank of General.
Jason Robards - US Navy. was aboard heavy cruiser USS Northampton when it was sunk off Guadalcanal . Also served on the USS Nashville during the invasion of the Philippines - surviving a kamikaze hit that caused 223 casualties.
John Carroll - US Army Air Corps. Pilot in North Africa . Broke his back in a crash.
John Wayne - Declared "4F medically unfit" due to pre-existing injuries- he nonetheless attempted to volunteer three times (Army- Navy and Film Corps.) so he gets honorable mention.
Jonathan Winters - USMC. Battleship USS Wisconsin and Carrier USS Bon Homme Richard. Anti-aircraft gunner- Battle of Okinawa.
Karl Malden - US Army Air Corps. 8th Air Force- NCO.
Kirk Douglas - US Navy. Sub-chaser in the Pacific. Wounded in action and medically discharged.
Larry Storch US Navy. Sub tender USS Proteus with Tony Curtis.
Lee Marvin - US Marines. Sniper. Wounded in action on Saipan . Buried in Arlington National Cemetery - Sec. 7A next to Greg Boyington and Joe Louis.
Lee Van Cleef - US Navy. Served aboard a sub chaser then a mine sweeper.
Mel Brooks - US Army. Combat Engineer. Saw action in the Battle of the Bulge.
Mickey Rooney - US Army under Patton. Bronze Star.
Mickey Spillane - US Army Air Corps- Fighter Pilot and later Instructor Pilot.
Neville Brand - US Army- Europe. Was awarded the Silver Star and Purple Heart.
Norman Fell - US Army Air Corps.- Tail Gunner- Pacific Theater.
Pat Hingle - US Navy. Destroyer USS Marshall
Paul Newman - US Navy Rear seat gunner/radioman- torpedo bombers of USS Bunker Hill.
Peter Graves - US Army Air Corps.
Randolph Scott - Tried to enlist in the Marines but was rejected due to injuries sustained in US Army, World War 1.
Robert Altman - US Army Air Corps. B-24 Co-Pilot.
Robert Mitchum - US Army.
Robert Montgomery - US Navy.
Robert Preston - US Army Air Corps. Intelligence Officer
Robert Ryan - US Marines.
Robert Stack - US Navy. Gunnery Officer.
Robert Taylor - US Navy. Instructor Pilot.
Rock Hudson - US Navy. Aircraft mechanic- the Philippines .
Rod Serling - US Army. 11th Airborne Division in the Pacific. He jumped at Tagaytay in the Philippines and was later wounded in Manila.
Rod Steiger - US Navy. Was aboard one of the ships that launched the Doolittle Raid.
Ronald Reagan - US Army. Was a 2nd Lt. in the Cavalry Reserves before the war. His poor eyesight kept him from being sent overseas with his unit when war came so he transferred to the Army Air Corps Public Relations Unit where he served for the duration.
Russell Johnson - US Army Air Corps. B-24 crewman who was awarded Purple Heart when his aircraft was shot down by the Japanese in the Philippines
Soupy Sales - US Navy. Served on USS Randall in the South Pacific.
Sterling Hayden - US Marines and OSS . Smuggled guns into Yugoslavia and parachuted into Croatia. Silver Star.
Steve Forrest - US Army. Wounded - Battle of the Bulge.
Steve Reeves - US Army - Philippines .
Ted Knight - US Army- Combat Engineers.
Telly Savalas - US Army.
Tom Bosley - US Navy.
Tony Curtis - US Navy. Sub tender USS Proteus. In Tokyo Bay for the surrender of Japan.
Tyrone Power - US Marines. Transport pilot in the Pacific Theater.
Victor Mature - US Coast Guard.
Walter Matthau - US Army Air Corps.- B-24 Radioman/Gunner and cryptographer.
Wayne Morris - US Navy fighter pilot - USS Essex. Downed seven Japanese fighters.
Wiliam Holden - US Army Air Corps.
William Conrad - US Army Air Corps. Fighter Pilot. And of course we have Audie Murphy, America's most-decorated soldier, who became a Hollywood star as a result of his US Army service that included his being awarded the Medal of Honor.

How many of today's Hollywood elite, sports celebs and politicians put their careers on hold to enlist for service in Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria?
 
Re: Presidential debates 2016 between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump

angelburst29 said:
By today's standards, I guess you could type-cast Shakespeare as "an entertainer". Some scholars have questioned if he wrote "all his plays" but never the less, his work reflected the time frame he was in.

William Shakespeare was alive during the reigns of Queen Elizabeth I and King James I. Throughout Queen Elizabeth I's reign, Shakespeare wrote plays that were happy, optimistic and confident to complement the Elizabethan mood, while throughout King James I's reign, Shakespeare wrote plays that were dark and cynical, showcasing the Jacobean period's insecurities.

The war that occurred in Shakespeare's time was the Anglo-Spanish War between England and Spain, and it was fought mainly as a religious conflict between Protestant England and Catholic Spain. Phillip II of Spain considered himself a defender of the Catholic faith, while Elizabeth I of England re-established royal supremacy over the Church of England in defiance of the Pope.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

angelburst29, I hope that's not all you have to bring to Shakespeare's writings! (whoever "Shakespeare" may, in fact, have been).

Yes, the plays were meant as entertainment, which is the nature of plays in general. But there's a great deal you're missing out on in not experiencing their nuance, complexity (hilarity, sometimes) and poetry. To reduce all that to a few lines from Wikipedia I think is a real pity.

Speaking of poetry.. it exists in a way that arouses in us realms of understanding and experience outside of language itself. Logic, on the other hand -- as most writers know -- can lead us into a lot of contradictory traps.. as opposed to poetry, which can open up meaning and possibility.

I know this is a bit off the theme of this thread. And yet meaning itself resides in how we "language" things. Whatever one's views are on Winston Churchill, for example, the poetic mastery of his language (given he wrote his own speeches) one imagines had imparted something valuable to the citizens of a country under attack.

But, we're at a time when.. well, one hopes Trump will actually find enough grammar to coherently finish a thought he wants to convey. Does any of this matter? If he was a "good guy" who meant well would it matter that he can barely speak his native tongue?

.. I don't know how to answer such a hypothetical question, but I imagine that a good guy or gal ready to serve in a very important leadership position might have at one point or other read at least one book.

Sorry to get off track here, but it could be that somewhere in all that I'm saying there's something relevant to consider.

To shift things somewhat, I'd add that I usually find I'm most in trouble the minute I think I "know" something. I suppose that's very Socratic of me.

In any case, I guess I'm just making a plea for not knowing. For remaining open. I know that when I read Laura's writings I do get a sense of that in operation, which is how she's arrived at new ideas -- ideas she hadn't even a clue of when first starting out.

Edit=Quote
 
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