"Life Without Bread"

Just wanted to let you know that my children stopped drinking fruit juice. Thanks for the information surrounding these evil drinks.
That is step one. I am now thinking of how and when to take step two. My eldest doesn't like fat and craves chocolate, so I have to make a plan.

I am off gluten and diary myself and some days I do not eat any carbs. It is easier than I thought, craving wise. I do have weird pains from time to time (in my sides and knee) and feel a bit different altogether. I feel light, not dizzy, but lighter. Maybe that is why I feel weird. I have a rash on my hands, but that is not out of the ordinary.
I had leg cramps, but they disappeared after rubbing some comfrey on my leg. I have started eating some sunflower seeds (still have loads of them in my cupboard) for potassium. Magnesium citrate and vitamine C will arrive shortly. I take fish oil and acetyl l-carnitine.

What I like about this diet is the fact that it makes my life so much easier. I eat some meat with some butter and then I am done!
One question: if I eat too few grammes of protein will that be a problem? I am a bit cautious maybe and try not to eat too much meat, fish or eggs.
 
Gertrudes said:
The fat is not organic though, it is the only thing I haven't yet managed to find organic. I found organic offal, even organic bones, but no fat. I called so many organic meat farms, none can arrange it for me. What on earth do they do with it??
Several weeks back, I approached my local organic butcher about buying pork fat, and he said that he did not have even enough to make sausages for sale that week from the meat at hand - too lean - and often had to buy extra fat in to make up his sausages, and so could not sell me any. I have another butcher that I use, well source meat not totally sure if it is organic, and I get the fat and skin left over after they have made sausages, which otherwise would be trashed.
 
Laura said:
Miss.K said:
I have not been taking supplements (due to poverty) except omega 3 when I remember to take them, so for my part it can't be supplement related.
I have just ordered supplements, as I got a bit of cash, and I thought the rash might come from lacking something ;)

I believe that the issue of rashes was discussed a little ways back in the thread and is thought to be related to systems coming back online with the changeover from carb metabolism to fat metabolism. I think it could also be related to some DNA reactivation due to the diet. Several of us here had a bit of this and it lasted in vary degrees for a few months, but eventually went away.

Thank you Laura :)
 
SeekinTruth said:
Megan said:
SeekinTruth said:
Yup, my thoughts exactly! Why else would it be so hard to find something so healthy -- organic pork fat? :lol:

Partly because some animals are being bred for less fat "for your protection".

Ahhh, yes, of course!! "For our protection!!" :curse:

One of the butchers I go to said that the meat comes to him with most of the fat removed nowadays (to make his job easier?) He says he gets asked to remove most of the remaining fat by most customers anyway. I could hardly believe it until I saw a lady request it of him one day- it was the tiniest of slivers and she asked him to remove it - I guess the paranoia that the little bit would "contaminate" her steak and clog her arteries :(

I also recently discovered an organic butchers here. They even cut the fat off the belly pork- I mean belly pork is supposed to be fatty! Fortunately they can save the fat for me. They also have "manteca" or "leaf lard" from Iberian acorn fed pigs. I've been adding it to my patties and even the smell of the raw meat as I'm preparing them takes me back to childhood. They taste delicious and are so satisfying that I've stopped needing lunch at work. I was thinking about it the other day as I was preparing my "belly pork patties" and remembering how meat smelled as a child (most animals would still have been grassfed in Ireland in the 80's). As my butcher told me recently, the fat gives the meat its taste (his customers ask him to remove the fat then complain to him about the lack of flavour - duh!) I started to realize how along with demonizing fat they've been adding flavour enhancers which disguise the lack of flavour of this new "meat" whilst simultaneously reducing the fat content. If they had just removed the fat, people would have complained- MSG to the rescue! - it reminded me of the "Boiling Frog" story:
The boiling frog story is a widespread anecdote describing a frog slowly being boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability of people to react to significant changes that occur gradually.[1] According to contemporary biologists the premise of the story is not literally true; a frog submerged and gradually heated will jump out.[2][3] However, some 19th century research experiments suggested that the underlying premise is true, provided the heating is gradual enough.[4][5]
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
I never really noticed it until I moved to Spain 8 years ago. Then I started to notice that the mince meat just didn't taste right at all- in fact if anything I would describe it as "mostly tasteless with a slightly disagreeable taste"! Since then I've discovered that it was because they were adding soy protein and taking away the fat. Since then I started having the meat minced at the butchers but even that meat is mostly without flavour - no fat! It reminded me of Orwell's description of food in 1984...
So it seems the PTB haven't got to all the good fat sources yet. I wonder how long it will take them! I'm betting the fat tax won't be long in getting here :evil:
 
Mariama said:
Just wanted to let you know that my children stopped drinking fruit juice. Thanks for the information surrounding these evil drinks.
That is step one. I am now thinking of how and when to take step two. My eldest doesn't like fat and craves chocolate, so I have to make a plan.

People usually have cravings because they aren't getting enough protein and especially fat. And even when they get them, they usually have leaky gut from gluten and casein and candida. But it's got to be hard to switch kids.

I was a dictator about food in my house when my kids were little. I just didn't buy junk and they didn't eat it. Only thing was, I didn't know the best things for them to be eating then, though they were eating everything fresh and prepared at home.

So, I dunno. Maybe you could get the kids to eat eggs and bacon or sausage in the mornings, with no carbs available for a starter and then start increasing their meat/fat at other meals and let nature take over? Just don't have potatoes or rice, have green beans or sweet potato or salad instead. No bread available and they'll eat more of what is there. You can say "sorry, ran out.. we can manage without this time" a few times maybe.

In short, just make sure they get plenty of fatty meats, some veggies, and minimal simple carbs at the beginning. And NO sweets at all unless it is xylitol sweetened chocolate. I just finished making a great chocolate mousse with just eggs, chocolate and xylitol.

Mariama said:
I am off gluten and diary myself and some days I do not eat any carbs. It is easier than I thought, craving wise.

It will take 6 months for the negative effects of gluten to be corrected in your body, so if you slip, you have to start the count all over. Even a little bit is a slip.

Mariama said:
I do have weird pains from time to time (in my sides and knee) and feel a bit different altogether. I feel light, not dizzy, but lighter. Maybe that is why I feel weird. I have a rash on my hands, but that is not out of the ordinary.
I had leg cramps, but they disappeared after rubbing some comfrey on my leg. I have started eating some sunflower seeds (still have loads of them in my cupboard) for potassium. Magnesium citrate and vitamine C will arrive shortly. I take fish oil and acetyl l-carnitine.

I do hope you have read the recommended books and are not doing all this just based on this thread! Also, there are some great paleo cookbooks on amazon.

Mariama said:
What I like about this diet is the fact that it makes my life so much easier. I eat some meat with some butter and then I am done!
One question: if I eat too few grammes of protein will that be a problem? I am a bit cautious maybe and try not to eat too much meat, fish or eggs.

Like I said, you need to read the recommended books, especially "Primal Body, Primal Mind". Don't put it off any longer.
 
Rabelaise
Question: Can the lard in which the bicarbonate of soda dressed bellies have been fried be reused - or does the bicarb render it useless? ('nother bad pun).

Sorry for the delay in answering--Yes, the lard can be re-used! Around here, the lard has been bacon fat saved.
I am looking forward to try the rendering of pork fat Gertrudes and you speak of.
 
Gimpy said:
He's been having flu like symptoms, but he knew those might happen. The symptom that I don't know the root of? He's getting very cold, icy hands and feet, cold face. When this happens he's home, and I can have him climb in bed and hug him to get him warm again.

Before I decided to undertake the making of Lugol's Iodine, I did a lot of reading. The cold hands, feet, etc. is a common symptom of iodine deficiency. You might want to explore that, but do not attempt to supplement with regular drug store iodine. It is alcohol based, and you will want a water based iodine, like Lugol's. Iodine deficiencies are the causal factor in a lot of misdiagnosed symptoms.

SolarMother said:
Sorry for the delay in answering--Yes, the lard can be re-used! Around here, the lard has been bacon fat saved.
I am looking forward to try the rendering of pork fat Gertrudes and you speak of.

Thanks. I was going to ask about your initial source of lard for rendering the belly fat. I have lots of saved bacon fat in the refrigerator. Good to go.
 
Laura said:
Mariama said:
Just wanted to let you know that my children stopped drinking fruit juice. Thanks for the information surrounding these evil drinks.
That is step one. I am now thinking of how and when to take step two. My eldest doesn't like fat and craves chocolate, so I have to make a plan.

People usually have cravings because they aren't getting enough protein and especially fat. And even when they get them, they usually have leaky gut from gluten and casein and candida. But it's got to be hard to switch kids.

I was a dictator about food in my house when my kids were little. I just didn't buy junk and they didn't eat it. Only thing was, I didn't know the best things for them to be eating then, though they were eating everything fresh and prepared at home.

So, I dunno. Maybe you could get the kids to eat eggs and bacon or sausage in the mornings, with no carbs available for a starter and then start increasing their meat/fat at other meals and let nature take over? Just don't have potatoes or rice, have green beans or sweet potato or salad instead. No bread available and they'll eat more of what is there. You can say "sorry, ran out.. we can manage without this time" a few times maybe.

In short, just make sure they get plenty of fatty meats, some veggies, and minimal simple carbs at the beginning. And NO sweets at all unless it is xylitol sweetened chocolate. I just finished making a great chocolate mousse with just eggs, chocolate and xylitol.

That is a splendid idea.
I will have to get rid of the flour that I bought in bulk and all the sugar that is left and the rice. I think I will just give it away to people that still wish to eat it.

I was a dictator off and on. These last few years I stopped buying lemonade, crisps, all that sweet processed stuff, but as my partner still eats processed cakes and what have you I slipped back into old habits and allowed them to eat that junk. I really had to make a conscious effort to put a stop to all that.

Off and on I watched what we ate, but we still had Chinese take-out and all.

Laura said:
I do hope you have read the recommended books and are not doing all this just based on this thread! Also, there are some great paleo cookbooks on amazon.

Remarkable! I finished PBPM the other day, but I forgot a lot straight away. The same goes for every book I have read so far. That is why I bought the acetyl l-carnitine. Nora mentions that it improves cognitive function.
I have poor memory. So I will dig up the important bits about fat and protein ratio and order a paleo cookbook. Wonderful.
Thanks, Laura.
 
I have a 4 year old and have to admit, that I made some errors in teaching him the right diet. For a longest time I was bought into the idea of "healthy" eating, promoting dairy intake, whole-wheat bread, brown rice, e.t.c. Needless to say, that transitioning him out of those foods are pretty difficult (as anyone with the kids can tell you, 4-year-olds are creatures of habit). I try to keep his diet close to mine with some minor adjustments - I try to feed him buckwheat kasha in the morning with some ghee, fish, pork, meet with some veggies, but he craves his yogurt and milk as well as some carbs. I feel that the diet I've been teaching him impacts his behavior negatively - he is very hyper, has hard time concentrating. Sounds like illuminating gluten and dairy could improve his behavior and his health dramatically. I am just not sure how to "pull the plug", especially since he is being fed at school breakfast and lunch. I can send him to school with his own lunch box, but not sure how strict his teachers would be when he would ask for a glass of milk or when he does not get his crackers for a snack.
 
Mariama said:
I was a dictator off and on. These last few years I stopped buying lemonade, crisps, all that sweet processed stuff, but as my partner still eats processed cakes and what have you I slipped back into old habits and allowed them to eat that junk. I really had to make a conscious effort to put a stop to all that.

That's got to stop. Your partner has to get onboard for the sake of the children. Children grow up to do what they see you do, not what you tell them. You have to BE the example; both of you.
 
Why cooking counts - Study finds an increase in energy from meat, suggesting key role in evolution
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/11/why-cooking-counts/?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=11_09_111&utm_content

Next time you’re out to dinner, you may want to think twice before ordering your steak rare.

In a first-of-its-kind study, Harvard researchers have shown that cooked meat provides more energy than raw meat, a finding that challenges the current food labeling system and suggests humans are evolutionarily adapted to take advantage of the benefits of cooking.

Led by Rachel Carmody, a Ph.D. candidate in the Department of Human Evolutionary Biology at Harvard’s Graduate School of Arts and Sciences, and published online ahead of print this week in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS Early Edition), the research bridges the fields of human evolution and modern human nutrition.

“Every day, humans in every global society devote time and energy to processing food — cooking it, grinding it, slicing it, pounding it — yet we don’t understand what effect these efforts have on the energy we extract from food, or the role they might have played in our evolution,” Carmody said. “It is astonishing, since energy gain is the primary reason we eat.”

Though earlier studies had examined how cooking affects specific aspects of the digestive process, surprisingly, Carmody said, none had examined whether cooking affected the overall energy value of meat. In addition, no study had compared the energetic effects of cooking with those of non-thermal processing methods like pounding, whether for meat or starch-rich foods.

“There had been no research that looked at the net effects — we had pieces that we could not integrate,” Carmody said. “We knew some of the mechanisms, but we didn’t know how they combined.”

To examine those effects, researchers designed a unique experiment. Over 40 days, they fed two groups of mice a series of diets that consisted of either meat or sweet potatoes prepared in four ways — raw and whole, raw and pounded, cooked and whole, and cooked and pounded.

Over the course of each diet, the researchers tracked changes in the body mass of the mice, controlling for how much they ate and ran on an exercise wheel. The results, Carmody said, clearly showed that cooked meat delivered more energy to the mice than raw meat. The same was true for sweet potatoes. In both foods, the energetic gains from cooking were greater than those from pounding, and cooking increased the energy gained from pre-pounded foods. Preference tests also revealed that hungry mice strongly preferred cooked foods, suggesting that the energetic benefits of a cooked diet were obvious to the subjects themselves.

It’s a finding, Carmody said, that holds exciting implications for our understanding of human evolution.

Though ancestral humans were eating meat as least 2.5 million years ago, without the ability to control fire, any meat in their diet was raw, though possibly pounded using primitive stone tools. Approximately 1.9 million years ago, however, a dramatic change began to occur. The bodies of early humans grew larger. Their brains increased in size and complexity. Adaptations for long-distance running appeared.

Earlier theories suggested these energetically costly changes were made possible by increased quantities of meat in the diet. However the results of the new research support another, albeit complementary, hypothesis — that cooking allowed humans to extract more energy from the foods they were already eating, both meat and widely available starch-rich tubers.

Richard Wrangham, the Ruth Moore Professor of Biological Anthropology and master of Currier House, proposed that idea years ago, but the new study provides the first hard evidence to support it.

“I’m a biologist by training,” Wrangham said. “If you want to understand the anatomical, physiological and behavioral features of a species, its diet is the first thing you ask about. If you want to know what makes a giraffe tick, it’s the fact that it eats leaves from the tops of trees. If you want to understand the shape of a flea, it’s because it eats blood. But with humans, our adaptations have in general been seen as being the result of our ability to use our brains. Because that approach focuses on problem-solving it strays from the fundamental biological concept of species being adapted to a particular type of diet, and lures us into thinking that we have no particular kind of dietary adaptation.

“That’s why Rachel’s work is so important,” he continued. “For the first time, we have a clear answer to why cooking is so important cross-culturally and biologically — because it gives us increased energy. Life is all about energy.”

However, the impacts of the study, which Carmody co-authored with Wrangham and Gil Weintraub, then a Harvard undergraduate and now a medical student at UCLA, aren’t limited to the early days of human evolution. The findings also lay bare some shortcomings in the Atwater system, the calorie-measurement tool used to produce modern food labels.

“The system is based on principles that don’t reflect actual energy availability,” Carmody said. “First, the human gastrointestinal tract includes a whole host of bacteria, and those bacteria metabolize some of our food for their own benefit. Atwater doesn’t discriminate between food that is digested by the human versus the bacteria. Second, it doesn’t account for the energy spent digesting food, which can be substantial. In both cases, processing increases the energy accrued to the human. Such evidence suggests that food labels do not properly account for the effects of food processing.”

In this way, the new research could help inform how food scientists tackle two of the thorniest of dietary challenges — the prevalence of obesity in Western nations, and malnutrition in developing parts of the world.

“As human evolutionary biologists, we think about energetic gain as being something positive — it allows for growth, maintenance and reproduction, and it is therefore a critical component of a species’ evolutionary fitness,” Carmody said. “But the question in the modern world is: If we now have the problem of excess as opposed to deficit, is that still a positive?

“This work illuminates that the tools we currently use to understand caloric intake, both in cases of malnutrition and cases of obesity, are suboptimal. They’ve been based on the assumption that the human body is a perfectly efficient digestion machine, when, in fact, it’s not — but we now see that its efficiency is affected by food processing, particularly cooking.”

The research was supported by the National Science Foundation, the Harvard Department of Human Evolutionary Biology, the Harvard Museum of Comparative Zoology, and the Stellenbosch Institute of Advanced Study.
 
Laura said:
Why cooking counts - Study finds an increase in energy from meat, suggesting key role in evolution
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/11/why-cooking-counts/?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=11_09_111&utm_content

The same might hold true for properly aged meats where the energy gain might come from less digestive stooch required.
 
Laura said:
Why cooking counts - Study finds an increase in energy from meat, suggesting key role in evolution
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/11/why-cooking-counts/?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=11_09_111&utm_content
...
Interesting. I posted material from Wrangham's book Catching Fire much earlier in this topic, including some details about the Atwater convention. It's important to remember that those nutritional labels don't necessarily answer the questions that you are asking about nutrition.

Deep Nutrition seems to offer the view that less-cooked is better, although not always. I am not sure what to believe at this point. I am eating a lot of slow-cooked (crock pot) pork and beef (fatty cuts) these days, which is well cooked but not overcooked. It tastes great and seems to be doing the job.
 
Firefly said:
I am just not sure how to "pull the plug", especially since he is being fed at school breakfast and lunch. I can send him to school with his own lunch box, but not sure how strict his teachers would be when he would ask for a glass of milk or when he does not get his crackers for a snack.

Hi Firefly,
I am not an expert, far from it, but wouldn't it help, if you explained to the teachers what the effect of dairy and gluten does to your child? Do they wish to have a student that is hyperactive and finds it hard to concentrate? I bet they don't. So ask them to cooperate.
Did you read Mark Hyman's The UltraMind Solution? You could use his examples of young kids that changed their diet and how it impacted their life and work in school!
 
Laura said:
Mariama said:
I was a dictator off and on. These last few years I stopped buying lemonade, crisps, all that sweet processed stuff, but as my partner still eats processed cakes and what have you I slipped back into old habits and allowed them to eat that junk. I really had to make a conscious effort to put a stop to all that.

That's got to stop. Your partner has to get onboard for the sake of the children. Children grow up to do what they see you do, not what you tell them. You have to BE the example; both of you.

I agree, I just did not know how to go about it. I worry about his health, now that i know the damage gluten and dairy does to the body (I keep reading). His father and stepfather died from a heart attack just like that and his best friend will never be the same, as he suffered a stroke. These people come from the old DDR and may find it hard to catch up?

I have decided that from now on I will do the shopping, so he at least he can't buy that sweet, processed stuff any longer. It is also a nice way to involve my kids. We have a lovely organic shop in the village. The owner is really cool, gives lots of discount, as we are good customers.
And I have ordered a paleo cookbook, the one with the recipes with chocolate, so that I can still make things that are yummy, but healthy.
 

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