"Life Without Bread"

dant said:
Ugh... organs!? For me, that would be difficult, bugs...
even so, it may come to that when in a pinch... ;)

Don't forget wild plants, sometimes A.K.A. "weeds."

The more of it you say "no" to, the more you can end up cutting yourself off from the natural world. The "ugh" factor is conditioning to keep us from consuming our natural diet. So have a diet soda and a snack in a plastic wrapper and think it over. There's nothing nasty about those, is there?
 
dant said:
Ugh... organs!? For me, that would be difficult, bugs...
even so, it may come to that when in a pinch... ;)

You might want to check out the book Deep Nutrition from the recommended books list. The authors spend some time on the health benefits of organ meats. I never used to eat most of them either, but once you learn how to cook them, they ain't half bad.
 
Look, dant, this is what I ate a few days back :ninja:

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Pig stomach and intestines. The intestines are usually very soft and tender, but it could go either way with the stomachs. I had to do a lot of earnest chewing. Delicious.

Of course, they have to be cleaned out well or they'll smell. I think my grandma uses salt to clean them. The ones in the picture were from a restaurant (and I use that term loosely).

I don't like eating well-done muscle meats but I could go on eating organ meats forever.

In the wild On Animal Planet, carnivores go for the organs/mouth/bones and muscle meat is usually one of the last things they'd eat, if I'm not mistaken.
 
I never doubted that organs are GOOD for you!

And no to junk, GMO, processed, non-organic, grains,
legumes, sugar, and all of that. I am on meat (grass
fed), bone broth, and fats, and keep my carbs very low
- I have yet to get into keto though. I mentioned in earlier
posting that I lost 40 lbs and now at 200lbs at 6' and still
working on it.

My palate is quite limited, but then again, if the food
supply were to suddenly run out or become too expensive,
then on to organs, bugs, grubs, weeds, or anything edible
would have to do and knowledge of what is edible in the
wild would come in handy.
 
Muxel,

That may not be the most effective way to encourage people to consume organ meats (was encouraging them even what you had in mind?). Then again, a revolting sight to me would be a photo of a diet soda and a snack in a plastic wrapper. That turns me away without even reading the ingredient list.
 
Muxel said:
Look, dant, this is what I ate a few days back :ninja:
<snip!>

OoooooOOOOOoooohhhh!

Yaaaah! It's an acquired taste to say the least!
I'd have to pinch my nose at first and slowly work
my way through it!!!!

I don't think my teeth would last long
should I attempt to gnaw the bones
like an animal.... :(
 
Megan said:
Muxel,

That may not be the most effective way to encourage people to consume organ meats (was encouraging them even what you had in mind?). Then again, a revolting sight to me would be a photo of a diet soda and a snack in a plastic wrapper. That turns me away without even reading the ingredient list.

It is of no offence to me at all! At least it is a c h a l l a n g e!!! BRING IT ON!!! ;)
 
dant said:
I never doubted that organs are GOOD for you!

And no to junk, GMO, processed, non-organic, grains,
legumes, sugar, and all of that. I am on meat (grass
fed), bone broth, and fats, and keep my carbs very low
- I have yet to get into keto though. I mentioned in earlier
posting that I lost 40 lbs and now at 200lbs at 6' and still
working on it.

I think I have asked this question before, and apologies if it was to you, but are you sure you aren't in ketosis? What is your carbohydrate intake per day on average (and is it fairly consistent)? Below about 50 g/d it would be hard not to be in ketosis whether it seems like it or not, and ketostix don't really tell you if you are in ketosis or not. Even a BOHB meter isn't ideal, although it might offer better clues than the sticks.

If your carbs are above 70 g/d then sure, you might not be in ketosis but then you would not be "very low" either, although some people use those words to mean < 100 or even < 150, rendering them pretty much meaningless. I would call that range "low," and I would call anything < 50 "very low."

My palate is quite limited, but then again, if the food
supply were to suddenly run out or become too expensive,
then on to organs, bugs, grubs, weeds, or anything edible
would have to do and knowledge of what is edible in the
wild would come in handy.

If you start looking at those foods as where the real nutrition is, rather than as some sort of disaster-scenario fall-back, that might help you. You can make a significant difference by just adding liver to your diet, once or twice a week, no bugs or weeds required.

Your palate is trained to be limited the way it is -- it is not inherently limited. (How do I know? I don't. But still, I do. And yours sounds a lot like mine.) You can retrain it.
 
dant said:
...I don't think my teeth would last long
should I attempt to gnaw the bones
like an animal.... :(

Humans have developed other ways of extracting nutrients. Cooking, for instance.
 
Megan said:
dant said:
...I don't think my teeth would last long
should I attempt to gnaw the bones
like an animal.... :(

Humans have developed other ways of extracting nutrients. Cooking, for instance.

Of course, and bone broth! Yum!!!
But I don't eat DEM BONES :D
 
Megan said:
dant said:
I never doubted that organs are GOOD for you!

And no to junk, GMO, processed, non-organic, grains,
legumes, sugar, and all of that. I am on meat (grass
fed), bone broth, and fats, and keep my carbs very low
- I have yet to get into keto though. I mentioned in earlier
posting that I lost 40 lbs and now at 200lbs at 6' and still
working on it.

I think I have asked this question before, and apologies if it was to you, but are you sure you aren't in ketosis? What is your carbohydrate intake per day on average (and is it fairly consistent)? Below about 50 g/d it would be hard not to be in ketosis whether it seems like it or not, and ketostix don't really tell you if you are in ketosis or not. Even a BOHB meter isn't ideal, although it might offer better clues than the sticks.

If your carbs are above 70 g/d then sure, you might not be in ketosis but then you would not be "very low" either, although some people use those words to mean < 100 or even < 150, rendering them pretty much meaningless. I would call that range "low," and I would call anything < 50 "very low."

It could also be that he isn't eating enough fat and is eating too much protein. Just a thought.
 
I try to keep my protein (fatty beef, pork) level at 5-6 oz per day
and to keep carbs less than 50g. It could very well be that I am
not getting enough fat, that could be it. I have no idea then, if
I am or am not in ketosis since I have not directly measured it.

I do however store all of my fats from cooking in a clean steel
can, but I have yet to figure out how to make use of it, so that
could be my biggest problem right now, how to make it palatable
and how much to eat it. I thought about taking a dollup of the
saved fats, and put it into water, heat it up, add pepper & salt
and drink it up. One other question I have is, how long can I
keep this fat in the can, does it have a shelf life, if so, how long?

I have occasionally, had bone broth, but probably not that often
so this could be upped more...
 
dant said:
I try to keep my protein (fatty beef, pork) level at 5-6 oz per day
and to keep carbs less than 50g. It could very well be that I am
not getting enough fat, that could be it. I have no idea then, if
I am or am not in ketosis since I have not directly measured it.

That's the point. You are likely to be in ketosis. There's no dashboard indicator light, necessarily, that comes on when you reach it, although if you are able to skip meals without problems (and you had trouble doing that before), it might offer a clue. I can't tell any difference day to day, other than that and the absence now of hypoglycemia and of weight control issues.

You don't need vast amounts of fat, either, and an imbalance to the high side of saturated fat can actually create problems. Unnaturally high levels of long-chain saturated fats in the diet can help undesirable stuff to "leak" across internal barriers. I haven't kept track of the details, but the takeaway is don't go to extremes to try to "push" your way into health.

Fat quality is more important. Toxic fat is one of the central health problems in the world today. The first choice is naturally occurring fat from animals raised in their natural setting eating the foods for which they are evolutionarily adapted. But since much of the good stuff comes from organ meats that can be hard to obtain for some people, and from the associated fat that is so shunned by the "health (un)conscious" public and therefore often removed during butchering, and since our world is so out of whack anyway, adding high-quality cooking fat is a good idea. Sources include duck fat (preferably from pastured ducks), high-quality (expensive, probably) ghee, lard (especially from pastured pork -- not readily available to me) and organic coconut oil, as well as pasture butter (but it's not for cooking at higher temperatures; use ghee instead).

I do however store all of my fats from cooking in a clean steel
can, but I have yet to figure out how to make use of it, so that
could be my biggest problem right now, how to make it palatable
and how much to eat it. I thought about taking a dollup of the
saved fats, and put it into water, heat it up, add pepper & salt
and drink it up. One other question I have is, how long can I
keep this fat in the can, does it have a shelf life, if so, how long?

I have been known to store it in a glass jar on the kitchen counter, in emulation of my grandmother, but unlike my grandmother I tend, more often than not, to pour it back into my food, mix it up, and eat everything!

Cooking grease should be good for one reuse. Beyond that, watch out. I wouldn't let it set for more than a week and I would cover it even if my grandmother didn't (I can't remember). Refrigeration is probably not such a good idea, though.

Definitely mix the fat with your other foods, and if possible let your appetite and taste tell you how much to consume. I have been making very low carb raw veggy salads lately (in part trying to include more bacteria with my meals!!!), to which I often add cooked ground beef or buffalo. I top with oil (olive, if I can't find anything better which I often can't at Hole-in-the-shelf Foods -- good fats are in short supply) and organic apple cider vinegar, but I also add the fat from the meat, if any (buffalo is very lean) and the cooking fat and toss it well. Veggies taste SO much better that way!

(Aside: I like the way Amy Myers (a functional medicine MD in Austin, Texas and a podcaster) describes her veggy handling -- throw them on the belt bare at the store, and never wash them. I still bag them at the store, in cloth mesh bags, but once it's home I go for unwashed. If I die of E. Coli O157:H7, you'll know why. But that's life.)

There is cooking and there is cooking. I cook on the lowest possible flame, usually with the burner turned all the way down, and covered to keep moisture and nutrients from evaporating away. The cycle of evaporation, condensation, and dripping back into the food is important. (See Deep Nutrition.) The lower temperature also limits damage to nutrients and to cooking fats and oils. Needless to say, this is not the prevailing public concept about cooking in a frying pan.

I have occasionally, had bone broth, but probably not that often
so this could be upped more...

Bone broth is good if you are not having major digestive issues. I have such issues, however, and I have put my bone broth making on hold for now (along with eating sauerkraut), in part due to the higher histamine content and especially due to the advice of a number of paleo-oriented health advocates. It's not ruled out; it's just not a staple for me right now. I settle instead for the occasional lacto-fermented pickle.

It turns out that with low stomach acid (as I have), nutrient absorption might be an issue. Bone broth perhaps could help by increasing the volume of nutrients but for me, with both digestive/GI symptoms and low stomach acid (which are facets of the same thing), fixing those first seems to be the key.
 
After I cook pastured organic bacon or pork sausage, I pour the grease into a glass cup and store it in the refrigerator. When I cook anything else, like eggs, I use a spoonful of the grease.

Refrigerating the grease is bad?
 

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