"Life Without Bread"

[Laurentien2]

I sure do want to try some high fat cream and some high fat goat cheese! ;)

Hi Solar Mother,

Since apparently you are still in the process of getting on the diet in full, it might be best to hold off on testing dairy till you've been on it full bore for at least a year. Remember, the Chateau folk have been eating this way for nearly three years. It's pretty sure Laura would not have been able to tolerate the small amount of the foods she mentioned if she hadn't had all that time to allow her body to detox and heal. You may not have to put in that much time, but a year would allow for many beneficial changes. Remember that dairy (and gluten) can take six months to clear the system.
Another six months, at the least, to allow the body to repair the damage is not an unreasonable amount of time.

I completely agree with this. I don't think this 'experimentation' should be read as "oh good, cheese is back on the menu." It requires a lot of healing before you can get to the point of experimenting with these things again. Any leaky gut, candida or auto-immune issues will definitely be worsened if you introduce something like dairy prematurely. After eliminating all the evil stuff for a year or so AND being low carb for at least a few months, allowing the gut to heal and getting rid of candida, maybe the body will be ready to carefully reintroduce some old foods that were on the "no list".

I'd also say that those who were discussing what kind of creamer to put in their coffee earlier in the thread - coffee is definitely inflammatory; caffeine is a plant-derived irritant that defends the plant against predators (it just happens to give people a buzz). It's essentially an insecticide, although a natural one. If you're still drinking coffee, you still have an inflamed gut and probably an imbalance of bacteria (dysbiosis). I wouldn't dream of adding dairy back into a terrain like that. Until you're off coffee for a long time, a year or more, giving the gut time to heal, I'd stay away from other problem foods. Otherwise, you're probably looking at starting again at square one.

My 2 cents.

Solar mother, I started detoxing 2 years ago and followed a strict anti-candida diet since, eliminating gluten, caffeine, milk produce, alcohol and more. This experience with goat cheese was just a test, to see if I get any reaction from it, I won't add it to my diet until more research is gathered concerning the casein contain in cheese or it effect on a candida free guts. I was never goat cheese eater, never eat much cheese at all, and tested it just for possibly adding more fat to my diet.

Citation de: Laurentien le Juin 04, 2011, 07:34:37
Citation de: Laura le Juin 04, 2011, 06:57:20

I eat meat every morning as well Laura, homemade paleo-sausage or bacon or ham as well as blinis with duck fat and 1 or 2 eggs. I just did another batch of pemmican and eat it in between meal. I eat half a cup of granola made with dehydrated nut and date paste with half a cup of berries that all. I eat 3 meals of meat every day and add fat in most of them usually bacon fat but I guess I need to eat bigger portion. I will cut the cereal and eat an extra sausage or other meat for a wild and see if it make a difference.

You might want to actually count your carbs - get a good carb counter so you can get the feel of how many carbs are in any given item. Date paste is almost pure sugar.

I was surprised to learn how many carbs are in some things that I thought were innocuous, like a bit of apple juice.

I do count my carbs intake Laura and like you, was surprise more than once, especially potatoes. I eliminated all kind of fruit juice, only eat berry fruits usually in the morning with my cereal of which half a cup is equivalent to 1 BU. I have lowered my carbs to 6 or less BU per day now an even more since yesterday when I started replacing the granola by an extra portion of meat. I always had a fast metabolism and gaining weight was always more difficult than losing it. I guess that a lot as to do with the genetic of the body and, I don't feel bad about losing weight as long as my energy level is high and it is. I will continue to lower my carbs gradually replacing it with more fat and see what happen in the next few weeks.

 

[Mr.Anderson]

Laurentien, I realize that you are right about the cream and goat cheese...and, I have not acted on this as it is. Point(s) well taken!
;)

 

[Courageous Inmate Sort]

Courageous Inmate Sort , let's all keep in tough about our findings. I am thinking of the pork fat and maybe a little meat that may be trimmed off at the butchers (like the way a porkchop used to have a lot of fat,) buying that regularly and then trying out these ideas. Let me know what your grandmother says.

Hi SolarMother,

I talked to my grandmother yesterday and she confirmed that you have to fry it twice. Actually, nowadays she buys pre-fried pork rinds and use the extra lard that comes with it to fry it (again) at home. If there is not enough lard she uses common cooking oil (we already know this is bad for us, and I try to convince her of that too).

She also told me that the way the pig is killed/skinned affects the final result of the pork rinds. But she could not remember the details of this.

Let me know how your experiments with pork rinds work out.

Kind regards,

CIS

 

[forge]

Today i bought ~800gr fresh, ripe cherries,
_http://isteninovenyek.hu/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Cseresznye2.jpg
my all time favorite in the season (until the 72gr carbs diet) and planned to consume all in one sit. Few days ago i changed to xylitol, having no raw sugar anymore. The taste of the dark red cherries was surprisingly strong and they somehow felt improper, albeit memory of their taste was correct. Too sweet, too intense. I could only eat half of it and feel almost sick now. So much for old eating habits and bright moments of life in the past. Looks like a good-bye to fruits for me.

 

[Niall]

Today i bought ~800gr fresh, ripe cherries,
_http://isteninovenyek.hu/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Cseresznye2.jpg
my all time favorite in the season (until the 72gr carbs diet) and planned to consume all in one sit. Few days ago i changed to xylitol, having no raw sugar anymore. The taste of the dark red cherries was surprisingly strong and they somehow felt improper, albeit memory of their taste was correct. Too sweet, too intense. I could only eat half of it and feel almost sick now. So much for old eating habits and bright moments of life in the past. Looks like a good-bye to fruits for me.

But forge, what else did you expect after eating 400gr of cherries?!

FWIW, I ate a bowl of fruit salad (strawberries, blueberries and mango sorbet) last weekend and felt totally wired afterwards. Fruit has become an occasional delicacy for me.

 

[Stranger]

For the last seven days I ate a low-carb, high-fat high-protein diet.

Today I used up the last buckwheat I had and made a buckwheat fruit bread to experiment with carbs. I ate nearly 1 kg during one meal (after a lot of meat) and still didn't get that a satisfying effect I enjoyed so much during that week.
During the last week I could do without eating for almost the complete day after having a big, nice low-carb breakfast. I didn't think of eating, was satisfied and had my mind free to do other things. But the moment I went back eating cereal carbs my system got completely out of control and I am back eating non-stop.

It is almost the same with fruits, once I begin I can't stop anymore. It seems I have a problem with insulin reaction (hypoglycaemia). I also experience bloating and itchy skin always after eating high-glycemic foods - fruits or cereals.

So it's obvious I have to go low-carb again, mostly meat and vegetables. This new way of eating is so relieving, because all my life I never felt really satisfied after eating. I was already convinced this is how life is - a constant desire to eat, every new day based around this basic feeling with no moment free of the thought "What can I eat next?"

It's completely different with low-carb, I eat and like never before I am deeply satisfied and don't spend a thought on food for hours and hours.

The only problem was frequent nausea after to fatty meals. Apparently my liver isn't used to so much fat after one year of vegetarism and eating most fat-free meat after I hesitately stopped being a vegetarian a few month ago.

I get fat mostly through bacon, pork lard, eggs, avocados and fatty meat. But when eating the latter I get nauseated and have to vomit. However, I am scared of getting to much protein (protein toxicitiy), so I want to stay high-fat.

 

[curious_richard]

... But the moment I went back eating cereal carbs my system got completely out of control and I am back eating non-stop.
...
I was already convinced this is how life is - a constant desire to eat, every new day based around this basic feeling with no moment free of the thought "What can I eat next?"

After learning so much lately, it seems to me that eating carbs is a message to the body that says, "It is harvest time! Winter is near! Save that food (as fat) for Winter!"

 

[Niall]

I get fat mostly through bacon, pork lard, eggs, avocados and fatty meat. But when eating the latter I get nauseated and have to vomit. However, I am scared of getting to much protein (protein toxicitiy), so I want to stay high-fat.

Stranger, are you saying that you have to throw up every time you eat high-fat meat?

That doesn't sound good at all. You may need to slow down your adjustment to a high-fat, high-protein diet.

 

[Stranger]

... But the moment I went back eating cereal carbs my system got completely out of control and I am back eating non-stop.
...
I was already convinced this is how life is - a constant desire to eat, every new day based around this basic feeling with no moment free of the thought "What can I eat next?"

After learning so much lately, it seems to me that eating carbs is a message to the body that says, "It is harvest time! Winter is near! Save that food (as fat) for Winter!"

Yeah, for the most. It seems that I am one of the few who can't gain weight on a high-carbohydrate diet. Like Lutz described, there are some who actually have problems gaining weight due to a low blood sugar reaction to glucose. I always had symptoms of hypoglycaemia (feeling hungry, shakiness, anxiety, fast pulse, dizziness, circulatory problems, headaches, low blood pressure), and it's most likely that the carbs are to blame. The blood sugar drops to fast due to too much insulin and the hunger is back.

I get fat mostly through bacon, pork lard, eggs, avocados and fatty meat. But when eating the latter I get nauseated and have to vomit. However, I am scared of getting to much protein (protein toxicitiy), so I want to stay high-fat.

Stranger, are you saying that you have to throw up every time you eat high-fat meat?

That doesn't sound good at all. You may need to slow down your adjustment to a high-fat, high-protein diet.

Yes, everytime I ate high fat meat I got nauseated. It happend a few times during the last week, sometimes it was just nausea, sometimes with vomitting.

You are right, that doesn't sound good.

I will cut back on fat, eat more vegetables (6-10 bread units) and introduce more fat slowly. During the week I didn't know whether to suspect the fat or the protein, but my body felt like "It's definitely the fat".

Is it enough to only additionally support the liver or are there other ways to support the adjustment?

 

[Gertrudes]

Is it enough to only additionally support the liver or are there other ways to support the adjustment?

Hi Stranger, you can also supplement with digestive enzymes, I remember reading somewhere on the forum that it was best to look for the ones with ox bile included in them. I have taken them in the past and it seemed to help.

I'm sorry to hear that you've been feeling so bad after eating fatty meats, getting to the point of having to vomit is definitely not nice.
You know, until about one year ago I could barely tolerate any fat apart from olive oil, anything even mildly fatty would make me sluggish, sleepy, and with the feeling of having something undigested for hours and hours in my stomach. Then I started the USD last August and the condition became worse, ANY fat that not olive oil would cause me serious skin reactions within an hour. It just seemed that I couldn't handle fat, I reported this in the Ultra Simple Diet thread as well. Well, I kept on the diet, I took several supplements including a good liver detox and digestive enzymes. After a couple of months I tested fats again with no reaction. I started to incorporate more and more fat and not only was I showing no reaction but my organism was digesting it very well.

Nowadays fat is the main component of my diet, I even snack on coconut oil spoons. So in my case I needed a couple of months to clean my body enough to "reset" it and start with a much, much better functioning digestive system. Maybe you also need a little bit of time to adjust, remember that you are changing years and years of entirely different digestive habits which have likely caused havoc. My suggestion would be to perhaps cut down on fats for now, include them but with moderation, incorporate digestive enzymes and clean your liver, and then gradually increase your fat intake again.

 

[annp]

Yes, everytime I ate high fat meat I got nauseated. It happend a few times during the last week, sometimes it was just nausea, sometimes with vomitting.

You are right, that doesn't sound good.

I will cut back on fat, eat more vegetables (6-10 bread units) and introduce more fat slowly. During the week I didn't know whether to suspect the fat or the protein, but my body felt like "It's definitely the fat".

Is it enough to only additionally support the liver or are there other ways to support the adjustment?

Stranger,

I too used to get nauseated from too much fat. For most of my life, I had a very low tolerance for fat, so ate primarily carbs and as a result, had low blood sugar, low blood pressure and was anemic. I think what helped me most was taking the enzymes recommended here, as well as a good probiotic and milk thistle (for the liver). The other thing that I believe helps is detoxing the whole body. Do you have a FIR sauna or have you done any other methods of detoxification?

I think just cleaning out as many toxins as you can from the body will help the liver as well. But here too - it's good to go slowly - detoxification can make you feel really sluggish and awful too, so give yourself some time. It has been a long slow process, but has made a huge difference for me - having gone from nausea at the least amount of fat - to gorging on bacon!!

 

[Stranger]

Hi Gertrudes,

Stranger,

I too used to get nauseated from too much fat. For most of my life, I had a very low tolerance for fat, so ate primarily carbs and as a result, had low blood sugar, low blood pressure and was anemic. I think what helped me most was taking the enzymes recommended here, as well as a good probiotic and milk thistle (for the liver). The other thing that I believe helps is detoxing the whole body. Do you have a FIR sauna or have you done any other methods of detoxification?

I think just cleaning out as many toxins as you can from the body will help the liver as well. But here too - it's good to go slowly - detoxification can make you feel really sluggish and awful too, so give yourself some time. It has been a long slow process, but has made a huge difference for me - having gone from nausea at the least amount of fat - to gorging on bacon!!

Good to hear I am not alone with this issue.

I have a FIR Sauna, and started (re-)using it two weeks ago.

Thinking about what you and Gertrudes wrote I think I would benefit if I use a detox and supplement protocol described in the recommended books, start the elimination diet and go low carb at the same time and introduce more fats gradually.

Or is it not helpful to mix the elimination diet with low-carb? Then it would be better to do the elimination diet first and after a few month switch to low-carb after I have reintroduced all foods. This question is especially adressed to those who did both diets (and supplementation) and maybe know how people can go on if they didn't have done the elimination and low-carb yet.

 

[Gertrudes]

Or is it not helpful to mix the elimination diet with low-carb?

I don't think that the elimination diet and low carb are incompatible, in fact, it seems that they can merge well together. When the modified version of the USD was posted we were still not completely aware of how such a low carb diet high in fats could positively affect our health, much research on fat and carbohydrates as been done since. With that in mind, perhaps you can do an elimination diet including more meat then initially suggested in the USD and less veggies? That way it will be a low carb diet where you eliminate some veggies, carbs, meats and and fats (it's good to test meat and different fat types ad well) and gradually start reintroducing each but maintaining the low carb higher fat/protein equation. Probably it is best not to overwhelm your body by doing it too drastically as you have already noticed some negative effects, but a gradual decrease of carbs and all foods that not meat might be more tolerable before you start full on on the diet.
I'm also no longer sure of the importance of the Ultra Broth considering all that we have been finding about vegetables.
That's my take on it, though others might think differently.

Also, you might try cooking your meals in different ways. Just to give you an idea, so far I've had no problem with any meat, but until a couple of months ago I had gas and what seemed to be slow digestion when the meat was roasted. That's also gone, I can now digest roasted meat very well (fortunately!).

 

[Stranger]

Thanks for your input. :)

[quote author=Gertrudes]With that in mind, perhaps you can do an elimination diet including more meat then initially suggested in the USD and less veggies?[/quote]

I think especially less fruits and maybe no cereals at all and almost completely meat and some veggies?

Anyway, I will figure this out for me during the next weeks and than get started. Good to know that both the elimination and low carb diet can work together. Would be great to hear what others have to say about this.

In general it would be helpful to work on a new version of the USD in the light of the new research on carbs. I think Megan already suggested something like this. Otherwise there would be a big gap between two important books in the recommended diet/health section.

 

[Gertrudes]

I think especially less fruits and maybe no cereals at all and almost completely meat and some veggies?

Sounds good to me! And, of course, no gluten, dairy, sugar, caffeine, and nighshades (you can reintroduce the nightshades afterwords and test them).

In general it would be helpful to work on a new version of the USD in the light of the new research on carbs. I think Megan already suggested something like this. Otherwise there would be a big gap between two important books in the recommended diet/health section.

Yeh, I think that will probably be inevitable. Although it might be a good idea to check how members are doing in general with a low carb high fat diet, how everyone has handled their specific problems in adapting to the diet so that a new elimination diet stems from the data and experience of many of us who have been on the diet for a reasonable period of time. Just my thoughts on it.