"Life Without Bread"

[webglider]

quote from dugdeep:

Hi webglider. All of the foods you've asked about are OK, provided you're tolerant to them and you keep your total carbohydrate level low enough to keep you in ketosis. Some people may be avoiding some of the foods in your list because either they've found they're sensitive to them, or they find they're simply too high in carbs to keep them under their ideal limit. Carrot juice is really the only thing that jumps out at me as something that may be too sugary, although kombucha can be high in sugar depending on how long it's brewed (the longer it brews, the more the bacteria eat the existing sugar. If it's sweet AT ALL it means you're getting straight up sugar).

Thank you dugdeep. Although the nutritional information on the bottle says that there is only 4grams of sugar in the brand of komubucha that I drink, I think that I'll give it up. Maybe it gets sweeter while it's in the bottle, or maybe I'm not able to differentiate between the different tastes in the drink and think it's sweetness when maybe it's something else. Better be safe, I think, than sorry. Again, thanks for th red flag.

 

[Nienna]

Actually, I think that the article Nienna linked wasn't the best one. There are others that suggest that you can't get usable calcium from fruits and vegetables and that, in fact, eating too many of them when on the Paleo diet will actually inhibit your calcium though I can't remember the article right off-hand.


Found it: https://www.sott.net/articles/show/223987-Does-protein-leach-calcium-from-the-bones-Yes-but-only-if-it-is-plant-protein

Which says that eating plant proteins leaches calcium from the bones. So it doesn't make sense to think that you are going to get calcium from fruits and veggies.

There's a lot of articles on SOTT about it, so read them and then consider what your diet actually is. Also, consider what your paleolithic ancestors might have been eating and the fact that it was after the introduction of agriculture that human beings began having lots of bone problems.

Thank for catching that, Laura. These are very important points to remember. I apologize to you all for not mentioning that when I posted the article I linked to.

 

[truth seeker]

Here are some questions I have:

These are just my own thoughts based on personal experiences so for what it's worth. While the carb content is something to watch out for, I'd say that it really depends upon the specific situation of each person. From the many of the responses of others in general, it seems to me that those who can "tolerate" carbs often fall into the category of "cockroach". This basically means that they have no discernible symptoms. In other words, they may or may not be affected by carbs but if they are, have yet to reach a tipping point of having symptoms. To me, this doesn't necessarily mean that nothing is going on but rather they just haven't noticed it currently. For them, they may be really going on blind faith with regards to diet and I "think" that's a good attitude to take.

The truth as I see it, is if sugar feeds cancer and the body seems to be capable of using any carb as such, then it stands to reason that for "canary" people (and you seem to be currently in this category) most, if not all carbs are out particularly if one has reached the tipping point as you seem to have.

I didn't have cancer but I did suffer with fibroids for about 6 years. They improved when I was doing the buckwheat diet but have only seemed to completely go away when I got rid of all carbs for an initial period and only occasionally have some (I can't do this for more than 2 days in a row, however).

What's "funny" is that I was a cockroach person (or so I thought) and would eat anything and not suffer for it. The fibroids for me were the tipping point. While fibroids are considered to be benign, I figure who cares what they're considered when they cause so much discomfort? If these were so tenacious and seem to be fed by sugar/carbs, then I can only imagine what happens with cancer.

Keep doing as much research as you can and take care with it but my suggestion would be to gradually work towards no carbs in order to starve the tumor/s completely. Based on my own reactions (which may differ from yours), I'd suggest getting rid of all fruit/berries and carrots ("sweeter" carbs) for a start and read the detox threads - specifically candida (if you haven't already). That may be a good place to start. If I'm off on anything, as usual corrections are welcome. Big hugs, wg.

 

[Oxajil]

Keep doing as much research as you can and take care with it but my suggestion would be to gradually work towards no carbs in order to starve the tumor/s completely. Based on my own reactions (which may differ from yours), I'd suggest getting rid of all fruit/berries and carrots ("sweeter" carbs) for a start and read the detox threads - specifically candida (if you haven't already). That may be a good place to start. If I'm off on anything, as usual corrections are welcome. Big hugs, wg.

In addition to the advice given, webglider, may I suggest that you might want to keep a (Diet) Journal as you go. Writing down how you feel with every step you take, could help you obtain a clear idea on the effects of the diet on your body. Who knows, maybe one day you can make a blog out of it, and it could become helpful to others who might be going through the same as you. Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[webglider]

quotes from Truth Seeker:

The truth as I see it, is if sugar feeds cancer and the body seems to be capable of using any carb as such, then it stands to reason that for "canary" people (and you seem to be currently in this category) most, if not all carbs are out particularly if one has reached the tipping point as you seem to have.

The fibroids for me were the tipping point. While fibroids are considered to be benign, I figure who cares what they're considered when they cause so much discomfort? If these were so tenacious and seem to be fed by sugar/carbs, then I can only imagine what happens with cancer.

Keep doing as much research as you can and take care with it but my suggestion would be to gradually work towards no carbs in order to starve the tumor/s completely. Based on my own reactions (which may differ from yours), I'd suggest getting rid of all fruit/berries and carrots ("sweeter" carbs) for a start and read the detox threads - specifically candida (if you haven't already). That may be a good place to start. Big hugs, wg.

Thanks Truth Seeker for presenting the idea of the "tipping point" and the observation that people may react differently to the same foods.
I was approaching the diet from a "one size fits all" approach, kind of avoiding the extra caution that I need to take as my body has tipped the scale to weigh in on cancer rather than health.

That was my wishful thinking program running again, which, as I've mentioned before in other threads, always gets me into trouble.

quote from Truth Seeker:

Keep doing as much research as you can and take care with it but my suggestion would be to gradually work towards no carbs in order to starve the tumor/s completely. Based on my own reactions (which may differ from yours), I'd suggest getting rid of all fruit/berries and carrots ("sweeter" carbs) for a start and read the detox threads - specifically candida (if you haven't already). That may be a good place to start. Big hugs, wg.

[/quote]

Quote from Oxajil:

In addition to the advice given, webglider, may I suggest that you might want to keep a (Diet) Journal as you go. Writing down how you feel with every step you take, could help you obtain a clear idea on the effects of the diet on your body. Who knows, maybe one day you can make a blog out of it, and it could become helpful to others who might be going through the same as you. Good luck and keep us posted!

What a great idea! Keeping a journal will be a discipline that will help keep me on track. I can also explore emotions and other issues that come up, and also a vehicle for creativity!

Thank you both, Truth Seeker and Oxajil!

 

[SeekinTruth]

I also think keeping a journal is a great idea, webglider. Besides other benefits, you'll be able to track back and see what you ate if you have any negative symptoms/feelings, etc. It can get a bit involved and tricky as you regain sensitivity to what foods trigger bad reactions, so having it all written in a journal will make it easier to identify and eliminate the culprits.

Just to add to what truth seeker wrote, I think it's very important to slowly go to toward the zero carbs target. The fact is that we don't need to eat ANY carbs. That's very hard to do because even egg whites have a little bit of carbs, so you'll typically end up eating around 10 to 20 grams of carbs at the end of the reduction. And remember that if you eat too much protein, it will be converted to glucose by your body, as well.

I also hit a tipping point 6 years ago and through diet change and supplements I got over it in around 6 months with a few recurrences because of reintroducing bad foods. In my case, it manifested as prostatitis and recurring urinary tract infections. My real problem was that I ate literally an INSANE amount of carbs all my life. I'm talking eating sugar and pastries in the astronomical level. I also ate moderately high amounts of bread, pizza, pasta, etc. So I'm quite certain that by the time I crashed with the suffering and high fevers every week or so, I had systemic candida that was particularly hitting the reproductive/urinary system. This figures because it's a center of biochemical imbalances that were the result of this crazy diet.

I first eliminated all refined sugar and refined grains/flours. But I was still eating some honey, quite a bit of fruit in season, etc. For example, I might eat 3 apricots and a couple of plums a day, although they were either sour or sweet n' sour variety. With prostate specific (and some general) supplementation and eating A LOT of organ meats, it was enough to get over the acute stage of my problems.

But over the years, I slowly transitioned to this current diet that is basically around 75% or more animal/saturated fat. I'm really quite healthy now for 45 years old and one who abused his body severely for the first 39 years as a sugar junky. There's an unusual amount of cold and flu type of stuff going around all the time, but me and my family never get sick like everyone else we know. The only thing that can account for it is this diet, because that's the only difference between us and everyone else.

Good luck with the transition to super low carb/high (healthy) fat diet. :)

 

[webglider]

quote by Seekin Truth:

I first eliminated all refined sugar and refined grains/flours. But I was still eating some honey, quite a bit of fruit in season, etc. For example, I might eat 3 apricots and a couple of plums a day, although they were either sour or sweet n' sour variety. With prostate specific (and some general) supplementation and eating A LOT of organ meats, it was enough to get over the acute stage of my problems.

Thank you for sharing your process with me - and for all the encouragement. You've been there for me right from the beginning of this process first on breast cancer biopsy thread and now here on this one. And I'm finding, as I'm reading, that you've helped many others, and the advice you've given them is also helping me.


I just want you to know that I am listening and implementing your suggestions and that I am very very grateful for the time you have taken to help me and others.

I have already started the journel as Oxajil suggested, and recorded the supplements I took this morning. Truth Seeker's observation that I have passed the "tipping point" has been very sobering as well as motivating. I can do this - now that I know what needs to be done.

 

[SeekinTruth]

You're welcome, webglider. Just keep researching and carefully experimenting. You may run into some valuable information about your specific issue. So, for example, in my case the diet was really helped out by a half dozen or more supplements for the specific situation and it really did the trick.

Heck just eliminating grains should have a great effect on just about anybody's health. Just to remind you though, go slowly with reducing carbs. It can take a couple of month to get adapted too, when you've reduced carbs to the point where the ketosis will start -- and the actually amount is individual usually needing to be below 60 to 70 grams of net carbs per day. So keep networking because so many have been through keto adaptation and can give valuable pointers.

 

[Mike]

I was going to start another thread for this, but I have question related to the diet. I received some concerning news that I'm showing signs of kidney disease most likely related to taking medications, specifically Lithium and the amount of water I drink due to the dry mouth from the medication. The indicator that shows I'm having problems is the GFR (Glomerular Filtration Rate) that has been read twice recently at 56 where 60 and above is normal. Blood pressure was normal. Blood sugar level was good at around 85 and I had no protein in my urine. I've been taken off lithium and was given a packet of reading about the condition and what to do in terms of eating. The information says to limit sodium and potassium and to eat a smaller amount of protein than normal.

Thought I would update everyone and say that the last two blood test I had came out that my readings for my kidneys are normal. Looks like the Lithium was the culprit, messing with my kidneys and being taken off it reversed the issue. I'm enrolled in a Safe Kidney study where I will be tested and reviewed annually to keep an eye on the issue.

 

[Foxx]

Thought I would update everyone and say that the last two blood test I had came out that my readings for my kidneys are normal. Looks like the Lithium was the culprit, messing with my kidneys and being taken off it reversed the issue. I'm enrolled in a Safe Kidney study where I will be tested and reviewed annually to keep an eye on the issue.

Good to hear, Bear! And glad your kidneys are improving :)

 

[SeekinTruth]

Thought I would update everyone and say that the last two blood test I had came out that my readings for my kidneys are normal. Looks like the Lithium was the culprit, messing with my kidneys and being taken off it reversed the issue. I'm enrolled in a Safe Kidney study where I will be tested and reviewed annually to keep an eye on the issue.

Good to hear, Bear! And glad your kidneys are improving :)

Yeah, very good news, Bear. :) The good thing about this particular diet (the basic "framework") if it's being done right, is that it's NOT a high protein diet. It's moderate protein (really not much different than most other diets' protein intake) and very high fat / very low carb. I think that there's a good amount of evidence that eating too much protein leads to long term health problems, kidney problems included. Whereas, there's a great deal of evidence that high fat, low carb, moderate protein is about as healthy a diet as you can have.

 

[loreta]

I wanted to tell all of you that my condition is improving since the last month when I wrote here (I don't find were) that I had problems with my irritated colon. I follow the suggestions gave it to me by some of you and by Laura, to cut to 0 grains, gluten an dairy. I am doing this. And I see a BIG difference. I take also enzymes that help me very much my digestion. I really don't know what my condition have been without your counsels. I imagine the worst: a continuity of sufferance. I had some blood tests that gave negative of everything, I mean, nothing that can tell that I have a colon problem but anyway I have an appointment with a specialist the 17 of this month. Maybe I will ask him if I am allergic to gluten, to pass some analysis. I will tell him my diet. I expect nothing of him. I expect nothing of doctors, by the way.

I just wanted to tell you this, and how happy I am to be part of this group that help me so much in my evolution, for my health (mentally and physically.) Now I am looking for a good diet book that can give me recipes because I don't have imagination in that sense. One book that someone gave as a reference is really to much expensive at Amazon.Uk. I read everyday this threat that help me in my discipline ( I was an addict to pastries and candies). With that my husband and me re-start to eat at "intelligent" hours, 12 pm and around 6pm. and go to bed around 9:30. We do this schedule since own week and feel much, much better. I think everything is connected.

Thanks again!

 

[3DStudent]

I've tried taking HCL (with stearates--not sure how much that effects it and have ordered one without) in attempting to determine if I have low stomach acidity (blood type A+, though I'm not sure there's any truth to the blood types theory) and haven't experienced any effects from doing so, up to taking 8 capsules (648mg each) at once.

Yeah, 8 is a lot. I get the slight burning with just one or two capsules. I only take HCL when I eat too much protein. Some of my supplements have stearates, and I try to get them without it when I can. I think it's nearly impossible to not get any, if you're taking a variety of supplements.

I've tried some vitamin E (it's Solgar mixed tocopherols in safflower oil, but I'm sure it's soy derived--are others taking vitamin E anymore and, if so, what brands?) and vitamin C (though the vitamin C also has stearates--I've got some ascorbic acid powder with bioflavonoids coming), though I just tried the two together today so I'll see what the effects are. I've also tried ox bile (again with the stearates) and it didn't seem to have much effect (maybe 500mg at a meal?).

Yeah they like to mix safflower and soy oils it seems. Both are high in Omega 6's too.

The pork I've been eating is pastured, but supplemented with grains (and I'm not sure which ones...); are other people eating pork supplemented with grains? At least in america, it seems pretty hard to find pork that hasn't been fed grains (I'd love to try some of that Mansalitsa bacon :) )

If you can only find grain fed meat, try upping your Omega 3s (cod liver oil), to compensate. USwellnessmeats.com is a good place to get grass fed meat. If you have some money to put up front and a large freezer, you can get grass fed ground beef under 5$ a pound, and ground pork for about $5.50.

 

[ScarletBegonias]

If you can only find grain fed meat, try upping your Omega 3s (cod liver oil), to compensate. USwellnessmeats.com is a good place to get grass fed meat. If you have some money to put up front and a large freezer, you can get grass fed ground beef under 5$ a pound, and ground pork for about $5.50.

Yeah, that is a great spot and if you order from there be sure to check out their newsletter so you can get a 15% discount.

 

[Foxx]

Yeah, 8 is a lot. I get the slight burning with just one or two capsules. I only take HCL when I eat too much protein. Some of my supplements have stearates, and I try to get them without it when I can. I think it's nearly impossible to not get any, if you're taking a variety of supplements.

Thanks for the feedback! I've been experimenting a bit more and I think my liver was impaired rather than having low (or at least excessively low) stomach acid. I've been taking Kroeger Milk Thistle caps and occasionally HCL and seem to be doing better. I've also been taking some of the Newton Homeopathic Tinctures (detoxifier at night and bowel and digestive care in the morning along with the Candida fighter tincture when I think of it), so this could also be influencing my gut functioning.

Yeah they like to mix safflower and soy oils it seems. Both are high in Omega 6's too.

Well the Solgar one I have doesn't list Soy as an ingredient, but doesn't list it as containing none and I read somewhere that all commercial Vitamin E formulas were extracted from soy. I'm not sure, but the Milk Thistle seems to be helping enough that I'll probably skip the Vitamin E for a while.

If you can only find grain fed meat, try upping your Omega 3s (cod liver oil), to compensate. USwellnessmeats.com is a good place to get grass fed meat. If you have some money to put up front and a large freezer, you can get grass fed ground beef under 5$ a pound, and ground pork for about $5.50.

Well the pork is pastured on a local farm and isn't fed exclusively grain, but is supplemented to a percentage I'm currently not aware of. The beef I've been getting from the same farm is 100% grass, but not the pork. I'm mainly wondering, since pigs aren't ruminants and only have one stomach, how much does them eating a portion of their diet as grain matter? I'd rather buy local than ordering online and I like pork, but am I compromising my health if their diet is supplemented with grains?

Thanks as well to you and Scarlet for the recommendation and the note about getting 15% off--I'll definitely check them out, but I'd also like to clear up the pork and grain issue.

:)