"Life Without Bread"

[Gaby]

Any other ideas?

Well, another way to do it is to extract testimonial info from the forum. People in general already reported a ton of info throughout the health section of this forum. But it will be nice if members would write testimonials in a synthesized way since it is really a ton of info spread out throughout several dates and threads.

 

[anart]

Any other ideas?

Well, another way to do it is to extract testimonial info from the forum. People in general already reported a ton of info throughout the health section of this forum. But it will be nice if members would write testimonials in a synthesized way since it is really a ton of info spread out throughout several dates and threads.

I think the most efficient way to go about it would be to develop the standardized questionnaire you mentioned that people can fill out. Then you can track the answers easily. The questionnaire can include weight loss, symptoms, symptom relief, time on the diet, inflammation issues, relief, all sorts of things. People could be separated into groups according to how strict they are on the diet and symptom relief as well as whether they've done any cold adaptation at all. I think a standardized questionnaire will make the data set more manageable.

 

[Gaby]

I think the most efficient way to go about it would be to develop the standardized questionnaire you mentioned that people can fill out. Then you can track the answers easily. The questionnaire can include weight loss, symptoms, symptom relief, time on the diet, inflammation issues, relief, all sorts of things. People could be separated into groups according to how strict they are on the diet and symptom relief as well as whether they've done any cold adaptation at all. I think a standardized questionnaire will make the data set more manageable.

Yeah, sounds like the way to go to me as well. It is really a ton of data what is already posted. But with a questionnaire/guidance, people can write something synthesized in one place and they will realize how far they have come. It will be a "writing to heal" exercise for all of us :)

I'll do a quick review of some of the books and questionnaires and see if I'm missing some important details to include. If anyone has other ideas to include that will be cool too.

 

[Gawan]

Speaking of my day job, we sometimes work with HbA1c measures (HEDIS), dividing results into < 7, 7 - 9 (or 7-8 and 8-9), and > 9. Anything less than 7 is considered "good control," and above 9 is "poor control." The measurements are for diabetic patients, however. I don't have any data about healthy populations.

Even though HbA1C is still not accurate like the problem of lab consensus into what is small LDL particle and what is the big fluffy anti-inflammatory one, HbA1c is still considered a good test to have an idea of glycation in one's body. It is explained briefly here: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/226400-Handy-dandy-carb-index

Main problem been that if one has anemia or dehydration the result might be skewed.

It should definitely not count for a non-diabetic person. HbA1c should be around 4-5%. And according to the article diabetics itself with a HabA1c of 6.5% are really bad "treated".


To the experiment I have a great collection HbA1c's ;D.

We can create a questionnaire/guide which will help people give their testimonial in a more structured way. We can post the questionnaire/guide into a new thread, then people can respond it on the same thread or send it as a PM if they wish to remain anonymous. Then we can create a database/spreadsheet and patterns will emerge easier. We'll have to consult a statistic wizard if we see we have enough data for that purpose, otherwise telling the story as a testimonial kind of way would still be a compelling picture.

As far as I'm aware of at least one hundred would be needed to be representative but it may depends also on the research-subject itself, the more important thing would be the design and hypothesis of the research (as Anart mentioned). Also when quantitative studies have most often many more data, since questionnaires could be sent far and wide (online for example, maybe including sott itself, since it has many readers comes up as an idea). Eventually a "test" group would be helpful as well or simply to find other data that has been already researched. Kind of a meta-analysis. If help would be needed I could look things up for statistics or ask other persons.

 

[Foxx]

Any other ideas?

Do you also allow 4-5 hours between dinner and bedtime?

Yup, sometimes a little more (probably max 6-7 hours).

 

[Gawan]

I think the most efficient way to go about it would be to develop the standardized questionnaire you mentioned that people can fill out. Then you can track the answers easily. The questionnaire can include weight loss, symptoms, symptom relief, time on the diet, inflammation issues, relief, all sorts of things. People could be separated into groups according to how strict they are on the diet and symptom relief as well as whether they've done any cold adaptation at all. I think a standardized questionnaire will make the data set more manageable.

Yeah, sounds like the way to go to me as well. It is really a ton of data what is already posted. But with a questionnaire/guidance, people can write something synthesized in one place and they will realize how far they have come. It will be a "writing to heal" exercise for all of us :)

I'll do a quick review of some of the books and questionnaires and see if I'm missing some important details to include. If anyone has other ideas to include that will be cool too.

Maybe there are already standardized questionnaires you could use and to compare? Maybe using google scholar is an option. Fwiw.

 

[Oxajil]

Thank you! Ideally we'll have to brainstorm directly about it, but if it ain't possible then we can consult Universities, etc to see what is the best option, if any. I have access to this kind of research data and medical statistics software so we could do it this way in order to respect anonymity and other ethical issues.

Yw! Yes that sounds about the right way of going about it. And I also like the idea of the questionnaire, maybe we can put up a draft and then network about things that can be added/edited?

Yup, sometimes a little more (probably max 6-7 hours).

Hm, you can maybe experiment a little with your 6PM meal. Try making it smaller than usual (like less protein than normal) and see if it affects your sleep any different. You can also think about sleeping in a totally dark room if you aren't already (as in getting those special curtains that block light coming in), and you might also want to think about supplementing with Omega 3s, especially if you don't eat grass-fed meat. I just read this:

A diet low in the types of fatty acids easily obtained through fish oil can interfere with the production of normal physiological chemicals. Fish oil is high in the Omega-3 fatty acids eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and can be obtained directly from fatty fish or from supplements. A 2008 study in the Journal of Nutrition conducted by M. Lavialle and colleagues suggests that a diet deficient in Omega-3 fatty acids lessens the melatonin rhythm, weakens the circadian clock functioning, and has a part in nocturnal sleep disturbances.

_http://www.livestrong.com/article/340748-fish-oil-benefits-for-sleep/#ixzz1tSnb936e

Hopefully as you continue on with the diet, you won't wake up anymore during the night. Drinking water with a tiny bit of salt half an hour or so before bed, might help as well. And not to forget: EE or pipe-breathing & meditation before going to sleep. Just some thoughts!

 

[LQB]

I'll do a quick review of some of the books and questionnaires and see if I'm missing some important details to include. If anyone has other ideas to include that will be cool too.

More custom questions based on your post might include sleep quality, Mg supplementation, and CT treatments.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Any other ideas?

Do you also allow 4-5 hours between dinner and bedtime?

Yup, sometimes a little more (probably max 6-7 hours).

Foxx, there is something else to consider: you may just be sleeping in 2 "phases." Like sleeping around 4 hours, waking for around an hour, and then sleeping for another 4 or so. This is not unusual. There's quite a bit of info about this being normal before electric lights were available. So if you feel (at some point) that the overall quality of your sleep/rest is good, the 2 phase pattern may be natural if everything else is ruled out. So, while continuing to look into this issue, keep it in mind and look into that too. FWIW.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Mrs. Peel, your CRP while you had a cold is probably not meaningful. If at all possible try to get it checked again. Your HbA1c being that high is not good (not sure how much it would be effected from the cold though). Do you still eat any grains or starches? Do you supplement with magnesium (and Vitamin C and other antioxidants)? Inflammation and glycation should NOT be ignored. Try to network and track down what's going on and then work on fixing it.

Yes, I'm still eating some brown rice and quinoa as I don't think I'm ready for steady meat/fat yet. Yes, I do take magnesium and Vit. C up to bowel tolerance. I'm not trying to ignore my inflammation. I've also taken boswelia, milk thistle, and a bunch of other anti-inflammatory supplements. I think leaky gut is at the bottom of it all, and some possible food allergies. As a kid, I had taken a lot of antibiotics, ate massive amounts of sugar, tons of NSAIDS for various injuries and surgeries, and was a weekend social drinker for decades. I've been inflamed and had candida my whole life. I couldn't even wear contact lenses for more than a couple hours cause my eyes don't produce enough tears, but back then I didn't know it was from chronic inflammation, so this has been with me for over 40 years.

Just trying to fix things a little at a time, I guess. :)

Perhaps try to consume more anti-inflammatory foods/supplements such as curcumin / turmeric, ginger root, etc. I think it would be a good idea to eliminate brown rice and quinoa. Perhaps replace it with "foundational veggies." Just try to avoid ALL grains / seeds. You can also take glutamine and slippery elm to help heal the gut and see what happens.

Also, apologies if this was mentioned before, but are you in ketosis or are you're carbs too high still that your in glucose metabolism?

 

[Laura]

Yes, I'm still eating some brown rice and quinoa as I don't think I'm ready for steady meat/fat yet. Yes, I do take magnesium and Vit. C up to bowel tolerance. I'm not trying to ignore my inflammation. I've also taken boswelia, milk thistle, and a bunch of other anti-inflammatory supplements. I think leaky gut is at the bottom of it all, and some possible food allergies. As a kid, I had taken a lot of antibiotics, ate massive amounts of sugar, tons of NSAIDS for various injuries and surgeries, and was a weekend social drinker for decades. I've been inflamed and had candida my whole life. I couldn't even wear contact lenses for more than a couple hours cause my eyes don't produce enough tears, but back then I didn't know it was from chronic inflammation, so this has been with me for over 40 years.

Just trying to fix things a little at a time, I guess. :)

Perhaps try to consume more anti-inflammatory foods/supplements such as curcumin / turmeric, ginger root, etc. I think it would be a good idea to eliminate brown rice and quinoa. Perhaps replace it with "foundational veggies." Just try to avoid ALL grains / seeds. You can also take glutamine and slippery elm to help heal the gut and see what happens.

Also, apologies if this was mentioned before, but are you in ketosis or are you're carbs too high still that your in glucose metabolism?

It might be that the quinoa and rice are just too carby at once and keep the cycle of inflammation going. Just a thought. As ST suggested, might want to trade them for a serving of green beans or a green salad.

 

[Gertrudes]

This is also discussed in The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living. It concludes,

...the ratio of your triglyceride to HDL-C (TG/HDL-C) is an effective surrogate for LDL particle size. Values of TG/HDL-C over 3.5 indicate that you probably have pattern B with a predominance of small LDL particles, and a ratio this high indicates there’s a good chance you may also have insulin resistance.

Thanks for that Megan. According to that fraction my numbers are good, below 1. But according to Chriss Kresser's fraction, total cholesterol/HDL, my numbers are high, at 3.9. He recommends below 3 to be on the safe side, or 2 for optimal.

Hi Gertrudes,

This remark caught my eye. Although a minor problem, there is a solution for that.

Found it, thank you

I've also been having some sleep issues where my sleep doesn't feel optimal. (snip) I usually go to bed sometime between 10 and 11PM (though have recently been staying up later and too late on occasion due to some recent life situation changes), often have the light on and computer on before then, but sleep in a completely dark room.

Foxx, could your sleeping problems be related to your recent life changes? Even if your sleep was already disturbed prior to those changes, the build up to them could have well disrupted your sleeping patterns.

Yeah, sounds like the way to go to me as well. It is really a ton of data what is already posted. But with a questionnaire/guidance, people can write something synthesized in one place and they will realize how far they have come. It will be a "writing to heal" exercise for all of us :)

I also think that the questionnaire is a great idea, and the least time consuming one.

 

[forge]

There is still a big caveat with this paleo diet needing serious research:

For those who cannot and would not and wish not smoke:

• Paleo humans didn't need to accomplish super-challenging mental tasks in an internet heavy environment.
• Paleo humans didn't need to understand white papers and solve highly demanding technical processes, see through complicated technical descriptions in many fields of today, understand machine programming processes, solve computer-electronics related logic puzzles
  

How many scientists and technology specialists needing high concentration task performance on creative achievements every day or week would be able to exist on paleo and manage high quality output compared to carbs-centered diet?

If a non-smoker has to and tries to rack the brain suddenly enormous resource requirements for the brain arise. In order to understand even advanced or extremely high tech processes the brain needs large amounts of fuel super fast. A smoker can do it maybe flooding the bloodstream with nicotine. But how the heck should a non-smoker accomplish in these super demanding cases??

 

[Laura]

Just a suggestion for those who seem to have transition problems that include tiredness, lack of energy, etc: don't forget D-ribose. It may be that some systems are so affected by epigenetics that moving back to fat metabolism is problematical and requires energy to bootstrap over the chasm. It may also be that stimulating detoxing by giving the liver work to do requires a lot of energy that is not yet available. So, again, D-ribose - a level teaspoon two or three times a day in a cup of your favorite tea - might be just the ticket?

 

[anart]

There is still a big caveat with this paleo diet needing serious research:

For those who cannot and would not and wish not smoke:

• Paleo humans didn't need to accomplish super-challenging mental tasks in an internet heavy environment.
• Paleo humans didn't need to understand white papers and solve highly demanding technical processes, see through complicated technical descriptions in many fields of today, understand machine programming processes, solve computer-electronics related logic puzzles
  

How many scientists and technology specialists needing high concentration task performance on creative achievements every day or week would be able to exist on paleo and manage high quality output compared to carbs-centered diet?

If a non-smoker has to and tries to rack the brain suddenly enormous resource requirements for the brain arise. In order to understand even advanced or extremely high tech processes the brain needs large amounts of fuel super fast. A smoker can do it maybe flooding the bloodstream with nicotine. But how the heck should a non-smoker accomplish in these super demanding cases??

forge, I think you're way off track here and - no - there is not "still a big caveat". I'm a non-smoker and once I went on the high fat, moderate protein diet my brain became super-charged. I think much faster and much clearer on this diet than I ever did with carbs and people have noted this across the board, whether they smoke or not. I don't smoke, but the brain benefits are more pronounced than the other physiological benefits, so I'm not sure where you get the idea that the paleo diet doesn't vastly improve cognition. The brain doesn't need "large amounts of fuel super-fast" on the paleo-diet - it runs constantly at a very high level due to the fat fuel it's using, as opposed to sugar that is a vastly inferior fuel.