"Life Without Bread"

[Gertrudes]

I think that this is a key: energy expenditure. Just as Castaneda's Don Juan speaks of impeccability as the conservation of energy for awareness, the same may be true for our bodies: get energy as efficiently as possible, and let the body be a good vehicle for awareness.

Interesting that you put it that way Laura, it follows the same principle of some extremely effective forms of physical movement and/or exercise. Proper use of energy so as to use the least possible, and with maximum efficiency. When you manage to work that way, you feel invigorated rather then tired afterwords. Indeed, it seems to be exactly what we are trying to get to with food.

ADDED: Many thanks for the videos Psyche and Pashalis. I have to admit that reminding myself of how big the lie on food is made me boil inside, I'm fuming actually. The very lives of our loved ones are being slowly destroyed and our hands and feet are tied because in many cases the lie is just too ingrained to even suggest anything else. Not to mention the lives of everyone else in the planet, it's like watching mass suicide, only everyone is oblivious to it. It's sick
Apologies for the rant, but I thought it was better to get it out.

 

[Steve M.]

This info is really interesting. Hope I'm not going too far off subject but do coffee enema's have any affect in terms of Ketones vs. Carb's? I could be imagining things but the emotional weight lifting (reduction of emotional friction) made me wonder if it were temporarily having such an affect - potentially. As if the body would flush out or reduce the amount of carbs and allow the ketones to start flowing as they naturally would until the body reverts back to using what's at hand (in the stomach being digested).

I had the most sure idea that Laura (you) had posted something about animal fats and caffeine recently, but searched the forum and found nothing. Was it something in an article maybe? I looked on SOTT's and found (from the article 'lets all light up') a link "Smoking and Caffeine May Protect Against Parkinson's Disease" but nothing near what I thought I remembered.

The memory of the caffeine statement was more "we'll stick to animal fats and caffeine" to which I thought you were referencing coffee enema's. I thought the comment was in a recent transcript with the C's but found nothing there either.

Has anyone there using this low-carb/high meat/fat diet done the enema and felt the slight euphoria from doing it, or is it that now that your functioning on ketones that the effect is nearly null? Are any of you at the chateau beyond seasonal allergies now, or noticed that they are severely dampened from the (low-carb/high meat/fat) diet change? I notice right off with the enema that my sinuses become much clearer.

 

[Harold]

Great thread... this plus what the C's have said in the recent transmition has me reevaluating my carb intake.... so thank-you. I eat gluten/wheat free bread, yeast free, allergenic bread, it is about 21grams of carbs each piece. I eat yams and onions and that is all I have in the veggie department. I eat lots of bacon, ham, and all other meats. I also have raspberry jam, which would fit into a hunter forager diet ie. berries yes? :)

 

[Gaby]

This info is really interesting. Hope I'm not going too far off subject but do coffee enema's have any affect in terms of Ketones vs. Carb's? I could be imagining things but the emotional weight lifting (reduction of emotional friction) made me wonder if it were temporarily having such an affect - potentially. As if the body would flush out or reduce the amount of carbs and allow the ketones to start flowing as they naturally would until the body reverts back to using what's at hand (in the stomach being digested).

I had the most sure idea that Laura (you) had posted something about animal fats and caffeine recently, but searched the forum and found nothing. Was it something in an article maybe? I looked on SOTT's and found (from the article 'lets all light up') a link "Smoking and Caffeine May Protect Against Parkinson's Disease" but nothing near what I thought I remembered.

The memory of the caffeine statement was more "we'll stick to animal fats and caffeine" to which I thought you were referencing coffee enema's. I thought the comment was in a recent transcript with the C's but found nothing there either.

Has anyone there using this low-carb/high meat/fat diet done the enema and felt the slight euphoria from doing it, or is it that now that your functioning on ketones that the effect is nearly null? Are any of you at the chateau beyond seasonal allergies now, or noticed that they are severely dampened from the (low-carb/high meat/fat) diet change? I notice right off with the enema that my sinuses become much clearer.

We cut out coffee from the diet, although some of us still do coffee enemas once in a long while. The coffee enema should have no bearing in your diet.

Another thing specified in the book is that from their experience, younger people adjust withing a week or two to the new diet. I mean, they have constipation initially, and then bowel movements get normalized. I seem to have adjusted within days, but I still take my magnesium and vitamin C.

Older people might need months. Still, patience and persistence are encouraged because in the long-run, there are more benefits including benefits to the digestive system as a whole.

For instance, I noticed that I don't get bloated anymore.

They recommend water enemas in the night to stimulate things while one still has constipation. But I think that with the magnesium and vitamin C, there will hardly be any need.

As for seasonal allergies, you all have to keep in mind that the culprits are usually plant based. Pollens and groups of vegetables and fruits that are part of that pollen group makes everything worse. On a mostly meat based diet, you stop having those allergenic groups, so your allergies start to clear out. I'm one who had allergies all the time and now I don't have them since I cut out gluten, dairy, and problematic veggies and fruits for me (almost all the birch family, plus onions and garlic)

There is another thread in the forum with this discussion, but FWIW, here is a relevant link and info about food groups that can be tested through the elimination diet:

(see original link to display the chart correctly)

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/fssa/concen/tipcon/orale.shtml

ORAL ALLERGY SYNDROME
Oral allergy syndrome

Oral allergy syndrome is an allergic reaction to certain proteins in fruit, vegetables and nuts.

This condition is called “oral allergy syndrome” because it usually affects the mouth and throat.

People affected with oral allergy syndrome

Oral allergy syndrome is nearly always preceded by hay fever. It also tends to occur most often in older children and adults.

It is usually associated with birch-pollen allergies but it can also affect people with allergies to the pollens of grass, ragweed (more common in North America) and mugwort (more common in Europe). These reactions can occur at any time of year but are often worse during the pollen season.

Symptoms of oral allergy syndrome

Symptoms may include

itching and burning of the lips, mouth and throat
watery itchy eyes
runny nose
sneezing

Symptoms usually develop within minutes of eating or touching the food, but occasionally occur more than an hour later.

For some people, peeling or touching the offending foods may cause a rash, itching or swelling where the food touches the skin.

More serious reactions can include hives and swelling of the mouth, pharynx and windpipe.

In rare cases, severe allergic reactions have been reported, such as

vomiting and diarrhea
bronchial asthma
generalized hives
anaphylactic shock

Reactions to fruits and vegetables associated with oral allergy syndrome

Not all reactions to fruit and vegetables are associated with oral allergy syndrome.

A variety of fruit, vegetables and their juices sometimes cause skin rashes and diarrhea, especially in young children. These include

apples
grapes
oranges
tomatoes

Strawberries occasionally cause hives.

Food involved in oral allergy syndrome

Food associated with birch, ragweed, grass and mugwort pollen are listed in the following table.

Because the allergenic proteins associated with oral allergy syndrome are usually destroyed by cooking, most reactions are caused by raw food. The main exceptions to this are celery and nuts, which may cause reactions even after being cooked.

Some plant parts, such as the skin, may be more allergenic than other parts.

The allergic characteristics of some fruit seems to decrease during storage.

Foods associated with oral allergy syndrome, which could cause anaphylactic reactions, include:

beans
celery
cumin
hazelnut
kiwi
parsley
white potato

FOOD MOST COMMONLY ASSOCIATED WITH BIRCH, RAGWEED, GRASS AND MUGWORT POLLENS Allergies to this type of Pollen May also trigger an allergic reaction to these foods
Birch Fruits: apple, apricot, cherry, kiwi, nectarine, peach, pear, plum, prune
Vegetables: anise, beans, caraway, carrot, celery, coriander, cumin, dill, fennel, green pepper, lentils, parsley, parsnips, peanut, peas, potato, tomato
Nuts: almond, hazelnut, walnut
Seeds: sunflower
Grass Fruits: kiwi, melon, orange, tomato, watermelon
Mugwort Fruits: apple, melon, watermelon
Vegetables: carrot, celery
Ragweed Fruits: banana, cantaloupe, honeydew, watermelon
Vegetables: cucumber, zucchini

Source: Zarkadas M, Scott FW, Salminen J, Ham Pong A. Common Allergenic Foods and Their Labelling in Canada - A Review. Canadian Journal Allergy & Clinical Immunology 1999; 4:118-141.

 

[Gaby]

Great thread... this plus what the C's have said in the recent transmition has me reevaluating my carb intake.... so thank-you. I eat gluten/wheat free bread, yeast free, allergenic bread, it is about 21grams of carbs each piece. I eat yams and onions and that is all I have in the veggie department. I eat lots of bacon, ham, and all other meats. I also have raspberry jam, which would fit into a hunter forager diet ie. berries yes? :)

Jams are rich in sugar... I forgot how many Bread Units they had, but I remember thinking that I rather had more blinis with xylitol on them.

FWIW, I think each buckwheat blini has around 1 bread unit.

Stevia should be fine and so is xylitol. But some low carb people actually count the grams of carbs in xylitol

 

[Nimue]

Stevia should be fine and so is xylitol. But some low carb people actually count the grams of carbs in xylitol

I thought about this, I only could imagine they count it cause on diabetic foods, sugar substitutes (xylitol) are displayed with 12 gr-1 BE , or they count it cause it is a form of sugar alcohol, and the body first utilize it for energy instead of fat ( if they make low carb only for weight lost) Only my speculation !

 

[Don Diego]

Thanks dugdeep for your precious explanation,it's much clear now;anyway I'll have to get the book also! :)

 

[Gertrudes]

Although the following short excerpt is from a different book, I think that it fits the current discussion on carb versus fat and protein metabolism. It is from T. S. Wiley's book: Sex, Lies and Menopause.

Our hearts, men, women's, and all other living things with a cardiovascular system, evolved seasonally to survive - that is, in the summer our hearts are meant to run on glucose or blood sugar for energy, and in the winter, when all of the summer's carbohydrates are gone, our hearts would switch to free fatty acids for fuel.
Four or five months out of the year - in the summer - blood sugar and insulin are high as a result of the availability of carbohydrates in warmer weather and, simultaneously, insulin and cortisol are high from the more hours of light.
In Winter, when the plants are dormant and he animals have a layer of fat (just like we would from summer grazing), we'd eat the animals along with shellfish, tree bark, and any roots we could still dig until the ground was frozen or solid.
Our hearts have learned to run on that menu for millennia.

Throughout the book the author explains how we have, in the past century, began to overload ourselves with carbs (and artificial light) which has, in turn, sped up the internal ageing process and led to a multitude of diseases such as diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and so on. She explains how carbohydrate consumption, mainly in the form of fruits (interesting that she doesn't even mention grains) was consumed during the Summer, when the fruit is actually ripe. For the rest of the year it was pretty much all meat and fat.
Nowadays, however, she mentions that we are living in a permanent Summer, living off of carbohydrates as well as extending winter days with the use of electricity, but the latter is another topic.

Added: Apologies that I pressed post by mistake twice (!) before having finished my post, this is now the full post I intended to write.

 

[dugdeep]

Although the following short excerpt is from a different book, I think that it fits the current discussion on carb versus fat and protein metabolism. It is from T. S. Wiley's book: Sex, Lies and Menopause.

Our hearts, men, women's, and all other living things with a cardiovascular system, evolved seasonally to survive - that is, in the summer our hearts are meant to run on glucose or blood sugar for energy, and in the winter, when all of the summer's carbohydrates are gone, our hearts would switch to free fatty acids for fuel.
Four or five months out of the year - in the summer - blood sugar and insulin are high as a result of the availability of carbohydrates in warmer weather and, simultaneously, insulin and cortisol are high from the more hours of light.
In Winter, when the plants are dormant and he animals have a layer of fat (just like we would from summer grazing), we'd eat the animals along with shellfish, tree bark, and any roots we could still dig until the ground was frozen or solid.
Our hearts have learned to run on that menu for millennia.

Throughout the book the author explains how we have, in the past century, began to overload ourselves with carbs (and artificial light) which has, in turn, sped up the internal ageing process and led to a multitude of diseases such as diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and so on. She explains how carbohydrate consumption, mainly in the form of fruits (interesting that she doesn't even mention grains) was consumed during the Summer, when the fruit is actually ripe. For the rest of the year it was pretty much all meat and fat.
Nowadays, however, she mentions that we are living in a permanent Summer, living off of carbohydrates as well as extending winter days with the use of electricity, but the latter is another topic.

Added: Apologies that I pressed post by mistake twice (!) before having finished my post, this is now the full post I intended to write.

Yes, I've been thinking about this too, Gertrudes. I was wondering if people were going to go into eating more fruit come summer time. It's quite likely our paleo ancestors would have indulged in fruit when it was available (it is quite delicious). We'd probably have to take it easy on the fruit, since today's fruit has been bred to be much higher in sugar than ancient varieties.

I was particularly thinking this way since I've been coming across references in my research to problems people encounter staying in ketosis for extended periods of time (it seems ketogenic diets can wear on the adrenals quite a bit and lead to low thyroid symptoms after remaining in ketosis for too long). I haven't pulled all this research together yet, and I'll post it here when I do, but I'm wondering if the human body was meant to be cyclical in it's use of ketone bodies and glucose as fuels, as Wiley suggests.

 

[Steve M.]

Dugdeep wrote:

I was particularly thinking this way since I've been coming across references in my research to problems people encounter staying in ketosis for extended periods of time (it seems ketogenic diets can wear on the adrenals quite a bit and lead to low thyroid symptoms after remaining in ketosis for too long). I haven't pulled all this research together yet, and I'll post it here when I do, but I'm wondering if the human body was meant to be cyclical in it's use of ketone bodies and glucose as fuels, as Wiley suggests.

So there is a potential that it was cyclic? For example Ketosis state during fall/winter (when the animals were more grown) and more gluconic during the spring summer months (when the animals were mating and there were more fruits)?

I'd certainly like to hear more about any discoveries. The idea would allow the animals to not be hunted into extinction and allow their numbers to strengthen if it were more semi-seasonal. It's an interesting thought, if I'm understanding you correctly.

 

[3DStudent]

I was particularly thinking this way since I've been coming across references in my research to problems people encounter staying in ketosis for extended periods of time (it seems ketogenic diets can wear on the adrenals quite a bit and lead to low thyroid symptoms after remaining in ketosis for too long).

Yeah, while now I am counting carbs, before I actually counted protein. I heard that too much protein can damage your kidneys at twice the grams as your weight in kg. So like, if you weighed 50 kg, then 100 grams protein would be the limit.

Either way, I don't think I mind either metabolism. Carbs are yummy and so is meat. :P

 

[Gertrudes]

I haven't pulled all this research together yet, and I'll post it here when I do, but I'm wondering if the human body was meant to be cyclical in it's use of ketone bodies and glucose as fuels, as Wiley suggests.

In her book Wiley does make a compelling case for it to have been so. Thinking of it it seems to makes sense, life expresses itself cyclically as in the example of seasons, woman's menses, lunar phases and so on. Interestingly, I have for many years noticed that as soon as Summer arrives, my need for fruit skyrockets. In the winter, I am much more satisfied with meat.
I have also noticed that despite how soon or late I go to bed, in the Summer I always tend to sleep less, sleep patterns also being cyclical is another possibility/reality? comprehensively explained in Wileys's book.

 

[Laura]

I haven't pulled all this research together yet, and I'll post it here when I do, but I'm wondering if the human body was meant to be cyclical in it's use of ketone bodies and glucose as fuels, as Wiley suggests.

In her book Wiley does make a compelling case for it to have been so. Thinking of it it seems to makes sense, life expresses itself cyclically as in the example of seasons, woman's menses, lunar phases and so on. Interestingly, I have for many years noticed that as soon as Summer arrives, my need for fruit skyrockets. In the winter, I am much more satisfied with meat.
I have also noticed that despite how soon or late I go to bed, in the Summer I always tend to sleep less, sleep patterns also being cyclical is another possibility/reality? comprehensively explained in Wileys's book.

Well, clearly, what carbs were available during our evolution bear absolutely no resemblance to what is available today. Lutz's book is way more coherent on the topic of insulin.

 

[Gertrudes]

Well, clearly, what carbs were available during our evolution bear absolutely no resemblance to what is available today.

Very true.
Just the tought of our ancestors eating something anywhere near the stuff that is eaten today makes me chuckle and at the same time want to cry.

Lutz's book is way more coherent on the topic of insulin.

I'm bumping it up on my priority list.

 

[monksgirl]

How does one measure out grams of carbs as they go through the day anyhow? Carry around a little food scale?? :P

I have a small pocket size paperback "Carbohydrate Gram Counter" that I have had for many years; it was becoming so dog-eared that I found another
copy in better shape on e-Bay. Everything is arranged alphabetically including brand name products.