"Life Without Bread"

Just thought I'd mention that yesterday I had quite a bit of extra fat in the form of 3 butter teas and 3 cups of cocoa (two with coconut oil and one with coconut oil AND butter). Couple of unusual things I noticed: first, I'm not having loose bowels from having even more fat (for quite a while I was reaching the limit of fat intake before loose bowels would start). I also had extra fat the previous few days, but not as much as yesterday.

The second thing is that my urine smells weird, reminiscent of the first few weeks I was keto adapting. I wonder if you eat more fat than your body can utilize and having somehow rectified undigested fat in bowel movements, I'm urinating ketone bodies out? The other thing is that I've been smoking twice as much as usual, especially yesterday and today. Wonder if that had something to do with the lack of loose bowels from all the extra fat intake. Kinda strange, FWIW.
 
SeekinTruth said:
Just thought I'd mention that yesterday I had quite a bit of extra fat in the form of 3 butter teas and 3 cups of cocoa (two with coconut oil and one with coconut oil AND butter). Couple of unusual things I noticed: first, I'm not having loose bowels from having even more fat (for quite a while I was reaching the limit of fat intake before loose bowels would start). I also had extra fat the previous few days, but not as much as yesterday.

The second thing is that my urine smells weird, reminiscent of the first few weeks I was keto adapting. I wonder if you eat more fat than your body can utilize and having somehow rectified undigested fat in bowel movements, I'm urinating ketone bodies out? The other thing is that I've been smoking twice as much as usual, especially yesterday and today. Wonder if that had something to do with the lack of loose bowels from all the extra fat intake. Kinda strange, FWIW.
I think you may be overdosing on carbs and going out of ketosis, this is what I experience when I overdo either the amount of protein or carbs I'm eating - ie going into carb burning.
 
Prodigal Son said:
SeekinTruth said:
Just thought I'd mention that yesterday I had quite a bit of extra fat in the form of 3 butter teas and 3 cups of cocoa (two with coconut oil and one with coconut oil AND butter). Couple of unusual things I noticed: first, I'm not having loose bowels from having even more fat (for quite a while I was reaching the limit of fat intake before loose bowels would start). I also had extra fat the previous few days, but not as much as yesterday.

The second thing is that my urine smells weird, reminiscent of the first few weeks I was keto adapting. I wonder if you eat more fat than your body can utilize and having somehow rectified undigested fat in bowel movements, I'm urinating ketone bodies out? The other thing is that I've been smoking twice as much as usual, especially yesterday and today. Wonder if that had something to do with the lack of loose bowels from all the extra fat intake. Kinda strange, FWIW.
I think you may be overdosing on carbs and going out of ketosis, this is what I experience when I overdo either the amount of protein or carbs I'm eating - ie going into carb burning.

Hmmm. That's certainly a possibility, but I didn't have more than about 15 grams of carbs (just the cocoa and xylitol {about 3 teaspoons) and stevia {about 1 teaspoon all day} plus maybe a gram or two from the egg whites). And my protein intake was about the same as what I usually eat. I would imagine that I'd have to eat more than about 40 grams of carbs a day to have a chance of being knocked out of ketosis. :/
 
SeekinTruth said:
Prodigal Son said:
SeekinTruth said:
Just thought I'd mention that yesterday I had quite a bit of extra fat in the form of 3 butter teas and 3 cups of cocoa (two with coconut oil and one with coconut oil AND butter). Couple of unusual things I noticed: first, I'm not having loose bowels from having even more fat (for quite a while I was reaching the limit of fat intake before loose bowels would start). I also had extra fat the previous few days, but not as much as yesterday.

The second thing is that my urine smells weird, reminiscent of the first few weeks I was keto adapting. I wonder if you eat more fat than your body can utilize and having somehow rectified undigested fat in bowel movements, I'm urinating ketone bodies out? The other thing is that I've been smoking twice as much as usual, especially yesterday and today. Wonder if that had something to do with the lack of loose bowels from all the extra fat intake. Kinda strange, FWIW.
I think you may be overdosing on carbs and going out of ketosis, this is what I experience when I overdo either the amount of protein or carbs I'm eating - ie going into carb burning.

Hmmm. That's certainly a possibility, but I didn't have more than about 15 grams of carbs (just the cocoa and xylitol {about 3 teaspoons) and stevia {about 1 teaspoon all day} plus maybe a gram or two from the egg whites). And my protein intake was about the same as what I usually eat. I would imagine that I'd have to eat more than about 40 grams of carbs a day to have a chance of being knocked out of ketosis. :/

I don't know how many carbs are in your cocoa powder, but mine has 15g in each ounce. So if your's is around the same, and you had 3 cups, not knowing how much you used, but if it was around an ounce, there's 45g right there.
 
Nienna Eluch said:
I don't know how many carbs are in your cocoa powder, but mine has 15g in each ounce. So if your's is around the same, and you had 3 cups, not knowing how much you used, but if it was around an ounce, there's 45g right there.

What kind of cocoa do you have, is it pure, unsweetened? I have pure 100% cocoa powder, and it has only 13,9g carbs for 100g (3,5 ounces).
 
I've been using a Russian brand of pure cocoa. I used to use an Armenian brand, but now it's hard to find (I also use a Polish brand once in a while, but the Russian one is the richest tasting). The Armenian brand used to say 12 grams of carbs for the whole pack of 100 grams. I put one teaspoon for each cup so I'm gathering it's about a gram or two of carbs from the cocoa and 2 grams of carbs for the 1/2 teaspoon Xylitol plus a very small fraction for the 1/8 teaspoon of Stevia.

Since I don't get any other carbs except the cocoa and the sweeteners plus a bit from eggs, I don't think I'm going over 15 grams of carbs a day. The only thing I eat is butter, eggs, bacon, pork burgers, cracklings.
 
ST, maybe it's your body reacting to the cacao. I'm not sure if it's a natural part of the diet (having cacao daily). Of course having it occassionally would be okay, I would guess.
Since cacao comes from cacao beans, maybe it is the anti-nutrients in it causing you a bit of a trouble. Also, check out this link: _http://www.living-foods.com/articles/toxiccacao.html

Just a guess here.
 
Adaryn said:
Nienna Eluch said:
I don't know how many carbs are in your cocoa powder, but mine has 15g in each ounce. So if your's is around the same, and you had 3 cups, not knowing how much you used, but if it was around an ounce, there's 45g right there.

What kind of cocoa do you have, is it pure, unsweetened? I have pure 100% cocoa powder, and it has only 13,9g carbs for 100g (3,5 ounces).

It's pure cacao powder - unsweetened. But I suppose each product is different. Maybe I read the label wrong?
 
Oxajil said:
ST, maybe it's your body reacting to the cacao. I'm not sure if it's a natural part of the diet (having cacao daily). Of course having it occassionally would be okay, I would guess.
Since cacao comes from cacao beans, maybe it is the anti-nutrients in it causing you a bit of a trouble. Also, check out this link: _http://www.living-foods.com/articles/toxiccacao.html

Just a guess here.
Thanks for posting this link, Oxajil! It interests me greatly because I drink 1 cup of hot cocoa every morning (1 TBSP Trader Joe's brand unsweetened cocoa powder + stevia + water) and have for a couple of years. It's only 2 carbs so it works well for me on this diet. There's an interesting thread on PaleoHacks that discusses it: _http://paleohacks.com/questions/2336/raw-cacao-super-food-or-toxin#axzz1rapM9D1M

Wikipedia also has some info regarding its health benefits:

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoa_solids
Cocoa powder contains several minerals including calcium, copper, magnesium, phosphorus, potassium, sodium and zinc. All of these minerals are found in greater quantities in cocoa powder than either cocoa butter or cocoa liquor.[3] Cocoa solids also contain 230 mg of caffeine and 2057 mg of theobromine per 100g, which are mostly absent from the other components of the cocoa bean.[4]
[edit] Flavonoids

Cocoa powder is rich in flavonoids, a type of phenolic. The amount of flavonoids depends on the amount of processing and manufacturing the cocoa powder undergoes, but cocoa powder can contain up to 10% its weight in flavonoids.[3] Flavanols are one of six compounds further classified as flavonoids. Flavanols, which are also found in fruits and vegetables, are linked to certain health benefits linked to coronary heart disease and stroke. The topic of how flavanols benefit cardiovascular health is still under debate. It has been suggested that the flavanols may take part in mechanisms such as nitric oxide and antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, and antiplatelet effects.[5] Benefiting these mechanisms may improve endothelial function, lipid levels, blood pressure and insulin resistance.[5]

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocoa_bean
Health benefits of cocoa consumption

Chocolate and cocoa contain a high level of flavonoids, specifically epicatechin, which may have beneficial cardiovascular effects on health.[19][20][21][22]

Prolonged intake of flavanol-rich cocoa has been linked to cardiovascular health benefits,[19][20][21] though it should be noted that this refers to raw cocoa and to a lesser extent, dark chocolate, since flavonoids degrade during cooking and alkalizing processes.[23] Studies have found short term benefits in LDL cholesterol levels from dark chocolate consumption.[citation needed] The addition of whole milk to milk chocolate reduces the overall cocoa content per ounce while increasing saturated fat levels, possibly negating some of cocoa's heart-healthy potential benefits.[citation needed] Although one study[24] has concluded that milk impairs the absorption of polyphenolic flavonoids, e.g. (-)epicatechin, a followup[25] failed to find the effect.

Hollenberg and colleagues of Harvard Medical School studied the effects of cocoa and flavanols on Panama's Kuna Indian population, who are heavy consumers of cocoa. The researchers found that the Kuna Indians living on the islands had significantly lower rates of heart disease and cancer compared to those on the mainland who do not drink cocoa as on the islands. It is believed that the improved blood flow after consumption of flavanol-rich cocoa may help to achieve health benefits in hearts and other organs. In particular, the benefits may extend to the brain and have important implications for learning and memory.[26][27]

Foods rich in cocoa appear to reduce blood pressure but drinking green and black tea may not, according to an analysis of previously published research in the April 9, 2007 issue of Archives of Internal Medicine,[20] one of the JAMA/Archives journals.[28]

[...]

A 15-year study of elderly men[30] published in the Archives of Internal Medicine in 2006 found a 50 percent reduction in cardiovascular mortality and a 47 percent reduction in all-cause mortality for the men regularly consuming the most cocoa, compared to those consuming the least cocoa from all sources.

So maybe consuming it isn't so bad after all? I think the most I've ever had is 4 cups a day and that's still only 8 carbs, hmm...
 
Nienna Eluch said:
Adaryn said:
Nienna Eluch said:
I don't know how many carbs are in your cocoa powder, but mine has 15g in each ounce. So if your's is around the same, and you had 3 cups, not knowing how much you used, but if it was around an ounce, there's 45g right there.

What kind of cocoa do you have, is it pure, unsweetened? I have pure 100% cocoa powder, and it has only 13,9g carbs for 100g (3,5 ounces).

It's pure cacao powder - unsweetened. But I suppose each product is different. Maybe I read the label wrong?

Glad I posted this. I took another look at the package (with my correct glasses on) and the only thing it lists as "per serving" is the calories, I think. There is a very dark think line under it and then it continues with the other stuff. So if that is so, it is 15g carbs for 16oz, or 453.5 grams.

Sorry for the confusion.
 
Nienna Eluch said:
Nienna Eluch said:
Adaryn said:
Nienna Eluch said:
I don't know how many carbs are in your cocoa powder, but mine has 15g in each ounce. So if your's is around the same, and you had 3 cups, not knowing how much you used, but if it was around an ounce, there's 45g right there.

What kind of cocoa do you have, is it pure, unsweetened? I have pure 100% cocoa powder, and it has only 13,9g carbs for 100g (3,5 ounces).

It's pure cacao powder - unsweetened. But I suppose each product is different. Maybe I read the label wrong?

Glad I posted this. I took another look at the package (with my correct glasses on) and the only thing it lists as "per serving" is the calories, I think. There is a very dark think line under it and then it continues with the other stuff. So if that is so, it is 15g carbs for 16oz, or 453.5 grams.

Sorry for the confusion.

And my pure 100% cocoa powder has no carbs in it. So it can vary quite a lot.
 
Oxajil said:
ST, maybe it's your body reacting to the cacao. I'm not sure if it's a natural part of the diet (having cacao daily). Of course having it occassionally would be okay, I would guess.
Since cacao comes from cacao beans, maybe it is the anti-nutrients in it causing you a bit of a trouble. Also, check out this link: _http://www.living-foods.com/articles/toxiccacao.html

Just a guess here.

Can anti-nutrients be blocking fat? I don't know. I usually only drink 1 cup of cocoa a day and from 0 to 3 cups of buttered tea (sometime 1 cup will be without butter). I've never noticed any issues related to cocoa (or tea for that matter) and I DID eliminate it for about 10 days back in the summer. When I introduced it back, I didn't notice anything negative (maybe 1 cup is not enough to have any negative reaction).

I also didn't notice anything negative when I drank 3 cups of cocoa the other day. The only reason I posted about it is that what was different was no loose bowels with about 80 grams or more extra butter with the tea and cocoa plus extra coconut oil that I don't normally consume. Plus the weird urine smell made me wonder if I'm urinating ketones. I still think that smoking twice or more as much as usual is connected to these changes.
 
Scarlet, yea, it surely has its benefits. If it works for ya, I guess it wouldn't be harmful to continue. If you want to, you can always skip it for a week or so and reintroduce it, and see what happens. And ST, I wouldn't know what's happening, maybe somebody else would know!
 
Just thought I'd post some blood test results.

I've currently cut out all dairy (except butter and ghee), all refined sugar, all gluten and other grains. I'm cooking with lard and eating fatty meats where available. I tip the excess lard out of the pan and mop it up with the meat like gravy. I have butter, ghee or avocado with meats that don't have much fat. (meats are pork, lamb, beef, chicken and turkey). I'm also making a weekly batch of bone broth. I haven't been able to come at drinking it yet, but I use it as a base for soups or stews. I also use it in a quick meal if I'm reheating some leftover meat from the previous nights meal...just dice up the meat, throw it in a saucepan with some bone broth and gently simmer until warm and add salt. While I haven't yet started measuring carbs, apart from the avocado on meats without much fat, I've gradually reduced down to a small serving - less than a cup - of either salad or veges with one meal a day.

While I added more saturated fats to my diet and replaced carb meals with meat meals straight up, reducing the carbs overall has been a gradual process over the last 4 or 5 months.

It has been a relatively painless change after the sugar withdrawal. I did have odd days of general aches and cramps but overall feel very healthy and more energetic :-). I think I'm coping with other stressors in my life in a better fashion too.

I'm taking Omega 3, magnesium, milk thistle, probiotics, vit C, L-Glutamine and himalayan salt.

I had these blood tests taken last week as a general health check since I have entered menopause. Just thought I'd record them here.

Haematology:
Haemoglobin 147g/l (115-165)
RBC 4.48x10^12/l (3.8-5.50)
PCV 0.43 (0.35 -0.47)
MCV 95fL (80-99)
MCH 32.8pg (27.0-32.0)

White Cell Count: 7.4x10^9/L (4.0 -11.0)
Neutrophils 46% 3.4x10^9/L (2.0-8.0)
Lymphocytes 39% 2.9x10^9/L (1.0 - 4.0)
Monocytes 11% 0.8x10^9/L (<1.0)
Eosinophils 4% 0.3x10^9/L (<0.6)

Platelets: 183x10^9/L (150-450)
Comment: No significant FBE abnormality.

Endocrinology:
Follicle Stimulating Hormone 114 U/L
Luteinizing Hormone 58 U/L
Oestradiol <60 pmol/L
Progesterone 1.0 nmol/L

Biochemistry:
Iron Study
Ferritin 240 ug/L

Lipid Study
Total Chol. 3.7mmol/L
HDL Chol. 1.2mmol/L (>1.0)
LDL Chol. 2.0mmol/L (<2.5)

Triglyceride 1.1mmol/L (<1.5)

LDL/HDL Ratio 1.7
Chol/HDL Ratio 3.1

General Chemistry:
Liver Function.
Bilirubin 10umol/L (<25)
Alkaline Phosphatase 38U/L (30 - 120)
AST 16 U/L (<40)
ALT 20 U/L (<41)
Gamma GT 16 U/L (<50)
Albumin 38g/L (35-50)
Total Protein 64g/L (60 - 82)

Electrolytes/Renal
Sodium 139 mmol/L (135 - 145)
Potassium 4.3 mmol/L (3.7 - 5.3)
Chloride 104 mmol/L (95 - 110)
Bicarbonate 26 mmol/L (20-32)
Urea 9.6 mmol/L (2.5 - 8.0)
Creatinine 80 umol/L (40 - 85)
eGFR 67 mL/min/1.73m2

(urea in the above is slightly high, but since it was a fasting test, I didn't drink or eat anything before the test.)

Endocrinology:
Thyroid Function
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone: 1.35mIU/L (0.35 - 5.5)

Vit D (25-hydroxy) 79 nmol/L (>75)

My Blood Pressure was apparently good too. I didn't make note of it though.
 
SeekinTruth said:
Can anti-nutrients be blocking fat? I don't know. I usually only drink 1 cup of cocoa a day and from 0 to 3 cups of buttered tea (sometime 1 cup will be without butter). I've never noticed any issues related to cocoa (or tea for that matter) and I DID eliminate it for about 10 days back in the summer. When I introduced it back, I didn't notice anything negative (maybe 1 cup is not enough to have any negative reaction).
This may well be possible. Perhaps the loose stools were initially cause by too much fat so perhaps you may want to try cutting back a bit on the buttered tea (maybe one cup?).

SeekinTruth said:
I also didn't notice anything negative when I drank 3 cups of cocoa the other day. The only reason I posted about it is that what was different was no loose bowels with about 80 grams or more extra butter with the tea and cocoa plus extra coconut oil that I don't normally consume. Plus the weird urine smell made me wonder if I'm urinating ketones. I still think that smoking twice or more as much as usual is connected to these changes.
Your body may also be in the process of becoming more carb sensitive and can't handle what it usually did. You might want to try getting rid of the cocoa except as an occasional treat and see how that works.

Also, sorry if I overlooked it but are you adding xylitol/stevia to the buttered tea as well? Perhaps this was the cause of loose stools?
 

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