"Life Without Bread"

[seek10]

After I started pure low carb and high fat diet , initially I had constipation which dissipated with salt water and vitamin C. but the stool amount is so small , I thought I still have constipation. In the vegetarian Myth , author says there is little wastage in the meat diet. But I am some what surprised at how small the stool was. Did any body observed this ?. I felt very energetic during this time, though.

Chronic malnutrition is a major issue for me during my childhood and adult years and later years on to carb diet. so I probably I never felt so energetic I think. that is also with eating 2 times a day. Yesterday, I did salt water enema to get rid of any possible constipation and found nothing came out of in stomach except salt water. I thought every thing is good, but to day I felt very weak and felt very hungry even after 2 times eating and ate 3rd time, but still feel little weak. Lot water went out. So started taking more salt. probably salt water enema created some deficiency , I guess. Did any body observed this ?. Any suggestions. I was talking digestive enzymes, potassium, milk thistle before each meal for lever.

 

[Renaissance]

It seems to have taken my body a little time to get into ketosis but I can say pretty surely that I'm there. The past few weeks I've had very minimal carbs - none this week, a sweet potato last week and an onion a week before. The weeks before the only carbs I had were from herbs and onion powder. I've also been eating a ton of fat, maybe more than I should since my bowls are usually very very loose. I was experiencing consistent ups and downs in terms of tiredness and sleepiness up until three days ago when I increased my sodium intake (1/2 teaspoon with a glass of water) each morning, along with 100 mg of potassium.

Well, now for the past three days I feel like I'm running on rocket fuel - all day long. Interestingly, I can feel momentum build as I expend energy throughout the day. It's also a focused energy that feels like it needs to be put to use. And by the end of the day, I feel like I have to make a concerted effort to slow myself down. It feels incredible. I don't know that it'll last and maybe it'll even out, but I'd still be thankful for that. I'm so thankful for this information and this group.

After years and years of constant fatigue, this is nothing short of amazing. I've always at least felt some sleepiness at some point in the day, and it was frequently intense before I started improving my diet. In my past there were times when I wouldn't be able to drive home from places after eating or drinking the wrong thing (gluten, dairy, even caffeine).

I think the primary thing resulting in this new energy is of course the diet, however, for me I think another contributing factor is I recently quit smoking. For some funny reason it would almost always result in fatigue. I don't know why but whenever I had a cigarette, I'd get tired immediately afterwards. If I wasn't doing anything I would end up asleep. The only times it didn't make me tired was when I'm really engaged in good conversations. I suspected that I might be the non-smoking profile type about a year ago, but never really went through with quitting. While it was a little difficult for the first three days, it didn't feel impossible so it's likely that tobacco just wasn't right for me. Interestingly my sleep at night improved..overnight. don't mind the pun :D Getting up in the morning always felt impossible and I'd never feel fully rested; sleeping in complete darkness did help a lot, but still I wouldn't feel completely rested when I would try to get up. Now for the past couple of weeks sleep is a totally different experience.

 

[mcb]

After I started pure low carb and high fat diet , initially I had constipation which dissipated with salt water and vitamin C. but the stool amount is so small , I thought I still have constipation. In the vegetarian Myth , author says there is little wastage in the meat diet. But I am some what surprised at how small the stool was. Did any body observed this ?. I felt very energetic during this time, though.

You are eliminating bulk (indigestible plant material) so the stool volume may go down. Fiber Menace also talks about that -- when you eat meat there isn't much that isn't digested, or shouldn't be. If the volume goes way down then it may be backing up. I don't worry about it too much as long as it remains soft.

Chronic malnutrition is a major issue for me during my childhood and adult years and later years on to carb diet. so I probably I never felt so energetic I think. that is also with eating 2 times a day. Yesterday, I did salt water enema to get rid of any possible constipation and found nothing came out of in stomach except salt water. I thought every thing is good, but to day I felt very weak and felt very hungry even after 2 times eating and ate 3rd time, but still feel little weak. Lot water went out. So started taking more salt. probably salt water enema created some deficiency , I guess. Did any body observed this ?. Any suggestions. I was talking digestive enzymes, potassium, milk thistle before each meal for lever.

I am not quite following you. It's the words "came out of in stomach" that worry me. You aren't throwing up, are you?

 

[Gaby]

Chronic malnutrition is a major issue for me during my childhood and adult years and later years on to carb diet. so I probably I never felt so energetic I think. that is also with eating 2 times a day. Yesterday, I did salt water enema to get rid of any possible constipation and found nothing came out of in stomach except salt water. I thought every thing is good, but to day I felt very weak and felt very hungry even after 2 times eating and ate 3rd time, but still feel little weak. Lot water went out. So started taking more salt. probably salt water enema created some deficiency , I guess. Did any body observed this ?. Any suggestions. I was talking digestive enzymes, potassium, milk thistle before each meal for lever.

Depending on your former lifestyle, you'll have constipation for a few days, although some take much longer to normalize their bowel movements after a liftetime of fiber, carbs, etc. Lutz says that some people take months, especially the elderly.

Before trying an enema, make sure you tried first magnesium and vitamin C, leaving the enemas as a last measure. They both help with bowel movements and with detox. Vitamin C also supports the adrenals and gives you more energy.

From The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living, a tip on how to have more salt:

Ridding your body of this excess salt and water is a good thing, but only up to a point. After that, if you don't replace some of the ongoing sodium excretion, the associated water loss can compromise your circulation. The end result is lightheadedness when you stand up quickly or fatigue if you exercise enough to get 'warmed up'. Other common side effects of carbohydrate restriction that go away with a pinch of added salt include headache and constipation; and over the long term it also helps the body maintain its muscles. The best solution is to include 1 or 2 cups of bouillon or broth in your daily sched¬ule. This adds only 1-2 grams of sodium to your daily intake, and your keto¬adapted metabolism insures that you pass it right on through within a matter of hours (allaying any fears you might have of salt buildup in your system).

This rapid clearance also means that on days that you exercise, take one dose of broth or bouillon within the hour before you start

.

 

[Jefferson]

Well, now for the past three days I feel like I'm running on rocket fuel - all day long. Interestingly, I can feel momentum build as I expend energy throughout the day. It's also a focused energy that feels like it needs to be put to use. And by the end of the day, I feel like I have to make a concerted effort to slow myself down. It feels incredible. I don't know that it'll last and maybe it'll even out, but I'd still be thankful for that. I'm so thankful for this information and this group.

Great to hear Shane!

I had that kind of a similar experience yesterday. I was up 6:50AM after about a 6 hour sleep (I tend to stay up longer in the summers), and although not very energetic when I got up, I could not sleep anymore as I didn't feel tired. After a bacon and egg breakfast with fat, and reasonable amount of fat and ground pork in day, I felt the energy momentum build like you say, and I went strong all the way until I did EE around 11PM, and after that I felt energized to start a thread!

There was no low time or mid-afternoon-nap feeling at all, just an increasing level of energy throughout the day.

And overall since eating this way I have been clear-minded and have had more energy than before on the high carb diet.


Jefferson

 

[Ollie]

Depending on your former lifestyle, you'll have constipation for a few days, although some take much longer to normalize their bowel movements after a liftetime of fiber, carbs, etc. Lutz says that some people take months, especially the elderly.

I can relate to that, my stool pattern has been very up and down, irrespective of playing with magnesium levels at night.

 

[SeekinTruth]

I'm also experiencing increased energy while sleeping quite a bit less. Sometimes only 5 hours or so. And I don't need to nap either.

Another strange thing is that my blood pressure has been quite low and I still have lots of energy. It's been in the range of 95-105/60-70 for the last month or more. Before the low carb, high fat diet, it's always been 115-120/75-80. I've always been under the impression that when blood pressure drops below 110/70 or so you feel very low energy/fatigued. But apparently that's NOT the case.

 

[seek10]

Chronic malnutrition is a major issue for me during my childhood and adult years and later years on to carb diet. so I probably I never felt so energetic I think. that is also with eating 2 times a day. Yesterday, I did salt water enema to get rid of any possible constipation and found nothing came out of in stomach except salt water. I thought every thing is good, but to day I felt very weak and felt very hungry even after 2 times eating and ate 3rd time, but still feel little weak. Lot water went out. So started taking more salt. probably salt water enema created some deficiency , I guess. Did any body observed this ?. Any suggestions. I was talking digestive enzymes, potassium, milk thistle before each meal for lever.

I am not quite following you. It's the words "came out of in stomach" that worry me. You aren't throwing up, are you?

What I meant to say is bowl movement after the salt water enema excreted only salt water. so nothing to worry.

Before trying an enema, make sure you tried first magnesium and vitamin C, leaving the enemas as a last measure. They both help with bowel movements and with detox. Vitamin C also supports the adrenals and gives you more energy.

When I took vitamin C, i got bowl movement with in half an hour. Due to small quantity excreted , I got this doubt.

Couple of days back, I got lot of urine and then I did salt water enema then weekness next day . Now it seems better with adding more salt. Also I was doing little physical exercises to get some help with anxiety issues. so I may be consuming little more energy too. I will need to add broth.

Thank you psyche and Megan

 

[Gaby]

When I took vitamin C, i got bowl movement with in half an hour. Due to small quantity excreted , I got this doubt.

Well, now you know you don't need to have huge stools. :) Microbes and detritus constitute the most of it, so all in all, they will be small enough. I think you'll be fine, perhaps vitamin C and magnesium any now and then. Reserve the water enemas just for emergencies. I don't take magnesium everyday anymore. Who would have thought that my bowels would adjust to a diet like this when I always tended to be constipated. All this time, it was the carb's fault.

 

[Bluestar]

Ahhh, have finished this thread, Vegetarian Myth thread and book. Will be reading The Art & Science book soon (*thank you Laura for the pdf file. Will do my best to purchase the book and when done will write a review on amazon)

So for the last two years or so have cut wheat, glutin, sugar and dairy out of my daily diet with a few slip ups. Restarted each time. For the most part cut all processed foods out years ago though there where times when I felt no choice but to eat them, it was seldom. So in beginning of June I started to focus on reducing the carbs I ate.

This caused some problems because after reading these two threads I realized that my diet was mostly carbs in the form of veggies, brown rice, buckwheat and quinoa. After reading up on quinoa and buckwheat these are no longer being eatten. So what to eat? Being a reformed vegetarian (started with a burger 17 years ago) for the last 17 years I did not include much animal meats in my diet. Small portions of mostly lean meats (burgers, sirloin) or chicken/turkey and some fish. Though I am not much into the avian meats. I was struggling with this dilemma of what meat to eat. Being an AB blood type, red meat though I love the flavor seems to give me indigestion. So been eating pork, lamb and salmon and occasionally red meat in the form of stews or chopped steaks. Though I still have that rock in my stomach feeling. Was down to about 75g of carbs. Started digestive enzymes and this helps some what. Fatigue and that heavy I do not what to get out of bed feeling is almost daily. Then I purchased Betaine HCL and this helps immensely. Could not find ox bile in the two shops where vitamins are available for purchase. As soon as I can afford to, I will look for ox bile on line.

With suggested adding more fats I use coconut oil poured on veggies and/or organic butter with salt. Realizing I have heavy programming regarding eatting animal fat and the consistency of it, it is hard to eat for me. I do manage to eat some like on bacon, though on whole meats I find myself cutting most of it away. Then I force myself to eat small tiny bites of some. So I am starting to use ground meats where the fat is in there yet chewable for me in this transition. Or I cook it in a stew or broth for hours until the fat melts and easy to eat. Then I drink the broth. oy!

There are two questions that I have if I may ask, 1- any AB blood type folks having issues with beef and if so any recommendations? And 2- when do people take their vitamins? I found today that by not taking the vitamins with breakfast I did not have that rock feeling in my stomach. Took them about two hours later with some bacon and digestive enzymes. At first the rock was there but since has dissipated. I do not take magnesium with food. Usually before bed. Take vit c through the day without food, so was just wondering if anyone has any insight about these issues.

Figuring that my body is just not used to so much animal meat. Butter has always been a staple in my kitchen as is olive oil, coconut oil and grapeseed oil (for frying stuff). It is kind of interesting because when I used to just eat brown rice pasta, butter and maybe a veg mixed in I did not have any digestive issues nor much fatigue. So this transition I think will take a while for me.

Thank you all for being so thorough with your experiences. It is a huge service to me and I trust that I can be of service back at you.

 

[Gaby]

There are two questions that I have if I may ask, 1- any AB blood type folks having issues with beef and if so any recommendations? And 2- when do people take their vitamins? I found today that by not taking the vitamins with breakfast I did not have that rock feeling in my stomach. Took them about two hours later with some bacon and digestive enzymes. At first the rock was there but since has dissipated. I do not take magnesium with food. Usually before bed. Take vit c through the day without food, so was just wondering if anyone has any insight about these issues.

Figuring that my body is just not used to so much animal meat. Butter has always been a staple in my kitchen as is olive oil, coconut oil and grapeseed oil (for frying stuff). It is kind of interesting because when I used to just eat brown rice pasta, butter and maybe a veg mixed in I did not have any digestive issues nor much fatigue. So this transition I think will take a while for me.

Thank you all for being so thorough with your experiences. It is a huge service to me and I trust that I can be of service back at you.

Don't worry about the blood type thing, if you find you can't tolerate certain meats, you can try using apple cider vinegar to see if it helps, or betain hydrochloride to support meat digestion. Concentrate on fatty meats though and see how it goes.

Most folks find that they can come off from a bunch of supplements on this diet because it really promotes the absorption of all nutrients. Fat is a key to this process. Maybe you don't need your vitamins. Perhaps you can save them for special occasions. But you might need some supplementation to help the transition into this diet. Most of us have had relief with digestive enzymes, oxbile, milk thistle (liver support). You'll probably need certain supplements like potassium, magnesium, L-carnitine and Himalayan salts to help with the muscle cramps and make up for the loss of water and minerals. Some people loose a lot of water at the beginning, so make sure you drink enough in order to have a pale yellow urine.

I've noticed that those who come off from supplements find that they need to take only magnesium (occasionally) and vitamin C. Never take magnesium with meals as it will alkalize your stomach and you need the acid to digest the meat. Vitamin C you can take after meals or when you feel you need it.

 

[Alana]

There are two questions that I have if I may ask, 1- any AB blood type folks having issues with beef and if so any recommendations?

I am not AB blood type, so I can have beef, but if you can still eat pork and lamb, then i don't see any reason to force yourself to eat beef. Pork and lamb are more fatty meats than beef anyway, and I personally find them more tasty. I don't know how you feel about eating animal organs, but they are excellent sources of fat and nutrients and true delicacies in my book ;) I know that organ meat produces in people the same resistance as eating fats does, my partner is like that, but he promised to try it out next time we cook it. It might be one of those things that "grows on you". Also, whenever my partner tries to eat fat, he ads lean meat and the piece of fat together on his fork, and he finds it easy to eat it like this.

And 2- when do people take their vitamins? I found today that by not taking the vitamins with breakfast I did not have that rock feeling in my stomach. Took them about two hours later with some bacon and digestive enzymes. At first the rock was there but since has dissipated. I do not take magnesium with food. Usually before bed. Take vit c through the day without food, so was just wondering if anyone has any insight about these issues.

I take my magnesium as soon as I wake up - though is better to do it your way, at night, for the relaxation effects - digestive enzymes, ox-bile and HCL with all my meals, and the rest of my supplements right after breakfast. I have reduced the supplements I am taking just fish oils, potassium, sometimes spirulina, vitamin D3 and E, vitamin C, multivitamin and B-complex 2x a week each, coenzyme Q10, evening primrose oil, and a small amount of lithium for my mental health So I am wondering whether it is the supplements you take that make you get the "rock" feeling in your chest, not so much when you take them?

Figuring that my body is just not used to so much animal meat. Butter has always been a staple in my kitchen as is olive oil, coconut oil and grape-seed oil (for frying stuff). It is kind of interesting because when I used to just eat brown rice pasta, butter and maybe a veg mixed in I did not have any digestive issues nor much fatigue. So this transition I think will take a while for me.

Yes, I think that patience is required from all of us here during this transition, and if you had a lifelong habit of not eating much meat, your liver and digestive system will take a while to adjust. Following the advice given here with what supplements to take, water intake, sodium addition etc, it really helped me personally. I have a little fatigue here and there, and some bowel movement dysfunctions, but overall transitioning very smoothly to the almost no carbs (I am pretty sure even below 15 g a day) diet for a couple of weeks now.

I consider myself lucky in that I always liked fat and organs, and bone marrow, and all those nutritious parts of the animals that Western civilization considers "ew!" In fact, I remember that as a child I only wanted to eat carrots, cucumbers and fatty meat on a bone, with all the cartilage and stuff. My mother really gave a fight to teach me to eat everything else.

As a side note, I was reading this article posted on SOTT today: How to prevent spending the last 10 years of your life in a diaper and a wheelchair, which has a podcast link in it. It's 1:10 long, and I recommend listening to it. Datis Kharrazian, DC, M.S , along with host, Chris Kresser, discuss the circular interaction between brain and gut: yes, gut health affects the health of the brain too, but the same is true where brain malfunction affects the health of the gut. From the page:

In this episode we discuss the gut-brain axis: the relationship between digestive health and cognitive function, memory, depression, anxiety and other mental and behavioral health issues. We cover:

* the basic physiology involved
* how inflammation in the gut affects the brain
* how decreased brain activity compromises gut function
* how to recognize the signs and symptoms of gut-brain axis dysfunction
* studies demonstrating gut-brain dysfunction and its effects on health
* dietary and lifestyle modifications to improve gut-brain function.

I think the gut-brain axis is one of the most important and least recognized factors in human health. If you follow a good diet (Paleo, Primal, Perfect Health Diet, etc.) and you’re still experiencing gut symptoms, it’s likely you have a gut-brain axis issue.

 

[anart]

Don't worry about the blood type thing, if you find you can't tolerate certain meats, you can try using apple cider vinegar to see if it helps, or betain hydrochloride to support meat digestion. Concentrate on fatty meats though and see how it goes.

Yep, I am type AB (though, as Psyche said, don't really worry about the blood type thing) and I am almost 100% pork powered at this point. Bacon, pork chops and pork sausages are my staples. I haven't wandered into beef territory yet simply because I'm loving the pork so much. I did try some buffalo, but it was very lean, so I figure what's the point, without the fat? I was also a vegetarian for around 24 years, so the digestive enzymes have been key. I can't do the HCL, though - it burns my stomach, so it seems to be a bit of overkill. Sometimes I have to chew the fat up quickly, because of the texture, but I'm really getting to like the flavor of it. My energy levels have skyrocketed and I cannot believe I spent 24 years of my life slowly killing myself, thinking I was doing the right thing!

 

[Ollie]

There are two questions that I have if I may ask, 1- any AB blood type folks having issues with beef and if so any recommendations?

I'm Blood Group A, and find that I'm sensitive to beef in any form, ditto pork other than cured pork (bacon, ham, salami, etc), also to chicken legs, and to organ meats (still a few more to test regarding lamb (kidney and heart)). Lamb is fine and fatty, and I'm OK with turkey meat. Fat is fine, including beef dripping, and I take Ox Bile, Betane HCl and digestive enzymes with my meals, and Milk Thistle and a whole host more supplements due to age and prostate. Still a way off switching to fat burning though.

 

[Franco]

Just a bit of feedback for the forum.

I spent around a month eating only meat and drinking water.

After about 3 weeks or so my cravings seemed to go away.

At the end of the month I weighed myself at the gym at I was 86.5kg.

In the 5th week on the diet I weighed myself again and I now weigh 84.5kg

I have weighed myself every day since that to double check and that is my new weight.

This actually suprised me as I generally go to gym twice a week but not always, though I do weigh myself every time I go as a habit.

I'm going to definitely say that my body changed into fat burning mode after 4 weeks on this diet, 2kgs in 10 days or so is a lot to lose from my past experience and results.

Thought I would just put that out there as data regarding burning fat.

Nothing else changed in my life except the diet.