"Life Without Bread"
- Thread starter Ellipse
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(should maybe go in a different thread)
I was just watching a doco about traditional cheese making in the massif central in France where they mentioned that most cheese is now made from pasteurized milk in factories some still use traditional raw milk and natural rennet
that go me thinking on how we,as humans,once knew how to ''pre-digest'' those foods that are not fat and meat,since we don't have the bacteria for carbs in our gut
people used to ferment( rot,break down by bacteria,etc.) stuff ''outside the body'' before consumption...even the origin of the word bread being related to brew and the earliest beer was more or less a unfiltered fermented sprouted and roasted barley soup that was drunk at room temperature through a straw...Germans still call beer liquid bread :P
I was just watching a doco about traditional cheese making in the massif central in France where they mentioned that most cheese is now made from pasteurized milk in factories some still use traditional raw milk and natural rennet
that go me thinking on how we,as humans,once knew how to ''pre-digest'' those foods that are not fat and meat,since we don't have the bacteria for carbs in our gut
people used to ferment( rot,break down by bacteria,etc.) stuff ''outside the body'' before consumption...even the origin of the word bread being related to brew and the earliest beer was more or less a unfiltered fermented sprouted and roasted barley soup that was drunk at room temperature through a straw...Germans still call beer liquid bread :P
I've been wondering what happens if you're in ketosis and then go over 72 carbs? Is it like gluten where it sets you all the way back and you have to readjust? Or does your body just get out of whack for a brief period, before returning to its normal keotsis metabolism?
I was asking because I have some shortbread and measured out very carefully the carbs. I can only have a piece the size of a credit card and about 2 cm high. :P
I was asking because I have some shortbread and measured out very carefully the carbs. I can only have a piece the size of a credit card and about 2 cm high. :P
TOTEM36
Jedi
Hi everybody,
I wanted to get your opinions. (today I tried talking to my delicatessan but it was a bit like talking to a robot.)
Anyway, I have been trying to find a convenient breakfast because of my busy job and i would love to have something simple like just a couple of slices of ham in the morning -although i have been aware of this 'nitrates' issue in ham.
But, i just became aware that here in Australia there is a brand of deli hams called 'HANS', which advertise:
all natural ingredients, including -gluten free, no artficial colours or flavouring, reduced salt and naturally occuring nitrates.
I think the following list of ingredients probably sound reasonable for a couple of slices of ham ??
I assume there are no added nitrates.
Now apart from the starch and probably minimal sugar, do these ingredients seem ok on the whole??
Pork (94%), Water, Salt, Sugar, Starch (Potato), Natural Extracts (Vegetables, Herbs and Fruit), Maltodextrin, Natural Wood Smoke. Contains Naturally-Occurring Nitrites.
Sodium: 1420mg / 100g
I wanted to get your opinions. (today I tried talking to my delicatessan but it was a bit like talking to a robot.)
Anyway, I have been trying to find a convenient breakfast because of my busy job and i would love to have something simple like just a couple of slices of ham in the morning -although i have been aware of this 'nitrates' issue in ham.
But, i just became aware that here in Australia there is a brand of deli hams called 'HANS', which advertise:
all natural ingredients, including -gluten free, no artficial colours or flavouring, reduced salt and naturally occuring nitrates.
I think the following list of ingredients probably sound reasonable for a couple of slices of ham ??
I assume there are no added nitrates.
Now apart from the starch and probably minimal sugar, do these ingredients seem ok on the whole??
Pork (94%), Water, Salt, Sugar, Starch (Potato), Natural Extracts (Vegetables, Herbs and Fruit), Maltodextrin, Natural Wood Smoke. Contains Naturally-Occurring Nitrites.
Sodium: 1420mg / 100g
EmeraldHope
The Living Force
3D Student said:
When I did the Atkins diet years ago, if you knocked yourself out of ketosis then it took about 3- 5 days average to get back to it. We used keto sticks to test urine. These are used by diabetics. During the later phases of the diet when carbs were slowly added back in, one would test the urine daily until ketosis no longer registered- then one would know exactly how many carbs they could have without getting knocked out of ketosis. They are sold in all drugstores. This maybe a more exact way of measuring that just 72 carbs for each and every person. On the forum I used to belong to with others doing Atkins, the amount of carbs one could have daily without being knocked out of ketosis varied from less than 30 to over 100.
EmeraldHope said:
Ketonbodies are always produced when you burn fat - even if you eat carbs as well. The difference is the amount that is excreted in the urine. So "ketosis" usually is referred to when the Ketositx urin dipstick turns purple, which means that there is a higher amount of acetone present in the urine than usual.
It is not really necessary to be in ketosis all the time. To stay below 72 g of carbs doesn't automatically mean, that you will be in ketosis. While I think that it is not harmful to be in ketosis (unlike some medical ressources might tell you) I don't think there is a particular advantage to it - maybe except of a faster weight loss in some.
nicklebleu said:
Thanks for the info EmeraldHope and nickelbleu, that's interesting. I think I'd like to know my actual limit, because if I'm one of those lower numbers I may not be in it.
And as to the advantage of ketosis, isn't that what this thread is all about? That it's a better metabolism and you don't need carbs?
I had a setback a few days ago when I went back to eating too much fruit and also veggies. The interesting thing was that I instantly sensed my body's negative response to them: my thinking deteriorated, negative introject got really strong again, and it didn't satisfy my body/hunger. Just have to repeat this: my entire body chemistry deteriorated instantly! 
Yes, reading about it is one thing, experiencing it in real time is another.
Getting off fruit has turned out to be a major hurdle for me, but: as soon as I'm only on meat and e.g. some kohlrabis, my energy levels are stable, no highs, no downs; and I don't have to eat so much anymore. So, meat is an extraordinary help in getting off cravings - the rest is nothing else but applying one's will and not falling back into old habits.
Yes, reading about it is one thing, experiencing it in real time is another.Getting off fruit has turned out to be a major hurdle for me, but: as soon as I'm only on meat and e.g. some kohlrabis, my energy levels are stable, no highs, no downs; and I don't have to eat so much anymore. So, meat is an extraordinary help in getting off cravings - the rest is nothing else but applying one's will and not falling back into old habits.
Thor
Jedi Council Member
Wow, thanks to all for an extremely interesting thread. I’ve been off the Forum for about half a year due to a concussion but am slowly able to read again and glad I picked this thread. Things do move fast and just as I was feeling like I had adjusted to the dietary standards it now seems like there’s light years to go. As I still can’t read for very long I’ve only read the last five pages of this thread so apologies if my questions have been covered before.
I am just about to start the high-fat low-carb diet and must say that it’ll be difficult to stop eating fruit. My morning shake that I’ve had daily contains one banana, a handful of each strawberries, blueberries and raspberries along with an orange. Total carb consumption: around 160 g. Bummer. I’m also really hoping to gain some weight. I’m 202 cm and weigh 72 kilos which is hardly pudgy.
It’s very interesting what is written about buckwheat. It has been a life saver for me and I’ve been using it for delicious crunchy BW rolls and BW pancakes. However, the other day I tried making some BW milk for my rooibos chai. I had soaked the organic BW for 12 hours and blended it according to the only recipe for BW milk I’ve been able to find on the internet (it’s also reference elsewhere on the Forum). To taste it I drank about half a glass. It was delicious (I had also added a couple of dates to sweeten) and creamy in the texture. However, after about three minutes I was hit with an incredible amount of brain fog. I literally had to sit down and stare into open space for about five minutes, wondering what had hit me. The brain fog lasted for about two hours or so. I wonder if the reaction was due the high concentration or if I did not rinse it properly, although I continued until the water was completely clear. Consequently, I did some more research on BW and according to the D’Adamo website BW is only beneficial to blood type A, whereas it should be avoided for blood type B and AB and non-secretor type O’s due to lectin or other agglutinin content.
I also want to share an interesting experience I had the other day. I had a full breakfast consisting of 250 g organic bacon, two large eggs, two onions caramelized in the bacon fat and a BW roll to sop up the yolk. I was feeling energized and relaxed at the same time. Then I had my morning shake as described above, with banana, kiwi, blueberries, strawberries, raspberries and an orange. About halfway through it (the entire shake is one liter) I started to feel tired. I finished the shake and for the rest of the day I was extremely tired. It was as if all the positive energy that had been mobilized by the fat was being neutralized by the carbs in the shake. At the time I hadn’t read this thread so I just thought I had eaten too much by filling one liter of shake into my stomach but now, my hypothesis is that the carbs are to blame.
What is the take on number of meals? If I eat a big breakfast I am not hungry until 6 or 7 pm. Is it OK to have just two meals a day or should I adjust the amounts so that I can fit in three smaller meals? Elsewhere, many people claim that the regularity of the meals is important but with everything that has come to light on this Forum I don’t trust any of the conventional wisdoms any more.
Edit: Forgot to ask about recommendations for how much to eat for dinner and how late to eat it. Is the breakfast like a king ... dinner like a pauper still recommended or should be the more meat and fat the better?
I am just about to start the high-fat low-carb diet and must say that it’ll be difficult to stop eating fruit. My morning shake that I’ve had daily contains one banana, a handful of each strawberries, blueberries and raspberries along with an orange. Total carb consumption: around 160 g. Bummer. I’m also really hoping to gain some weight. I’m 202 cm and weigh 72 kilos which is hardly pudgy.
It’s very interesting what is written about buckwheat. It has been a life saver for me and I’ve been using it for delicious crunchy BW rolls and BW pancakes. However, the other day I tried making some BW milk for my rooibos chai. I had soaked the organic BW for 12 hours and blended it according to the only recipe for BW milk I’ve been able to find on the internet (it’s also reference elsewhere on the Forum). To taste it I drank about half a glass. It was delicious (I had also added a couple of dates to sweeten) and creamy in the texture. However, after about three minutes I was hit with an incredible amount of brain fog. I literally had to sit down and stare into open space for about five minutes, wondering what had hit me. The brain fog lasted for about two hours or so. I wonder if the reaction was due the high concentration or if I did not rinse it properly, although I continued until the water was completely clear. Consequently, I did some more research on BW and according to the D’Adamo website BW is only beneficial to blood type A, whereas it should be avoided for blood type B and AB and non-secretor type O’s due to lectin or other agglutinin content.
I also want to share an interesting experience I had the other day. I had a full breakfast consisting of 250 g organic bacon, two large eggs, two onions caramelized in the bacon fat and a BW roll to sop up the yolk. I was feeling energized and relaxed at the same time. Then I had my morning shake as described above, with banana, kiwi, blueberries, strawberries, raspberries and an orange. About halfway through it (the entire shake is one liter) I started to feel tired. I finished the shake and for the rest of the day I was extremely tired. It was as if all the positive energy that had been mobilized by the fat was being neutralized by the carbs in the shake. At the time I hadn’t read this thread so I just thought I had eaten too much by filling one liter of shake into my stomach but now, my hypothesis is that the carbs are to blame.
What is the take on number of meals? If I eat a big breakfast I am not hungry until 6 or 7 pm. Is it OK to have just two meals a day or should I adjust the amounts so that I can fit in three smaller meals? Elsewhere, many people claim that the regularity of the meals is important but with everything that has come to light on this Forum I don’t trust any of the conventional wisdoms any more.
Edit: Forgot to ask about recommendations for how much to eat for dinner and how late to eat it. Is the breakfast like a king ... dinner like a pauper still recommended or should be the more meat and fat the better?
Enaid said:I had a setback a few days ago when I went back to eating too much fruit and also veggies. The interesting thing was that I instantly sensed my body's negative response to them: my thinking deteriorated, negative introject got really strong again, and it didn't satisfy my body/hunger. Just have to repeat this: my entire body chemistry deteriorated instantly!
Getting off fruit has turned out to be a major hurdle for me, but: as soon as I'm only on meat and e.g. some kohlrabis, my energy levels are stable, no highs, no downs; and I don't have to eat so much anymore. So, meat is an extraordinary help in getting off cravings - the rest is nothing else but applying one's will and not falling back into old habits.
Interesting Enaid you experienced this as I was wondering what would happen if I all of a sudden started eating a bunch of fruit and veggies again. I have kept my carbs below 70-100g/day from April 15 to about June 15 this year, and after June 15th my carb intake is even lower, often below 10g/day. My body has felt satisfied and I do not crave (just chocolate which I've stated before, and I just take it regularly in moderation :) )
One big thing I've noticed on this diet I can take pressure quite a bit better, as I don't have that almost debilitating irritation that comes from a carb-sugar-glucose based diet when hungry. Of course pipe breathing and EE has helped in that department too. In the past, when I was hungry, I was ill-tempered, cranky and lost my nerve easily - hunger or craving for food now has a minimal effect on my behavior and mood as I really don't experience that piercing 'crave-hunger' that I used to get.
I don't think I will try it out for myself what you did Enaid, although I am all for experimenting, and just keep eating my animal protein and animal/saturated fat that keeps me satisfied (I don't feel like I am missing out on anything and I have no longing or desire for the other stuff anymore, at least not yet).
Jefferson
