"Life Without Bread"

I would like to once again post a warning to everyone to NOT undertake dietary changes without being fully informed. That means, read the books, read ALL the threads on the topics concerned, and have a full awareness of your own body's state and if necessary, consult your doctor! If you are older and in poor health, even if a change of diet would benefit you, you may have to transition very slowly and in some cases, damage cannot be reversed.
 
Aragorn said:
The day before yesterday, day 18 on the low carb diet, was pretty difficult. I woke up with a minor headache which during the day developed into a big, nasty throbbing in the back of my head and neck. The usual salt, magnesium etc. didn't work. I tried a session of pipe breathing, which didn't help either. However, during the breathing I realized that probably some 'dead stuff', like candida and bacteria had accumulated in the colon. ...

So, as Laura pointed out in an earlier post, I think that getting the 'old stuff' out is very important too.

Interestingly, I'm on day 18 (20g carbs and below) today and have a very, very mild headache, experiencing a feeling of hypertension, and this morning had aches to the back of my legs. EE has eased things somewhat.
 
Keit said:
...Well, after doing a search on the web, it looks like poor circulation due to dehydration (loss of sodium), not enough magnesium and potassium are the main contributors to this problem. Another cause is reduction of thyroid glandular activity (hypothyroidism). But unless you are aware that you have a thyroid problem, it is probably due to electrolytes imbalance. Another factor is not enough movement...

My thyroid tests have always been "OK" so no doctor has ever said anything about it. I either have or have recently had every symptom of hypothyroid, but I have no open-minded doctor to work with. It could explain a lot. But then what to do about it? I am starting to research that.
 
RedFox said:
Aragorn said:
Yeah, I know coffee is bad, and I've been without it for over two years. But if you don't mind me asking, what is it in the coffee that you mean spikes the insulin levels? Maybe I'm missing something , but according to my sources the Finnish coffee I drank contains 0,3g of carbs/100g - so if the carbs/sugar is the concern, that isn't much. Of course there are other negative health aspects with coffee, but just thinking about the carbs here...and I was taking it black, no sugar or milk ;)

Caffeine Causes Glucose Level Spikes In Type 2 Diabetics
_http://www.articlesbase.com/diseases-and-conditions-articles/caffeine-causes-glucose-level-spikes-in-type-2-diabetics-397310.html

The first thing I encountered when I went to this link was "Pretty Philippine Women Looking for Western Husbands Online Feel Free to Start Dating." That seemed a little odd, but looking further, the website seems to be a place where people write articles for free and have them published where (hopefully) more people will see them. It isn't quite the standard "content farm," where authors are paid for short, low-quality articles, but you do have to look the articles over very carefully.

Here is the abstract for the actual Duke study, which was mentioned in the article but not cited directly (the full paper can be read here):

http://www.duke.edu/~jdlane/DIABWWW.HTM said:
Lane, J.D., Barkauskas, C.E., Surwit, R.S., and Feinglos, M.N. Caffeine impairs glucose metabolism in type 2 diabetes. DIABETES CARE, 2004, 27: 2047-2048.

Objective: Caffeine is a widely consumed central stimulant that has recently been shown to decrease insulin sensitivity in healthy, non-diabetic individuals. We hypothesized that caffeine disrupts glucose metabolism in patients with type 2 diabetes and causes both hyperinsulemia and hyperglycemia.

Research Design and Methods. A placebo-controlled cross-over study tested the effects of a moderate dose of caffeine (375 mg) on fasting glucose and insulin and on glucose and insulin responses to a mixed carbohydrate meal in 14 adult men and women diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. Responses to the meal were calculated as incremental areas under the 2-hour glucose and insulin time-curves.
Results. Caffeine had no effect on fasting levels of glucose or insulin, but significantly increased the glucose (21% larger) and insulin (48% larger) responses to the mixed meal.

Conclusions. Caffeine can cause exaggerated hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia in patients with type 2 diabetes, when given prior to a meal. The increase in post-prandial glucose could impede clinical efforts at glucose control in patients who consume caffeine on a daily basis. Long term effects on diabetes and its complications remain to be determined.

The effect was observed after a "mixed meal," consisting of a bottle of "Boost" containing 75 g. of carbohydrate. The caffeine was administered in a capsule, not as coffee. If you want to know what happens if you are not a type II diabetic and you drink coffee after a low or no carb meal, I guess you will have to do the experiment yourself. This report won't tell you.

I seem to recall that the issues with coffee came up in connection with candida overgrowth. There were reports of the coffee feeding the yeast. I would have to say that the information I have been reading about coffee recently is conflicting at best. I will sometimes have some (2 large cups) when I am experiencing major fatigue in the morning on work days, rather than call in sick. It relieves the fatigue but has no other effects that I have been able to observe. I don't experience withdrawal symptoms, even if I do this for a prolonged period of time (as I have done in the past), but I normally try to minimize the amount that I drink. I don't drink it throughout the day, although when I did that in the past I didn't experience withdrawal either when I stopped. That could indicate a difference in how my body in particular handles coffee.

I have had a small amount of coffee since I have started eating low-carb, either black or with cocoanut milk (0 carbs). Apart from relieving the morning fatigue, it had no other effects. I use organic coffee and cocoanut milk, and grind the beans when I brew the coffee. The fatigue, on the other hand, can sometimes render me largely useless for much of the day. I realize that there is something wrong that I need to address -- adrenal and/or thyroid issues, perhaps -- but while I am trying to find it I still need to be able to work.
 
I think that it is possible that coffee negatively affects only those people who have the genetic variation of energy partitioning that tends to store extra energy rather than burn it. That is, people who are very carb sensitive. I'm not even sure it is the caffeine because tea does not affect me the same way at all. Also, decaffeinated coffee affects me just as negatively as regular. The effect is pretty much the same as drinking a bottle of syrup - I've gone into insulin shock from drinking a cup of coffee.
 
It's funny you should be discussing this as I have been wondering about the decaf issue for the last few days. and having read plenty of conflicting information about coffee. Of course I have wanted coffee to be good for me but I'm trying to stay objective! Yesterday I had a cup of decaf coffee between meals and didn't notice any effects. A few days ago I tried a cup of regular coffee and I noticed the usual "coffee kick"- I wonder has this got more to do with it? With yesterday's coffee, as I said I didn't notice any effect but I also thought "I can do without this" whereas with the coffee the other day, I was much more aware than ever of the rush and I liked it a lot more! I am slightly underweight and, (I suspect) very sensitive to carbs but I still have to figure out the whole carbs counting procedure and find out my carb limit. Right now, I'm staying below my limit by just trying to eat really low amounts of carbs, e.g yesterday I had half a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee, and maybe two cups of lettuce with dinner.
Do you think Laura it may be that tea has a "slower release" type of effect or something like that? I've found when quitting coffee that a cup of assam tea in the morning has an uplifting effect but it's nowhere near as forceful as coffee. Maybe it's similar to the way carb intake should be spread out throughout the day and coffee is just "too much too soon"?
 
More (bad) advice from Dr Hyman... (I am not sure if this is a new article but I am reading him in a clearer light, and he just sent it out.)

_http://drhyman.com/how-to-optimize-your-nutrition-for-vibrant-health-587/

CONFUSED ABOUT WHAT “good nutrition” is? You shouldn’t be — we know what works and what doesn’t. In a moment, I will share 5 simple tips to help you optimize your nutrition and achieve vibrant health, but first let me clear up a few misconceptions.

Despite the “conflicting” scientific studies and media reports designed to confound rather than enlighten, there is no confusion about what constitutes good nutrition. If we were to gather the world’s top nutrition scientists and experts — free from food industry influence — there would be very little debate about the essential properties of good nutrition.

Unfortunately, most doctors are nutritionally illiterate. Worse, they don’t know how to use the most powerful medicine available to them: food.

...

What I am about to share might be shocking …

Carbohydrates are the single most important food for long-term health and well-being.

This may be surprising given the low-carb movement, and “carbophobia” in our country, but it’s true.

Of course, I don’t mean the over-processed, refined, sugary, white foods we commonly think of as carbohydrates, such as donuts, bread, bagels, muffins, colas, juices, and most junk food.

And I don’t mean the cheap, super-sweet, government-subsidized high-fructose corn syrup that is driving our epidemic of obesity and chronic disease.

The carbohydrates I am talking about are the real, whole, nourishing plant foods that the human species has thrived on since from the dawn of evolution.

Most of the food consumed by humans since the beginning of time has been carbohydrates. In fact, plant foods are comprised mostly of carbohydrates: vegetables, fruits, beans, whole grains, nuts, seeds, herbs, and spices.

These foods contain slowly released sources of sugar that prevent surges of blood sugar and insulin. Too much insulin causes heart disease, diabetes, cancer, depression, and even dementia...

Confused yet?

I still use Dr. Hyman and others as a source of information, but he can be just as confusing as the other sources. In this case he is simply wrong. If he had said "since the dawn of agriculture" then I would give him part credit, but he did not. There were no humans around "at the dawn of evolution." Our evolutionary predecessors may well have eaten plants before they evolved to our present human form, but not the plants we eat now. (The meat we eat is different too.)

Selling expensive supplements as a hedge against poor health seems to a big part of this message. You aren't led directly to his store within the text of the article, but the ad for it appears at the top of the page. "Daily Wellness Vitamins. " $117.50 (marked down from $130.75) for women, $94.00 (marked down from $104.80) for men.
 
I read it today and my immediate thought was that his writing style reads like he as the all-knowing doctor talking to dumb people who can't think for themselves. He doesn't even care to verify his statements with evidence.

CONFUSED ABOUT WHAT “good nutrition” is? You shouldn’t be — we know what works and what doesn’t.

Confused about all those different nutritional concepts and opinions? Don't be afraid about the never-ending discussions, I will tell you what to believe so you don't have to think about it.

Despite the “conflicting” scientific studies and media reports designed to confound rather than enlighten, there is no confusion about what constitutes good nutrition. If we were to gather the world’s top nutrition scientists and experts — free from food industry influence — there would be very little debate about the essential properties of good nutrition.

Maybe there would be little debate about whole foods, but the question for scientists is what whole foods to eat.

Of course, he is right with all about what he is saying about junk food, corn syrup, trans-fats, etc., but that is nothing knew. He repeats the same arguments again and again since he first published his books.

What I am about to share might be shocking …

Indeed shocking given the fact that he just states something without supplying the reader with any scientific evidence.

Carbohydrates are the single most important food for long-term health and well-being.

Oh right. It must be imagination that people need essential amino acids from protein, fat soluble vitamins, choline and cholesterol for brain development. Also that plant sources of vitamins and minerals are less biologically active, a plant based diet leads to deficiencies in many important nutrients like iron, b12, zinc, vitamin a, k and others. Glad that our species survived until today, without having the "single most important food" available during thousands and probably hundreds of thousand years living mostly from hunted animals. Surviving without any carbs is possible (what doesn't mean carbs can not be beneficial for healthy people) while living without protein and fat is virtually impossible, as fruitarians sadly show.

The carbohydrates I am talking about are the real, whole, nourishing plant foods that the human species has thrived on since from the dawn of evolution.

Does he mean domesticated fruits which it's higher sugar content and all-year availability? Or grains, bred for it's higher gluten content, loaded with phytates, lectins and other antinutrients which block mineral absorption and destroy the gut?

Most of the food consumed by humans since the beginning of time has been carbohydrates. In fact, plant foods are comprised mostly of carbohydrates: vegetables, fruits, beans, whole grains, nuts, seeds, herbs, and spices.

He has definitely no clue about our evolutionary history.

These foods contain slowly released sources of sugar that prevent surges of blood sugar and insulin.

Not if you have an impaired carbohydrate metabolism like most people today have.

Carbohydrates contain almost all the vitamins and minerals our bodies need to operate normally and optimally.

Too bad antinutrients don't want to give them away.

I think he is right with the necessity of supplements, whole foods in general, and his whole concept has a lot of value, despite the fact that it is not optimal for most people to eat like that. Nevertheless it's working to a high degree because leaving out processed foods and common allergens while detoxing is still the most important thing when healing. Anyway, his article has nothing to do with science for most parts, it is just selling a concept.

I wonder why he writes such an polemic, unscientific article, because it doesn't sound like his diet concept in the book which came near to the "paleo diet" from Cordain, with avoiding gluten, dairy and sticking mostly to meat, fish, vegetables and fruits. Did he forget his advice to be cautious whith grains and dairy because we only began consuming it with the dawn of agriculture? But then, in his articles he always has the tendency to over-simplificate - maybe to reach the masses who can't grasp complex science.


[quote author=Megan]Selling expensive supplements as a hedge against poor health seems to a big part of this message. You aren't led directly to his store within the text of the article, but the ad for it appears at the top of the page. "Daily Wellness Vitamins. " $117.50 (marked down from $130.75) for women, $94.00 (marked down from $104.80) for men.[/quote]

At least he uses best quality supplements for his patients. Anyway, his practice is so expensive that only really rich patients can use it, which is really sad because often poor people are the ones who got poisoned at work places or maybe became poor due to inabilitys to perform the job anymore and need help. I read in his comments that for some it is even impossible for afford a whole foods diet, not to speak of supplements.
 
Laura said:
I think that it is possible that coffee negatively affects only those people who have the genetic variation of energy partitioning that tends to store extra energy rather than burn it. That is, people who are very carb sensitive. I'm not even sure it is the caffeine because tea does not affect me the same way at all. Also, decaffeinated coffee affects me just as negatively as regular. The effect is pretty much the same as drinking a bottle of syrup - I've gone into insulin shock from drinking a cup of coffee.

Well, caffeine containing teas seem to give me headaches, something I didn't sense before, but do now. Perhaps, it's not the caffeine, but I don't seem to have the same effect with non-caffeine teas (ever), such as rooibos. (Never had coffee.)
 
Laura said:
I think that it is possible that coffee negatively affects only those people who have the genetic variation of energy partitioning that tends to store extra energy rather than burn it. That is, people who are very carb sensitive. I'm not even sure it is the caffeine because tea does not affect me the same way at all. Also, decaffeinated coffee affects me just as negatively as regular. The effect is pretty much the same as drinking a bottle of syrup - I've gone into insulin shock from drinking a cup of coffee.

Oddly enough, coffee knocks me out. It didn't consistently have that effect, but it did often enough. There were times when I couldn't drive home after drinking coffee, and I always drank it black.
 
I finished chapter 9 earlier and on page 153 there's a table which lists the best food sources for different minerals. I noticed that calcium would not be in big supply in the dairy free version of the diet- particularly less so for those of us who aren't eating much in the way of vegetables. I did a bit of searching and ended up at MarksDaily Apple looking at how to make bone broth. _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/cooking-with-bones/ It seems that bone broth is a good source of calcium (as well as other minerals as already discussed) and everyone should be drinking a cup or two every day!!!

Has anybody else got any ideas on calcium? I know it's been said that we should not be needing too much in the way of supplements on this diet- it reminds me of something I read a few years back- that soft drinks and sugars leach calcium from the body- so it stands to reason that a low carb diet would prevent mineral leeching.
Whilst searching, I found an article here: _http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/20/health/20real.html . This article from the "health" section of the New York Times mentions a study that concluded that it was the caffeine in soda drinks that caused increased calcium excretion (no mention of sugar) but "don't worry it's nothing that can't be offset by a healthy diet!" (yeah, plenty of cereals and hold the fat). I wonder did coca cola tee emm sponsor this experiment? Well fanta doesn't contain caffeine so it must be healthy ;)
 
My wife noticed that there's going to be a big scientific happening called Ancestral Health Symposium in Los Angeles 5th-6th of August, it's supposed to be "The Woodstock of Evolutionary Medicine" The topics of the speakers look really interesting. The event seems to be sold out, but who knows, maybe someone can still get a ticket. They are saying that they'll maybe post some video footage later on the site.

Have a look:

_http://ancestryfoundation.org/

About the Symposium

The Ancestral Health Symposium fosters collaboration among scientists, healthcare professionals and laypersons who study and communicate about health from an evolutionary perspective to develop solutions to our modern health challenges.

The symposium is presented by the Ancestral Health Society, a nonprofit organization dedicated to educating healthcare professionals and laypersons
on ancestral lifestyle dynamics.

You can find the spekers schedule as PDF here: _http://ancestryfoundation.org/Ancestral_Health_files/AHS%20Program.pdf
Also as HTML here: _http://ancestryfoundation.org/Schedule.html

The schedule is a bit problematic to copy-paste here, so I'll just mention a few that caught my eye. Among the more interesting speakers/topics IMO were the following:
-Gary Taubes, MA - University of California, Berkeley: "Sugar and cancer"

-Staffan Lindeberg, MD, PhD - University of Lund, Sweden: "Food and western disease"

-Boyd Eaton, MD - Emory University: "Ancestral Health: Past, present, and future"

-Loren Cordain, PhD - Colorado State University, Fort Collins: "Origins and evolution of western human diet"

-Pedro Bastos, MS, MA - Lund University, Sweden: "Milk, dairy and human health: An historical, evolutionary and global perspective"

-Mark Cohen, PhD - SUNY Plattsburgh: "The effects of cultural evolution on human health"

-Richard Feinman, MD: "Nutrition and metabolism"

-Mat Lalonde, PhD: "An organic chemist’s perspective on paleo"

-Nora Gedgaudas, CNS, CNT: "Primal mind: Diet and mental health"

-Andreas Eenfeldt, MD - Sweden: "Evolution of a diet revolution" [I've just finished reading his book "Matrevolutionen", I highly recommend it!]

-Sarah Fragoso and Chrissy Gower: "Everyday family paleo"

-Tom Naughton: "Bad science"

I wish I could be there! Maybe some of you are already going? In any case I hope some material will be available after the conference.
 
Don Genaro said:
I noticed that calcium would not be in big supply in the dairy free version of the diet- particularly less so for those of us who aren't eating much in the way of vegetables. (...)

Has anybody else got any ideas on calcium?

Interesting you should mention that. Recently, while eating hard-boiled eggs, my cat came over and demanded her share and she even ate some pieces of the eggshells. When I had finished eating the eggs, I felt a strange urge: to also eat the egg shells. It reminded me of this article, where it says:

Besides, regrowing your teeth is simple. You'll just need two things: comfrey root and organic eggshells. Eggshells are used because they contain 27 minerals and loads of calcium, so they contain the ideal building materials to regrow your teeth. In fact, the composition of eggshells is very similar to the composition of our teeth and bones.

So I thought, okay, egg shells contain a lot of calcium, and there's this urge from my body, and although the article talks about teeth, maybe this craving for egg shells is simply a craving for calcium. Don't laugh now, or do laugh if you please. :) But I actually did eat those egg shells and the feeling it gave me was similar to the satisfaction I feel when eating meat. Now, I observed this one a bit, but I don't have this craving every time I eat an egg, just from time to time, and honestly, if I'm anywhere close with my assumption, I'd say an organic egg shell is probably much cheaper than regularly buying a calcium supplement. :)

But then, I'll still haven't tried bone broth. That's probably much tastier. ;)
 
Interesting Enaid. A couple of years ago someone that seemed to be versed in nutrition advised me to put an egg inside a glass with freshly squeezed lemon juice and leave it overnight. In the morning the lemon acid has eroded the outer brown/pink layer of the eggshell that is now in the water, leaving a thin, easily breakable white shell.
He said that what's left in the water was highly nutritious, and the advise was to do it twice a week.
 
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