Knowledge protects ?

[Fifth Way]

I don't think you understand the concept behind this forum nor behind this network.

you may be right on that one. the great arc just gave me a lesson though ...

Hey! At least we found your sacred cow.

Good for you. I'm still looking.

 

[Renaissance]

Samvado, I think maybe the smartest horse would just stand there, no matter how much pain it went through, because it knows that when it gives into the pain, it will be a slave to it. It will just turn into a coward. Eventually, the people who are whipping it will give up, and get some other horse to do their work. Sure, the horse may go through lots of pain, but at least it has some kind of a will, instead of just being an "engine".

Is this what the Palestinians and the Lebonese and the Iraqis should do? To stand there and take the pain? ...because the Israeli and American governments will eventually just get tired off butchering them??

It seems even if your horse has some will it doesn't have much knowledge or desire to use it if it does. If I were the horse and getting whipped I'd kick the darn jerk in the $#$%&#!!!!

(for any agents reading I am not advocating violence, but using an anology to stress how knowledge applied in a situation of attack means doing something in defence)

 

[Renaissance]

it is a pitty that you are still believing your mind can ultimately tell you the TRUTH, It cannot. And that is not to say it is of no value - it has great value BUT only for those who also know its limits.

I guess there is nothing more to be said then. how would you ever grasp the concept of a master with your mind. It is the no-mind state that seperates the master from all others. Osho is dead but there are masters still living. If you are very blessed maybe one day you will find one.

Please show me the way Samvado! PLEASE OH PLEASE!!! My feeble mind needs a master to show me the way!

(for any agents reading, the above is a dramatization to show the parallels between non-sense/non-thinking and needing to be led around by a master. Don't send any 'masters' my way)

 

[Russ]

Is this what the Palestinians and the Lebonese and the Iraqis should do? To stand there and take the pain? ...because the Israeli and American governments will eventually just get tired off butchering them??

I wasn't talking about them when I said "stand there", I was talking about the horse and its specific situation. When translated, the "stand there" turns into something different for the P/L/I, imo.

It seems even if your horse has some will it doesn't have much knowledge or desire to use it if it does.

Why not? If standing there works for the horse, then it works. Just because its "standing there" doesn't mean to say its not doing anything.

 

[Vulcan59]

Sometime back, someone sent me an audio recording in MP3 format of a lecture by Rajneesh. The title was F**K. Good for a laugh and very accurate but I have my doubts of him being a Master.

 

[Alana]

The title of the thread is: Knowledge protects?

I will attempt to answer that, because it is something that i have been contemplating myself, reading and writing about (in my journal that is :) )

But first i'd like to share an excerpt from Philokalia, vol III, Niptik chapters, pg 15 (translation from greek, my own):

"There's a war against the soul that happens in secrecy by thoughts from the evil spirits. Because soul is invisible, the malevolent forces fight against her in invisibility, as is her nature. [And if one could see, would notice] between them and her, the existence of weapons, manipulations and horrible wars, stubborn fights, and defeats and victories for both armies. Only one thing is missing from this thought-war I am talking about, that exists in a physical war: the time of war. Because physical war knows to set the time and the way it will come about. Yet thought-war commences suddenly and without warning, penetrates to the depths of the heart, and from there the evil forces can trap and fatally wound the soul and kill it.
[...]
It is by recognizing that first evil thought in one's mind, and by not accepting it, not allowing it to become in the mind, that ensures the victory of the soul."

Through accumulation of KNOWLEDGE we are aware that we are in the mercy of forces we can't see, we can't understand, thus they have the upper hand. And the battle is in our thoughts! So the first knowledge to attain is the KNOWLEDGE of yourself, as others mentioned, otherwise how would you be able to distinguish which of your thoughts are attacks to keep you into defeat mode, and which ones are your true self's thoughts, the ones that will give you THE freedom eventually?

But knowledge of your self is not enough. One needs KNOWLEDGE of the enemy, their nature and their modes of attack. I believe that our knowledge of psychopaths and their works is an introduction for us to understanding the entropy overlords and their invisible maneuverings. I think I begin to understand even better what Don Juan meant when he said about the old seers of the conquest:

By understanding the nature of man, they [the seers of the Conquest] were able to reach the incontestable conclusion that if seers can hold their own in facing [human] petty tyrants, they can certainly face the unknown with impunity, and then they can even stand the presence of the unknowable.

So, KNOWLEDGE PROTECTS indeed, because all we know and are aware of so far, are through knowledge, which becomes all the weapons we need to not give in to the enemy. And by expecting that you will be attacked, you are prepared to counter it. How likely is it to survive a walk through a jungle in your business suit, coffee in one hand, briefcase in the other? One needs to know the environment he/she is in, and be aware of the dangers in it, and be prepared for them by expecting them.

That's my understanding this far.

i

 

[Novelis]

On the other hand, 4D is a different case entirely. How does one get real knowledge of 4D without being there? One can speculate all one wants, but certainly any "knowledge" one has of 4D would be different in quality from the knowledge one has of this world. That must be taken into account. Speculations can have a certain probability of being correct based upon how much data one has in hand and the quality of that data. Well, we don't really have any hard data about 4D. We have hearsay that comes from channelled material. We have some ideas from math and physics of what a realm that would permit travel in space-time might be like. But, all in all, there is very little to go on. So, can we really say we can have any "knowledge" at all of 4D? Or that we can even attain such knowledge?

I had an interesting thought about this the other day.
When a baby is developing in the womb, it's quite likely that it can hear sounds and "senses" the world outside in a limited way, but does the baby try to understand the world he isn't ready for yet by analysing the sounds and imagining different possibilities?
No. The baby will see the new world when it's ready. We are here, now, with these limitations whether we like it or not, so it's here we must learn.

Please show me the way Samvado! PLEASE OH PLEASE!!! My feeble mind needs a master to show me the way!

(for any agents reading, the above is a dramatization to show the parallels between non-sense/non-thinking and needing to be led around by a master. Don't send any 'masters' my way)

In terms of kung Fu at least, a master is someone who understands and can apply the principles of the art, in that way, a master is just a name certificating one who is able to teach the art. True "mastery" of an art is an ideal and quite impossible. I prefer using the term teacher for that reason, and finding a good teacher is incredibly valuable IMO.

G. is a difficult theme to discuss in brief. I would just want to say I am not sure he was a master.

Who is a true master? G. Died, he didn't vanish off the face of the Earth. He might have been a good teacher if one was ready for his teachings, but I think it's safe to assume he had more to learn...

I think that what we are looking at is the human application of certain ecological models of wildlife. When the rabbits become too numerous, the foxes increase and eat more of them until they are almost gone and then the foxes begin to die off from starvation and the rabbits then begin to increase. And of course, during any given period, "only the strong and smart" of either population survive during the dominance of the other.

I heard this analogy on the podcast you did, I like it.
Perhaps just to add another dimension to it, the foxes and rabbits can be as strong and smart as they like, but if the lake they drink from runs dry, both will end up dead.
Water, according to Daoism runs closely with the "Way", Psychopaths (Foxes) are pawns of the Lizzies, whom have strayed far from the way, they will not last. The rabbits need to be clever to survive the foxes, but remember to return to the lake for a drink when you need it. In other words, knowledge protects, but stay with the lake.
"Know the light, but keep to the dark."- Tao Te Ching.

 

[Ryan]

For more see here: http://home.att.net/~meditation/Osho.html

Now we know what kind of a horse he was....

Not to mention this bit:

Worried about worldwide overpopulation, Rajneesh pressured his disciples to undergo sexual reproduction sterilization procedures. Unfortunately, he did not consider the demographics of population growth. The current population expansion is largely a phenomena of poor Third World nations, not a problem originating in the USA, Canada, and Europe, where birth rates are actually declining. North America and Europe are only experiencing population increases due to legal and illegal immigration from Third World nations. Having his Western disciples medically sever their reproductive capabilities only added to this imbalance, and many former disciples now regret they complied without question to his thoughtless edicts.

Discouraging followers from having families is a common device of gurus to keep disciples from spending money on children rather than handing their cash over to the guru himself. Childless disciples make better workers and are usually more subservient. Thus, sexual sterilization fit into Rajneesh's business plan and his desire to create an army of followers who felt that "only the relationship to guru is important." Rajneesh was the son of an ambitious Jain businessman, and he was more like his father than he ever realized. Rajneesh's enlightenment was overlaid on top of a mind attuned to business and making money.

samvado, your "master" sounds like a psychopath and a parasite. Good riddance to him.

 

[Renaissance]

I wasn't talking about them when I said "stand there", I was talking about the horse and its specific situation. When translated, the "stand there" turns into something different for the P/L/I, imo.

I think that what you mean is that no matter the degree of suffering the pathocracy pushes onto another - that one should not do their bidding, yes? If so I agree, and sorry I jumped to conclusions.

 

[Renaissance]

In terms of kung Fu at least, a master is someone who understands and can apply the principles of the art, in that way, a master is just a name certificating one who is able to teach the art. True "mastery" of an art is an ideal and quite impossible. I prefer using the term teacher for that reason, and finding a good teacher is incredibly valuable IMO.

I agree a good teacher can be valuable. It seems that there's a fit between a student's ability and a teacher's. In what samvado described, one must not use thought (or at least avoid using too much of it) to find a 'master'. Such a 'student' would deserve such a 'master', imo. However, samvado may have changed his mind, as it seems the post in which he said that in has been deleted.

 

[Russ]

I wasn't talking about them when I said "stand there", I was talking about the horse and its specific situation. When translated, the "stand there" turns into something different for the P/L/I, imo.

I think that what you mean is that no matter the degree of suffering the pathocracy pushes onto another - that one should not do their bidding, yes? If so I agree, and sorry I jumped to conclusions.

Yeah that is what I meant :)