Kundalini
- Thread starter Pierre
- Start date
Prometeo said:
Which article?
How do you think - do all exercises connected with sexual energy lead to deeper indulging in illusion? How about Qigong? I think they emerge from body and in consequence are "matter focused". I have a guess that the most appropriate approach on the 4th way is to simply do nothing with controlling body energies. Do you think it is a good approach?
obyvatel
The Living Force
Lidia V. said:
Hi Lidia V,
The 4th Way aims at balanced development of the body, intellect and emotions. The body is the physical vehicle which houses consciousness and needs to be cared for appropriately so it can serve the needs of consciousness. So in 4th Way, one adopts a balanced approach towards the body and its associated energies taking care not to fall into the extremes of becoming overly fascinated by physiological phenomena and practices that induce special sensations on the one hand and neglecting the body and focusing on the non-physical aspects of existence on the other. At least that is my understanding of the 4th Way.
An example of how this is achieved can be found in records of Gurdjieff's writings and practices where he laid a lot of importance on physical postures including exercises on movements or sacred dances.
Hi Obyvatel,
I asked this question because I heard about practising some kind of sexual Qigong exercises and something called Right hand tantra sex and wondered if it makes sense to deal deeper with this energy. I have read only excerpts from Gurdzijew so far, so thanks for pointing this out, that he proposed practical working with the body as well. As I understood from your post - it is advisable not to focus so much on sexual side, but on other aspects too, with the same attention for all of them. I found this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dAmvpJU1w Do you have practice in dancing this way? Or maybe you could suggest any other links with body exercises?
I wonder if body exercises, gestures or dance can balance sexual overcharge, which came to the surface ater my practising of EE (1,5 year) and a diet (about 6 months) Maybe it just needs time.
Thanks.
I asked this question because I heard about practising some kind of sexual Qigong exercises and something called Right hand tantra sex and wondered if it makes sense to deal deeper with this energy. I have read only excerpts from Gurdzijew so far, so thanks for pointing this out, that he proposed practical working with the body as well. As I understood from your post - it is advisable not to focus so much on sexual side, but on other aspects too, with the same attention for all of them. I found this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dAmvpJU1w Do you have practice in dancing this way? Or maybe you could suggest any other links with body exercises?
I wonder if body exercises, gestures or dance can balance sexual overcharge, which came to the surface ater my practising of EE (1,5 year) and a diet (about 6 months) Maybe it just needs time.
Thanks.
obyvatel
The Living Force
Lidia V. said:
That depends on your aim. Such practices do not match with the aim of this forum.
[quote author=Lidia V]
I have read only excerpts from Gurdzijew so far, so thanks for pointing this out, that he proposed practical working with the body as well. As I understood from your post - it is advisable not to focus so much on sexual side, but on other aspects too, with the same attention for all of them.
[/quote]
That is not what I wrote - there was no mention of sexual aspect in my post.
[quote author=Lidia V]
I found this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dAmvpJU1w Do you have practice in dancing this way?
[/quote]
I have no experience with Gurdjieff dances.
[quote author=Lidia V]
Or maybe you could suggest any other links with body exercises?
[/quote]
Maybe some mindful physical exercise- something that burns energy, focuses the mind on postures and movements and increases body awareness in general. Martial arts can be one possible option.
Thor
Jedi Council Member
Lidia V. said:
Hi Lidia V.,
A couple of months ago I decided to try a tantric based energy exercise aimed at separating ejaculation and orgasm. The exercise was very simple: a deep breathing technique, a mantra-like sound and very gentle touches at the perineum (physical access point for Muladhara chakra). It turned out to be a very bad idea.
I strongly recommend against trying such techniques. The protocol was to do it for 20 minutes no more than every second day. I'd done it about five times over 10 days and one day I decided to do a second session on the same day but without the breathing and the mantra so as to not be in breach of the protocol. After about 20 minutes I had to go to the bathroom but when I got up I was more dizzy that I'd ever been before. It was like being the most drunk I'd ever been and then going into some crazy roller coster going backwards for 30 minutes and I'm not kidding. I crawled back into bed and thought I'd wait it out. When nothing had changed after four hours I had to call my mother and ask her to come over at 2:30 am as I was afraid that I was going to pass out and I feared that if I lost consciousness I wasn't sure I was ever going to wake up again. It sound dramatic but I was literally afraid for my life.
For two days I couldn't walk. I could crawl from my bed to the bathroom but whenever I got out of bed I would become so nauseous that I'd vomit in a bucket next to my bed. After about a week I was able to walk but I was still walking like someone who's quite drunk, walking into walls, not being able to find my balance. Furthermore, my head was very fuzzy and filled with brain fog. It took about a month for me to be able to walk more or less normally, but even now, more than two months later, my balance is still impaired.
The first couple of nights I'd wake up in the middle of the night with a burning sensation starting at the base of the spine working its way up. I had the feeling that if it reached the top of my head something bad would happen so I forced myself not to sleep for half an hour when I experienced this as I could control it somewhat while awake. Luckily, this stopped after some days.
I called my yogi in India and somewhat embarrassedly told him the situation and asked his advice. He said that there are old tantric or yogic methods that are only supposed to be given between a teacher and a student, where the teacher has intimate knowledge of the students psychological and spiritual development. However many people take these methods out of context and repackage them and sell them to hungry westerners, looking for a "quick fix" that will give them any out-of-the-ordinary experience. He strongly advised against using any such methods. This included any tantric methods taught in the west as they're taken out of context.
It's been more than two months now and I'm still recovering from my "adventure". My balance is still a bit off and I can only do very little and very gentle yoga. Otherwise the dizziness comes back.
Yoga and Qigong can be very beneficial but IMHO it's very important to be very specific when choosing a teacher. In the west, most people think of yoga as only the physical postures which only constitutes one of the eight branches of yoga and most yoga teacher only focus on the asanas (postures), which to me show that they're not teaching yoga but just "eastern inspired gymnastics" :).
Thor
Jedi Council Member
One thing I forgot to mention in the last post.
While this was indeed an uncomfortable and frightening experience I consider it a very valuable lesson. I have always been curios to try different methods and techniques. I have now come to the conclusion that I'll stick to the path that I'm on and not experiment unless I have a very trustworthy recommendation. For me that could either come from my yogi or this network. As I see it, you keep getting the lessons served to you until you learn it. It's taken me quite a while to get it but now I hope that I have.
While this was indeed an uncomfortable and frightening experience I consider it a very valuable lesson. I have always been curios to try different methods and techniques. I have now come to the conclusion that I'll stick to the path that I'm on and not experiment unless I have a very trustworthy recommendation. For me that could either come from my yogi or this network. As I see it, you keep getting the lessons served to you until you learn it. It's taken me quite a while to get it but now I hope that I have.
Thor,
Thanks for sharing this experience. You had luck …
I have one question. You mentioned:
“ I decided to do a second session on the same day but without the breathing and the mantra so as to not be in breach of the protocol. “
Why did you decide to do this? What was the reason?
I’d like to add something - before reading this topic and meaning of Kundalini in Cassiopaea Glossary, I thought that some exercises with sexual energy might have some positive influence since we all still have bodies. However, such practices have never been of my special interest, I have never been convinced enough to start anything connected with Qi or Kundalini. I have realized recently, mostly after reading this thread, that focusing on sex, I mean: exercises (probably except Kegel exercises before delivery), is focusing on STS energy which feeds Lizards, so the best way to avoid “being eaten” is to be abstemious.
C’s advised that celibacy is desirable in advancing to 5th density.
Q: (L) Of all the modes of sexual expression, which one is
more likely to advance one to 4th density more rapidly?
A: Total celibacy.
Q: (D) Well then I'm okay! [laughter] (V) Can you explain why
total celibacy?
A: Because you are then "letting go" of the cravings for
physicality.
Excerpt from the thread “Sex” :
"Gurdjieff said in "Fragments of an unknown teaching" something like working on the sex center is one of the last steps. If you stop physically having sex but mentally still desire it, you will have thoughts about sex all the time and your sexual energy will be wasted mechanically by the intellectual or even the emotional center if this results in negative emotions.
Even if you control your thoughts about sex, this repressed energy will dye all your actions making you anxious, violent, and so on. So seems like one needs a lot of work before properly controlling sexual energy."
I read something about tantra and it stroke me that people who pracitise this – may have sex for hours. I could not understand what for is to have sex for hours. It is for pleasure so it is like taking ecstasy which is a drug. Rare taking is perhaps OK, but having pleasure for hours, every day seemed suspicious. Redirecting sexual energy to organs was also suspicious for me. It looked like an artificial way of energizing a body. A body, physicality. However, repressing energy is also no good…I think that in case of abundance of overworking intellectual or emotional center fed by repressed sexual energy, it as advisable to pay better attention to childhood because craving for sex, concentrating on its energy is actually looking for pleasure. I have learnt that having sex in every case is probably always in order to give oneself pleasure. We may think that giving pleasure with sex is giving love but it causes in general also our pleasure so ultimately it is STS. (If you think that correction is needed here - please justify). If we stop looking for pleasure the need for sex should diminish naturally. That’s difficult because it is like addiction, inserted in us to program us. I can say from my own experience that people who did not achieve enough love in childhood are prone to look for pleasure most of the time. Maybe that is not exploratory but it became clear for me.
I think that when a basic problem in person is explored, understood and accepted, [I mean: the root problem], the black hole in a body or soul, which want to suck all things giving pleasure: sex, sweets ( causing overweight) drugs (which are artificial way to give pleasure, maybe except some psychedelic) alcohol – just evaporates.
The thing I want to emphasize here is that a desire for pleasure has always a second level which is connected with bad memories from childhood. Realizing this is difficult because our conscious explanations may be very vague and of manipulative nature, just like explanations of an alkoholic. It is very important why person needs Kundalini, what is the primary reason, than work on this to solve the main problem.
That’s why I asked why you had 2 sessions in one day.
I also found this here :
"Each individual must follow the pathway chosen for growth and development. In order to accelerate the process, or change the process, karmic influences must be understood. To try to overcome tendencies to this or that behavior without understanding the causes will create greater frustration and can be very detrimental."
Source: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,686.0.html Please note that Laura mentioned that the author who channeled Lama Sing, is in general ambiguous but here in this text he is less.
Thanks for sharing this experience. You had luck …
I have one question. You mentioned:
“ I decided to do a second session on the same day but without the breathing and the mantra so as to not be in breach of the protocol. “
Why did you decide to do this? What was the reason?
I’d like to add something - before reading this topic and meaning of Kundalini in Cassiopaea Glossary, I thought that some exercises with sexual energy might have some positive influence since we all still have bodies. However, such practices have never been of my special interest, I have never been convinced enough to start anything connected with Qi or Kundalini. I have realized recently, mostly after reading this thread, that focusing on sex, I mean: exercises (probably except Kegel exercises before delivery), is focusing on STS energy which feeds Lizards, so the best way to avoid “being eaten” is to be abstemious.
C’s advised that celibacy is desirable in advancing to 5th density.
Q: (L) Of all the modes of sexual expression, which one is
more likely to advance one to 4th density more rapidly?
A: Total celibacy.
Q: (D) Well then I'm okay! [laughter] (V) Can you explain why
total celibacy?
A: Because you are then "letting go" of the cravings for
physicality.
Excerpt from the thread “Sex” :
"Gurdjieff said in "Fragments of an unknown teaching" something like working on the sex center is one of the last steps. If you stop physically having sex but mentally still desire it, you will have thoughts about sex all the time and your sexual energy will be wasted mechanically by the intellectual or even the emotional center if this results in negative emotions.
Even if you control your thoughts about sex, this repressed energy will dye all your actions making you anxious, violent, and so on. So seems like one needs a lot of work before properly controlling sexual energy."
I read something about tantra and it stroke me that people who pracitise this – may have sex for hours. I could not understand what for is to have sex for hours. It is for pleasure so it is like taking ecstasy which is a drug. Rare taking is perhaps OK, but having pleasure for hours, every day seemed suspicious. Redirecting sexual energy to organs was also suspicious for me. It looked like an artificial way of energizing a body. A body, physicality. However, repressing energy is also no good…I think that in case of abundance of overworking intellectual or emotional center fed by repressed sexual energy, it as advisable to pay better attention to childhood because craving for sex, concentrating on its energy is actually looking for pleasure. I have learnt that having sex in every case is probably always in order to give oneself pleasure. We may think that giving pleasure with sex is giving love but it causes in general also our pleasure so ultimately it is STS. (If you think that correction is needed here - please justify). If we stop looking for pleasure the need for sex should diminish naturally. That’s difficult because it is like addiction, inserted in us to program us. I can say from my own experience that people who did not achieve enough love in childhood are prone to look for pleasure most of the time. Maybe that is not exploratory but it became clear for me.
I think that when a basic problem in person is explored, understood and accepted, [I mean: the root problem], the black hole in a body or soul, which want to suck all things giving pleasure: sex, sweets ( causing overweight) drugs (which are artificial way to give pleasure, maybe except some psychedelic) alcohol – just evaporates.
The thing I want to emphasize here is that a desire for pleasure has always a second level which is connected with bad memories from childhood. Realizing this is difficult because our conscious explanations may be very vague and of manipulative nature, just like explanations of an alkoholic. It is very important why person needs Kundalini, what is the primary reason, than work on this to solve the main problem.
That’s why I asked why you had 2 sessions in one day.
I also found this here :
"Each individual must follow the pathway chosen for growth and development. In order to accelerate the process, or change the process, karmic influences must be understood. To try to overcome tendencies to this or that behavior without understanding the causes will create greater frustration and can be very detrimental."
Source: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,686.0.html Please note that Laura mentioned that the author who channeled Lama Sing, is in general ambiguous but here in this text he is less.
Thor
Jedi Council Member
Lidia V. said:
Lidia V.,
The motivation for doing the exercise in the first place was to separate orgasm and ejaculation and prolong the enjoyment of sexual energy. For many years I have looked to various practices and methods to achieve things of this sort (without much success :)) and after this experience I can recognise the hook that was in me for what it is. As I see it, I have a fundamental lack of self worth in some areas and sexuality is one of these areas. Therefore the subconscious motivation was that if I just become better at (performing and) connecting sexually, then whoever I'm with will connect to me more deeply and therefore love me more deeply. This is supposed to make up for the lack of self love and feeling of self worth. I now realise that such a strategy is not going to solve the underlying problem...
Furthermore, there is the pleasure and sexual energy side to it. I have an addictive trait in my personality and when I was younger did a reasonable amount of drugs and had a marijuana addiction for a number of years. Therefore, there is also the element of addiction to pleasure. When you start the protocol you do the mantra, the breathing exercise and the light touches. Whenever a touch results in the slightest sense of arousal you stop, do the sound and the breathing for 20 seconds before repeating. What happens is, like Pavlov's dogs, that you become conditioned to associate the sound with waves of arousal in your body and as time goes on, each time you do the sound, you boost the feeling of arousal. And since you don't ejaculate the sexual energy that is created is contained within the body. My experience was that I'd have a lot of mini-arousals and mini-orgasms during the day while just going around my daily routines - it was as if the mind was more tuned into being aware of sexual energy.
Now, to answer your question of why I decided to do a second session on the same day. The answer is addiction to the pleasureable orgasmic-like energies that resulted from the very light and gentle stimulation of the perineum. And since there was a lot of sexual energy in my body I wanted more.
Perceval said:
Perceval,
Technically speaking yes. But it was also focusing on the feeling of arousal that the touches created, so it's not just like touching the perineum, while reading the paper :). Before doing the exercise I felt completely normal but with a lot of energy in my body. As for the reaction, I think it has to be taken in context of the program and what I've described above.
Also, I've been thinking if the reason for the very strong reaction could have to do with the fact that I live a very clean life, compared to most people. I've done a lot of cleansing over the last seven years, have a very strict diet with no stimulants or intoxicants, do yoga, meditation and breathing every day and spend a lot of time on my Work. I'm not sure how much of factor that is, but it would make sense, OSIT.