Kundalini

I can't tell you that because I don't know. What I can tell you is that you should also familiarise yourself with the works of G.I. Gurdjieff if you wish to understand why this forum exists and what purpose it serves.

What I believe is what Cassiopeans say.

We are STS.I'd rather to believe STO.
 
Another book you might add to your reading list is In Search of the Miraculous. This is quite widely known so it may have been translated into your first language?

Gurdjieff said:
In so-called ‘occult’ literature you have probably met with the expression ‘Kundalini,’ ‘the fire of Kundalini,’ or the ‘serpent of Kundalini.’ This expression is often used to designate some kind of strange force which is present in man and which can be awakened. But none of the known theories gives the right explanation of the force of Kundalini. Sometimes it is connected with sex, with sex energy, that is with the idea of the possibility of using sex energy for other purposes.

This latter is entirely wrong because Kundalini can be in anything. And above all, Kundalini is not anything desirable or useful for man’s development. It is very curious how these occultists have got hold of the word from somewhere but have completely altered its meaning and from a very dangerous and terrible thing have made something to be hoped for and to be awaited as some blessing.In reality Kundalini is the power of imagination, the power of fantasy, which takes the place of a real function.

When a man dreams instead of acting, when his dreams take the place of reality, when a man imagines himself to be an eagle, a lion, or a magician, it is the force of Kundalini acting in him. Kundalini can act in all centers and with its help all the centers can be satisfied with the imaginary instead of the real. A sheep which considers itself a lion or a magician lives under the power of Kundalini.Kundalini is a force put into men in order to keep them in their present state.

If men could really see their true position and could understand all the horror of it, they would be unable to remain where they are even for one second. They would begin to seek a way out and they would quickly find it, because there is a way out; but men fail to see it simply because they are hypnotized. Kundalini is the force that keeps them in a hypnotic state. ‘To awaken’ for man means to be ‘dehypnotized.’ In this lies the chief difficulty and in this also lies the guarantee of its possibility, for there is no organic reason for sleep and man can awaken.

Theoretically he can, but practically it is almost impossible because as soon as a man awakens for a moment and opens his eyes, all the forces that caused him to fall asleep begin to act upon him with tenfold energy and he immediately falls asleep again, very often dreaming that he is awake or is awakening.There are certain states in ordinary sleep in which a man wants to awaken but cannot. He tells himself that he is awake but, in reality, he continues to sleep – and this can happen several times before he finally awakes.

But in ordinary sleep, once he is awake, he is in a different state; in hypnotic sleep the case is otherwise; there are no objective characteristics, at any rate not at the beginning of awakening; a man cannot pinch himself in order to make sure that he is not asleep. And if, which God forbid, a man has heard anything about objective characteristics, Kundalini at once transforms it all into imagination and dreams.

From Ouspensky's book In Search of the Miraculous
 
axj said:
anart said:
I think you're twisting Gurdjieff's words to fit your own wishful thinking about "kundalini". He makes it very clear that kundalini energy is what keeps man trapped in illusion and strengthening such energy is strengthening that illusion.

As you may have noticed I am not denying that Gudjieff's description of "Kundalini" may be correct. What I am trying to understand is what this "Kundalini energy" is and how exactly it "strengthens the illusion".

From my personal experience and the experience of others who are also very familiar with Gurdjieff, working with the chakras and the energy in the body and along the spine has only beneficial effects. It is a way of expanding your horizons about yourself and it also creates a better and more direct connection to those deeper aspect, such as the Higher Self.

I have never experienced anything even close to a connection between any kind of energy in the body and "strengthening the illusion".

If you have any direct experience with this, I would like to hear it. If you have no direct experience of this, then all you have is a theory.

I want to add, even it's a little bit late, that what is described as "expanding your horizons" and "connection with the higher self" as a possible use for kundalini can't go together at all, because as we know by countless examples, such things as connecting with the higher self or expanding your horizon, by a man who is asleep, this isn't perceived as beneficial at all (at least at the beginning).

While a man is asleep, such developments don't feel comfortable. In it's dream this feels he is threatend and this discomfort urges him to stop whatever he does. And further, if the energy called kundalini is used to strengthen the illusion, it means, that a man who is asleep use this energy all the time to stay asleep, or at least every now and then to adjust his sleep position without to know it. So if you searching to activate some hidden energy by playing around with your chakras without to even know what exactly you are doing or for what purpose these things exist in the first place (maybe you do something entirely different without to realize it), it is very likely that you only acting on your imagination, convincing yourself of being a magican who is awake and aware of what he is doing. Such an assumption just leads you deeper in the dream while you play with something what "feels good", a phenomenon you can perform within your dream that you labeled "kundalini" to feel somewhat "speschul" (i like that word).

So, if like to hear some experiences about what you call kundalini, you won't get that here, because what you and others perceive as kundalini energy and its effects, is something entirely subjective and of no use for what this forum is about.

This may help you or not, but this is how i see it from my current understanding.
 
no-man's-land said:
So, if like to hear some experiences about what you call kundalini, you won't get that here, because what you and others perceive as kundalini energy and its effects, is something entirely subjective and of no use for what this forum is about.

That's for sure! I think the whole new age crowd took up this word to focus on subjective experience over seeing objective reality. Instead of objectively seeing the inter dynamics of energy exchanges at one level and also, within that dynamic, seeing the meanings behind things at at even another level it focuses on experiences only and equates the experience itself with wisdom, understanding and 'spirituality.' As a result subjective belief now becomes reality, probably even more so now, which is the whole basis of YCYOR.
 
Yad said:
I think that there were also kundalini teachings in Native Americans,European wizards and African Sangoma,
but the kundalini,this word,originated from Yogas of India,
so we should focus on the meaning of kundalini from India.
Tibetan lamas practice Yoga,too.It is the inheritance from Indian Yogi.
They came from India and began to live in Tibet,so there is knowledge available.

And the entire world - all of humanity is asleep. Get it???
 
I would like to know if traditional Advaita Vedanta (by Shankara) and Yoga Nidra (by Saraswati) are devoid of Kundalini.
Because I kind of like those two, but Kundalini gives me the creeps.
Does anyone know?
Thanks.

PS
***
I discarded Ramakrishna Mission (the largest Neo-Advaita movement) because its founder (Ramakrishna)
had learned Kundalini, and the Kundalini snake is even in their emblem (although the use of Kundalini
is marginal because it's not compulsory):
MISSION%20LOGO--3.jpg


'''The wavy waters in the picture are symbolic of Karma, the lotus of Bhakti, and the rising-sun of Jnana. The encircling serpent is indicative of Yoga and awakened Kunadalini Shakti, while the swan in the picture stands for Paramatman. Therefore, the ideal of the picture is that by the union of Karma, Jnana, Bhakti and Yoga, the vision of the Paramatman is obtained''
:/

_http://www.rkmkamarpukur.org/Emblem%20%20And%20Ideology.aspx
 
I think I have found the answer. :)
Traditional/original Advaita Vedanta does not include Kundalini.
Kundalini was introduced in the 19th/20th century Advaita Vedanta (Neo-vedanta) movements, to make it appear more mystical (so it could attract more followers).

On James Schwartz's site (he is the author of ''How to Attain Enlightenment – the Vision of Nonduality''), there's an article ''Vedanta and Kundalini'':

_http://www.shiningworld.com/top/images/stories/pub-pdfs/Articles/Vedanta_and_Kundalini.pdf

Some interesting parts:

An awakened kundalini is not enlightenment.

Vedanta questions the whole idea underlying yoga. It says that the
problem with this union' idea is: anything that was caused by action,
karma, will only last for a finite time. When the energy that generated the
experience plays out the experience ends and one returns to a state of
separation, limitation and incompleteness. Kundalani is a karmic force. It is
the Self operating in time. It may lead you to the Self or it may lead you far
away. It may even cause madness in people who are weak minded. Much
of the mild insanity you see in spiritual people is caused by their inability to
integrate their spiritual experiences into everyday life. So the kundalini,
the energy of the Self, is a very mixed bag and not something to be sought
after.
If it comes, it comes and you must learn how to deal with it. But
rather than cultivate it, it is better to cultivate devotion for God. Yes, bhakti
is a dualistic path, just like kundalini, but cultivating love for the Self in
some form is more natural than forcing the body and mind to do a lot of
very complicated and potentially dangerous practices. Vedanta says that
experiential sadhanas may purify the mind but they will not produce
enlightenment. This is so because enlightenment is the removal of Self
ignorance. Experience will not remove ignorance. Only the knowledge
that arises with experience can do that. If you don't know this you can
have all sorts of amazing mystical experience and be as Self ignorant as an
animal.

You will experience oneness, wholeness, and limitlessness for a time and that
experience will wear off and you will then experience duality,
incompleteness and limitation once again. This is why kundalini yoga and
all the other yogas rarely bring about enlightenment.

Kundalini is a very fickle bitch. She is completely unfaithful and inconstant. One minute she is
seducing you and driving you wild with passion and the next minute she
abandons you without so much as a by-your-leave and you end up angry
and depressed. Aim for shanti, it beats shakti every time.
 
Hi Medulin,

Please do the forum search on kundalini and read it. In short from cassiopaea glossary

http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=431&lsel=K

Esoteric teaching on this word varies greatly from source to source.

All sources agree that this is a sort of force or effect that is localized at the base of the spine and can be activated either spontaneously or through deliberate exercises. Kundalini is said to rise from the first chakra, along the spine, possibly all the way to the crown chakra. It is sometimes compared to a serpent that lies coiled at the base of the spine. Awakening this serpent is claimed to bring great powers and benefits.

Gurdjieff's view on the matter differs from most sources. He agrees that such a thing exists but teaches that it is the source of false imaginings, an actual bane of man, the remnant of the ill-famed 'organ kundabuffer' which is discussed extensively in Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson. Kundalini is in effect the spell by which the 'evil magician' has hypnotized man to believe himself to be a magician while in truth he remains a sheep. Awakening the kundalini causes man to go live deeper in illusion and is ruinous to the Work, says Gurdjieff.

The kundalini is often compared to a serpent, maybe because of the undulating sensation that can be felt along the spine when doing certain exercises. Mouravieff writes that this is what the serpent of Genesis actually represents.

See Evil Magician.
 
I am just beginning to read Gurdjieff's writings, this explanation of kundalini is intriging; yet kundalini as described by many others seems not just benificial- it is the key which unlocks the door to liberation.In the center of the closed doors of liberation hangs a curious lock which cannot be opened without a key. And that key is not available to just anyone. That key is kundalinī. This serpent kundalinī is coiled up asleep blocking the path of the suśumna (median nerve passage) in the mūlādhāra padma, (lotus at the base of the spinal column.) Hence, no one is able to traverse that path. Worldly beings with its dormant state indulge in mundane pleasures and as result they remain in bondage. The sanyāsīns (renunciates) with awakened state practice yoga and as a consequence they obtain mukti (liberation).
It is a rare yogī who can arouse the kundalinī. Aspirants of some siddhis, unable to arouse it, simply bow and turn away from it. There will be thousands of persons who claim that they know kundalinī and that their kundalinī is awakened, but not one among them has ever known what kundalinī is. Only the one who knows kundalinī knows yoga.
 
Hi Fred,
Welcome to the forum. We suggest that new members post a brief introduction about themselves in the newbies board . You can take a look at other threads in that board to see how others have done it.

There are multiple theories about Kundalini and it is very difficult to know anything for certain about it in a practically usable way. We take a different approach in this forum since none of us here are renunciate yogis having tons of time to practice arcane disciplines. Along with Gurdjieff's works, we also focus on aspects of cognitive science and psychology as well as certain meditation practice (called Eiriu Eolas or EE in short) and diet. When you post an introduction in the newbies board, you will get an official welcome message which will have links to more information on these topics.
 
Clear yogi description of kundalini. But Kundalini force is mentioned everywhere. Cadeceus staff from egypt for example. Kundalini do not come from spine base. It has to embed soul esence energy there before flourishing. And embeding process od soul in base is not so simple.
 
seiw83 said:
Clear yogi description of kundalini. But Kundalini force is mentioned everywhere. Cadeceus staff from egypt for example. Kundalini do not come from spine base. It has to embed soul esence energy there before flourishing. And embeding process od soul in base is not so simple.

It certainly is mentioned in many places, but from the Gurdjieff quote and the content in the cassiopaea glossary, I perceive "a sensuous, hypnotic, twining-intertwining rhythmic force that's not so helpful to the Work." Seems like a force like that can indeed be strong enough to keep people sleeping during a time when being more awake might help save their life, OSIT.
 
The staff of caduceus/mercury may also be comet symbolism at its origin, and only later some fluffly "esoteric" explanation given out of someone's imagination.
 

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