"Life Without Bread"

[agni]

Hi All!

I am little bit battling with high fat diet. My liver or gallbladder does not seem to cooperate well. I fry meat in coconut oil, I eat about 1 lbs of meat a day, and take two spoons of coconut oil daily. I have come and go pains in the right side since April (presumable from having too much fats). Never had any trouble with the area before. If I take Milk Thistle, it seems to help a lot. Do you think liver/gallbladder cleanse is in place ? Any suggestions ? ( If it matters I am on skinny side, weight gain is difficult for me, always has been, and I am about 150-155lbs)

On a brighter side, joints pain is gone (uric acid?). And I quit coffee cold turkey :)

On a darker side, I broke the diet last week or so for couple of days (more carbs), and I really messed myself up because of that, had mental fog/fuziness like I've never seen before. So, not going to try this again.

Thank You!

 

[RedFox]

Hi Agni

I am slim like you, have difficulty gaining weight and use to get the pains in my right side when I ate fats.
This post in the "Sluggish" Liver issues thread may help.

Are you having a good digestive enzyme (with ox bile in) with your meals too (make sure its gluten/dairy free)?

My pain got so bad at one point I thought I may have gall stones....but an ultrasound showed my gall bladder to be completely empty (the pain persisted).

It may be related to a food allergy, candida or bacterial overgrowth, or a slightly ulcerated small intestine. I even wondered if perhaps the gut wasn't use to that much stomach acid/bile being used?

Hope that helps.

 

[monksgirl]

For the last seven days I ate a low-carb, high-fat high-protein diet.

Today I used up the last buckwheat I had and made a buckwheat fruit bread to experiment with carbs. I ate nearly 1 kg during one meal (after a lot of meat) and still didn't get that a satisfying effect I enjoyed so much during that week.
During the last week I could do without eating for almost the complete day after having a big, nice low-carb breakfast. I didn't think of eating, was satisfied and had my mind free to do other things. But the moment I went back eating cereal carbs my system got completely out of control and I am back eating non-stop.

It is almost the same with fruits, once I begin I can't stop anymore. It seems I have a problem with insulin reaction (hypoglycaemia). I also experience bloating and itchy skin always after eating high-glycemic foods - fruits or cereals.

So it's obvious I have to go low-carb again, mostly meat and vegetables. This new way of eating is so relieving, because all my life I never felt really satisfied after eating. I was already convinced this is how life is - a constant desire to eat, every new day based around this basic feeling with no moment free of the thought "What can I eat next?"

It's completely different with low-carb, I eat and like never before I am deeply satisfied and don't spend a thought on food for hours and hours.

The only problem was frequent nausea after to fatty meals. Apparently my liver isn't used to so much fat after one year of vegetarism and eating most fat-free meat after I hesitately stopped being a vegetarian a few month ago.

I get fat mostly through bacon, pork lard, eggs, avocados and fatty meat. But when eating the latter I get nauseated and have to vomit. However, I am scared of getting to much protein (protein toxicitiy), so I want to stay high-fat.

here's a new study out reinforcing the health benefits of low carb high protein- it prevents cancer, and can slow tumor growth if already present; www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/228497.php

I use pretty much only skinless chicken, salmon, and organic high omega eggs for protein , and liberally use olive, flax and coconut oils, skewing my fats towards plant based rather than animal based. This has maintained a good serum cholesterol profile and ratio where it used to bad. I try to stick to low glycemic veggies, with fruit as a treat or dessert. No dairy, no beans, no sugar or grains. I do occasionaly have a little basmati rice as I don't react to rice lectiins, and the basmati has a lower glycemic index. Also have the occasional buckwheat blueberry waffle with all-fruit jam, or snack on a handful of almonds.. I won't eat bacon or ham because of the nitrates and nitrites used in processing, and pork chops have always bothered me with a little nausea. Have eaten beef only three times since january. I have found lesser gastric distress if I reduce the amount of food eaten, and use enzymes. I don't use ox bile because of the bile salts metabolized to cholesterol, and mine used to be bad.

*edit by mod* fixed quote

 

[Gawan]

Is it enough to only additionally support the liver or are there other ways to support the adjustment?

Hi Stranger, you can also supplement with digestive enzymes, I remember reading somewhere on the forum that it was best to look for the ones with ox bile included in them. I have taken them in the past and it seemed to help.

I'm sorry to hear that you've been feeling so bad after eating fatty meats, getting to the point of having to vomit is definitely not nice.
You know, until about one year ago I could barely tolerate any fat apart from olive oil, anything even mildly fatty would make me sluggish, sleepy, and with the feeling of having something undigested for hours and hours in my stomach. Then I started the USD last August and the condition became worse, ANY fat that not olive oil would cause me serious skin reactions within an hour. It just seemed that I couldn't handle fat, I reported this in the Ultra Simple Diet thread as well. Well, I kept on the diet, I took several supplements including a good liver detox and digestive enzymes. After a couple of months I tested fats again with no reaction. I started to incorporate more and more fat and not only was I showing no reaction but my organism was digesting it very well.

Nowadays fat is the main component of my diet, I even snack on coconut oil spoons. So in my case I needed a couple of months to clean my body enough to "reset" it and start with a much, much better functioning digestive system. Maybe you also need a little bit of time to adjust, remember that you are changing years and years of entirely different digestive habits which have likely caused havoc. My suggestion would be to perhaps cut down on fats for now, include them but with moderation, incorporate digestive enzymes and clean your liver, and then gradually increase your fat intake again.

Unfortunately it is difficult to get oxbile/fel tauri in some Eruopean countries, or if, they have gluten or something else in it. Eventually try too, to get milk thistle tea (Mariendiestel-Früchtetee in German), so that the liver gets repaired.

And here is also an article about introducing low-carb diet: Tips & Tricks for Starting (or Restarting) Low- Carb Pt I

 

[Gertrudes]

Unfortunately it is difficult to get oxbile/fel tauri in some Eruopean countries, or if, they have gluten or something else in it. Eventually try too, to get milk thistle tea (Mariendiestel-Früchtetee in German), so that the liver gets repaired.

Yes, it's pretty difficult to get anything decent (without filers and additives) in Europe unfortunately. Even though I live in Europe I always order from the states because of that, which is also much cheaper. I usually use Iherb.com because of the great choice selection in which you can also see the ingredients contained in each product and because it takes 2 to 3 days for the product to arrive, so that is another alternative

And here is also an article about introducing low-carb diet: Tips & Tricks for Starting (or Restarting) Low- Carb Pt I

Thanks for the article Legolas, I also saved his blog on my bookmarks, I think it's worth to keep it.

 

[nicklebleu]

I have tried to curb carbs down well below the 72 grams per day, living on a similar diet like Stefansson, that is mainly fat and protein.

The one problem that I have had was stomach burning, even though I take additional hydrochloric acid tablets and milk-thistle.
If I add a bit of carbs to it - vegetables, herbs or salad - it doesn't affect me this way.
I know that I have a weak digestive system (being a blood group A) and haven't gone down the ox-bile path yet.
I am a bit astonished at that, because I always have been a "meat-eater" and I used to get bad reflux and stomach pains from carbs (like croissants etc.).

So now I have eased back a bit, still sitting comfortably below the 72 gram mark for carbs, but thought it might be interesting for others to know.

I will continue this way for a few months and will then retry to cut back with the carbs to see if there is a difference. Maybe I just need more time to adapt to this type of nutrition - I only have been on low-carbs for the last 3 months.

Oh, and forgot to ask ... has anyone experienced joint pain with coconut oil?

 

[RedFox]

I don't use ox bile because of the bile salts metabolized to cholesterol, and mine used to be bad.

You might want to check out The Cholesterol Myth that is Harming Your Health ;)

Oh, and forgot to ask ... has anyone experienced joint pain with coconut oil?

Its possible you are allergic to coconut oil and it is causing an immune reaction/inflammation in the joints. On an interesting note, the longer you are on this diet (the more your intestines heal), the more tolerant you become to things that may have caused allergies before it seems. Its possible its todo with leaky gut syndrome.

 

[StrangeCaptain]

I have tried to curb carbs down well below the 72 grams per day, living on a similar diet like Stefansson, that is mainly fat and protein.

The one problem that I have had was stomach burning

Is this with every meal or just certain times of day. I have this problem if I eat less than a couple of hours before going to bed.

 

[Gertrudes]

I have tried to curb carbs down well below the 72 grams per day, living on a similar diet like Stefansson, that is mainly fat and protein.

The one problem that I have had was stomach burning

Is this with every meal or just certain times of day. I have this problem if I eat less than a couple of hours before going to bed.

Dr. Lutz (author of Life without Bread) recommends to go easy on the diet particularly during the first couple of weeks. Considering that we are changing not only the fuel but also the way we have been processing it, it will likely take a while before full adaptation is achieved.
I don't know your age, but it is also mentioned in the book that people beyond 45 years should start somewhere between 8 to 10 bread units, which is equivalent to 96 to 120g of carbs per day, and then gradually decrease. Basically, the older the longer it will take to adapt.

I am below 45 and even though it is mentioned that younger people are likely to adapt within days or a few weeks, it took me more then a month, perhaps even 2 to adapt. I felt fatigued, with difficulty to concentrate, my legs felt incredibly heavy and I kept having leg cramps, something I had never had before. I'm usually very fit, but it got to a point that I was walking so slowly because I just couldn't walk faster that everybody, including older people with canes (!) was passing me by on the street. Since about 2 to 3 weeks my energy levels have just skyrocketed. I find myself with so much energy it's almost ridiculous, honestly.
Leg heaviness and cramps is totally gone, lethargy and difficulty to concentrate is gone, and my mind is sharper then ever.

Life without bread really brought A LOT of things home for me. I'm beginning to understand some bowel issues I've always had and that I've always considered normal, it also explains how with high consumption carbohydrates basically start to function as a laxative, instead of the very common view that carbs are healthy for the bowels. It seems that it is exactly the opposite, it promotes permanent constipation where you find yourself dependent on carbs (as a laxative) to have daily bowel movements. Once you transition to the diet constipation is expected initially as a withdrawal symptom from the carbs, much as one would expect from withdrawing from a drug. This is exactly what has been happening to me but that has been greatly helped by increasing probiotics.

So yes, all in all this diet (and this book) is having an extremely positive effect in my life. I've just finished it today and will read Fiber Menace next. Have been searching on the net for second opinions on the relationship between fiber and bowel health and it does seem that the popular "eat more fiber to help your bowels" might just be pure myth based, once again, on very poor science. Then the problem is that some of the things we were so used to do such as eating more carbs for more energy, eating more fiber for good bowel health and soon, seemed to work because, like taking a drug, they do work over a very short period of time. However, and a big however here, the long term effects of it are catastrophic, perpetuating and even causing the conditions that we are trying to cure by consuming those same products. It is a vicious cycle.

 

[Laurentien2]

The guys here tried the cream and had very bad stomach reactions, so I guess that is out.

Same here. I don't know if I just overdid it in quantity, but I drank 500mL of organic 35% cream yesterday and, although it was delicious, it sat like a rock in my stomach, not digesting. When I woke up this morning it felt like it was still there so I didn't eat until lunch when I actually got hungry. It might be the kind of thing you need to re-introduce slowly, but I don't know if I'm going to bother with another experiment.

Last week-end, I found organic cream with 45% fat in it and decided to give it a try. I bought a 500 ml container and had some on berries, maybe 4 or 5 table spoon. My daughter add some as well, maybe 2 tables spoons and waited to see if we get any reaction. I got a feeling like a bloating stomach for an hour or so but, by the middle of the evening my daughter had a rash appear at the troth and she felt some pain from it. So cream is out for her definitely and as for me, I kept taking some small portion every day since and my stomach seem to adjust to it. It was an experience only and I don't think that I will repeat it. If my daughter as such a strong reaction to it, it may well do something to me on the long term even if I don't get a strong reaction to it. I will play it safe and found fat somewhere else.

 

[Gawan]

Unfortunately it is difficult to get oxbile/fel tauri in some Eruopean countries, or if, they have gluten or something else in it. Eventually try too, to get milk thistle tea (Mariendiestel-Früchtetee in German), so that the liver gets repaired.

Yes, it's pretty difficult to get anything decent (without filers and additives) in Europe unfortunately. Even though I live in Europe I always order from the states because of that, which is also much cheaper. I usually use Iherb.com because of the great choice selection in which you can also see the ingredients contained in each product and because it takes 2 to 3 days for the product to arrive, so that is another alternative

I definitely need to go for some, cause I'm feeling also a little bit nauseated every morning and pretty weak on my legs and minor cramps. That means L-carnitin is also needed.

Regarding the weight: I gained about 2-4 kg already. When I check my weight table (I have one cause of my regular visits at a doctor) I weighted in the year 2009 about 63 kg. In the year 2010 about 64. In January 2011 66, in April 2011 70 kg and at the weekend about 68.

 

[anart]

here's a new study out reinforcing the health benefits of low carb high protein- it prevents cancer, and can slow tumor growth if already present; www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/228497.php

I use pretty much only skinless chicken, salmon, and organic high omega eggs for protein , and liberally use olive, flax and coconut oils, skewing my fats towards plant based rather than animal based. This has maintained a good serum cholesterol profile and ratio where it used to bad. I try to stick to low glycemic veggies, with fruit as a treat or dessert. No dairy, no beans, no sugar or grains. I do occasionaly have a little basmati rice as I don't react to rice lectiins, and the basmati has a lower glycemic index. Also have the occasional buckwheat blueberry waffle with all-fruit jam, or snack on a handful of almonds.. I won't eat bacon or ham because of the nitrates and nitrites used in processing, and pork chops have always bothered me with a little nausea. Have eaten beef only three times since january. I have found lesser gastric distress if I reduce the amount of food eaten, and use enzymes. I don't use ox bile because of the bile salts metabolized to cholesterol, and mine used to be bad.

*edit by mod* fixed quote

I see that RedFox addressed the cholesterol comment, which is important since pretty much everything we've been told about cholesteral is wrong. I also wanted to add that there is bacon and ham available without nitrates or nitrites. Most health food stores carry an ample selection.

 

[nicklebleu]

I have tried to curb carbs down well below the 72 grams per day, living on a similar diet like Stefansson, that is mainly fat and protein.

The one problem that I have had was stomach burning

Is this with every meal or just certain times of day. I have this problem if I eat less than a couple of hours before going to bed.

I have this problem also at lunchtime ...

I was ok with the diet around the 50 - 72 gram mark, but decided to go down further just to see what happens. Well you know the result. I am 50 and so will need longer than 3 months to adapt to even lower carbs i t seems. Not sure i f there is a benefit at all to radically reduce well below 50 gram, apart maybe from losing weight faster, which in my case doesn't seem to be the case anyway ... I have kept my weight constant no matter how many carbs I eat.

Otherwise no other problems at all - no cramps, no sluggishness, energy levels good.

 

[beetlemaniac]

I see that RedFox addressed the cholesterol comment, which is important since pretty much everything we've been told about cholesteral is wrong. I also wanted to add that there is bacon and ham available without nitrates or nitrites. Most health food stores carry an ample selection.

I also remember Laura saying it's possible to remove some of the nitrates by boiling the bacon in water. Sorry, I couldn't find a reference for that.

 

[Ollie]

I see that RedFox addressed the cholesterol comment, which is important since pretty much everything we've been told about cholesteral is wrong. I also wanted to add that there is bacon and ham available without nitrates or nitrites. Most health food stores carry an ample selection.

I also remember Laura saying it's possible to remove some of the nitrates by boiling the bacon in water. Sorry, I couldn't find a reference for that.

A lot of bacon that you can buy contains so much water, that when frying, you end up boiling it! And this bacon is the one that is usually containing nitrates and nitrides. It is best to source organically if you can.