"Life Without Bread"

Mariama said:
Firefly said:
I am just not sure how to "pull the plug", especially since he is being fed at school breakfast and lunch. I can send him to school with his own lunch box, but not sure how strict his teachers would be when he would ask for a glass of milk or when he does not get his crackers for a snack.

Hi Firefly,
I am not an expert, far from it, but wouldn't it help, if you explained to the teachers what the effect of dairy and gluten does to your child? Do they wish to have a student that is hyperactive and finds it hard to concentrate? I bet they don't. So ask them to cooperate.
Did you read Mark Hyman's The UltraMind Solution? You could use his examples of young kids that changed their diet and how it impacted their life and work in school!

Thank you for your reply, Mariama! yes, I have read The UltraMind Solution and have been practicing the diet for quite sometime myself. I think my concern goes beyond just the teachers. I can talk to them and make sure they enforce the diet. I can drop the word "allergic" - they are very sensitive to kids' allergies. But in our society, food is viewed as a reward ("you'll get a treat if you are good", Halloween candy, etc.) or part of any celebration. Every kids' birthday party we go to, there is pizza and cake. While I am an adult and have an understanding and self-control, I am not sure how a 4 year-old would handle those situations without feeling like an outcast.
 
Firefly said:
. While I am an adult and have an understanding and self-control, I am not sure how a 4 year-old would handle those situations without feeling like an outcast.
It's important to try to not project how you would feel onto your child. You don't know that he'd feel like an outcast. If you provided healthy alternatives to him at these parties, he'd probably be just fine. Like instead of ice cream, he gets his own coconut milk version or gluten free cupcake (these things aren't super healthy, but they're better than what is offered at parties). Often, if you act like it's normal, he'll think it's normal. Better to start at 4 then try to repair damage already done at 10.
 
anart said:
Firefly said:
. While I am an adult and have an understanding and self-control, I am not sure how a 4 year-old would handle those situations without feeling like an outcast.
It's important to try to not project how you would feel onto your child. You don't know that he'd feel like an outcast. If you provided healthy alternatives to him at these parties, he'd probably be just fine. Like instead of ice cream, he gets his own coconut milk version or gluten free cupcake (these things aren't super healthy, but they're better than what is offered at parties). Often, if you act like it's normal, he'll think it's normal. Better to start at 4 then try to repair damage already done at 10.

I agree, it is better to start early. With my son, there is not need to project - he is quite outspoken ;D. His exact words are "Mom, I don't want your milk (almond milk), it's not that special and it's yucky! I want the kind of milk everyone has at school (whole milk)". At this point, I am happy for the small victories - he does not drink juice or soda and thinks that fast food is yucky. And he actually loves buckwheat. I think my problem with changing my son's diet completely is mostly me, not my son. I am too scared of being a "mean" mom when he gets upset when I make buckwheat pankackes instead of regular ones with maple syrup and refuses to eat.
 
Laura said:
Why cooking counts - Study finds an increase in energy from meat, suggesting key role in evolution
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/11/why-cooking-counts/?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=11_09_111&utm_content

More info from an article by the same authors, Rachel N. Carmody and Richard W. Wrangham. The quote below addresses - although very briefly - the possible effects of cooking fat (http://www.anthro.utah.edu/PDFs/CarmodyWrangham09cookingHumEv.pdf):


Energetic effects of cooking animal foods

Meat is an important item in human evolution, but few studies
have addressed the potential energetic effects of cooking meat; and
in general, the literature on the nutritional consequences of cooking
animal protein is diffuse and inconsistent. Animal foods consist
largely of protein and fat, with a small amount of ash. Protein
represents approximately 70% of muscle tissue by dry matter mass,
with relatively higher importance for lean wild meats (USDA,
2008). Fat is of lesser importance by mass, representing approximately
25% of muscle tissue and approximately 90% of marrow in
meats sold in the USA (USDA, 2008), but its energy value is
disproportionately great owing to the high gross caloric value of
lipids (9 kcal/g) compared to protein (4 kcal/g; Merrill and Watt,
1973).

Cooking by dry heat methods, such as roasting, results in fat loss
due to dripping (Bender, 1992). Table 4 summarises fat losses for
seven common meats, as reported in the USDA Nutrient Database
for Standard Reference (2008), along with their implied reduction
in gross caloric value per gramof dry matter compared to rawmeat.
Reductions in gross caloric value due to cooking were calculated by
comparing the reported protein, lipid, carbohydrate, and ash
contents of raw and cooked samples and multiplying these by the
caloric conversion factors of 4, 9, 4, and 0 kcal/g, respectively
(Merrill and Watt, 1973). As Table 4 demonstrates, the extent of fat
loss can be considerable both in terms of mass and gross caloric
value. Based on these data alone, cooking would appear to have
negative consequences for the energy value of meat. However, it is
not currently known whether the negative effects of cooking on the
gross caloric value of meat due to fat loss are outweighed by
potential positive effects of cooking on the net energy values of the
residual fat and protein (e.g., due to increased intake, increased
digestibility, reduced cost of digestion, and/or lower basal metabolic
expenditure).

As Table 1 shows, there are various mechanisms by which
cooking has been argued to have positive, neutral, or negative
effects on the net energy value of meat. Given this diversity of
possible effects, the question relevant to human evolutionary
biology is whether there is a consistent net consequence. The
simplest way to find out would be to obtain data on people eating
meat-rich diets that differ by whether their meat is raw or cooked.
However, no such studies have been reported for humans. Even
animal data are lacking. It has been claimed that many experiments
show that rats ‘‘thrive better on cooked than on raw meat’’
(Anonymous, 1931), but we have not yet found proof of such
research.

Here, therefore, we review evidence for the impacts of cooking
meat on four contributory factors to net energy: food intake,
digestibility, the metabolic cost of digestion, and basal metabolic
rate. We focus mainly on the effects of cooking on whole meat or
animal protein rather than animal fat. The purpose is not to suggest
possible (Stefansson, 1960; Hayden, 1981; Speth and
Spielmann, 1983; Defleur et al., 1999). Archaeological evidence
suggests that fat derived from bone marrow may have been
preferred over muscle tissue as a source of energy and nutrients
among early Homo (Blumenschine, 1991; Blumenschine and
Madrigal, 1993). Moreover, it is known that diets deriving more
than 50% of calories from lean protein can lead to negative energy
balance, so-called ‘‘rabbit starvation,’’ due to the high metabolic
costs of protein digestion (Speth and Spielmann, 1983; Noli and
Avery, 1988), as well as a physiological maximum capacity of the
liver for urea synthesis (Speth, 1989; Cordain et al., 2000). Rather,
we focus on whole meat or animal protein because virtually no
research to date has addressed the impact of cooking on the energy
value of fat. In the nutritional literature, the energy values of
different lipids are viewed interchangeably, with discussion
focusing instead on fatty acids and their implications for food
texture, preservation, and health. Nevertheless, we can envisage
two ways in which cooking might positively alter the energy value
of fat. First, to the extent that cooking heats fat to body temperature
or above, less energy will be expended by the body in doing so.
Second, the liquefaction of solid fats into oils may increase the
surface area of lipid globules exposed to amphipathic (i.e., having
both hydrophilic and hydrophobic domains) bile acids in the small
intestine, thus promoting faster emulsification and ultimately
faster absorption
. These hypotheses remain to be tested.
 
Miss.K said:
Mrs. Peel said:
Funny, I just called the dermatologist today to make an appointment, I've had this itchy rash on my forehead only, for ages now. It gets better and worse, and the last couple weeks have been worse. I've used DMSO on it, take betaine hydrochloric acid, digestive enzymes, magnesium, Vit C, Omega 3s and krill oil, Vit D, milk thistle, boswellia, etc. In the summer, I first thought it was poison ivy.

The dermatologist can't see me till December 12, geeze. :scared: It's probably digestive related though.

I have used coconut oil as face cream lately, and the rash on my forehead has disappeared. It might be unrelated, just thought I'd mention it :)

I've been using organic argan oil on my face before bed, except for the foreheat where the rash it. It looks too greasy to put on in the morning before going to work. :lol:

My rash itches at times, and isn't just on the hairline. I'm sure it's from candida and/or leaky gut. When I look back on my life, there were periods I was taking strong NSAIDS for prolonged periods of time, I've had at least four shots of cortisone in various limbs, spent years going to bars and consuming great quantities of alcohol, spents months on anti-depressants, and was a sugar-aholic since I was a small child. Plus, when I look back, I don't think there was ever a time in my life where I wasn't majorly stressed out about something. This poor horse of a body has been flogged quite enough. :lol:
 
Firefly said:
I agree, it is better to start early. With my son, there is not need to project - he is quite outspoken ;D. His exact words are "Mom, I don't want your milk (almond milk), it's not that special and it's yucky! I want the kind of milk everyone has at school (whole milk)".

Maybe your son is right! I was told that almond milk isn't really as healthy as we're told it is. I used to drink it too. I don't know if all of the phytates found in nuts would be found in almond milk, but I think that could be a problem. I also haven't been able to find a lot of objective information on almond milk but the ingredient labels I've been able to find show that carrageenan is found in it, and carrageenan may be a carcinogen:


The researcher who made the connection between carrageenan and cancer, Joanne Tobacman, an assistant professor of clinical internal medicine at the University of Iowa College of Medicine, noted that as long ago as 1972 the FDA determined that there was enough evidence from animal studies to limit the type of carrageenan that could be used in foods. However, in 1979, the FDA rescinded its proposed limitation and since then, no action has been taken.
From: _http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA44833

What a surprise, huh? FWIW
 
Firefly said:
I am just not sure how to "pull the plug", especially since he is being fed at school breakfast and lunch. I can send him to school with his own lunch box, but not sure how strict his teachers would be when he would ask for a glass of milk or when he does not get his crackers for a snack.

Firefly, your son is young enough that you could just tell him in a voice of caring authority, this is how it's going to be for now on, period. Talk to the teachers too, explain about "allergies" -- again, you don't have to come up with a reasoning, just notify them. People are sensitive to this now; teachers especially think severe peanut allergies right away, nobody wants a kid to drop on their watch, so they are, in my experience, very cooperative with this. I purchase healthier snacks and keep them in a classroom, so that, if there is someone's birthday, the teacher knows to give my child the alternative treat. HOpe this works out!
 
Firefly said:
Thank you for your reply, Mariama! yes, I have read The UltraMind Solution and have been practicing the diet for quite sometime myself. I think my concern goes beyond just the teachers. I can talk to them and make sure they enforce the diet. I can drop the word "allergic" - they are very sensitive to kids' allergies. But in our society, food is viewed as a reward ("you'll get a treat if you are good", Halloween candy, etc.) or part of any celebration. Every kids' birthday party we go to, there is pizza and cake. While I am an adult and have an understanding and self-control, I am not sure how a 4 year-old would handle those situations without feeling like an outcast.

How do parents cope with such problems when their children have allergies that can kill them, such as the pea or peanut allergy? Well, people don't die immediately from the Standard American Diet (SAD), but it kills many of them nonetheless. And usually, before they die, they spend years suffering...

So maybe that's how you ought to look at it?

We've found that the easiest way to deal with it is to just say that there is a serious allergy, implying that it could be life-threatening (and since we have celiac diagnoses in close relatives, that's not a stretch), and its amazing how understanding people can be. If you need a little extra emphasis, remind them of kids with peanut allergies that have died within minutes after consuming stuff that was just exposed to peanut dust!



Firefly said:
I agree, it is better to start early. With my son, there is not need to project - he is quite outspoken ;D. His exact words are "Mom, I don't want your milk (almond milk), it's not that special and it's yucky! I want the kind of milk everyone has at school (whole milk)". At this point, I am happy for the small victories - he does not drink juice or soda and thinks that fast food is yucky. And he actually loves buckwheat. I think my problem with changing my son's diet completely is mostly me, not my son. I am too scared of being a "mean" mom when he gets upset when I make buckwheat pankackes instead of regular ones with maple syrup and refuses to eat.

You may wish to read George Simon's book "Character Disturbance" where he cites a case where a mother was "too scared of being mean" and how it affected her son's life.

You know, the one thing that really separates us from monkeys is our ability to share complex experiences and learning via words AND to understand cause and effect in time AND to delay gratification now for a better outcome in the future.
 
I thought maybe I would share our experience with our 5-year-old daughter and her diet at school. This is by no means an example, just our experience.
Since kindergarten, we told the teachers that she had dairy and gluten intolerances. We said 'intolerances' instead of allergies because when they are that young, they sometimes eat each other's snacks and we thought that if the teacher saw that our daughter did not have any apparent problem should she eat gluten/dairy by mistake, they would maybe not take this seriously. We said that all in all, she could tolerate a small amount but that we prefer not to take any chances since going over that amount can prove very problematic for her health. They are usually scared of anything 'problematic' and s.o. attacking the school, so they never gave her anything.

She just entered the first year of primary school (American equivalent of first grade, I think) and we stuck to that explanation for her new teacher. They impose the snacks (Monday is dairy, Tuesday is cereals, Wednesday is fruit, etc.) so I said that she will not be able to follow this. They understood. Other parents are not happy with them imposing snacks like this but they don't dare saying anything!

At lunch, she will typically eat leftovers (meatballs, sausage), ham, cucumber slices (she loves them and never fails to remind us to buy her some), bits of carrots. She is rather skinny and wiry (always has been) and so we also give her sometimes buckwheat crackers with a thick layer of butter with ham, etc.

When there is a birthday (at school or when she's invited to one), she knows she cannot have any cake. Sometimes she's frustrated (when it's during weekends, we usually give her an OK snack beforehand), sometimes she doesn't care because she is too busy playing. It is not that rare that parents opted for a gluten-free cake, as it happens, because more and more kids have that 'problem'.

As far as interactions with and questions from other kids are concerned, this is apparently not a problem for her. She is the youngest in her class (she skipped a year), so she is 5 and others are 6, 6 1/2. That is a big difference (in size, understanding, 'bullying') and still, she is determined not to be made fun of or bullied for what she eats. She received some commentaries at the beginning of the year and apparently, she answered:" Yeah, if I eat dairy and gluten, I get sick, so what??? Anyway, you probably should not eat any either, or you're going to follow suit!!" We told her to stick to the explanation of her getting sick next time and leave others to eat what they want. :lol:

So, I really think that when kids see this as normal behaviour at home, from their parents, this is just natural for them.
 
One goodie that kids can take with them and eat is meringues sweetened with xylitol. Chocolate ones are nice, too. Just beat the egg whites until stiff, add xylitol and beat it in, add cocoa powder if you want chocolate ones, a bit of vanilla. Spoon onto a baking sheet covered with baking paper. Put in a hot oven, turn the oven off, and leave them there overnight.

You could also make them with ground nuts folded in, or grated coconut. That way, your child has a terrific goodie that is not harmful in any way, and looks yummy. Other kids will want them too!

Recently, I made cookies for Ark using ground cashews and coconut as the flour, meringue as the binder/fluffer. They were outrageously good.
 
Pashalis said:
Hmm I get hungry from this description , I wish I had someone who makes me some too :D

You can always search the internet for examples so you can make it yourself. :) Here's one: http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Authentic-French-Meringues/Detail.aspx?src=rss (of course, you'd substitute the sugar in this recipe).
 
Pashalis said:
Hmm I get hungry from this description , I wish I had someone who makes me some too :D

LOL! When he says he needs cookies to finish his equations, we get to work!
 
Laura said:
Pashalis said:
Hmm I get hungry from this description , I wish I had someone who makes me some too :D

LOL! When he says he needs cookies to finish his equations, we get to work!

:lol: :lol: I can just picture this whole scenario and it really has "high mirth value." And then I imagine Ark getting a whole lot of work done on his equations happily eating delicious and healthy cookies. :)
 
Thanks for the ideas, Laura. I make meringues once in a while, but I had not thought of adding cocoa powder.
What we do make regularly are wafels made with eggs, coconut milk, almond flour, xylitol and vanilla. They are very good and you're quickly full with them! I also tried Gedgaudas' chocolate dessert recipe in Primal body, Primal mind (at the very end of the book) and it is very rich and satisfying while being packed with fats.
Yesterday, as we were discussing all this with Tigersoap, I told him I should try a chocolate mousse soon, his face lit up and all he could say was: 'When? When?' :lol: So I think that's going to be on the menu soon as well..

Thanks!
 
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